Chrysler 300/300C

fsmmcsi · January 2004

The new 300C beats the 1996 Chevy Impala SS I previously owned in every way!

I have been considering the upcoming Ford 500, which will perform OK with the 200HP V6, but why buy that when the 300C is available? Both will have an elevated seating position (I saw one article saying the seat bottom was about 2.5" higher that the previous 300M).

I have also seen the 300C - parked in a Denny's lot a few months ago (silly me - I didn't bother the test crew), in flat gray with the emblems taped over, and with a Magnum, and both driving south on I-405 in Irvine, CA a few weeks ago (again in flat gray with the emblems covered, and some sort of pipe/hose connections below the left rear bumper - wonder what those are??).

shipo · January 2004

They strongly criticized Chrysler twice for offering the 300 with a 2.7 as its base engine. I think that's silly. Maybe I'm missing something here, but wouldn't a 2.7 300 make a great NYC cab?

If DC wants, to recoup the tooling costs faster by selling lots of fleet 300's; I say, more power to them. By selling more units in this fashion, DC will be able to offer the Hemi 300C at a price that is much easier for the rest of us to afford. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

b4z · January 2004

that you can option a IMpala LS up to 29K and a Impala SS to 31.5K.
The 300C is clearly much more car.
I am guessing that when the rebates start on the 300 that Gm will lose sales of the the wbody cars and also the CTS to the 300.

soozpk · January 2004

Oh God, Shipo, don't say that !!! LOL

Back in ' 67, we were residing in Queens (NYC), and my old man went out and
bought a Fury III. Lo and behold, if one ventured into Manhattan, not only were
there piles of Fury I taxis, but the NYPD had dark green / black piles of them
also. What a ribbing I used to get from my friends whenever one of these fleet
vehicles would come by, saying, "You're mom's home"!!! Oh God, Shipo!!!

fsmmcsi · January 2004

Don't forget that the 300 will be the same price as the competing front wheel drive cars (Le Sabre, Park Ave., Camry, Accord, Impala, Bonneville, Grand Prix, Avalon, Altima, and upcoming Ford Five Hundred / Mercury Montego), and the old Crown Victoria / Grand Marquis.

The 300C is equipped with many luxury features and it has a large interior, which also means it will compete with the Lexus LS 330, Lexus GS, Infiniti M45, Infiniti G35, Cadillac CTS, Nissan Maxima, and so forth.

I priced a 300C on Edmunds and the Chrysler site today - sticker of $35,218 with Protection Group 2, Sound Group 2, U-Connect, Power pedals, cold weather group, satellite radio, and wheel locks. That means it should be no problem to buy one for $33,500 or less.

shipo · January 2004

I have fond memories of the old Fury, or in our case, the Sports Suburban Station Wagon motivated by a 383 two BBL carb, complete with contact paper fake wood grain sides. ;-) That was the car I learned to drive in. It seems to me that we managed to get like 18 members of my H.S. track team in that thing. ;-)

Fortunately for me, I no longer live in the NYC area, and while I still go back there on business several times per year, I think that I would much rather ride in a 2.7 300 cab as opposed to the current fleet of Honda Odyssey's that they have running around now. :-/

Best Regards,
Shipo

russklass · January 2004

Saw the new 300C at the Detroit show and was not impressed.
The interior is cheap looking. The controls (seats, HVAC, lights) have retrogressed to the old style.
A 300C Hemi model on the floor, with no NAV or DVD player was stickered at $36,000!
A 2.7 litre engine in the base version of this monstrosity is a joke!
Evidently Chrysler has learned nothing from the Pacifica intro.

fsmmcsi · January 2004

A dash full of buttons is much more difficult than knobs for the radio volume, the temperature, the fan speed, and other settings.

I don't know what other car you could buy that offers all that the 300C offers for the price. I priced a 300C with Protection Group 2, Sound Group 2, U-Connect, Satellite radio, power pedals, the cold weather group, and wheel locks at $35,218 on the sticker, meaning that I will pay no more than $33,500 plus tax and license. That buys a large four door sedan with:

- front, side,and head air bags, and a modern design which will perform very well in crashes

- rear wheel drive

- four wheel independent suspension

- a 340 HP, 390 ft.-lbs engine with a five speed transmission

- heated exterior rear view mirrors, with a driver side mirror which dims to prevent headlight glare

- performance four wheel disc brakes with anti-lock and brake assist

- stability program and traction control

- super sound system

- automatic headlamps and fog lamps

- rain sensing variable wipers

- tilt and telescope steering wheel and power pedals

- power seats with heated front seats

- universal remote transmitter

- outside temperature, compass, and driver information center

- memory for seats, mirrors, radio, and steering column

- many other fancy features

The 300 range will compete very well against the front wheel drive mid-sized and large cars at the low end, the ancient rear wheel drive Crown Victoria for fleet duty, and cars such as the Lincoln LS, the Lexus GS, the Cadillac CTS (and upcoming STS), Lincoln Town Car, and the Infiniti M45 at the high end.

intrepidspirit · January 2004

I'm with soozpk!

If I buy a 300C (with hemi) for $35k+, I don't want to see cheaper 300 version ($23k) taxis or fleet cars all over the place!

Call it snob appeal if you like, but to me the "one size fits all" philosophy greatly detracts from the 300C's appeal and will ultimately result in a lower than expected resale value.

My wife and I have had 3 300M's. One of the reasons that we did so (besides loving the car!) was that no one ever mistook it for a Concord or an Intrepid...the new 300 is a 300C, Concord and Intrepid all rolled into one!

Just my humble opinion...

shipo · January 2004

I can see your point, at least to a certain extent. That said, I currently drive a car that, while it is fairly exclusive over here (in the U.S.), the same model was a dime a dozen taxi over in Germany (where I took delivery of it). It was kind of wierd seeing 520i taxis all over the place, equipped with hub caps and heavy duty vinyl seat covers. The good news was that simply with one look at the trim, nobody would mistake my car with a taxi.

To show how all things are relative, the taxi driver (this time in a Chrysler MiniVan with a Fiat diesel engine) who took me back to my hotel after I dropped my car off to be shipped over here, asked me which car I had. When I told him that I had a 530i, he laughed and asked me, "What are you going to do with all of that power in America?"

Now here we are two years later talking about the 300C Hemi which has more than half again as much power. Go figure.

Best Regards,
Shipo

fsmmcsi · January 2004

I see the point about base versions, although agree that many people can differentiate the models. However, people who are unable to differentiate the models can work to Chrysler's advantage - they can buy a base version, thinking they have the image of the 300C.

The '96 Impala SS I formerly owned did look just like a taxi or police car, but many people knew exactly what it was. Others, such as modified little four cylinder drivers who thought it was just a taxi with no marks were often surprised when I zoomed past them. The insurance showed the Impala as a Caprice, so the same may be true for the 300C - it will be a fast car, but should have low insurance rates.

The other possibility is keeping the 300C a Chrysler, and all of the lesser versions a Dodge with the Magnum front end. Does anyone know about plans for Dodge versions besides the Magnum?

shipo · January 2004

I agree with everything you just posted, however, do you really think that the Dodge dealers will stand for not being allowed to sell a Hemi version of the Magnum?

Best Regards,
Shipo

soozpk · January 2004

I never sat in one, never even been close to one,(I don't even have a damn catalog yet), and if you go back to the very first posting here, I commented on how austere the interior of a $35,000 Pacifica was, and hoped that the 300 didn't come the same way. The silver (plastic or aluminum) panel that surrounds the radio area would look better in woodgrain.
I did order the California Walnut Trim option, but to be quite honest,
I'm not sure what I'm getting for the 400 bucks. Every pic I see
of the interior shows the upper wood-like steering wheel, and the
same thing on the door pulls, and shifter knob as standard.

fsmmcsi · January 2004

Shipo, the solution is to combine Chrysler, Dodge, and jeep in all of the dealerships.

tomcat630 · January 2004

"All the low end 300 (2.7, 3.5) based models - it was nice to only see a limited number of 300M vehicles, this could be good for Chrysler to get the volume but loses some of the vehicle uniqueness."

The 2005 300 is now a whole series replacing Concorde, LHS, and 300M. I doubt there will be any 300 taxis, since no fleet only models are in the works. That would be Dodge's market anyway.

Re: Fury 3 as cop car also and getting teased. In my old 'hood, if a car was a cop car it meant that the car was powerful, durable, and fast, i.e. "cool". No "joke".

quietflyer · January 2004

I have been reading these messages for a while and seeing all the complaints about the 300C and the 2.7L and 3.5L versions looking alike. In Europe Mercedes-Benz cars often look the same even with vastly different engines. The E class for example is available in Britain with eight different engines from a 1.8L supercharged four cylinder to a 5.5L supercharged V8! The prices go from 26,000 Pounds to 62,000 Pounds (This is from the Mercedes UK website). Chrysler is just following the parent company pattern.

fsmmcsi · January 2004

Good Point! In Europe, people know to look more closely to see the version. Here (southern CA), many of the Mercedes and BMW cars have the model designation emblems removed. Some people probably do not like to clean and wax around the emblems, but I'll bet most of them have a base model car.

b4z · January 2004

You guys are assuming that the base car is a quality vehicle.
If it is a mediocre car that tries to compete with other 40K vehicles than the pricing model is a bad one.
If it is a solidly built vehicle with excellent structral rigidty and durable components then it is fine.
Mercedes got away with doing that because the their lower end taxi cab models would go 3-400K miles without major rebuilds.
Don't think anybody will go 400K with a Dodge Neon.

quietflyer · January 2004

I don't think there will be that much difference in quality between the base model and the 300C with regard to the main structure. Trim will be different and materials will change but those are just added to the base structure. Mercedes has had quality problems too. And as far as taxi cab models going 3-400K miles, they usually required more regular maintenance (lubrication, component replacement, and tuning) than American cars ever get.
I had a 1995 Plymouth Neon Sport. It was not as "refined" as the import cars, but it was reliable and fun to drive. I never had a problem with it and only traded it because it felt small next to all the 18-wheelers on the interstate. It would probably still be running now.

fsmmcsi · January 2004

B4z, the base car (the 300) will be in the low $20,000 range, not the $40,000 range, so it will compete with other cars in that range. Edmunds has all of the 300 model prices, so try pricing the various versions.

b4z · January 2004

Which was the point.

We only see the loaded luxury Merecedes' here in the states.

In Germany they are as common as Chevrolets.

But people are willing to pay higher prices for higher levels of equipment because they feel that the basic design, even in it's cheapest iteration, is excellent.

If the 300/Magnum is durable then it will take over the taxi cab market from the Lincoln Town Car(which will go 3-400K miles,) and GM and Ford will also lose the police market.

Those 2 markets alone are worth at least 50K sales per year.

The Impala, which is FWD, sold 267,000 last year!
A good bit of those sales were to police agencies and taxiis.
We haven't even talked about rental cars yet.

I would sell my Impala in a heartbeat to get a RWD 300 if it turns out to be a well engineered vehicle.

But you don't see a lot of people running out to buy 31.5K supercharged Impala SSs. Because the general consensus is that the FWD chassis is not up to the competition.

fsmmcsi · January 2004

B4Z, yes I agree. The keys are that the basic car be very good, and that people understand that the 300 is available in a wide range of configurations from the low $20,000 range up to $40,000. Good point on the police and taxi business - the only advantage of the otherwise primative Crown Vic / Grand Marquis / Town car is a bigger trunk, and the Impala police model, while more durable than the normal car, has succeeded only because it was the only other choice.

soozpk · January 2004

I was always against the DCX merger, but if it had to take place, Mercedes was probably
the better of the bunch to "merge" with. (I use that term loosely) Can you envision Mopar
being run by the likes of Toyota / Honda / Nissan???

As for the 300's quality, that remains to be seen. The Mercedes 5-speed automatic
has been around awhile, so most of the bugs must be out of it. However, coupled
with Mopar's Autostick, can it take the constant shifting abuse that it certainly wasn't
initally designed for by Mercedes? (Thank God for extended warranty)

Included in the C are an oversized radiator, and larger disc brakes, so maybe
Mopar knows what it's doing.

cjs2002 · January 2004

any one know when the 300C is comming out or has it not had a final release date of when you can walk into a dealor and get one?

ruski · January 2004

I think MB cars have had an AutoStick equivalent for a few years.

fsmmcsi · January 2004

Rest assured that the Mercedes 5 speed automatic has had manual shifting provisions for several years. The nicest thing is that the stick does not have to be moved to a position besides drive, as on the Pacifica. Instead, the center position is drive, and moving the stick left gives a downshift, right an upshift.

Too bad the 300C will not have the new 7 speed automatic!

quietflyer · January 2004

I just saw my first 300 today at the South Carolina International Auto Show in Greenville, SC. It was a Limited version. They had it on a rotating platform so I could not sit in it. The raised platform made it hard to judge its size. It actually looked kind of small. They also had a Dodge Magnum on display, also rotating. It looked better as the platform was lower. Both cars were a dark color I could not identify because of the lights. My '99 300M looks much better to me than the new 300 and I enjoyed driving it home.

b4z · January 2004

I don't know the release date but over 700 have already ben built. I would guess less than a month.
Here is the production data.

http://www.autonews.com/files/prod.pdf

soozpk · January 2004

I ordered one on 1/16/ 04.

soozpk · January 2004

Chrysler Order Codes

   * BA -------build order
   * BB ------ review by fleet department
   * BD ------ special equipment processing
   * BE ------ edit error
   * BG ------ passed edit not available for schedule
   * BGL ----- edit ok parts unavailable
   * BX ------ passed edit available for schedule
   * C ------- sub firm
   * D ------- firm schedule - dealer has allocation and all parts available
   * D ------- 1 gateline schedule / scheduled to be built
   * E ------- frame
   * F ------- paint
   * G ------- trim
   * I ------- built not okayed
   * J ------- built okayed
   * JB ------ shipped to body vendor
   * JE ------ emission check
   * JS ------ shipped to storage
   * KZ ------ released by plant , invoiced
   * KZL ----- released / not shipped
   * KZM ----- first rail departure
   * KZN ----- first rail arrival
   * KZO ----- delayed / recieved
   * KZOA ---- plant holding
   * KZOB ---- zone / distribution hold
   * KZOC ---- carrier delays
   * KZOD ---- carrier hold
   * KZOE ---- mis-shipped vehicle
   * KZOF ---- show-/ test vehicle
   * KZOG ---- damaged vehicle
   * KZOH ---- all other reasons
   * KZT ----- second rail departure
   * KZU ----- second rail arrival
   * KZX ----- delivered to dealer
   * ZA ------ order canceled

cjs2002 · January 2004

I hope I can see one at a dealor soon, from the pics something stricks me as cool abot the car. I like it, but I'm afraid of chryslers reliability. (granted i'm probably leasing one) but everyone I've ever known to own a chrysler product they said they'd never get one again... please can someone tell me that not every chrysler model is like this. I also like the looks of the Xfire but the issue of reliability with chrysler comes up again. what do you think?

shipo · January 2004

Anecdotal evidence is rarely good enough to base hard and fast decisions upon. That said, after five years with our 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport, where its only unscheduled maintenance was a dead battery after four years, we felt good enough about their reliability to buy another. Not only that, but we kept the old van as a third car, and it's still going strong at 80K+ miles.

Best Regards,
Shipo

soozpk · January 2004

We currently own a '94 LeBaron Landau, not trading it off, wife is giving it to a needy woman with two kids where she works. It has 121,000 on it, but in great shape yet. It does have one
"quirk" however. Sometimes, if I go through heavy snow, the serpentine belt comes off.
However, the engine is by Mitsubishi (3.0), not Chrysler.

As for the Crossfire, I like the design, but, as another poster here pointed out early on,
it has no room for a spare. What you get is a 12V compressor, a can of tire sealer, and
a prayer that all you have is a puncture. I'd be paranoid to go out of town. A Continental kit could be used, but maybe wouldn't look right.

quietflyer · January 2004

I had a '95 Plymouth Neon for 3 years and never had a single problem with it in 58,000 miles. I then got a used '93 Chrysler Concorde with 60,000 miles on it and kept it for 5 1/2 years and traded it with 193,000 miles. It had some problems, but overall it was very reliable. I now have a '99 300M I bought used with 39,000 miles. Other than a transmission speed sensor I have had no problems with it and now have 59,000 miles on it. I have been very happy with Chrysler products so far.

fsmmcsi · January 2004

I rememmber fun times my wife and I had as members of NAISSO, the national club with local chapters for '94 to '96 Chevy Impala SS owners. We would meet in groups at restaurants, caravan along freeways (once over 70 cars in a line on 101 from LA to Santa Barbara), go to car shows and drag races, and a fair number of people raced on the weekends (drag, slalom, and road course). How about ATCO - Association of 300 C Owners for a name?

cjs2002 · January 2004

The more I try to find info on this car, the more intrigued I become, and the more I begin to like it. the body style at first was very offensive but I kinda like it now. and when compared to the G well its cheaper with the V6 (250 hp) and hell put in the hemi and your still a tad cheaper than the model i was looking at for the G. maybe its time for me to stop by a dealorship and take a look at a crossfire and hopefully find a date on the 300C and see when they'll have one I can actually look at.

b4z · January 2004

is the tortise shell wood on the steering wheel. it looks incredibley cheap in the pics.
I have not seen it in person.

tomcat630 · January 2004

What is misleading about this forum is calling the whole line "300C". In fact there will be 3 trim levels: 300 base, 300 Limited, and 300C.

soozpk · January 2004

When I think of tortoise shell, I think of something like military green . I see nothing
that resembles that. What I do see is a top section of steering wheel, either in wood,
or a resin, of sorts. Along with that are matching door pulls.
There is a California Walnut Trim option for 400 bucks, but I'm not sure what that
really comprises of, as I've never seen it. OR rather, is what one does see on the net
the optional woodtrim?????? My dealer wasn't sure. Does anyone have last year's
300M catalog to check it out??

riker2 · January 2004

The pictures on various websites of the 300 steering wheel and door pull accents are the faux tortoise shell. I personally think that it looks great, and is a nice change from the walnut trim that's almost become a cliche in many interiors.

I'm sure the California Walnut will look like the current option on the 300M.

I think the tortoise shell has a really fresh look, and the depth of the different amber and brown tones works well. I have the walnut option on my current 300M, and I'm looking forward to the change.

Does anyone know if the A and B pillars will be fabric covered? The 300M never got around to using the treatment, and to be honest, a $36,000 car shouldn't have molded plastic pillars up against the fabric headliner. It may be a petty detail, but even some Kia and Hyundai models have fabric covered pillars!

Also, are all the metallic accents real metal, or a combination of metal and treated plastic. These are the details that become relevant to me at this price range. Other touches like slow spring opening glove boxes and compartment covers are another feature common in many cars at this price that Chrysler hasn't incorporated yet.

I'm going to the Preview Party for the Philadelphia Auto Show on Friday night, and I hope they have a 300 available to see close enough to answer some of my concerns.

cjs2002 · January 2004

Any clue as to when these should be hitting dealor rooms... I hope to see one @ the Cleveland IX show next month, but I'd like to take one for a test drive. The limited is 29 MSRP and my dad gets a chrysler discount so I'm not sure weather or not to go the 250HP V6 route or the 350HP V8 route (will allcome down to gas milage) anyways I was planning on getting a G, but I'm gonna see when this comes out I was going to take the plunge in March but if this is coming out in april or may, I'm thinking I'll wait just to make sure I want the G over this car.

bnet504 · January 2004

I just compared the standard features of a 300 Limited ( $29,890.00)and a concorde lxi ($26,860.00) on the chrysler website, and noticed that the concorde lxi comes standard with six speakers while the 300 limited comes standard with only four speakers. Can someone tell me whats wrong with that?

ruski · January 2004

http://www.library.miami.edu/archives/bound/img65mr.jpg

james138 · January 2004

I would like to see a road test of the base Chysler 300 2.7 engine, 3.5 engine, and the v-8, base Kia Amanti 3.5 engine, and the Mercury Grand Marquis v-8 4.6 engine from Car and Drive
Magazine or other car magazines. Have not seen any real road test yet on any of these cars.

All base prices on the 3 cars are around 25,000, more or less. Which one would give you the most bang for the buck, and which one would be first, second, and third in a real road test?

Given that the base Chysler 300 has a 2.7 engine and the Grand Marquis has a 4.6 v-8 engine, both being rear wheel drive would be very interesting in a road test.

The Chyslers have more road noise than most of the American cars, hoping the new one will be much quieter.

Most of the Amanti onwers say there car is very quiet and very smooth riding.

cjs2002 · January 2004

The amante is well its a Kia and well nuff said plus its only got like 200HP I think. as for the others I don't know. the base engine on this car is a pore choice @ over 3500 lbs I don't think it has enough umf to make it go. the 3.5 V6 isn't bad at 250 HP, and the V8 well I think it rocks but is a bit steap for a chrysler, then again I still like the car. so I don't know
if it were me I wouldn't even compare this to a kia... hell I wouldn't compare any car to a kia... cept maybe a Cavaler but thats another story. just my two cents

b4z · January 2004

Should do okay in the 300 because the Mercedes sourced 5 speed is much more efficient than Chrysler's FWD transaxle.
More hp will get to the ground.

b4z · January 2004

I think it refers to the inside of the shell not the outside.

fuzzywuzzy · January 2004

Not to put the 300 down, but you'd be happier with the G.

cjs2002 · January 2004

probably, but I just don't want to get the G and end up liking the 300 C better. I'd rather wait and look and make sure because it is a big investment for me being my first actual car payment.

james138 · January 2004

The G may be a better car, but I like the 300c styling much better. Wait and test drive both.

Chrysler 300/300C

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