Buick LaCrosse

bigdaddycoats · October 2004

Overall, it is a pretty positive article. It is not a full test report, but more of impressions of their first drive.

one excerpt-

"Lutz claims: This is the first car that is truly representative of what we want [Buick] to be again." To prove it, he provided a Lexus ES 330 for comparison. The Lacrosse CXS is notably quicker than the ES330 and about as quiet in terms of wind and road noise, but there's more engine noise in the Buick, and its ride is busier. Of course, the fact that any comparison can be drawn at all between a $23,500 to $29,000 Buick and the $32,000 to $39,000 Lexus is promising. Long live the czar!"

alpha01 · October 2004

that the Buick feels substantially quicker than the ES330. For example, Car and Driver timed the 3650 lb. Camry Solara convertible, with the ES's same engine and transmission, at 7.2 to 60, and 7.7 using the Street Start method. Given that the ES is lighter than the Camry Solara convertible, I'd expect a 7 flat run to 60. For the LaCrosse CXS to feel substantially quicker than that, it'd need to be running mid 6s. I wonder if Lutz indeed provided the ES330, or much slower ES300?

~alpha

bigdaddycoats · October 2004

article says 330.

yurakm · October 2004

Read somewhere that LaCrosse CXS accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 6.5 seconds.

Looks reasonable. 1997-2000 Regal GS used to make 0-60 in 6.5 if switched to the performance shift mode; starting from 2001 GM deleted the mode and the numbers dropped to about 7.2 sec. LaCrosse CXS will have much higher final gear ratio than Regal GS.

bigdaddycoats · October 2004

in Car and Driver as well. Write more after I read it.

bigdaddycoats · October 2004

not much of a review, but very positive.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_- id=1596

bigdaddycoats · October 2004

http://www.canadiandriver.com/roadtest/05allure.htm

dan165 · October 2004

Cash price C$24900 (about U$19000) for a Allure CX in the paper this morning. Seems like a good deal for a refined 200hp sendan. Camry should worry a bit I would think.

alpha01 · October 2004

I think GM is the company that should worry, if Allures are already selling for low prices. New models should sell near MSRP for at least a few days after launch, LOL.

~alpha

dan165 · October 2004

I checked and the MSRP is 25200. It's not a big discount at all, just a low MSRP to begin with.

johnclineii · October 2004

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0410/21/g01-308764.htm

and

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0410/21/g03-308794.htm

exalteddragon1 · October 2004

Stupid, but if they are real portholes, then wouldn't they let rain into the engine compartment? I know i sound dumb and all, I just wanna know how they would prevent it? Plastic caps on the insides?
Anywhay I would really like to ask people that are intrerested in this car, no to compare it to a 330. If you do, you will get the latter. The 330 has real wood, a navigation system, and Xenon lights. Also I have seen many around so I know its popular. The Lascrosse looks strange, I have yet to see it in person from from the photos it looks like an old-folks car. I hope you like that (it is probably intended for old folks, though).
The main thing is the interrior. The wood does not look convincing (i agree with Car and driver on this one) and it just seems underwhelming in general. A nav system looks like its missing from the dash aswell. And would the car look tons better if even the fake wood, was on the steering wheel too?
I really like the way the Park Avenue looks. I know the wood is fake, but the way they used it was perfect.
The engine and transmission shouldn't give you any problems though. GM is suually bulletproof in those areas (some 80's caddilac's not included lol).
I guess my real question is, what do you like about the car?

lngtonge18 · October 2004

Are you referring to the BMW 330 or Lexus ES330? Two very different cars, but I'm assuming you are referring to the Lexus. I wouldn't choose the ES330 over the Lacrosse mainly because the Lexus is not an attractive car on the outside and its much more expensive with no incentives. I have no interest in real wood, navigation, or xenon lights. The Lexus has a more luxurious looking interior but the Lacrosse is nice looking as well and can be had for much cheaper. And I definitely don't want a car with wood on the steering wheel. Though it looks nice, its nowhere near as comfortable to grip as a nice softly padded leather wheel.

As for styling, I think the Lacrosse has a clean elegant classy appearance that is much more appealing to me then the ES330. At 25 years old, I hardly think I'm an old person either. I think the Lacrosse fills a nice void left by the Diamante and Millenia by offering an executive grade luxury car at a reasonable price.

johnclineii · October 2004

Whilst you are looking at the ES330, do NOT forget to take insurance into account. The incredible popularity of Lexus, the high cost of replacement parts and the presence of HID lights all work to greatly increase its insurance rates.

The LaCrosse's rates should be based on the old Regal, which are very economical indeed. Just one factor to look at when considering a car purchase...but one that many do not.

exalteddragon1 · October 2004

I guess it just looks boring and... unattractive to me, but everyone has their own sence of style, beauty is in the eye of the behlder yada yada yada ok.

But, well you can't say your at least a little disappointed by the lack of features for this car? I wonder, does it have stability control?

I'm not saying Xenon should be standard, but make both nav and xenon an option, you could attract more customers to the Buick name. Insurance would probably vary on differently equipped models.

So no one knows how those portholes work, eh?

mrrogers · October 2004

I tried to run the numbers for the 2005 LaCrosse at the Edmunds True Cost To Own site, but the model is too new. I was able to run the numbers for the 2004 Buick Regal and the 2004 Lexus ES330. Based on 15,000 miles per year, the five year ownership cost of the Regal is $37,122. That works out to $0.49 per mile. For the ES330, the five year ownership cost is $38,572. That works out to $0.51 per mile.
Even though the Lexus is more expensive to purchase, the superior resale value reduces the cost to own. I would hope that eventually the LaCrosse resale value will be superior to the Regal, but it may take some time.

1487 · October 2004

Yes but the ES330 is a horrible looking car. How can you value resale potential over styling? The Es330 is less attractive than the camry on which its based.

lngtonge18 · October 2004

I'm confused why you are asking about portholes here? The LaCrosse doesn't have portholes. Only the Park Avenue does. I believe the porthole is simply a styling gimmick and does not actually allow air or water to get into the engine bay.

As for features, I'm not disappointed because I think the LaCrosse offers the features that are important to me. By the way, the CXS model does offer StabiliTrak.

johnclineii · October 2004

The talk about portholes is because Buick has indicated the LaCrosse will soon be modified to add the portholes, which are to again become a signature of Buick products.. It was mentioned in one of the cited articles, I believe one that I posted a link to here...

jbm · October 2004

Hi gang, i sat in a lacrosse (I believe it was CXS) at the long island auto show this weekend.

Overall, it was just o.k. I think the overall build quality - in and out - is much better than the Regal GS. But there's really nothing striking about the car (versus the Regal GS, which, at least for the first few model years of its last incarnation, looked 'stealth' and 'young'.

But the car didn't get my me excited. Buick defnitely isn't going for a younger demographic like they (arguably) were targeting with the Regal GS. In fact, I spotted a couple senior citizens just positively *gushing* over the car. but the younger audience just wasn't into it.

-jbm

dan165 · October 2004

I always liked the Regal GS and I think the LaCrosse is a step back in terms of excitement. Inside, the car is several steps up however and the 3.6L is also. Too bad we couldn't have the Regal exterior with the new interior/3.6L.

chavis10 · October 2004

The dealership right next to my job has two silver CXLs. It is a very classy looking car, not sporty, but classy. You can definitely tell the body gaps are tighter than before. It's looks like a quality piece. I'm not really feeling the "Chrome-Tec" 16" rims though. Can't wait to see a CXS with the 17"s. What they need to do is offer the 18"x8" rims from the show car with the 245/45 Goodyears. That made the car truely stand out. Plus, the rims are really pushed out to the corners of the car. Regardless, the interior is hot. It looks very upscale and luxurious. The wood shifter is also a nice touch. I'm anxious to see the acceleration and braking figures once a magazine does a real road test. Buick claims it has an all new Delphi braking system although the rotors seem the exact same size as the Impala's. Some places quote torque at 225 lbs-ft @ 2000 rpm or 3200 rpm while others say 230 lbs-ft. I don't understand why this engine is detuned so much from Cadillac duty- even the Rendevous has a higher output. But hey, this baby has a much better interior than the CTS so I guess it's a fair trade considering the customer base. Hopefully once the incentives kick in, I can have a nice Grey steel or red LaCrosse CSX in my driveway.

chavis10 · October 2004

They should've added Navigation but I'm sure it'll be available later. Xenon is a strech but it would've been nice since the Mercury Montego will offer them.

alpha01 · October 2004

There is so much talk on this board about how much more expesive the ES330 is than the LaCrosse CXS, and if the ES is worth it..

Lets put styling aside, shall we, for a moment?

The ES330 plus VSC, heated and ventilated seats, 6 CD changer, 17 inch alloys, Wood Steering Wheel and Trim, Power Rear Sunshade, Power Adj Pedals, Trunk Mat, Wheel Locks and Cargo Net:

MSRP including freight: $35,419

The LaCrosse CXS plus Stabilitrak, Power Passenger Seat, Heated Front Seats, Upgraded Sound System, Side Curtain Airbags, Power Sunroof, Chrome Appearance Pkg, Trunk Liner, and Carpet Savers

MSRP including freight: $32,840.

(I didnt add Nav or Adaptive suspension to the Lexus or Digital Radio to the LaCrosse to try and keep things even).

Considering that the Lexus has a longer warranty, better side impact protection, higher scoring dealer network, and resale value that will likely be about 20% higher as a percentage of MSRP than the LaCrosse's after 4 years, $2500 doesnt seem like too much of a premium.

~alpha

fredvh · October 2004

Don't forget about higher insurance costs, higher maintenance per hour costs, higher parts cost, higher license plate cost in most states, and lower mpg for the ES330. If one considers the lower CX or CXL instead of the CXS it becomes a much better buy. Resale value means nothing if one keeps the car for 10 years.

1487 · October 2004

IF you want an Es330 than buy one. That seems like the best solution. I am 25 and I have never ever been interested in the ES300 or 330 nor will I ever be. The ES330 is quality car but its more suited to the 60 plus crowd than the Lacrosse. Most ES330s I see are driven by the grey haired crowd and considering the characteristics of the car that is fine. I dont think it's fair to compare the MSRP's of the ES330 to the Lacrosse considering you can probably get a new lacrosse close to invoice price. The price difference between the two cars would probably be $4K - $5K when you take bargaining into account.

bigdaddycoats · October 2004

I also do not understand why the engine has been tuned down so much. GM needs to learn that it is ok for vehicles to have the same engine no matter what division they are in.

I would imagine that if you really wanted you could open the exhaust pretty easily to get some more power.

alpha01 · October 2004

Well, I'm 23, and I beg to differ on this statement: "The ES330 is quality car but its more suited to the 60 plus crowd than the Lacrosse".

I love to find out the average buyer age of each, once the LaCrosse has been out a while.

My biggest caveat with the LaCrosse? The interior can't hold a candle to that of the Lexus.

And someone mentioned the Lexus' "worse MPGs"? The Lexus is rated at 20/29. The LaCrosse is rated WORSE with the 3.6L engine, at 19/28. (check the stats before making claims... always a safer practice)

Hey, Im not the one who started the ES330 comparison... wasnt that Lutz?

Dont get me wrong, I think the LaCrosse is a fine car. My point is that GM has priced it out of contention, IMO-- and chosen its competition not so wisely.

~alpha

lngtonge18 · October 2004

You should know GM's game by now. They artificially charge higher MSRPs and then come out with big rebates. I agree that the CXS is priced a bit too high. However, the CX and CXL are excellent bargains when you consider Malibus and G6s cost just as much. Factor in the guaranteed rebates and thats where my statement comes that the ES330 is more expensive.

There was a time when Malibu Maxxs were selling for 18-19k even though they stickered for 26k. I doubt the LaCrosse will be as heavily discounted, but if I can get a CXL for around 23k, I think thats a darn good bargain.

alpha01 · October 2004

sedan at that price, Ingtonge, I suggest you wait for the next Sonata to come out. More power than the LaCrosse, better styling, (subjective, of course), will have been on sale 8 months overseas, likely better resale value, better warranty, more standard safety equipment...

http://www.hyundai-motor.com/common/html/showroom/e_catalog/nfs01- - - /sonata.html

~alpha

lngtonge18 · October 2004

While I'm a Hyundai fan, the new Sonata would not be on my list based purely on its looks. It looks like an Accord from the rear and that is not a classy design by any stretch. Besides, the Sonata brings to mind a run of the mill family sedan, not an executive class luxury car. That's the XG's job but the current one is not quite to my liking.

My next car will most likely be an 05 or 06 Malibu Maxx. I was very impressed with that car's build quality and how nicely it drove, not to mention the huge amount of gizmos, limo stretch out room, and relative rarity. But I may look into the LaCrosse. It reminds me of a more modern version of my 03 Diamante.

alpha01 · October 2004

The LaCrosse brings to mind an executive class luxury car? Wow. Thats a real stretch. I look at this car and think "Yea, its the Regal turned up a notch".

Basically, you're saying that you expect the Sonata to be a better car, but since it makes you think Mainstream, and reminds you of the Accord, you wouldnt buy it.

Hey different strokes for different folks.

And I agree... the Malibu Maxx is impressive, and a great value. But not so much the interior styling with its spades of monotone.

Too bad you dont live in my area, Ingtonge, theres a dealership that has two brand new unsold 2002 Diamantes, before they mangled the front end. Both have less than 200 miles on the clock, I believe. Huge discounts, as they just keep sitting there, like most of Mitsus offerings. But thats kind of what happens when a vehicle hasnt changed since its intro as a 1997 model...

~alpha

dan165 · October 2004

I seriously doubt a Korean car would have better resale than a Lacrosse. The Lacrosse will be no star when it comes to resale, but Sonata will be the same as the other Hyundais and Kias.

lngtonge18 · October 2004

Have you seen the Maxx with a tan interior? I agree about the gray interior. The sea of same color fabric and plastic is horribly bland and ugly. But the tan interior has 3 different shades of tan and looks very nice and much richer (the fake wood helps too). I have always been a gray/black interior fan but I absolutely love the tan interior on the Maxx. The color combo reminded me of a Lexus, with lower quality of course.

As for my description of the LaCrosse as an executive class entry-lux car, maybe some more explanation is required. The "executive" class term was coined in the mid-90s for entry level luxury cars for aspiring new business men. Those cars included the Millenia, Diamante, 3.2TL, ES300, Catera etc. They are a step up from regular family sedans but not as luxurious as the true luxo cars like the 5 series, e class etc. The Accord/Camry/Altima/Sonata don't fit in this class and are considered mainstream family sedans. The LaCrosse wouldn't fit in the mainstream category and Buicks have always been gussied up Chevys so I think calling the LaCrosse an executive class car is justifiable.

Whether the Sonata will truly be a better car, I don't really know. But it is a mainstream family sedan and those bland style cars just don't interest me. Just like the Malibu sedan isn't on my list, only the Maxx.

alpha01 · October 2004

I see your point regarding executive class in one aspect- the CXS. The CX/CXL are hardly executive machines. No leather, no moonroof, no heated seats-HELL.. no ABS, no side airbags, no traction control. And in the executive class, the LaCrosse seems as though it will pale in comparison to most of the other entries, especially if you're still including the likes of the Acuras, Lexuses, CTS. Against those models, it will compete on price and not much else.

That said, simply because a sedan is a mainstream sedan doesnt mean it is necessarily bland. The newly redesigned Camry SE/SE V6 looks great to me, as does the Altima in all trim lines, as well as the Mazda 6.

~alpha

yurakm · October 2004

LaCrosse wouldn't fit in the mainstream category and Buicks have always been gussied up Chevys

W-bodies span Chevrolet to Buick. The difference between Century and base Impala, or between Regal LS and Impala LS, is more like as between different trims than different models. The main difference is Buick W-bodies of the same generation were available 3 years earlier.

My wife and I have 2000 Regal GS and we like it very much. However, we are doing all maintenance and repairs at Chevrolet dealer, avoiding like a plague the Buick dealership where we bought the car.

1487 · October 2004

MT has a comparison between the avalon, lacrosse, 500 and 300 3.5L in the current issue. I didn't read it but the Buick came in 3rd place, however they didnt have much negative to say about it. Basically they said the styling was dull and the back seat was smaller than the others. The performance numbers werent as impressive as I had expected but they seemed to think the car's handling was much better than previous Buicks.

gearjammer62 · November 2004

I came across an new CXL, in Silver, today. Maybe it was because it had just come off the truck and hadn't been cleaned up yet, but I was underwhelmed.

I also got sticker shock -over $30K, including charging $650 for ABS. I would think ABS would be standard on any Buick. Guess not.

mrrogers · November 2004

Per the GMBuypower website, there is now a $1,000 rebate on the 2005 Buick LaCrosse.
My wife drove a CXS on Saturday. She wants a CXL. The salesman told her he had a CXL in stock, so we took a ride to the dealer. The salesman said he made a mistake. They are supposed to have a CXL in this week.
I did not drive the car, but my wife thought it was too hard a ride for her. She currently drives a 98 Regal LS, and she says she can feel every bump in the CXS. I think the interior is an improvement over the Regal.

dan165 · November 2004

ABS should be standard on Buicks.

I guess they wanted a stripped base though.

austinman7 · November 2004

Well, it seems the LaCrosse is being launched very, very slowly, at least in my town. Saw a CXL the other day, the only LaCrosse they had on the lot. This in early November, after an "October" availability has been advertised.

Anyway, this silver CXL was cleaned up and looked pretty sharp. Had a black leather interior. I liked the exterior design, though it is certainly evolutionary, not revolutionary, and that's probably just fine with many Buick customers. I certainly like it much better than the Regal it replaces.

1487 · November 2004

I went to a nearby dealer and they had one maroon colored CXL model for $28K. Thats all they had. I wouldnt expect to see many on the road anytime soon because the advertising wont kick off until Thanksgiving. I havent see one on the road yet. I guess the east coast is slow to get them from the factory.

The inside is definitely a step up from any other GM midsize car. The doors are very well damped like a european luxury car and the car seemed very quiet with the doors closed, like a tomb.

bigdaddycoats · November 2004

http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_viagra_starbucks_lacrosse/index.htm

venus537 · November 2004

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2004-11-11-bui- ck-lacrosse_x.htm

dan165 · November 2004

I think the CXS is the way to go with this car. Base is just too entry level. I hate plastic wheel covers.

drwilsc · November 2004

I agree. I could not see getting a lower level LaCrosse. The engine is another reason, the 3.6 liter is simply a more powerful, modern engine than the old 3.8. I only wish they made the CXS with the front flip-and-fold seat. I need a car that can seat 6 since I have 4 kids, and they only offer the folding front seat in the lower trims. The CXS is only a 5-seater. Why would they offer that feature on the LOWER trims and not the HIGHER trim? Typical GM.

1487 · November 2004

most potential CXS buyers wouldnt care about seating 6. It was the same way with the Regal GS, it was the sportiest model and it only seated five.

dan165 · November 2004

I can see the 3.6L moving down to the CXL in a year or maybe even becoming standard. 3.8L is a solid mill but it's not a near luxury mill.

yurakm · November 2004

Saw few LaCrosse recently, while visiting Buick dealerships. Not impressed.

A sea of fake wood inside, chrome outside: handles on CX and even more chrome on CXS. Reminds me Russian cars of my childhood: late 50-ths, early 60-ths. Except a real wood was used then. Feels very dated.

BTW, the protruding handles were banned later: they are not safe for pedestrians, many accidents happened, especially in big cities.

My wife is only 43 and she does not remember the old cars. She compares LaCrosse with 1996 Ford Taurus for the general round shape.

We decided to buy a 2004 Buick Regal instead. Very few are left over, and we had to buy it in NY City.

priggly · November 2004

Anyone driven a CXS yet? Just how quiet is it at highway speed? How powerful is the engine? Are the speakers in the Concert III 9-speaker audio system high quality or are they merely the usual paper cone mass market speaker?

Thanks.

Buick LaCrosse

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