Chevrolet Cobalt

bigdaddycoats · February 2005

I have to disagree - on dry pavement, ABS will stop in a shorter distance.

alpha01 · February 2005

That actually depends. If you have good tires on your car, say, a performance brand with 5,000 miles worth of use.... Locking the brakes on dry pavement will stop you shortest. You just wont be able to steer.

~alpha

m1miata · February 2005

Not a good idea to lock brakes. Best to ease a bit before total lockup. A locked brake will NOT stop in the shortest distance. On snow, the plow effect does work, but on dry pavement you want to allow for some wheel turning. This also allows you to steer. Best to have an out where possible so you need not worry so much about stopping, but rather where you have room to drive around the car ahead. And you must maintain reasonable space between cars. ABS can work. Threshold braking works. And piss poor ABS systems can lock up unexpectedly or not work as planned. You just don't know. If you get ABS, get the best. Some earlier systems and car manufactures are noted as having poor systems. I am not going to mention a brand name - is not worth getting in a law suite over it. Do some searching on the chat rooms. There are some things which are facts, and one is that a locked brake will flat spot a tire, but not stop the car faster. ABS in some cases of mixed ice, or water on one side and dry pavement on the other can screw up and stop the car slower. And on snow, it will not allow the plow stopping and thus stops in a longer distance. ABS brakes cost more to maintain. ABS with Stability Control does work well on most cars, and there are better and worse system, just like other components on cars. I like 4 wheel disk brakes, and could live with GOOD quality ABS systems as well. I do not live in a snow area. And I agree with the person that said, and on/off switch, like they have for stability control would be a cool feature.

dan165 · February 2005

"ABS brakes cost more to maintain".

Not true unless the ABS system breaks

"locked brake will flat spot a tire"

Only if you keep doing it.

"piss poor ABS systems can lock up unexpectedly or not work as planned"

Not true unless something is wrong with it.

z71bill · February 2005

If you take the time and look at the tests that have been done - sometimes the tests say

ABS will stop faster -

Sometimes regular brakes stop faster

but most of the time - if you have an experienced driver - there is not any difference.

I would not buy a new car without ABS (could say the same for air bags)but not because they stop faster - but because the allow better control during a panic stop (steering).

But maybe someone can explain how reducing the force on the brakes (that is what ABS does) even for a split second (or really 10+ times per second) how this reduces the time it takes to stop.

Is it easier to push a car with its wheels locked up - or one than has its wheels turning?

vanman1 · February 2005

There may not be a shortening of distance in your stop but the control factor can not be ignored. You will NOT have as much steering control of your car if you are locked up. ABS prevents lock up hence giving you better control.

No matter where you live, ABS is a must in my opinion. Wet conditions can be just as bad as snowy conditions.

210delray · February 2005

I test drove a base manual transmission sedan with only floor mats as an option. Other than a somewhat obtrusive engine noise at idle, it seemed to drive and handle just fine, and it was easy to shift gears. Overall, I was impressed.

Downsides were the hard plastic dashboard (but everybody's doing the same in this price class now) and a rather flat, hard seat back.

lngtonge18 · February 2005

I sat in a base Cobalt sedan today. The interior is very classy and upscale looking for a base model. The seats are very firm but seemed comfortable. Back seat room was reasonably good although entry/exit requires some maneuvering. The biggest disappointment was in the operation of the climate controls. They were the cheapest junkiest feeling dial controls I've ever encountered. They simply felt flimsy. Instead of a solid click from detent to detent, it feels like the dial isn't connected to anything and you feel a snapping sensation when it reaches the detent points. It baffles me how GM can put nice climate controls in my 05 Colorado and then mess it up on the Cobalt.

bigdaddycoats · February 2005

Did it seem peppy with the manual? I have not seen a manual at the local dealer yet. No coupes either.

vanman1 · February 2005

I saw my fist coupe today. Looked great except for the plastic wheel covers. Chevy needs to get better looking wheel covers for the Cobalt, the ones on the Cavalier looked a lot better and covered up the steel rims much better.

Hard palstic is everywhere in the Corolla also. I was surprised but like in the Cobalt, it looks good.

ndsax707 · February 2005

One comment about the ABS discussion above...

ABS should always result in shorter stopping distances on dry pavement because the coefficient of static friction (tire rolling on road) is much greater than the coefficient of kinetic friction (tire sliding on road). Friction is what causes you to stop, and also what allows you to turn.

In honor of this being a Cobalt thread...

I've seen a few sedans on the road now. They look very sharp, and I can't see how anyone would confuse them with a Cavalier.

ericf1 · February 2005

Anyways, you need to purchase ABS to get traction control, and since I want TC I have little choice.

And side-airbags will soon be standard anyways, so I also consider them a must have.

Lots of dealerships have Cobalt Coupe automatics now, so I won't have a problem finding one to test drive.

tyrant · February 2005

FORD FOCUS IS TERRIBLE. before I bought my malibu classic with the 2.2l ecotec dual overhead cam. (standard). I test drove many cars. The fords that I've driven had poor acceleration. If you are talking about standard four cylinders. NOT sports packages or turbos/supercharged. The focus/contour/escort. you name it, they sucked. my malibu could beat those pissboxes off the line

vanman1 · February 2005

The Ecotec is a great little engine. We had one in our previous Alero and it was peppy and fun to drive. I think the coming 2.4L will be amazing with 170+ hp and VVT added.

210delray · February 2005

Yes, the car seems quite peppy with the manual. 145 hp in a car that weighs 2800 pounds is certainly sufficient, and the 5-speed seems well matched to the engine. It's geared a little lower than in my '98 Frontier, which means you can upshift at lower speeds (nice). The Cobalt has a shift light to tell you when to upshift for optimum fuel economy, but if you ignore the light and keep going at the same speed, the light will go off.

ddelise · February 2005

Does anyone know when this engine will be introduced, and at what premium?

I am in the market for the Cobalt LT Sedan (or maybe a Vibe), and will need to purchase/lease in June.

Thanks - Damon

vanman1 · February 2005

Last I heard, the 2.4 was suppose to come in the spring and I think it will as it's suppose to go into the Solstice and base G6 as well. That said, if production is slow to get going the 2.4 Cobalts may be delayed.

jhinsc · February 2005

M1miata, it appears your perception on how well ABS and stability control works is based more on personal beliefs rather than fact. Sure there are stories out there that will back up what you're saying, but in most cases, that's what they are, stories. But there are many, many more stories that prove these safety systems do work well. Volvo has been documenting these for years, and insurance companies also keeps track of them too, and reward drivers with insurance discounts. It's well proven that these two safety systems work to benefit the majority of drivers in almost all driving situations, including snow, water and ice. Most people, including yourself, would not be able think their way through a situation fast enough to avoid locking up a non-ABS car if another car or object suddenly blocked your path. You would instinctively stomp on the brakes. I've seen this happen too many times driving in So. Cal.

When airbags first became available, there were the paranoid people who thought they would be killed by the airbag exploding out of the steering wheel. Have they seen the videos from the IIHS? Many people feel the same way about ABS, and unfortunately these are the very people that need it most on the roads they drive. I for one don't want one of them driving behind me when I can stop quickly with my ABS car and they come barrelling into me because they couldn't stop (plus the fact they were following too closely too)

I encourage all drivers to avail themselves of all the safety equipment provided on new cars today. ABS is becoming more universally standard as airbags did years ago. Side airbags with head protection is gaining in popularity along with traction and stability control. Lexus is on the forefront with it's pre-accident system. Finally, to all those who think your personal freedoms are being tramped on because of seatbelt laws; if you don't love yourself enough to wear them, wear them for those who love you. They will appreciate it very much.

m1miata · March 2005

I do know how ABS and Stability Control works. Pretty simple to figure out how it works, how some will be better than others, and how it can fail. The all wheel drive cars with computer control stability are the ultimate in computer aided driving. Something like that Acura is a techno wizard car. If the next car I get is a Stang, I would prefer to have the traction control and ABS I think is thrown into the package. The pre-'o5 models do have a bit too much weight up front, so they can load up the front wheels under heavy braking. The tail end has been know to wag a bit. Maybe not as crazy as my old '65. Drum brakes - how ever did we live through those days?
Does your car have stability control, traction control, ABS, electronic brake force distribution, and brake assist like the RAV4 by Toyota? Wow, talk about drive by computer ;-) By the way, people have been killed and injured by air bags, and ABS screw-ups. And yes, I know air bags can and do work most of the time, and yes, the new ones after 1998 are better - safer. Best device is the safety belt, with shoulder belt. Next subject, flouride in your water ;-)) Ooops, this is off subject. The Cobalt looks like it has a good interior, and a pretty strong base engine, so I would say for those wanted a little Chevy a base one for $15k looks like a really fair deal for the consumer. In the past, I would say wait for the 3rd year as they sort out problems. Maybe I should recall the past each day?

vanman1 · March 2005

Dateline NBC story..

"So, of the 16 cars in this round of testing, 14  some of them with side airbags and some without  rated "poor." But, remember, when optional side airbags were added to the Chevy Cobalt and the Toyota Corolla, they got the second highest rating, "acceptable".

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7088736/

The Institute also put two of these cars through a high speed "frontal offset" test

"The 2005 Kia Spectra was rated "acceptable" And the 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt earned the Institute's highest rating, "good." The Cobalt was also named a best pick".

alpha01 · March 2005

The Cobalt review in the April issue of Car and Driver is an excellent one. Check it out, it should be on newsstands now, or very shortly.

~alpha

vanman1 · March 2005

Now if they can keep the initial quality up (with no recalls), get a "recommend" from CR and get people to drive a Cobalt.. sales could make GM smile. The car certainly has a lot going for it.

dan165 · March 2005

Great news for Chevy. "Cobalt best pick for small car" was a headline I saw in a local paper. Best press GM can get and it's all free.

bigdaddycoats · March 2005

Great review in the new Car and Driver. They really seemed to like the Cobalt.

npgmbr · March 2005

There is an article in USAToday about the test today and I thought it was very odd that the author of the article made no mention of the Cobalt at all.

vanman1 · March 2005

On the CTV 11pm news (a cdn national network), there was a piece on the test and Chevy was mentioned as the top pick. Nice!

bporter1 · March 2005

I am very happy to hear that the Cobalt did well in the offset crash, and pretty good with side airbags in the side impact test. It is good to see GM get an atta-boy now and then.

micweb · March 2005

The Insurance Institute's test involves crashing a pickup truck or SUV height vehicle, with contoured front end, into the side of the tested vehicle at 31 mph. This is different from the NHTSA's side impact test, which uses a mid-size passenger car as the impacting vehicle. Since the point of contact with an SUV is higher than that of a car, and since they weigh more, very few vehicles can pass the test regardless of their size (for example, the Honda Element, 2004 CR-V, and Chevrolet Impala fail). Some cars have passed, like the Camry and Accord, but only with curtain airbags (one of the reason the industry is going to voluntary adoption of curtain airbags by 2007) and probably only because they are recent re-designs and were probably anticipating this test. The 2005 CR-V was upgraded to standard side curtain and torso airbags and a reinforced door frame area in response to the failed 2004 test so that it now passes.

Traditionally, side impacts are MUCH harder to deal with that frontal or frontal offset impacts, due to the smaller amount of space in which to absorb the impact and the small amount of material to absorb the impact.

One major issue that is emerging with the IIHS's test, is that the impact in this type of crash is so severe that frames are bending and the passenger safety zone is severely impacted. Nowadays, very few front crashes (NHTSA or IIHS) involve such a severe deformation of the passenger area that serious injuries (crushing) results. In front crashes the main issue nowadays is how to reduce deceleration forces, not how to avoid intrusions into the passenger area.

Not so with side impact crashes. While the NHTSA has passes most cars in their much less severe side impact test, it has also highlighted some cars (Focus ZX3 is one I know about) for poor protection with risk of injury due to intrusion(rear seat in the ZX3). On the other hand, the NHTSA has given some cars up to 5 star ratings (Golf sith side curtain, I believe) which has created a false sense of security which this new, more severe, IIHS test deflates. In fact the IIHS so ups the ante that of the 16 small cars tested, only two barely passed; the rest were poor with life threatening injuries for the occupants. Keep in mind that a small car has a much more severe weight disadvantage in a side impact from a truck/SUV than a mid or full sized car (and not all mid or full sized cars are passing either).

Now, here's the punchline: Toyota Corolla and Cobalt, each with side curtain air bags, both passed, albeit barely (acceptable, not good). I am amazed that a two year old new model (the Corolla) was able to pass and that anything small from GM is able to pass.

Wait, there's more, and this is the part that blows me away: the Ion failed miserably. I don't mean failed due to an unexpected head impact, but due to extreme intrusion and almost collapse of the body structure.

Whoa, what happened? I thought the Cobalt and Ion were both on the same global GM "platform". I thought that the Cobalt and Ion were identical under the skin. But apparently that is not so. I am very grateful I didn't buy an Ion last year. And this year, although the Ion is supposed to be tweaked to be closer to Cobalt quality (body integrity, noise, etc.) it clearly isn't strong were it counts.

Kudos to Chevrolet for spending extra time on the CAD/CAM computers and supercomputers to get the body strength of the Cobalt to such an amazing level. Shame on Chevrolet and Toyota for not making curtain airbags standard on these small cars already. (I expect a little more from GM since they made ABS standard on the Cavalier for years.) I am hoping that GM will make curtain airbags on the Cobalt, Malibu, and Impala standard for the 06 model line, since they have stated their goal is for universal adoption.

I think based on the test results, Chevy needs to promptly discontinue the Ion and rebadge the Cobalt to sell as an Ion. If other people pick up on this IIHS report, sales of small cars are going to plummet - this is the first solid evidence that mid-sized cars are significantly safer than small cars.

I think it would be a great career move for GM to announce, in light of the IIHS test results, that all remaining 05 Cobalts will come with side curtain airbags standard.

One final note. If you read the reviews on some cars, the Camry I believe and the Malibu, you will see that the IIHS notes "running" or mid-year safety upgrades; I belive the Malibu was given additional door padding (some manufacturers believe better door padding is as effective as, or more so, than actual torso airbags).

vuefor2 · March 2005

I was sad to see our Ion failed while the Cobalt passed. I guess this won't help Ion sales out much. I am tempted to buy a Cobalt now but I guess at least our Vue gets top rating and thats the vehicle we usually go out with the baby in.

vanman1 · March 2005

The ION is a decent car with the recent upgrades but the Cobalt is what the Ion should have been. I think with the Aura and SKY, Saturn may be getting back on a better track, but Saturn squandered a great opportunity to increase sales with the average ION.

ndsax707 · March 2005

These tests were very enlightening, but I have one major problem with them. The vehicle being tested is standing still, while the "SUV" is moving perpendicular to it at 31 mph. Most of these types of crashes do not occur when one vehicle is standing still, but when both are moving, and thus the test does not accurately depict real world situations. The forces involved when both vehicles are moving are much different than with one vehicle at rest. I think for this type of a test to properly simulate a real crash that both vehicles need to be moving. The "SUV" moving at 31 mph and hitting the test car moving at 15 mph would be a much more accurate way to test. There's my two cents.

dan165 · March 2005

Nothing is perfect in testing but given the Cobalt has top rated front and is 1 of 2 cars to get an acceptable side impact rating, one has to figure the Cobalt is the safest small car you can buy now and that's nothing to complain about.

210delray · March 2005

I happen to know that the IIHS went through a lot of developmental work to come up with the final side-impact testing procedure. Their facility is capable of running the type of test you mention -- both cars moving, at different speeds. The results in moving side-struck cars were essentially similar to those that occurred when the cars were stationary, and it's a lot easier to make sure the struck car is in the right place when it's not moving -- hence the rationale for the struck car being stationary.

This actually squares with my experience in inspecting actual crashed vehicles and the resulting injuries. It was almost impossible to tell if the side-struck vehicle was moving at the moment of impact by looking at the car alone. It was the police report and the victims' interviews that told us what had happened.

venus537 · March 2005

the USA today test drive isn't such a lovefest.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-03-10-cobalt_x.htm

CR will have a test drive of the cobalt next month. from the profile from the current issue the cobalt doesn't look to be too stellar.

still it will probably be one of the few small cars to be recommended because most don't do well in the crash tests.

vanman1 · March 2005

"Despite the gripes, Cobalt is an inviting car, assuming you and yours fit. It is satisfying to drive, and the good IIHS safety rating provides peace of mind. You don't feel sentenced to Cobalt for lack of cash to buy something better, but rather that you chose it on purpose.

Much is new, so you might not want to be the first on your block to get one. But based on how it looks and drives, Cobalt is a neat piece of work."

CR LOVES good crash tests. I'm sure it goes a long way for Chevy's chances with getting Cobalt recommended!

210delray · March 2005

In the April issue in their lists of all cars rated, it does not have the Cobalt as recommended.

And even with the good crash test scores, it won't get a recommendation until it's been on the market a year to get some idea of reliability.

johnclineii · March 2005

Your title: "Its already not recommended" may mislead some. The "Not Recommended" may be seen as being cars to avoid. Although Cobalt is not on the recommended list, it is not listed as "Not Recommended."

Sorry to post this, but some may have been misled..

prdm · March 2005

Anyone know if the lockout prevention system works with a manual transmission?

Cobalt LS Sedan with 1SB, SAB, MP3, Speakers on order and the dealer wasn't very clear about this? None on the lot to test on.

210delray · March 2005

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. Consumer Reports has not checkmarked the Cobalt as a recommended car, and they won't until a year's worth of at least average reliability is accumulated. Otherwise, I think it scored well enough in their testing.

By the way, I just received the latest issue of Car and Driver and they like the Cobalt overall. They tested an LS 4-door with auto tranny.

alternator · March 2005

I see that the Owner's Manual says there is an "oil-life monitor" that indicates when an oil change is needed, based on how you drive, not merely on miles driven. I would sure like to know how that is done.

cobaltfan2290 · March 2005

you should but one. I just got a cobalt lt sedan and it is amazing. the handling is amazing. I am very happy with the chevy cobalt.

ddelise · March 2005

Congrats on your purchase. Can you give some more details? Looking for total MSRP, options, sell price, dealer fee, trade-in, rebates, etc.

Just curious!

Damon

cobaltfan2290 · March 2005

it's fully loaded. xm satellite radio, onstar, sport package, leather interior, spoiler. you name it it's got it. it cost $21,450. monthly payments of $240.

cboy_24 · March 2005

Just bought a Cobalt LS with Auto Tranny, Side Air Curtains, 1SA package. MSRP $18,170, purchased for $14K after discounts, rebates, etc.
Once sales tax and fees are added on -final price was about $15.6K

vanman1 · March 2005

Unfortunately I have a family of 4 not and need larger cars. My interest in the cobalt is more of a "see what replaced the Cavalier" since I had 2 of them in the past. That said, I didn't recommend the Cavalier to anyone after about 2000 as the car was just too dated. We leased our 2nd one and it was perfectly reliable, just very unrefined and old. From what I have read, I will recommend Cobalt to everyone, it's nice that GM has an extremely competitive small car, wasn't sure I would ever say that.

kurtamaxxguy · March 2005

The ION has plastic doors and a relatively sparse "safety cage" under them, so I'm not surprised it did worse in side impacts than the Cobalt did.

CR wasn't all that thrilled with the Cobalt but didn't pan it like it did the ION.

As for the SS, sounds like it's an improvement over the ION red line, but why, oh why do these "sport cars" have those stupid huge wings on the trunks? Do those wings have any use whatsoever outside of cranking the car at maximum speed on a race track?

cobaltfan2290 · March 2005

you could get a cobalt lt sedan and it would fit your family. I just got one and it is great.

vanman1 · March 2005

"Wings" are optional. Order it with out.

The SS I saw had one though. Some people love them.

bigdaddycoats · March 2005

Local dealer has 7yr/100,000 mile warranty stickers plastered on the Cobalt front windows. Is this new?

m1miata · March 2005

Must be an extended warranty. 5/50k is the GM warranty.
Maybe that is in lieu of them knocking off a $1,ooo or so?

Loren

Chevrolet Cobalt

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