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Comments
It looks like synthetic is making no difference on my car.
17 mpg on the first fill-up after the change. Halfway through the next tank, and it looks like I'm still getting 17, maybe 18 max.
I don't know...I got 20 the first few weeks here in Hawaii. The car seems to be getting slightly worse on mileage. I'm now trying to be a little less lead-footed. I'll report back after a few tanks if there's any improvement. I'm going back to my theory of trying to keep the RPMs under 2500 as much as possible, and see if that helps.
Still, the car does run slightly quieter with synthetic, that's for sure. So I'll probably continue as long as I change the oil myself.
I have always blamed GM for some of the problems with this car (ECM, etc.). But it looks like this problem was clearly made by Daewoo BEFORE GM TOOK THEM OVER! It's just not normal to replace the heads on a new car-I don't care what kind of bargain it is. I thought the guy from Mercedes designed this motor. How can you get a screw up of this proportion? When you look at 15 heads replaced at this dealer alone-on cars that are selling that great to begin with-it's a matter of concern! :sick:
I contacted there corporate and argued with them for about two months till they finally replaced my car with a new one.
Guess What - the new replacement is doing the same thing after 5000 miles just like the other one. I called corporate again and i am awaiting the area manger to call me back.
ANY SUGGESTIONS!!!!
OK! Now im angry and i decided to call corporate and demand a new car - finally the area manager contacts me and after a while i got the car replaced.
Yeah!!!! a new car that does not sound like a truck - WRONG!!! after 5000 miles on this new one we are back to square one.
ANY SUGGESTIONS I GIVE UP :mad:
GM needs to forget about this motor and pull one of their reliable "corporate motors" like the 3.4 or something like it! These cars are showing WAY TOO MANY PROBLEMS for people to have confidence in them. Is there anybody who thinks they will get 150,000 miles out of these things?
I'm above 8k now and haven't had a problem yet.
I'm above 8k now and haven't had a problem yet.
I hope you do!
Anyone hear of piston slap and intake manifold gasket failures both causing premature failure on those wonderful GM engines?
I called the customer service line at Suzuki's corporate and spoke with a rep. name Tonya. She said they have no control over MPG and the EPA does the measuring. I asked her if thought my car getting 5 or 6 miles less than advertised was a problem and she said no. I continued to ask if there was anything they could do and she hung up on me.
I have taken other measures to try and improve my MPG no AC, drive slower, drive more consistently, etc.. but with no luck. So, BUYER BEWARE of poor mpg with the Verona.
If anyone would like a spreadsheet of gas usage for the Verona, e-mail me at jfearn@ameritech.net. I have kept detailed records
Dont you think its funny how this is my second 2004 verona with the same problem?
My previous post referred to the GM motors...not the Verona.
Many people have criticized the ECM module on this engine. About the only complaint that I have is that it didn't have coffee ready for me in the morning. What a wonderful driving experience. The car ran great. No stalling, no sputtering, no hard starting. I had pleanty of power even when climbing mountain passes at 8 or 9 thousand ft. I couldn't ask for anything more.
I do use synthetic oil in my engine. I am using a 7500 mile oil change interval. Just the labor, the extended oil drain interval plus the cost of the oil filter justifies the use of synthetic. Now figure that for every 1% increase in fuel economy, you net a savings of $8.15 in fuel consumption over this 7500 mile interval (based on 23 mpg and $2.50 pe gal. fuel costs, if it ever gets that cheap again). Now add the peace of mind knowing that you are protecting your engine with a superior lubricant. Pennzoil dino can cost near $2 a quart at Walmart. They sell Quaker full synthetic for $3.85.
So far my Verona has been great.
Tom
Hell, you are coming out ahead. Tell them to take their time.
Tom
Then we heard how Suzuki dealers had moved the Veronas to the back of the lot and Suzuki was going to discontinue the car. That's garbage.
Now we hear about all of these valve tappet problems and how it is so extensive that Suzuki has issued a TSB concerning it. That's garbage. There is no TSB on Suzuki's site concerning valve tappet noise.
People say that GM should have put one of it's own V-6's in it. I don't think a 60 degree V6 will fit in that engine compartment. Anyone think that may be the reason Daewoo spent so much money developing this inline 6. This car was originally developed and sold to the rest of the world with a 4 banger.
God forbid that I would ever have another GM engine in my car. GM gets most everything correct but one thing. I had a 1991 Grand AM with the quad 4 in it. It had head gasket problems. GM said it was because of new technology. The heads were aluminum but the block was iron. Thermal expansion coefficients. I would have bought that story if it wasn't for my 1980 Ply Champ (Mitsubishi) with aluminum heads and a cast iron block. Never a problem, 156,000 miles and the engine was running strong. Maybe GM was just too proud to learn a little something from Mitsubishi.
Like I said before, this is the closest that I ever want to get to owning a GM car.
Tom
I am really sorry you are "tired" of all the garbage. First of all.... there are many, many people on this board who have spent $15,000.00 plus dollars and are having SERIOUS PROBLEMS with this car. You don't replace heads unless there is a serious issue. All these people with problems...ARE THEY MAKING THEM UP?
It's a shame, the (Verona) is a beautiful car--with many problems. The thing is, after GM (or GM/Daewoo-whatever they are calling themselves) fix the problems, it will probably be a good car. BUT, with the reputaton this car has--people looking at a new car will STAY AWAY...FAR AWAY!! BTW.. you are right about the 2.4 "Quad" motor---it did have head gasket issues. But the 3.1 and 3.4 GM motors have been very reliable "work horses". Ask anybody who has an old Lumina or Corsica.
What many,many people?
Without actually going back, I am sure there have been less than 5 people here with SERIOUS problems (valve tappet noise requiring major work).
Maybe 5 people here having problems getting the early ones with the ECM issue resolved on the first reprogramming try.
The anecdotal evidence here does not by any stretch of the imagination equal many, many people.
The pre-1993 3.1L GM engine was a work horse. Model years 1994-1998 a very large number plus the 3.4L had the intake manifold gasket issue by 120K miles and usually it destroyed the engine as people don't maintain the car and see the signs early. Any used car manager with years taking cars in on trade knows to stay away from that era GM engine unless the new intake manifold gasket has been replaced, just like the Chrysler transmission.
I personally do not think a Verona will ever see these kind of miles. With all the problems, most owners will trade or find out it is economically unpractical to keep them.
The engine has a slight vibration at idle that would be very acceptable in an older four cylinder car but is a surprise in a modern inline six cylinder engine. At any other RPM the engine is very smooth, though quite audible at high RPM. Theengine has a slight clicking sound at idle which is unusual. All our previous cars have had quiet idling engines. The sound has neither improved over time nor gotten much worse.
The looks of the car continue to please and the leather upholstery shows no sign of wear. Body fit and finish are excellent. The white paint does chip easily and I have purchased touch up paint to correct these flaws.
Fuel economy is poor overall. Our best mileage was on one stretch of our trip where we obtained 27 MPG. Normally, suburban driving is less than 20 MPG and often near 18.
The greatest flaw in our car is a poorly developed transmission. Although a five speed automatic would be nice, there are far better four speed automatics than in the Verona. the chief design blunder seems to be an inablility to apply throttle without an immediate downshift. The result is that the engine is often at at higher RPM than is truly needed for a modest acceleration. Earlier upshifts under light throttle and less-eager downshifts would significantly improve fuel economy, reduce engine sound, and contribute to a more serene driving experience.
There is a notable contrast between the Suzuki Verona and the Hyundai Sonata. The Sonata makers are aggressively pursuing product improvement and customer satisfaction. The Verona product managers appear to have given up.
Yes, it's too bad....the Verona IS a pleasing car to look at. It would appear that one's money would be better spent elsewhere....even if you get slightly less equipment.
MORE
http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102991
Without full statistical data on how many of the Veronas were sold, how many developed any given problem, how many were fixed with the ECM upgrade, there is no way to know exactly how widespread or serious this or any other problem is at this point.
There is a really good chance that the dealers technicians are overlooking the actual cause of the problem that is not related to the ECM, but due to the ECM problems in the past cannot get past the tunnel vision. In any case if they cannot repair the car under warranty within a reasonable effort, you can always see if you need an attorney. Then wait up to two years while you cannot drive the Verona waiting for the courts to decide. This is assuming they will not do a voluntary buy back.
Don't worry about the very few people posting here with problems as most people who do not have any problems are not likely to complain about nothing, but almost everyone with a problem will want to complain.
While I take anecdotal evidence seriously, I also consider the whole picture and will wait until the data from the servicers comes through in a couple of years to make my real judgment. The early information does not look good, but time will tell. When the Verona first came to the US, it really seemed like it was not quite ready for prime time. The Ford Focus also was a car that was not quite ready for prime time when it hit the market the first couple of years, but look at it now.
I can agree that of the Suzuki dealers I have had to take cars in for service had less than the best service departments. This does not mean that all the Suzuki dealers service departments are less than stellar, just a two that I had to deal with.
I would not worry myself too much with the isolated anecdotal evidence from a few people here. At this point it could mean the problem is widespread or it could mean that there are a few bad cars.
It would appear just on this board that the problems are substantial. With only 12,000 sold last year ( according to Consumer Reports and others) just based on the problems posted here, I don't see why anybody with a rational mind would possibly purchase one of these cars. If there were some "fire sale" and they got rid of these new for less than 10K, then that is a different story!
I can understand the current owners suffering through these problems. I am sure most are still making problems and driving a car that is essentially worthless. It is a certainty that the Suzuki dealers were not prepared for all the problems.......
I am waiting to see the TSB that refers to replacing the heads for the valve train noise. So far Alldata does not show it.
As for me, I don't buy new model introductions the first three years they are out. It typically takes about 3 years to find out the real story. Anecdotal evidence may or may not be an indicator of the real problem history of a car. Even though the Magnus was sold in other countries, it typically had the Holden 4 banger with the Aisen tranny, not the inline 6 that has the GM engine controls along with the GM tranny.
As for the ECM stalling problem, it was three fold. The first attempt in August '04 wasn't quite there. In Sept. '04 they had the new ECM and fix in place, but it was plagued by incorrect information in the factory service manual on the computer idle relearn procedure. The TSB to give the correct idle relearn didn't come out until November of 2004. That is a long time to not have a firm handle on correcting the idle stalling issue indeed.
I purchased my Verona not for the value but for the engineering, Dr. Ulrich Bez was director of Daewoo during the Veronas development, it's his baby...Dr. Bez is former director of BMW, Porsche, and after a fallout with Porsche he was scooped up by Daweoo, and is now director of Aston Martin. This guy knows a thing or two about automotive development...The best part of the Verona in my view is the engine..all aluminum construction, fully counterwieghted crankshaft ( 12 ) seven main bearings, ladder frame for the main bearings ( clamps the crankshaft much better than individual bearing clamps ) and a nicely finned 8qt oil pan. The head is a twin cam with twin rocker shafts and roller rockers..The cylinder liners are Silitec, developed for Mercedes, they are thin, ultra strong and super slick..I cant even think on another car for the price with so much engineering. I also love the chassis, this car drifts nicely at 90mph ( fully controlable ) and feels like a missle at triple digits. As long as the car runs I'll keep it, thank you.
In June they did issue a new software upgrade for the transmission computer to improve the shifting. There is a TSB available for that if someone is having some odd shift behavior they would like checked out.
They also issued another software update for the ECM in June 2005, apparantly the earlier updates they performed didn't quite meet EPA standards for California emissions.
BTW anyone can order TSBs from Suzuki's pit stop web site or get copies from the dealers service department.
Haven't they issued something like THREE UPDATES? It would seen getting the transmission to perform properly is problematic.............