Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Buick LaCrosse
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Of course for '06 ABS will be standard on CX and CXL also.
If the 3.6 was to go on the CXL I would think that magnasteer would be standard on the CXL. Again the cars would be virtually identical and no need for one of them.
thanks, gone a year and I start to forget.
2 things I want as well as the fog lights. I would go CXS, the CXL is not a CXS with a 3.6L, there is much more there.
I think the CXL would be worthy of the 3.6L with the CX still offering base level value. Even if GM had to add a few hundred to the CXL base price it would be fine.
First the differences between them are engine, fogs, full range traction control, magnasteer, suspension tuning, dual exhaust, 17's and gearing (and the rear label!) Lets assume 2006 and ABS is standard on both.
The delta in price is $3000 - $600(ABS) = $2400.
Are you saying that a CXL should have the 3.6 w/o dual exhaust, 17's, full range traction control and magnasteer?
I guess I cannot see a performance engine in a car w/o dual exhaust, full range traction control, magnasteer and 17's. Maybe you could drop the 17's but the car looks so much better and 17's should be standard on the CXL no matter what.
Next you mention a few hundred extra for the 3.6L? Believe me if it was only that much all the old engines would be gone. 3.6L has an all aluminum block and heads, expensive valve train and more to make it super quiet. Camcord charge about $1500 to go from an expensive OHC L4 to an expensive OHC V6. The price is about $1000-$1500 for the 3.6L over the 3.8. So $100 for fogs, $50 for full traction control, $150 for magnasteer, $100 for duals, $500 for 17's. Adds up to ~$2400.
That's either one heck of an engine, or there is a big diff in equipment -- and I conclude that it isn't the same car with a different engine after checking out the equipment list.
I repeat:
The LaCrosse needs its configuration and pricing revised.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
You remind me of someone I used to know . Nice to see you again. ;-)
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I don't think ABS costs $600, that's what they charge and I don't think the 3.6L costs $2400 more than the 3800 either. Yes it's more expensive to make but the LaCrosse also has a higher than needed sticker, especially in the US. I think the 3.6L could be added to the CXL with a little additional $ in the MSRP.
Higher than needed sticker price? I guess you can price a couple ways. One is to add a percentage for profit over cost. The other is to figure out what volume you want and then price according to competition. Since the domestics do have at least a $1000 cost penalty over the transplants you would end up at least $1000 over the competition to make the same profit they do. This would be for case 1. Of course the LaCrosse was and cannot (plant capacity) build at the same volume as the Camcords. Therefore you can price over the Camcord and take the lower volume. I think you are right and that the volume is not where GM wants it. Therefore a lower price is probably needed to get the sales up. Hopefully for '06 it will get on the value pricing strategy and get a lower price with the incentives rolled in like the some of the trucks have gone to.
Of course all the above pricing is one reason why GM is in trouble. They have a built in american disadvantage. They have been in this country a long time and have to pay for their employees and retirees. Transplants have none of that. There are not many companies left in this country over 40 years old. Many are now going bankrupt and their retirees are losing most of their pensions. Just the way it is I guess. Cheaper for overseas and to start new.
Other countries have healthcare and pensions handled by government. That along with the artificial exchange rate gives an advantage to the foreign companies in value as well in pricing--just like when they dumped goods into the US markets in the 80s just to keep their workers working.
Steel if related to auto building--so I hope this is on topic. Especially since in the Can Gm lose Billions discussion is lots of talk about GM going bankrupt in some way to escape contracts and pension obligations (and taxpayers pick them up).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
:sick:
Instead of financing pension funds, foreign companies are paying higher payroll taxes and other taxes to cover the government pensions. More or less the same with health expenditures. Health care is much more expensive in US than in practically any foreign country, but this is named "inefficency".
I don't know what the answer is, but part of it IS product. I looked at LaCrosse. I did end up buying an "American" car--a Ford Five Hundred. The reason I didn't replace my 00 Impala LS with a LaCrosse or an Impala was exactly what you are talking about above...content. I didn't like the omissions Mr. Lutz and company have made from the Impala, and I couldn't believe the omissions I found on the LaCrosse. Even the Five Hundred has some amazing ones (just that *I* can see--a Ford Taurus engine in a NEW 3800 pound AWD car--the new engine won't be ready for at least another year from now, prop rod for hood, no marker lights on interior of doors, no visor extenders, no glove box light, etc.).
I still bought the Five Hundred. Many others have gone on to so-called foreign pastures. Two things are at work here. It is not just cost/lack of features. It is also product.
Is the LaCrosse a great product that will, as Mr. Lutz invited comparisons, compete with a Lexus? Each potential buyer answers that question when they do or do not buy a LaCrosse. Or, more importantly, this fall, a Lucerne.
Buick, and GM's, future depends on those answers as much as, if not more than, resolution of the cost problems.
Does the 500 have lighted steering wheel buttons? Another omission for Accord but it may have been added in 05.
I am seriously interested in what was in the 500 and not in all LaCrosse models? Were you looking at the two higher models?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
b. What else did I seriously look at? The Mazda6 and Subaru Legacy/Outback. Both rejected due to being too small in the back seat and too noisy.
c. The Ford has automatic door locks and headlamps (though NOT daytime running lights, sigh), and the steering wheel controls? I am not sure whether they light up or not... I think they do but do not swear to it! All I know is after 23,000 miles plus, it sure hasn't been a problem if they don't. Now I have something to look at after dark tonight!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I really, really wanted to buy another GM car...but it was not to be. Perhaps a Lucerne?
Lucerne is a disappointment only in the engine department with no 3.6L. Not sure what kind of mileage the V8 will get, but it will probably be priced out of my reach.
the above link takes you to another independent quality rating. Lacrosse is under large cars and Camcord under mid but:
886 500 (large segment average 868)
886 Maxima (large segment average 868)
883 300 (large segment average 868)
875 G6 (midsize segment average 852)
874 LaCrosse (large segment average 868)
853 Camry (midsize segment average 852)
852 Accord (midsize segment average 852)
Now all the above cars were above or at average in their segment so they are not dogs but it does show how the domestics have this quality issue behind them on the new models. These are October/November bought vehicles so they are brand new models on the domestics and older models on the transplants. The domestics scores will only go up as they fix the early quality bugs.
My parents bought a LeSabre 2 years ago. Still only one issue, a sticky door handle. They love the car.
I cannot stress this enough, the CXS is a different car than the two lower versions. We test drove a CXL before the purchase and could notice a difference immediately. I had the CX for a full 24 hours and really got to notice the differences since I had become so familiar with our car. First, there is a huge difference in power delivery. Yeah, the 3800 is fairly powerful, but the feel (and bonus sounds) of the 3.6 is a marked improvement. The only way I can think to describe such an intangible perception is the 3.6 feels like an electric motor. You push the pedal, you go. Very little lag time between the two.
The feel of the suspensions is as different as the motors. My daily driver before the LaCrosse was a Camaro. Yeah, babies do that to you. The seat of the pants impression of the two lower models made me think "Grandfathers Car". As a 34 year old who is a little embarrassed to tell people I drive a Buick, I have to say I truly enjoy driving the CXS. On a particularly twisty route into Napa wine country, I completely quieted the little voice in my head pushing doubts about buying this car. Again, perception is hard to put into words, but I love the luxury/sport feel of this car.
I do have a few complaints about the car though. First, all of the commercials trumpet the QuietTuning. Yes, the car is very quiet, but that serves to amplify the typical GM squeeks I was hoping to get away from. I've got an intermittent squeek/rattle in the vicinity of the center air vents. Nothing bad, but at only 3200 miles, it pisses me off. Second, the location of the oil filter illustrates lack of cohesion in design. There is no way to remove the oil filter without dumping oil down the side of the block directly onto a frame section with A/C tubing and a wire loom on top of it. I don't like the mess, and I'm concerned about what oil will do to the cable in the loom over time. I'm a "do it yourselfer" and would have appreciated the engineer actually getting their hand in there and seeing what a stupid arrangement this is.
Everything else is all positive. The leather seat just keeps getting better and better with time. Note for those with child car seats- - the swoopy lines of the roof line make getting the car seat in and out slightly more difficult. Again, not that bad.
Hope this helps somebody
Kevin
~alpha
I bought my Intrigue when I was 31 (I'm 36 now). Everyone thought I was nuts buying a "OLDS" but I am never one to follow the crowds to Honda or SUVs or whatever. Buicks were not "old people cars" in the day of the Grand National or the 80's Regals so I never see them that way. Enjoy the car and keep us updated. I have an eye on he CXS for my Intrigue replacement.
You can see this data at this web site. Takes a little work but you can pick any car you want and compare. Pretty cool how it works.
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/jdpa_ratings/FindJdAwards.jsp
Now as far as how short term quality relates to long term quality. They are directly related. I am afraid I cannot get the data anymore though and it does not show up on the JD power website for some reason. But I believe the Buicks did better than Toyota in the long term data in recent years.
But new data is coming out tomorrow and we will see!!!
As has been stated, the CXS has a different engine, different suspension tuning and different steering. It's the steering I notice the most. I used to own a 2001 Intrigue GLS and loved how it drove. I would often rent Buick Century's and noticed I drove them much more slowly and deliberately than my Intrigue. I finally figured out it was the steering - the ratio was noticibly slower, forcing me into "old man mode". As I understand, the CXS has an Intrigue steering ratio and the CX and CXL has the Century ratio.
I'm not saying this is necessarily bad - I like the quicker steering, but not everyone might - sounds like you appreciate it, too.
I played with the JD power site a bit more. If you look at the 2001 Century, Accord, Camry for long term dependibiliyt it shows Accord, Regal and Century tied and Camry was quite a bit worse. I do know that for 2001 and beyond a concerted effort was made to improve the quality of the Regal and Century and they improved tremendously for the short term quality measures beating the Camcord. The long term should also show this improvement.
There is not data of 2002 long term dependibility yet.
this is a GM new release on how GM cars did in the latest JD Power Initial quality.
"Buick LaCrosse Highest-Ranked All-New Redesigned Launch Vehicle; Buick Century Highest in Initial Quality among Vehicles Built in North/South America"
When I hear people trash GM quality it makes my blood boil because while they may have had some bad apples in the past, their quality over the past few years has risen sharply in every way.
How "all new" was the last Avalon? How about the latest version? Just Camry's in new clothing. How about the Lexus ES300/330? Again Camry's. At least the LaCrosse has a new engine. Whoops that was in a Cadillac!!
Same with just about every new car that comes out. Can anyone give examples of any "all new" vehicles out there in the last couple years? The G6 is an Epsilon so it is not all new. Solstice looks to be all new but no, it has some parts that were on other cars. Darn. Anyone help here? maybe the 300? I do not know. How about the 500? Mustang?
In my opinion, the 05 Avalon is a good deal more ALL NEW than the LaCrosse is.
~alpha
I see websites even calling the Saturn Relay on its aging Venture/Lumina APV chassis "All-New!"
All-new is now a worthless term.
To me the largest issue is the basic chassis or platform of the car. When this is changed, you have, essentially, a different car
When talking all new I think the most important comparison is to the last generation of that model. I think a good example is the current Malibu. It was not the first to use the chassis, but it is a completely different car from the '97-03 generation.
Under my suggestions, the Lacrosse is not all new, but it is significantly re-engineered and my experience is that it is much improved over the models it replaces, something that doesn't always happen in a re-design. ( think Honda Civic and Nissan Maxima)
Of course some people like to discredit domestics no matter what and they are usually the same people who will forgive a Toyota engine sludge issue as just an anomaly.
BTW, I think the Malibu analogy was spot-on. THAT is/was an all new vehicle, IMO.
Vanman1, you state "Lacrosse is all new aside from the base engine and the platform." those are some pretty major components. That's like saying a home is brand new because it has new siding and some interior renovations.
Frankly, your posts frequently lack objectivity, and I think its insulting that you think "people like to discredit domestics no matter what". Here's a thought- how bout people favor better vehicles over lesser ones, and in many cases, domestics arent the better ones. There are many domestic designs that have a good deal of merit and competitive advantages over others, its just that the General doesnt produce many of them. The LaCrosse is a good car at a too high a price competing against better cars in a very croweded segment.
~alpha
Century (Oshawa plant 2-best in America)
Impala (Oshawa plant 1-2nd best in America)
Grand Prix (Oshawa plant 2-best in America)
LaCrosse (Not all new but significantly upgraded :P )(Oshawa plant 2-best in America)
somewhere below:
Camry
Accord
Also the platform is updated with front of dash sandwiched metal for quietness.
The W platform is a good platform. It has a front suspension almost identical to Camry/Lexus. It now has an all new aluminum cradle. The worst thing is that styling is somewhat constrained due to the need for a longer front overhang than what is "stylish" today. The 3.8L is significantly updated for smoothness and quietness.
Just the facts, man, just the facts.
If you have a subscription to the online Wall Street Journal, you should be able to find the article at the link below (make sure there are no spaces in Web address). Or, you can just do a search on articles with the word Honda in it, and choose the Powers report.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB111643165721937012-search.htmlvql_string=honda+%3Cin%3E%28- - article%2Dbody%29&collection=wsjie/archive
Completely agreed, and GM should be lauded for nailing the quality of this vehicle from the get-go.
~alpha