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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    My 08 is a PZEV (partial-zero emissions vehicle) and it has dual exhausts! I suppose Subaru realizes the irony here so they hide the pipes from view unless you stoop low or lie on the ground.
  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    Apparently the new grille is contentious and I'm not a real fan of it. Frankly I am worried about having a problem with the radiator: the gaps in the grille are huge and there is no screen to filter out gravel and other road debris. The radiator is very much exposed.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Your radiator actually isn't in the front. That's the AC Condensor that you see there. :)

    If it really concerns you a lot, get some mesh wire from home depot and hot-glue it to the back of the grille, it will be both stylish and functional.

    -mike
  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    I am dismayed by how rough my car runs when I first start it in the morning. It sounds BAD: it sputters and chugs as if it wants to stall, the rpms bounce up and down and the engine makes a lot of clanking noises. On a new car??? I know Subarus are generally rough and loud when cold but still... Once I put it in gear and drive off it's fine, and it's also fine during midday restarts, but that first startup in the morning, yuck, it's like I've got a 15 year old car!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Thank the federal gov for that. The cold-emissions starts are pretty bad unfortunately. Hopefully they'll be able to engineer around them better.

    -mike
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Before you turn the key all the way to start up in the morning, try waiting until the needles in the gauges have made their full sweep up and back, then turn the ignition all the way. Gives the fuel pump time to prime. Maybe that would take care of the worst of the problem.
  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    Ah, that does make sense. The cats are stone cold in the morning, rendering them ineffective so the ECU or whatever must be doing "something" to mitigate emissions, especially if the car is rated PZEV. Yes, they DO need engineers on this, pronto!

    And waiting for the full gauge sweep does improve matters: the loudness remains but the stuttering/chugging is reduced.
  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    I just performed my first fill-up and while the trip computer estimated my tank mileage at 28.2 mpg, my actual calculated mileage was in fact 27.3 mpg. This is decent accuracy. However this brought something else to my attention. I revisited the mileage records for my 2003 Outback and discovered that over the 196 times I refilled it, I never achieved anything better than 26.9 mpg. Wow.

    I AM babying my new car like I've never babied one before. Age has something to do with it (I'm now a mellow 34) but the instantaneous mileage display has been very revealing and instructive for me. You hear similar stories from Prius owners but it's just as effective for non-hybrids. When you get immediate feedback from the car on its fuel usage you are able to evaluate on-the-fly whether the current rate of consumption is appropriate. After all it is liquid money you are burning, among other things.

    I was shocked to see the mpg's dip so low whenever I tried to maintain my speed - or worse, accelerate - up a hill. Allowing the car to slow a little when going uphill saves a lot of gas. Likewise, you burn a lot of gas whenever you accelerate (OK, this is intuitive), but I never realized that acceleration, even light acceleration, burned much more gas than maintaining your speed. So you learn not to drive so fast in situations where you may have to stop soon (suburban/city traffic) because you want to spend more time maintaining speed than accelerating.

    Subaru apparently modified the gear ratios as well. They are pleasingly longer and require shifting later.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Yep, that instant mileage calculation did the same with me, as did my age (35). :) I still like to stomp on it occasionally, when the situation allows, but my habits have mellowed (matured?) as well.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Being 33 myself I try to keep my average per tank above 21mpg in the city and 24mpg on the highway. I've been pretty successful at doing it on my LGT wagon 5MT.

    -mike
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I personally like the optimism of the computer. Reality can suck, its nice to know there is technology trying to keep me pacified.
    That said, I think the computer said I got 32 on the last tank and it was much closer to 30 (05 2.5i Legacy wagon 5spd).
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Mine has been dead on balls accurate to my calculations within .2 mpg

    -mike
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Yeah I don't know why it would be off. I believe it takes its signals from the fuel injector duty cycle. I would think that would be pretty accurate, much better than the old school vacuum gauge in 80s BMWs.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    I just successfully installed an OEM kit that will allow you to control your iPod through your stereo. I have only tried this on an '07 stereo so I can't be sure it will work with the '06's and '08's but I'm thinking it should work with any stereo that has the satellite radio functionality.

    The integration kit is part number H621SFG500 and it is actually for the '08 Impreza's.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    Cool tip; nice that there is a factory option out there. So, as opposed to the standard aux in, this allows ipod control through the stereo, yes? How does it sound?

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I think your '07 was the first year sat radio was offered in Legacy/Outback... as an '06 owner, I'm out of luck on this one. Very cool mod, though, Ian! I was excited to see Subaru finally offer this kit - thanks for giving it a shot in your vehicle. :) I'd do it if I could.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    tifighter - Yes, it allows you to control the iPod with the stereo. Sounds great to me, but I'm no audiophile. I would think it's about as good as you're going to get though since it hooks up to the iPod's docking interface rather than plugging into the headphone jack.

    jeffmc - Actually, my wagon is an '05 but I purchased an '07 radio (Subaru part number 86201AG67A ~$400) a month or so ago as I was planning to add an Aux input plug in the center console cubby like the '07's come with. I had yet to install it when I found out about this integration kit. It just made the installation totally plug 'n play instead of having to add wires for the Aux jack. Plug 'n play I can do, tapping into the existing wire harnesses I'm not as comfortable with so I was going to pay a stereo installer to tackle it.

    Next up is a Parrot bluetooth kit (which is also plug 'n play)! :shades: :D;)

    Cheers!
    -Ian

    p.s. Not sure how the powers that be here are nowadays with references to other discussion boards but there is a lot more information in the Interior/Audio section of legacygt.com.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Oh yeah, forgot to mention the iPod integration kit is only about $130. I got mine from subarugenuineparts.com. They've got great customer service and the best prices I've found online for Subaru parts. That and you're purchasing from Jamie "subiegal" Thomas, driver of "Burnsie" the rally wagon! LOL! :D;)

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Between the new head unit & iPod kit, you're spending more to play the iPod in your car than the iPod itself costs. :D Kinda funny, but I do understand.

    Is Jamie with Chaplin's (subarugenuineparts.com) now, rather than Carter (allsubaru.com)?
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    Yeah, I think she made the jump almost 2 years ago...

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Guess I'm a little behind the times! I did check out the genuinesubaruparts site... pretty good. Some stuff for my Leggy (& OB) I don't remember seeing elsewhere, and prices were good. I'll have to keep them in mind.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Well, to be fair I used Subaru Bucks for all but about $40 worth of the HU and iPod kit. :P ;)

    Gotta love Subie Bucks!!!!

    Yeah, Jamie moved to Chaplin's a couple years ago.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    How is the upgrade from 05->07+ stereo? I want to do this upgrade but only if it's plug and play.

    -mike
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Hey Mike!
    Great to see you poppin' in at lgt.com and joining the wagon mafia! ;)

    It's totally plug and play. Unplug the connections at the back of the stereo, swap some mounting brackets and the plug for the hazard lights, plug everything back in where they fit and VOILA! New stereo with satellite radio/integrated iPod and AUX in capability. Well, OK, the AUX input won't be plug 'n play as you'll need to run some wires from where ever you decide to put the AUX port to the harness at the back of the HU.

    If you're looking for further details on this do a search on "2007 Spec B radio" over at legacygt.com and you'll find all the details you could want.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I was looking into adding the cross bars to the factory rack on my '05 Legacy wagon. It looks like the factory kit is Thule (square bar) for about $110. Yakima EZ-Riders that clip into the factory rack are about $90 and the Yakima cross bars are like $40. All of my bike mounts are Yakima (although I think the newer ones will go both ways).

    I want to carry 2 mtn bikes and a cargo case (I can't believe how much paraphernalia is required for an infant on a trip...stroller, pack-n-play, toys, etc).

    Does anyone have any experience with either one?
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    I have the factory kit on my Forester; square bars, but the kit is made by Mont Blanc, not Thule. Doesn't matter; Thule attachments work just fine. No issues at all; I've used it with bike attachments, kayaks, canoes, and a cargo box. Went factory route simply because I could use Subie bucks ;)

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    I've got the Yakima EZ Rider's and cross bars. They work very well. I don't think you can go wrong either way.

    Then again I don't know if the cross bars available from Subaru are long enough for a box and two bike mounts. Guess you'll have to do some measuring! ;)

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I'd take a guess that you'd be unable to fit 2 bikes & cargo box on the roof... might be pushing the weight limit up there as well. How 'bout a hitch attachment for the bikes? That's what I'm looking at purchasing in the next couple months... hidden hitch w/Thule T2 carrier, most likely.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I'd take a guess that you'd be unable to fit 2 bikes & cargo box on the roof... might be pushing the weight limit up there as well. How 'bout a hitch attachment for the bikes? That's what I'm looking at purchasing in the next couple months... hidden hitch w/Thule T2 carrier, most likely.

    Yeah I have the hidden-hitch already but I will be towing a small trailer on the way back. I have the Rhode Gear by Yakima 4 bike hitch mount rack - it is very entry level and while I do like that it holds 4 bikes, I don't like that the arms don't fold down making it hard to park in the garage or in the city.

    I want the stroller and then pack-n-play to go on the roof and 2 ~25# mountain bikes. The cargo area of the wagon is where the dog hangs out on trips. I think there will be very few occasions where the box and the bikes will both be up there at the same time.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    If you get long enough cross bars you can always put the bike trays on the outside of the towers. I can get 5 bikes on the roof with the two outboard trays outside the towers and by alternating front facing and rear facing with the bikes.

    Sorry, just re-read those last posts. It's weight your worried about not space! ;)

    I've never used a cargo box so I can't comment about how heavy you can load those. I bet you can get a lot of stuff in there though!
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Actually the space issue was one of the reasons I was leaning towards the Yakima system for the note you made, putting things on the outside of the clamps.
    I am not too worried about weight, I figure 50# of bike and 50# of baby stuff + 20# of rack and I'm still under the 150# limit with some room to spare.
    I appreciate all of your thoughts and input.
  • feilofeilo Member Posts: 128
    Thanks for your commentary on the 08 OB, its really helpful. Did you get a 5MT 2.5i?

    After lurking here for sometime now and endless deliberations with myself about getting an OB, I think its time. My VW Passat wagon will need to be replaced and the 08 OB is contender for sure. I have driven in rental pre-08 OB's and there are somewhat unrefined as you stated, which has kept at arms length. Your comments on the overall performance is also encouraging. Its definitely a contendah!
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    I switched to a 2005 Outback 3.0R VDC wagon from a Passat W8 wagon. It's great to be able to keep my car out of the repair bay!

    The 2005 rides better than the Passat did on rough roads and has less throttle lag from a stop. No doubt the Passat had better 0-60 times for those who care.

    The 3.0R VDC has much less understeer than the Passat which you will appreciate. High speed stability seems identical. Fuel economy for my six is similar to the W8 on the highway but much better in city driving. You might want to test drive the 3.0R.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A friend still has hers in the shop. She's had this Ford Five Hundred loaner longer than she had her Passat, it seems. She fooled me into thinking she's bought the Ford! :D
  • feilofeilo Member Posts: 128
    Whoa, must have hit a raw VW Passat nerve here ;)

    W8's are great to drive but boy they need some $ for TLC ...

    In all fairness my 03 VW Passat 1.8T wagon has been relatively troublefree over the last 4 years/135K miles and I have enjoyed driving it with a few tweaks (chipped, lowered suspension). I now have to change my ride because its too "old" for our company car plan.

    I have always fancied the OB/Legacy especially one with 5MT. Shame they killed the Legacy GT wagon and the XT is beyond my budget (as is the new Passat Wagaon). I was going to wait for the Jetta Sportwagen but its will be in its first MY and I don't think I will have the same fortunes I have had with my Passat.

    Looked at leftover 07 Mazda6 wagons and while the prices are right (they have $2,750 rebates on them!), the choices were either high-end GTs or low-end VEs, and no AWD.

    I think the 2.5i with 5MT is a darn good package now and as before, its a contendah!
  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    My new 08 seems so much smoother in general operation than the previous-generation 03 that I sometimes think my old Outback was actually a lemon. But that's not really the case. One big difference is the new electronic throttle control. What really drove me crazy with the 03 (on hindsight) is that anytime you lifted your foot off the accelerator, even gently, the damn engine would "clunk" and jerk. Now, my foot actions are filtered by the electronic control.

    There is a downside to this: the new Outback is tamer, a little boring even. The current Outback is more like an Accord/Camry appliance; the refinement is there and the comfort and the smoothness but if you are a driving enthusiast you may not like it because that mechanical grittiness has been whittled away. It seems out of character to drive this car aggressively, it wants more relaxed and nuanced piloting.

    And OK, the "brand new car" aura is starting to wear off. Some issues: the power windows squeak occasionally when lowering them, I notice a lot of little vibrations and noises but they happen in different places at inconsistent times, the felt covering the back of the rear seats is ALREADY starting to pill, no weather band on the radio, the new lighter tailgate shuts with a cheap, tinny sound, the headlights don't spread light high enough, I'm uncertain about how well the cloth seats are going to wear - the "suede"-like part seems a little cheap, the Potenza tires have ridiculously short tread-height (designed to be replaced too quickly). The theme here is cost-cutting and I don't see Honda/Toyota-esque build quality.

    But for the price ($22K)... eh, you know, I just want to avoid the shop and the hassles of warranty repairs. I once owned a Ford Contour and I want to say "never again, Ford". My old Outback had very little problems and very favorable TCO so if I see the same out of my new Outback I will be satisfied and may continue to buy Subarus. Even though it's a wagon I appreciate the way it looks, I like the image it invokes - it suggests I am an educated, passionate, financially-secure, liberal-minded, outdoorsy-type who is confident enough to drive a station-wagon instead of a dreadful SUV. This kind of stuff can be a little hookey but it's true to a certain extent. Whenever I am at the trailhead or launch ramp, I always see Subarus, one after another after another. It's like a fraternity.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I think your points about the isolation and refinement are interesting. Did you get a chance to try the '05-07? We have really enjoyed our '05, but it still lacks the NVH characteristics of an Accord or Camry (although I think that is one of the reasons we like it so much).
    I thought your comments about drive-by-wire were interesting also. I thought the 03/04 still had a cable, but it might have been an early drive-by-wire implementation. I always felt that having a real cable controlling the throttle was smoother and more responsive than the computer controlling it, as it took out a few middle-men (you push gas, gas pulls cable, cable opens TB vs you push gas, electrical sensor reads pedal position, relays information to computer, computer runs algorithm to determine how much gas it should put in, tells the fuel system to put that much fuel in...etc).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is she showed up last night at my house, our kids had a play date. She still has the loaner Ford. It's been over a month now! I didn't have the heart to ask her about it, but it was engine trouble last time I asked. :sick:
  • feilofeilo Member Posts: 128
    Gandalf ( ;) ) - Did you get a 5MT?
  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    I did not drive the 05-07. The 08 is merely refreshed so it should not behave much differently. Before I bought the 03 Outback I owned an 01 Accord Coupe and I wouldn't consider it to be superior to the 08 in the NVH department (of course there is a 7 year gap). I do know that my 03 Outback model had a mechanical linkage not drive-by-wire. I am not bothered by the inherent electronic complexity of DBW because any new car is loaded with CPUs and circuit boards anyway.

    I got a 5MT and this is one area where I want a traditional mechanical design. I know it is only a matter time before all cars (save performance/specialty cars) have mandatory automatic transmissions, even though these will likely be advanced (6+ speeds, CVT, etc). There's just no way in hell I am going to buy a 2008 model with an archaic 4 speed slushbox...and then pay $600-$1000 extra for it! That's just nuts.

    I would have considered the 2008 CR-V but since Honda killed the MT for the current generation, Subaru re-earned my business. The only alternative I felt I had was the Suzuki SX4...just not the right fit.
  • shrinermonkeyshrinermonkey Member Posts: 58
    The 4 speed AT is really not that bad, their are ceratainly much worse 4 and 5 speed ATs out there. The 5 speed ZF in my VW Passat wasn't any better and it had a extra cog, plus is had ridiculously expensive proprietary fluid requirements.
  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    The 4AT in the Outback may indeed be OK - I can't judge because I haven't driven it. But I'm incredulous that a 4 speed automatic is a $1000 option. Maybe it costs that much because it offers clutchless manual shifting. But still, $1000 ($1200 for XT)? I suppose I should be grateful that I can drive a stick since I am saving a bundle.*

    * - Heh, yea, until I trade in the car! Dealers like to low-ball you on your 5MT trade because they say "nobody wants manuals".
  • nickelnickel Member Posts: 147
    Hi. Just wondering who is responsible for changing the tires in a lease car, like after 20,000 miles, the company or the buyer?
  • mithrandirmithrandir Member Posts: 28
    Unless you have a service contract the lessee is responsible for all maintenance including replacing wear items like tires. Subaru's standard warranty picks up the tab for brake pads, clutch linings and wipers (among other things) but tires are not covered.
  • feilofeilo Member Posts: 128
    Hi shrinermonkey - wasn't sure it was you until you mentioned this in your post above;

    The 5 speed ZF in my VW Passat wasn't any better and it had a extra cog, plus is had ridiculously expensive proprietary fluid requirements.

    I'm close to leaving the world of VW too ... do you have an OB?
  • artourartour Member Posts: 22
    Gee, it would be wonderful if the leassor paid all maintenance on the car, but unfortunately all us leasees pay and pay and pay. Tires, oil changes, brakes, windshield wipers and everything else that wears out not covered by warranty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It costs $1000 because that's what some bean counter figured the market would bear.

    Retail cost of the option likely has little to do with actual costs.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    does anyone know if the speedometer on the OB or any Sube is specific for the OEM tire size?
    I mean, would a say 08 OB with stock 17in wheels have the speedometer calibrated differently than say the base OB with the 16in wheels or would the manufacturer consider that for such a small difference (about 0.3in diameter for stock tires) that one car will be "inaccurate" and the other "accurate". It seems that quite often even comparable tire sizes are in reality different in diameter by 1/2in or more or even between different makes of the same size tire. It would certainly seem that if different wheel sizes are optional on a specific model it would be too much of a hassle in the factory to make sure the speedometer was specifically calibrated for one tire size.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Generally they set the speedo for the largest stock tire, so smaller tires would read a little fast.

    I believe odometer laws actually prohibit them from reading fewer miles than have been actually traveled, hence my reasoning for that logic.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    thanks juice, makes sense.
    will probably get 215/65-16s for winter - 0.1in larger than the stock 17in RE92As (then when I replace the junk stock Potenzas with Nokians in the future I can put those 215s on another car which comes with 215/65-16s - the Sienna!)
    now all I need is my darn car to be delivered from lafayette! I asked for a PZEV spec one and its taking forever, I just missed the cutoff for an order for Sept delivery!
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