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Buick LaCrosse
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Comments
I love the 3800 in my Grand Prix GT, I'll take it over a 4 cyl. of anykind. In fact I used to have a 4 cyl. Accord and this is much better for the same money.
I actually owned a 99 Regal GS (kept it for less than 2 years because I could not stand all of the dash board and other rattles). I could not see getting excited about moving on to a CXS, which has gobs less torque.
I would also note the Accord offers a hybrid, which according (no pun intended) to CR, does 0-60 in 6.9 sec and gets 25 mpg in mixed driving (compare to LaCrosse in previous posts).
that's exactly the point i was trying to make! some posters are strongly implying from JDPowers results that GM scored very well in "quality". i'm simply stating that JDPowers was measuring just one aspect of quality.
it's just a matter of getting the word out. if GM's market share for sedans continues to slide i'm sure it will have nothing to do with product.
based upon the vastly improved sonata and the upcoming azera it's hyundai that stands to benefit the most from the "word" getting out.
If there are more and more companies making cars, then each company in a particular type of car is going to sell fewer; i.e., the pie is being cut into more pieces. Adding Hyhonda to the mix will take away sales from all competitors although in differing degrees.
I've noticed a lot of Hyhonda products in our area in the 4-door sedan sizes that Accord, Camry, Malibu, 500 are each aiming at. They are getting sales from somewhere. We'll see how the durability works out.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
my point was that the lacrosses and other new sedans from GM are having little impact on the market unlike what the new sonata may do.
what's a hyhonda? do you know about a merger between honda and hyundai that's in the works? oh dear, i hope not.
you make a good point about the pie getting cut into more pieces.
I see Hyundai as a serious competitor to Honda just as Toyota and Honda are sometimes called ToyHon or vice-versa.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
just like that hyundai has leaped frog cars such as the the malibu and impala to become serious competitors of honda and toyota? :P
i have a hunch the low pricing of the sonata will take some sales from GM and the upcoming azera looks like a lacrosse type car.
and there's the upcoming fusion from ford. and an early release of the new camry next year. this segment seems to be brutal.
Your '84 is also 20 years ago and that is about when the japanese were finally starting to build quality cars. America had no competition and they built what they wanted. It was also a major time for change since the gas crisis caused the American companies to scrap their large cars and reengineer a fleet of smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles.
Please take a look at the comments of actual buyers of LaCrosse's and give Buick another chance. I feel you will be quite happy with the car if it is the type of vehicle you like to drive.
Whether people like the LaCrosse or any other car is another story. I didn't ever say LaCrosse is the best car in it's class.
In the end, I am not sure why you post here as you have no interest in the LaCrosse. Constructive posts would certainly be more appreciated.
When i read your dictates about GM being #1 (or was it #2) in "quality" based upon JD Powers latest initial quality survey i feel compelled to retort and elaborate on what is meant by quality.
This is the same survey where the Hummer's poor gas mileage was considered a problem by its owners. from James Healey (USA Today auto writer) chat on Friday "JD Power's IQS is based entirely on owner responses to a survey. Whatever an owner considers a problem is a problem. There is no independent testing or evaluation"
Sorry you don't find my posts constructive. I state my position and do my best to illustrate my reasoning for having it.
Maybe it's the repetitive negativity.
>don't find my posts constructive.
That's the same as problems here, on the Accord discussions, Pilot discussions, Camry discussions, LeSabre Discussions. If someone is dissappointed with something about the car, it's a problem; big to them albeit, minor to others, albeit.
>compelled to retort and elaborate on what is meant by quality.
JD and others seem to have a definition of quality already.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Well put and I fully agree. Why anyone posts to a site for a car they have no interest or desire for, and only to talk up and promote other vehicles is rather interesting. Having recently traded an Acura TL in for a CXS, and having followed the TL site, most posts were from owners who spoke of their ownership experience with the car, both positives and negatives. Some were happy with their decision, others were not, and if not, expressed their desire that their next purchase would be another make. The common thread was that their interest in the brand was from their ownership experience, or in their interest to pursue information about the car to help determine if they want to buy one. I did not recall any GM owners however, consistently posting in the TL site about lack of quality in Acura cars. And if anyone checks the problems and issues section of the TL board, one will find they have their share of issues.
GM has been talking about making there cars more value priced. I would forsee a price drop for '06 on all their models with prices closer to the employee discount, with incentives used a bit more rarely or less $$.
Everyone is free to express his or her opinion in any of our discussions as long as the expression is done in accordance with the Membership Agreement - i.e., topical, civil, without profanities or unacceptable promotions, etc. (Full details available in the link on the left side of the page as well as the link to our Rules of the Road at the top.)
Everyone is ALSO free to - and expected to - ignore those posts they find irritating for whatever reason.
No one is free to tell anyone who may or may not post here except for the administrative staff.
If any of you have a problem with a post, your recourse is to email the host of the discussion, NOT take it upon yourself to tell someone he or she is not welcome to contribute. All discussions name the host and provide a link to the host's profile (which contains the host's email address) at the top of each page.
If any of you have any questions about any of this, feel free to email me. Otherwise, stick to the subject and let the host do the hosting.
Thank you.
I found the TL in my comparison drive to have an unacceptable ride for Michigan roads. Really bad ride. Seemed to handle well but I could not put it thru a good road course. Of all the midsize vehicles out there I put the TL at the top for my kind of styling. A bit sporty but not overdone like the 300M. Hey maybe that would be a good thread to start?
Interesting that the Acura site gives a slight advantage in comparably equipped price to CXS. The CXS comes up short on rear HVAC controls, seat memory, cassette, side seat airbags, HID's, memory mirrors, 30 hp, 235 tires, 5 speed, (they are incorrect on the other items I believe) so it would seem that if you go by MSRP Acura would have the win. I wonder if there are any other items not available on the TL that are on the CXS like the rear backup sensors and folding rear seat backs that they forgot to mention? Does the TL have tilt and tele steering column? The TL also has a much smaller trunk and a little smaller interior and quite a bit smaller rear seat area.
If you look at the latest pricing though there is quite a price advantage to the buick.
I am a bit confused about the rear seat comfort. I spent hours in the backseat with two in the backseat. Very comfortable. Problem, as they stated, is that the sporty coupe like roofline crowds the head laterally. With the normal two in the back it is great.
I did a quick rear seat dimensional comparison. The LaCrosse is very competitive with the Kia and Altima that it competes with and they are all within an inch one way or the other. The larger 500, 300 and Avalon were more roomy but not by a whole heck of a lot. Shoulder room, which is closest dimension listed to lateral head room ranged from 56.0 to 58.2 with the Avalon the widest and Altima the skinniest. The LaCrosse was in the midd pack.
I really do not think that the LaCrosse or the others are meant to compete with the Avalon. Would like to have seen the Accord, Camry or maybe even an ES300 for a stretch target.
i'm sure there are many posts from posters who have not experience the ownership of the TL on the TL site. this is true of this site also - i would say the vast majority of posters here haven't experience the ownership of the lacrosee. the car is simply too new yet.
i guess i am guilty of promoting other cars over the lacrosse on this thread in an indirect manner. in my opinion the new avalon is what GM wanted the lacrosee to be in terms of how it would impact the market. i wouldn't buy the avalon any more than i would the lacrosse, just an honest observation on my part.
The CXS is a tweener. It is almost a car to its own market. Its ride is so much better than the typical sporty sedans (TL, Maxima, Grand Prix, G35) yet its a bit sportier than a Camry XLE, Avalon (old one), ES330. Good or bad that is where it is at.
To get an overall impression of the quality of cars that is unbiased you need to look at all three and also Consumer Reports customer data.
On a second note, why did they do without the SC engine for this car? I really miss all that torque during initial acceleration. The Lacrosse isn't slow but the Regal was MUCH quicker off the line.
As far as the SC. It would have been easy to put it in. Lots of pressure to use it because it was in the plant already and in the architecture. However for Buicks place at GM, a bit more premium, the OHC 3.6L was the way to go. Read some of the above comments and read the auto mags. They lambast Buick for using the old 3.8L. I hate to see the complaints if they had the 3.8SC instead of the 3.6L that is also used in the base cadillac.
I love the 3.8L SC for its raw power and HP would be around 255 like the Grand Prix but it is not quiet nor refined enough for a top end Buick
Thanks for the post 62vetteefp
steve
As for the Avalon, it's not really a competitor, it's a full size car. The upcoming Lucerne would be a direct competitor. LaCrosse is really a large midsize, not a fullsize.
~alpha
LaCrosse should be compared with the Accords, 500's, Altima's and Camrys of the world. It's really a midsize car as was the Regal built on the same platform.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
LaCrosse's major shortcoming is it's relatively large size considering it's internal accomodations, and it gets pretty pricey when bought equipped above it's base model (though with the inevitable steep GM rebates, and now employee pricing to everyone, the actual out the door price may be relatively good) Avalon also gets pretty pricey when equipped other than its base configuration for that matter, but Avalon does have the same standard high horsepower engine and drive train in it's base model, while Lacrosse does not. I am not arguing that that much power is really needed in a family sedan, but when comparing them, that item does stick out favoring Avalon.
You can tell I've had bad expriences with ToyHon salespeople in the past.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
imidazol-"You always have to consider the attitude of buying at an Avalon store: the addon charges, well, just because we always could add on charges ($495 dealer/doc fee?) and people would buy; the low trade-in value, because, well, you're trading in a piece of junk and we're selling a quality foreign brand product; the lack of reduced pricing in negotiations, well, because we don't need to do that to sell our product when people just drool to purchase our failure-free cars. You can tell I've had bad expriences with ToyHon salespeople in the past."
Operative word being "past". No, things arent roses at the ToyHon dealerships, but with the advent of the consumer information age and internet, its much easier to go in and get what you want. Our last Toyota purchase experience was without drama or add-ons, and at an extremely good price. Besides, you dont have to live with the salesman, but you do have to live with the vehicle you purchase.
~alpha
I just wanted to point out to alpha that from a vehicle size standpoint, it is definitely valid to compare Avalon to LaCrosse. Current Avalon, though much improved from a styling and probably a handling standpoint from the previous generation, will still never be on my radar screen as it is pricier than what I would be willing to pay, even in its base configuration. One could argue that Toyota is stepping on their Lexus line with the current Avalon, and that is a valid point, in my opinion.
LaCrosse could potentially be on my list for future vehicles, however GM is just doing too much trying to prolong that aging platform and really needs to develop new, more space efficient configurations, even if based on the old platform--ie raise the roof line and seats to obtain more room in the same or shorter length vehicle, as virtually all the competition is doing these days.
Remember though that dealers are independent business's and the manufacturers have very little control over them. In fact the dealers sometimes can push the OEM's around.
The press have asked why GM has not followed thru on all their vehicles with the lower value pricing. But how do you do a price sticker drop in the middle of a model year? One way is to call it employee pricing and send new window stickers to the dealers for all cars on the lots and this is what they did. I bet we will see lower stickers coming from the factory of '06.
Again the LaCrosse is a mid size car. Yes, due to its architecture and styling it is not volume efficient. It is not a high roof car. It does have a longer overhang in the front. The Avalon is also more than a Camry. It is stretched in many dimensions and is larger than the Camry.
I still think the Lucerne is more of a direct competitor than the LaCrosse. LaCrosse is to compete with Camry, Lucerne with Avalon. The LaCrosse starts in Camry 4 cyl territory, about $8-10K less than an Avalon.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=105147/pageId=63250'
Camry is 189.2" long, but has a bigger trunk than Avalon, hard to figure that out.
Avalon has about the same headroom as LaCrosse but an inch more shoulder room. Does not seem that much bigger except the legroom is 3" more.
Avalon looks like the better packaging untill I can get a LaCrosse for under $20K and the Avalon is over $30K.
Interestingly, this month's Car and Driver compares midsize sedans and finds the Avalon to be best, with the LaCrosse well down the list....
The Lucerne will undoubtedly start around the same price as the LeSabre (around C$35,000) which will make comparing a V8 Lucerne and an Avalon a much better and fairer match. That's my 2 cents.
A lot more boring Accords/Camrys/Impalas/Regals/Centurys etc. are sold than sporty vehicles.
Buick's biggest car should be compared to Toyota's biggest car. I cannot understand why no publication is willing to compare the Lacrosse to other high end midsize cars.