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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

1195196198200201214

Comments

  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Honda's new oil filters are rated for 20,000 miles (to be changed every other oil change). The thing is, they are not much different (if any) than the filters rated for 7500 miles. Having done experiments on flow-capacity of oil filters a long time ago, which included slicing them like salami to examine the filter materials, I can tell you that none of the filters I looked at were anywhere close to being clogged up. They all have so much filter surface (internally) that they can go a lot longer than we typically rate them for on a good engine. On a worn-out engine that is burning oil and has poor compression, that might not be the case.

    My wife's Acura TSX has a 10K oil change interval with the filter every other time. My RDX has the oil-life monitor, and at the moment it's pegging me for the first service at 8500 miles or so (extrapolating from the current numbers). I won't know until I get closer to the service what will be required, as it can call for a couple different services depending on the actual vehicle use. I would not be surprised if that stretches out past 8500 now that the weather is getting milder and I have fewer cold starts and less mountain driving.

    By the way, the oil-life monitor that Honda/Acura and many other brands use does not even sample/measure the oil in any way! They are entirely empirical, and merely count the number of starts, monitor the operating conditions/temperature/weather, oil temperature, look at RPMs and count total RPMs, and all the other quantifiable factors that impact oil life. This all goes into an algorithm that has been empirically derived to measure oil life. I think these systems are great, as they take all the guesswork out of schedules; those that should follow the normal schedule see longer intervals, and those that should follow the severe schedule see shorter intervals.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Interesting. All the reading I had done pointed to the filter being the weak point in the oil change cycle and that BMW used a sensor that checked for light transmission through the oil to determine the changes.

    For me I try to change it at 3k, but in the end it turns out to be closer to 10k intervals :(

    I've been running the Amsoil in the Armada and like it, even though it's costly. I'm planning on changing over the diffys as well.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    A typical spin-on filter is not in bypass after 3-6k miles but the filter material is certainly degraded. If it's in bypass you have some serious crud floating around in your engine. :P

    Regarding BMW in particular and many luxury brands in general having oil change intervals greater than 7500 miles, that is because they do not have a small spin-on filter. They use a large cartridge which flows better and has much more surface area. They also often have larger oil capacity; my '95 M3 held a tad over 7 quarts.

    Let's not go to extremes, some rather absurd discussion can and will result. In general 3k oil changes are excessive. When using fully synthetic oil, your filter ABSOLUTELY is the limiting factor in when you need a change. Mobil1 after 3,000 miles in a healthy engine will still easily exceed any standard oil, say Castrol GTX, on an oil quality test.

    ~Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I knew I had read it somewhere, just didn't remember the details behind why it was said. :)

    I believe my SVX took 7+/- quarts.

    -mike
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I just put Amsoil series 2000 0w-30 in my car. It has a change interval of 30K/1 year. The Amsoil filter is 25K/1 year, so I am planning on a 1 year change interval of oil and filter, since I drive about 20K a year. That way it does not exceed the recommended time interval, but also maximizes mileage. For "extreme service interval," the manufacturer recommends 12.5K or 6 month change interval on the filter only.

    Personally, at about $45 per gallon of oil, if I went with the extreme service schedule I would go for the semi-annual filter changes and change oil once per year. That would save me about 3.5 quarts of oil.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • kronogoosekronogoose Member Posts: 116
    I test drove a 2005 LGT (not the Limited) and I really like it. 13K miles and asking price of $20K.

    The car drove great, everything I checked worked, there were no obvious signs of body damage and no check engine lights. The owner has the title and it is not salvage/rebuild.

    Anything else I should look at before I buy it?

    Thanks,

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Turn off the radio and open the windows, then go for a drive. Vary your speeds. Listen very closely for any powertrain noises.

    At that early age, it's still under warranty, so you should be fine if everything is running smoothly.

    Check the bottom of the block for any oil stains, also the front and rear main seals. They should be relatively clean, oil stain free.
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    for 2005 GT non limited quite steep if you ask me.
    Are you paying for rarity? I think non limited GT was only available in 05.

    Krzys
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah I was going to say it seems a bit steep.

    -mike
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    20k is a quite steep for an un-Limited.

    FWIW, I have now have over 40k trouble-free miles on my 05 LGT LTD which will be 2 years old in May.

    The only warrantee issue to date was a broken seat rail cover from when the subwoofer was installed. Also, have the key fob covers changed (there is a TSB). The original style was very touchy, and would unlock the doors, or pop the trunk just by putting the keys in your pocket. Rob M.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    IIRC I saw those for $22k when new at fitzmall. Almost 2 years later they should be 20-30% less, so aim for no more than $18k.
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    There is one big advantage for cloth seats and NO sun roof: lots more head room for those who like to adjust the seat high and still have enough head room.

    Also if the GT is a wagon, it is not available as an 08 AFAIK.

    Only 13k miles is worth something extra.
  • kronogoosekronogoose Member Posts: 116
    Thanks for the advice. As it turns out, the car was involved in a "fender bender" about a year ago, but for some reason, the title was sold to an insurance company. I'm not sure why that would happen unless the car was totalled.

    In the past year, the car has changed hands five times between a couple of car dealers and private sellers. I've seen the title and it is not a salvage/rebuild, but I just have a bad feeling about it. I'm going to pass.

    My credit union uses the NADA guides, which tend to be more conservative (lower vehicle values) than Kelley Blue Book. NADA showed the value as $19,900. It may be a regional issue (I'm in Utah), but $20K seems to be on the low side for asking prices.

    My next target: a 2005 LGT Wagon Limited auto, this time from a used car dealer. No red flags from Carfax and it looks like a one-owner vehicle. Asking price is $21K with about 21K miles. I wish I could find one with low miles and a manual transmission!

    Thanks again,

    Greg
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Similar quandry as myself. For me I think I may opt for an 07 or 08 LGT Sedan 5MT as the price isn't that much more than the used 05/06

    -mike
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    In the past year, the car has changed hands five times between a couple of car dealers and private sellers. I've seen the title and it is not a salvage/rebuild, but I just have a bad feeling about it. I'm going to pass.

    Oh yeah. That's a car I'd want to own. :sick:

    Good call on walking away.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    5 owners?

    Run, don't walk, away.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'm not going to get into a huge discussion about this, but what you're doing is an awful idea. A spin-on filter displacing at most 1/3 quart cannot have a 25k mile life. No way.

    Go back to Mobil1 or something similarly priced and a Wix or Purolator filter. Change every 5,000 miles for best results, or 7,500 at most. Done.

    I'm not a huge AMSOil fan. I suppose it could be worse, there's always Royal Purple right? :)

    ~Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I've had good luck with Amsoil, and the place that put my trans in the Legacy for me put in RP. No issues with it so far with at least 30 or so HPDEs and some races and 25k street miles.

    Anything in particular bad about Amsoil? Just curious cause i'm about to put it in the boat motors....

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    There's nothing bad about the oil, no, even Royal Purple for that matter. They are overpriced and overkill because your filter cannot last that long.

    If you have a remote filter kit, dry sump, etc then I can see it because you can change that without losing hardly any oil.

    ~Colin
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I certainly appreciate your feedback. Since I have about 500 miles on the car since the last oil change, this is the time for it!

    Even if I go with a 6 month interval (or less if I were to drop to a 5/7.5K schedule), I still cannot see the point in changing out all of the engine oil unless it really needs it. Like you said, those tiny little spin-ons only hold about 1/3 quart, so change the filter, top it off, and call it good.

    If a 20,000 change interval on oil rated for twice that results in a sludged/seized up engine, the oil manufacturer would need to answer for that. My guess is that the change interval already accounts for it. But, like you said, no reason to go into a long discussion about it.

    I really do not expect to keep this car much longer unless I just cannot find a buyer for it, so I will likely leave the decision to the next owner and supply that person with the extra filters and oil I currently have on hand.

    The gear oil seems to have made a big positive improvement on morning cold starts and, possibly, mileage. No more gummy transmission and rear end in the mornings, and avg MPG up about 3 mpg in the last two weeks (with, I would estimate, 1 of those fully attributable to the oil - the other two perhaps to warmer daytime temps, though night/morning temps still at -15 to -20).
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • plim77plim77 Member Posts: 46
    I just had the oil changed for the 1st time in my 2005 Outback H6 (I bought the car used). I looked at the receipt and it shows that it took 7 quarts of oil. Of course, since this is more than 5 quarts, Pep Boys charged me an additional $4. Have other folks with H6 engines experienced this? Or was I over charged?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    It's at least 6 qts (look in the owner's manual for the exact numbers). It's hard to get a reading on the H6 engines, so they may have added more than needed (which is not an issue unless it's more than 0.5-1 quart too much). Then again, Pep Boys doesn't have a good reputation here -- a couple years ago, they drained some guys transmission (instead of the engine) during an oil change, then dumped 5 more quarts of oil in his engine. Wrecked both the engine and transmission. Be sure to double check their work.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I see colin, thanks for the input. I have to decide if I'll go with the Mercury Racing Synthetic or the Amsoil for the 502s in the boat. I believe those filters are inverted so you don't lose too much of the 8+ quarts those engines take.

    -mike
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    My 3.0 takes 5.8 quarts. The dipstick is nearly impossible to read based on my experience. If I put 6 quarts in the oil is barely visbile on the dipstick. My guess is that they did not follow the 5.8 quart recommendation, but rather, filled it up until it measured full, which is why it may quite well have taken 7 quarts.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pep Boys doesn't have a good reputation here

    You're not kidding.

    I just got 2 new tires for my Miata (sidewall got slashed so there was no hope), and had to have them mounted. In a pinch, I went to get them mounted, and most places did not have open time slots for that day, so I went to Pep Boys.

    They left greasy finger prints on the door, the trunk (where the flat was), the steering wheel, and the shift knob. I'm still working to get the mess cleaned up.

    If they don't take care with obvious things like that, imagine the small things you don't see. :lemon:

    I re-torqued my lug nuts as soon as I got home.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I re-torqued my lug nuts as soon as I got home.

    I hope it was a short drive! I had a pair of tires "inspected" at a local shop and they forgot to torque them at all - just had them hand tight. I drove 12 miles home and started hearing a "thunk" sound (as well as feeling the car jiggle) about 1/2 mile from home. I stopped, checked the wheels, and nearly all 10 of the nuts were about to fall off! I was counting my blessing after that one.... plus they got an earful the next day.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It wasn't, actually. Probably 8 miles or so. I took it easy.

    You definitely, positively, get what you pay for.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Somewhere around 8 years ago or so, I took my ol' '91 Legacy into a Q-Lube. I had just had a new automatic transmission put into the Legacy perhaps a week earlier. The Q-Lube guys tried to convince me the transmission fluid was way overdue to be replaced. Never been back to a quick-lube place since then.

    Though it's interesting, I've never been into doing my own under-the-hood work (& I don't have a garage, so that's a deterrent too, when it's raining 2/3 of the year), so I just go to the dealer now. They've got their own no-appointment oil & tire facility w/a nice, clean, big waiting area, internet hookup, large flatscreen TV, & tons of toys to keep my son occupied. (Heh heh, he gets excited to go to "Carter Subawoo" to play & sit in the showroom models too - which I also like, of course.) :)

    When we got our '06 Legacy, the dealer offered a one-time prepaid fee of $550-$600 or so for oil changes for life. Considering we kept our last Legacy 14 years, and plan on keeping this one awhile, it was a no-brainer for us to go that route. When we go in for major service, they deduct the oil change price from the bill, too.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    From what I have heard and my experience, Carter seems like a top-notch place. Perhaps someday I will be able to do business with them. :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    It's not a fancy dealership by any means, and the front-line customer service can be so-so at times, but Carter has a great inventory, convenient hours of operation & loaner cars, very good pricing (online, at least), low-key/no-pressure employees, and has definitely earned my trust and repeat business through the years. Perfect? No. But darn good. I'm rambling. :blush:
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,592
    I too had a pretty good experience at Carter when I bought my FX. The internet pricing is fair and straight forward for sure. The loaners and service on weekends really seal the deal though...I probably won't buy a Subie anywhere else, now.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • nickelnickel Member Posts: 147
    Went to the bike shop. They told me that because of the spoiler on my OB wagon, the classic removable bike rack couldn't fit. So, they recommended to buy a tow hitch, and then a bike hitch to match ($300-$500). I wanted the removable, 'cause I also want to use it also on my Sienna minivan. Thing is, that in the not so distant future maybe I'll upgrade to an OB XT or a Tribeca. The hitch can be used on those same models?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Absolutely.

    Hitches usually come in two sizes - 1.25" or 2".

    I was just at the sporting goods store last week, and the bike racks they sold that were hitch mounted fit both. The one I saw actually had a 1.25" hitch but came with an adaptor for 2" hitches.

    Subaru's OE size is 1.25", so you're golden.

    I have the OE rack and of course that is 1.25". It tilts out of the way so you can open the hatch even with the bikes on there. The bikes never touch the vehicle, and it's an easy lift, 10 times easier than roof mounted.

    I'm quite happy. I need a hitch on my next vehicle, though.
  • caliberchiccaliberchic Member Posts: 402
    I've had them actually scratch my rims while doing an oil change. :surprise:
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    We put the $130 Class 3 (3500lb) "Hidden Hitch" from JC Whitney on a Legacy wagon. It took about 40 minutes to install and mounts to existing holes (although there is one bolt to fish through the frame rail, but its not too difficult). You should be able to order a second hitch that would fit your Sienna as well.
    Its used with a 4 bike Yakima/Rhode Gear hitch rack that was about $90 from REI Outlet.
    The rack can be used on any vehicle with a 1.25" or 2" hitch receiver.
    This will be far more stable than a strapped on bike rack and you wont get marks in your vehicle's paint from the straps.
    If you actually want to tow, there are "plug and play" trailer light adapters for both the Subie and the Sienna that are very easy to install.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester and Outback are pre-wired for towing. Legacy and Impreza aren't, AFAIK, so those you might have to splice wires.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I dunno about the Impreza, but the Legacy wagon had the same connector as the Outback for the plug-n-play harness to plug into. It also has the plug for the power outlet in the hatch area.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Didn't know that. For earlier models Subaru didn't even rate the Legacy for towing. Maybe that changed for the newer ones? :confuse:
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmm they could always tow IIRC. I think before the newest gen they didn't have the plugs pre-wired in the legacies.

    -mike
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I, too, definitely recommend you go with a hitch-mounted or roof-mounted rack versus the type you strap onto the gate. The biggest reason is because the strap type completely immobilizes the gate unless you unload the bikes every time! I took a trip from Fairbanks to Oregon and back with a strap-on type, with a full load of bags, food, beverages... and two dogs. I tell you, the loss of the gate was highly annoying.

    No damage to the gate, though. Ours is a Yakima model, but we have not used it at all since that trip. :sick:

    Of course, now that I think about it, you already said that the strap version would not work due to the "spoiler" at the top of the gate. :blush:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I am a big fan of the roof mounted rack systems, but the main Subie pilot is 5'2" with shoes so the ability to lift mountain bikes onto the roof made the hitch receiver a better option.
    The specific $90 Rhode Gear/Yakima rack will fold away from the gate but its cumbersome, and the arms don't fold down so it effective adds ~4' to the end of the vehicle, making it hard to get in the garage or parallel park. Most of of the newer/fancier ones have fold down arms.
    I would budget $300-400 for a rack system, either using a roof mount for 2 bikes or a hitch mount including the hitch.
  • nickelnickel Member Posts: 147
    Thanks everybody for your advice. I called today to 3 Subaru dealers in the area, and the cheaper would cost me $299, plus $130 to install. So, the JCWhitney makes a lot of sense. But, wouldn't it void the warranty? How can I know for sure. I'll think that the dealership is going to tell me that it will.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Thanks everybody for your advice. I called today to 3 Subaru dealers in the area, and the cheaper would cost me $299, plus $130 to install. So, the JCWhitney makes a lot of sense. But, wouldn't it void the warranty? How can I know for sure. I'll think that the dealership is going to tell me that it will.

    If you are in the US, that would be totally illegal. Obviously, they will not warranty the trailer hitch itself if you buy a non-Subaru hitch, but they are only allowed to void the warranty on affected components. I can't think of any associated with the hitch itself. If the electrical unit is defective and fries something, that would be an issue, but we are talking about just the hitch right now.
    Typically, the "OEM" electrical connector is made by the 2 or 3 companies that make the aftermarket t-fittings anyway.
  • michaelncmichaelnc Member Posts: 14
    Just filled out an initial quality survey on my Legacy SE. My only complaint on the survey was the interior color being easily soiled, but I ranked it as a minor annoyance. Overall I gave it a 9 (out of 10), maybe I should have given it a 10. :D

    Still very pleased with the Legacy. My mpg keeps going up about 1/2 mpg per tank. Now averaging about 30.5mpg!!! (I do have 64 mile round trip commute, without any stoplights. Just open country roads and I keep it under 60mph, which helps the mpg.

    Mike
    Hickory, NC
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sweet that your mileage breaks into the 30s. I think I've only done that twice with my Forester.
  • michaelncmichaelnc Member Posts: 14
    Just got my Motor Trend-has new WRX on cover. Not so sure about the new styling. Maybe it will grow on me.

    Inside there was also mention of the new 3.6 for the Tribeca. Horsepower and torque gains, improved mpg and now only takes 87 octane! Improved cooling passages allow the new engine to run on regular fuel.

    Super move Subaru. Even better, this engine would be great in a Legacy. :)

    Mike
    Hickory, NC
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Check out the Subaru crew future models thread -- lots of details about both cars over there in the past 3-4 days. Tribeca photos showed up today.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Definitely hop over to that thread because the Motor Trend pics were awful. They made the grille look all-chrome.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    If you want to go the route of having someone install it for you check out U-Haul. For around $290 or so you get the hitch installed, with all the wiring done for towing (if you need it). For an extra $5 you get a life-time warranty on the hitch good at any Uhaul center.

    Mark
  • dmathew347dmathew347 Member Posts: 80
    I've been hearing that the tires on the '07 standard Legacy Limited wagon are horrible and wear out quick. My neighbors legacy needed new set of "expensive" tires around 35,000 miles. And apparently you can't just replace one, you have to replace all tires on an AWD.

    My question is why are the standard tires so bad, is it because they are low-profile ones? I thought the low profile tires are only for the GT models.
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