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Buick LaCrosse

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  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Currently I would prefer the 3800. Until the new 3.6l prove to be reliable, and/or till GM will fix the almost unavoidable "infant illness". However, consumers always want more choice. I would like if the supercharged version of 3800 would be available, and am not interested at all in the bench seats; on the other hand, some people with bigger family wants to have a bench seats combined with the new engine...

    Personally, I am thankful to more curious people, who like to test new technology. I will need a new car in 2.5 to 4 years only, and will have "free ride" on their experience, would it be positive or negative.
  • drwilscdrwilsc Member Posts: 140
    My point is, what does GM gain by withholding the combination of 6 seater and 3.6 liter? Does it save them money? There ARE going to be some people who need 6 seats but are more attracted to the 3.6 liter engine. I am one. The point made about engine availability may be a good one. Has anyone heard of the 3.6 eventually trickling down to the lower trim lines (CX and CXL) like the 3.5 did in the Intrigue?
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    I would take the 3.6L over the 3800 any day of the week, and not only because it is DOHC and it has more power. The 3800 has a heavy iron block, which makes a car feel nose-heavy and not balanced.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    I do not have access to any rumor mills. Just a common sense: new engines are developed to replace old ones ultimately, not to supplement them forever.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I think there are some upcoming federal (U.S.) regulations (2007? 2008?) for which it would be expensive/difficult to adapt the 3800. Hence GM's plan to move to the 3.5/3.9 pushrods on the low end, and the 2.8/3.6 DOHC on the medium end (some cars that have blown 3800's, like the GTP, are rumored to get the 5.3L V8 in their next incarnation).
  • bennycheckbennycheck Member Posts: 43
    The new 3.6L will be used in alot of cars and SUVs and mini vans in the future. It was developed as a Global engine to be used in Europe, Australia, North and South America. It can be mounted transverse, inline, mid, and rear and can be adapted for front, rear, and 4 wheel drive vehicles. It can also be bored to deliver alot of power and has veriable valve timing.
         As far as the 3.8L engine goes, it's a great motor but is out of date by todays standards. I'm with Yurakm. I think the 3.6L will be standard in all the midsize GMs in a few years. It's lighter, delivers more horsepower and torque, and should be just as reliable as the 3.8L. Of course only time will tell but GM built his engine to be the best V6 in the world.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Member Posts: 489
    You can have the 3.4. I've suffered head gasket problems with this engine in my Silhouette and the engine is woefully underpowered for this size car. I guess this engine will be gone soon -can't come too soon to suit me. The 3.6 sounds nice.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I have a 3.4 and I havent had any problems, nor do I find it underpowered for the Alero. Of course in the year 2004 I would like to have more hp because all the midsize sedans are offering 200-260hp, but the engine is fine for my needs.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Member Posts: 489
    It would be fine for an Alero - probably would be OK for my Malibu, but it is not OK for a Silhouette/Montana/Venture . These cars are lots heavier than an Alero. I didn't have a problem till 84,000 miles, but the head gasket would have run about $1200 if I hadn't had an extended warranty. This one repair more than paid for the $800 Protection Plan.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    for the sedans, it's fine to have the pushrods, but the heavier vans need modern DOHC engines that give more power.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    since GM's pushies one good attribute seem to be good low end grunt, i believe just the opposite.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Member Posts: 489
    I've always considered passing power in the 50-70 MPH range more important then low end pickup from a light. My Silhouette (3.4 engine) and my Malibu (3.1) lack passing power. My Deville (Northstar 275 HP) has no problem at all -neither do my friends V-6 Camrys. GM needs to get horsepower up to 220 and more or they will continue to be beat out by Japanese cars.
  • ensoccer589ensoccer589 Member Posts: 26
    anyone know how much they'll be going for and when they'll be on sale (if they aren't already). in the market 4 a car and im just curious...
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    Most of that info is good, but there are still some typos. Don't flip out when you see that the 3.6L only has 225 lb-ft.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Somewhere else in GM site I saw 233 lb*ft, not 225 lb*ft. The numbers are not so different, and the both are way too low comparing to 280 lb*ft easy available from the predecessor of LaCrosse - the 8-year old Regal GS. GM substantially weakened the LaCrosse 3.6l engine comparing with the Cadillac version.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    They weakened it because they didn't want to outdo Cadillac. Sort of like how they're reluctant to increase the warranty on the Aveo to the typical Korean 5/60 since Cadillac only has a 4/48 warranty on its models. Also the Regal GS achieved high numbers through Turbocharging the engine, while the 3.6 is not turbocharged. It'd be interesting to turbocharge the 3.6 though.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    And they wonder why their market share is nowhere near what it once was? GM's competitors are the other auto companies. When GM thinks its own divisions are COMPETITION, it shoots itself in the foot.

    Dumb. Really dumb.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    I also think that GM detuned the 3.6l engine to not "dilute the Cadillac brand". As if they can drive those, who want a Regal GS power, to CTS. Well, I guess than they will drive more people out, e.g. to Nissan.

    Concerning turbo/supercharging 3.6l: I would not do it at home nor at performance shop. The aftermarket mods are difficult, expensive, and would reduce reliability of engine and transmission. The cars supercharged at factory, e.g. Regal GS and GP GTP, have a lot of parts beefed up. In addition to heavy duty engine and heavy duty transaxle, they have: more powerful fuel pump, different fuel lines, different intake manifold, different software (PCM), etc., etc.

    A stock blower is a different story. It is much easier to accomodate the necessary mods at factory. Plus GM can better engineer and test the design and to stay behind its products. GM simply somewhat better know its own cars, and have much more financial resources than small aftermarket companies.
     
    I have read that currently GM is playing with double-turbocharged 3.6l engine. It produces 400 hp; this is deep in the Corvette territory. I have serious doubts, though, that the engine will see market at all, even more that it will be available with LaCrosse.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    And so GM should not be terribly surprised when I, whose last three cars have been GM products, somewhat saddened by their decontenting and diluting products so as to move you up their line, buy a most honorable (in this case) F O R D.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I own a Cadillac SRX with the 3.6L V6.
    It takes Mobil 1 synthetic oil which
    is about a $80 oil change.

    I am wondering if the 240hp. Buick version will
    have a lower redline and take regular oil. Hence the lower hp rating.

    Any comments?
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Just wanted you guys to know that I am enjoying the 3.6L in the SRX. This things really moves out.
    But it should with a 3.73 rear gear and a 3.42 1st gear in the tranny.

    Also I had both left bank camshafts replaced at 1300 miles. They were not machined properly and the cam followers were making some noise as the contacted the surface of the cam.

    It is evidently an easy job to replace the cams. Unbolt them and put new one in. TYhey have a tool that ensures that the timing remains the same.

    No metal shavings in the oil and all is well at 5500 miles.

    The dealership had another SRX the week before with the same problem.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    The FWD setup, stricter exhaust settings, 4-speed auto, and lower redline all contribute to its lower rating.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    $80 oil change! Wow!

    How much oil takes the 3.6l engine? More than 15 quarts? And what filter it uses?

    Mobil 1 costs about $20 for 5 quart jig at Walmart. Pure One filter $6 at Pep Boys. Labor $12 or so at Chevy dealer, or about the same with coupon at Firestone. Total about $40 for Regal GS.

    The Buick dealer who sold us the Regal changes oil for life for free, and throws a free car wash. However, I hate how they treated me, nor cannot stand waiting 2-3 hours at the dealership.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    You can subtract couple of reasons.

    - The Regal GS transmission used to take 280 lb*ft, and the same transmission takes as much torque and 260 hp with 2004 Gran Prix GTP.

    - Lower redline explains lower power, but does not explain lower torque.

    I also have doubt concerning the other two reasons.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    looking for Regal GS power yet can't afford to buy a Cadillac CTS or don't like it, will be heading to other dealers for other cars,like Nissan's Alitma 3.5 and Honda's Accord EXV6.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    can't afford to buy a Cadillac CTS or don't like it

    There is another argument against Cadillac: it is kind not modest to drive one, especially when most of colleagues do not. A wrong statement, like "I have more money, than you". Buick does not offend, though.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I would like to see a LeSabre sized Buick with RWD and a strong engine. Properly equipped, I might well be first in line....At least put AWD in it if not RWD...
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    I think rear wheel drive is regaining popularity, but it may be the next round of redesigns before they are really common again.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    When exactly is "the next round of redesigns?" Ten years from now? Twenty?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    At Chrysler, it's today. And for AWD, for Ford, production begins July 12.

    GM, where are you with your large AWD and RWD cars in other than the Cadillac lines? I can't hear you!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Chrysler: Now
    Ford: July, summer 2004
    GM: When? When? Come on. When are we getting AWD and/or RWD cars?
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I bought 6 qts. Mobil 1 @ Advance Auto for about $27(?) and the dealer provided the filter and charged me $17.93.
    So about $45.
    They originally wanted close to $80.

    As much as I like the La crosse I just can't go back to FWD again. Too many compromises.

    Hope Buick does well with it.
    They do need to price it properly out of the box.
    This instant rebate thing with GM borders on the absurd.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Thanks!

    The rebate game GM is playing is absurd, sure. They are losing a lot of potential customers - those who do not know the rules of the game, and are filtering out GM cars even before starting shopping seriously.

    However, some flexibility in pricing depending on season, etc. is very reasonable. For example, price goes up $1000 in May, returns to normal after July 04, decreases $1000 in October, and another $1000 for leftover after December 15. The current rebates permit the flexibility.

    Additionally, the demand for new car designs usually is high. As a rule, for the first for 2-3 months, but sometimes for a whole year or even two. It happened last year with Gran Prix, even while it is rather a modification of the 97-03 model, than a radical redesign. Four years ago GM did not provide any rebate for 2000 Impala. I bought a loaded Regal GS instead, and paid what a loaded Impala LS would cost. Most recently people were buying 300C for $5,000 and even $7,000 above MSRP. Now they are available for $2,000 below MSRP. I expect the same to happen with LaCrosse.

    Personally, I think it would be insane to pay premium for the privilege of being guinea pig. However, it is very reasonable for manufacturers and dealers to capitalize on the widespread insanity.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Is it true the 3.6 requires synthetic oil or is this just an owner's preference? If it requires synthetic, I guess the 3.8 just found a new reason to recommend itself!
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2005&- amp;butID=1&regionID=1&divisionID=4&vehicleID=776&amp- ;type=0
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    Thanks for the link big daddy.

    Noted so far: OnStar is standard, and can't be deleted except on fleet orders. That sucks.

    Maximum torque on the 3.6L VVT is 225@2000 rpm. Not much torque (about 63 ft-lb per liter), but it comes on really, really low.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    thanks for the ordering info.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,262
    I thought Cadillac included free maintenance on their cars?
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I saw one in person at the autoshow in motion event in Philly and I can say the interior of the car looks very nice. clearly the best looking midsize interior GM has done and definitely on par with the camry and accord. The car they had featured the 16" polished wheels and it was crimson in color. They also had a G6 on display.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    You mentioned the 16" wheels...GM picked nice wheels for this car (pics in ordering guide, linked previously in the thread). Even the wheel covers look nice. I'm glad they didn't go with the overdone wheels that were on the auto show version in the winter.

    -Andrew L
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I like them on this car too. Unlike some other cars, they're not overdone.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    No, but the warranty is 4yr/50,000 miles.
    2 oil changes with Mobil 1 are about $90 so the synthetic really doesn't cost that much more.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    According to Mr. Lutz at the unveiling ceremony (see video on Lacrosse site), 90% of max torque (225 ft-lbs) is available from 1600 rpm all the way up to 6000 rpm. Very flat indeed.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    GM only certifies discrete engine/transmission combinations. It's possible the transmission is the limiting factor that diminishes the potential of the 3.6 engine as compared to the rear-drive CTS. As always, the proof will be in the test drive...
  • austinman7austinman7 Member Posts: 313
    Hello,

    I'm a former Regal (1996) owner interested in this next generation Buick.

    Looking at the specs on the link provided by bigdaddy, I didn't see any mention of sunroofs. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. I'm not a big fan of these, and would prefer a model without a sunroof.

    Also -- a weak point on the interior of my old Regal was rear seat headroom, and I notice a dropoff of more than two inches from front to rear headroom in the LaCrosse. Has anyone sat in one of these to check headroom?

    Do we have any idea when these will be at our local Buick dealers?

    Forgive me if these questions have been answered, and just refer me to earlier posts if you like. I haven't been following this thread closely, but am getting more interested in the car.

    Thanks.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    The sunroof is available on all trim levels.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    did you get a short 10 page brochure or a real one? I got a flimsy one from them a few months back. It was more pictures than info.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    http://www.gmfleet.com/us/acquiring/vehicinfo/summaries/BuickLaCr- osse.pdf
  • rerenov8rrerenov8r Member Posts: 380
    both in appearance and lack of WOW features (I think they should have tried to get cooled & heated seats on the option list, as well as NAVI and maybe Blue Tooth, at least to chase away the "blue hair" crowd)

    Hopefully the "in person" viw will be better.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    They chase away the blue hair crowd, they may chase away the only reliable customers that Buick has. Oldsmobile made this mistake. They chased away the old crowd without attracting the new crowd!
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