Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

hondafriek · May 2004

You still did not address the fact that although you and some others want all the latest gizmos most don't want to pay for them.

You can already hear the moans about cost, as an example of how costs have risen over the years and will keep rising.Im 1986 I bought what was then the top of the line Toyota Corolla, An LE liftback.

The out the door price including all taxes and destination charges was less that $12000CDN The MSRP on the top line Corolla today is $24000CDN not including taxes. Now granted all costs labour and materials have grown over the years but the added bells and whistles have also added to the overall cost.(incidently the MSRP on a Legacy L wagon is about 3 grandCDN more)

A small majority of people have expressed an interest in these Gizmos like NAV and GPS and HID lights, and if Subaru give in and add them across the board the vast majority of people like juice and myself will end up paying for something we do not want, to satisfy the whim of a few. I have no problem with offering it as an option, but to have it installed in all models with the associated increase in cost forget it.

Cheers Pat.

alpha01 · May 2004

"A small majority of people have expressed an interest in these Gizmos like NAV and GPS and HID lights, and if Subaru give in and add them across the board the vast majority of people like juice and myself will end up paying for something we do not want, to satisfy the whim of a few."

Um, yea, its called an "OPTION". Unknown in the Honda vocabulary, but common in the dictionary of every other automaker. Toyota currently sells NAV as an option on Camry SEs and XLEs (V6s only), and those who want it, typically wait for it, as its not a standard configuration. Actually, even Honda's only factory option on Accords, TSXs, TLs, etc... is the NAV. Why do you assume its all or nothing for Subaru? Cant we have NAV as an option? Wouldnt that keep you and other no-NAVers happy, while simultaneously keeping those who want NAV in the Subaru family?

~alpha

hondafriek · May 2004

Actually the drift I get from a lot of the posts in Edmunds people want them alright but they do not want to pay extra. The sentiment is if you can get this stuff on cars costing less than 20K why isn't Subaru icluding them in the price of the new Legacy,

Cheers Pat.

alpha01 · May 2004

Fair enough, but thats not the drift I get at all. Im thinking more like "If its the latest technology available, and its on cars that are costing about $20,000, then why is Subaru not offering it AT ALL on the "NEW" Legacy whose MsRP runs from approx $22500 to $33000 USD".

~alpha

npaladin2000 · May 2004

I hate NAV myself, but the point is that it's available in some "lower end" non premium cars, and some people look for that as a sign of "market scale." Same with HIDs...they appeal to the sport/tuner crowd that would grab something like a GT or a WRX.

And if you did a lot of driving at night and actually HAD Xenon lights in your Miata, you'd be singing a different tune about HIDs. They make a rather large visibility difference. And the thing is, if they're properly leveled, the HIDs in other cars should NOT be blinding you (Also, please don't look directly into them, same as regular headlights. The eye is naturally drawn to it, but you must resist..hehe).

rsholland · May 2004

I know from experience that they can be helpful. Last fall, while attending a high school reunion, I got lost trying to find one of my old high school buddies house, who was hosting a brunch. Not only did I get lost, but so did another old high school friend who was right behind me. As it turned out his Lexus had a navigation system. All he did was punch in the address into the NAV unit, and we were at our destination within 5 minutes.

I can also remember a few years ago my daughter was driving through Baltimore for the first time and got lost in a bad section of the city at night. She was terrified, and we had to direct her out of there via her cell phone. A NAV system would have been very helpful, if she had one.

Bob

buddhabman · May 2004

I echo what Pat said previously. The HID and NAV are nice features, but it seems like people expect Subaru to give this away. These can be added as an option later in the model run. Projector Beams and available OnStar are just as effective for now.

Look if the car compares as well in the US magazines as it seems to have been received in Japan, Australia, and Germany alot of this moaning will be moot.

If you feel the new Mazda 6 wagon is equal or better for the price buy it. If you feel the A4/S4, or BMW 325 Wagon, or G35X or TL are much superior at a "slightly elevated price" buy them. If you feel the Camry/Accord features, minus the AWD is perfect for you buy those.

I will stay loyal to the Legacy. It's improved every year since I bought mine GT Wagon in 99.

bigelm · May 2004

Bottom line is the majority who want it, will pay for it. Those that don't should be looking into buying a map then.
When ABS was introduced, it was hard to accept. When airbags were introduced, it was hard to adjust. When CD Changers were included, it was hard to buy... regardless, it was hard to consider as a much wanted/needed 'gizmo'.

In any event, NAV and HID's should be an option however you slice it? The idea of it being an option says, those that want it WILL pay for it; PERIOD!!!!

zoomer1 · May 2004

Those of us who said that we are looking at the G35x are willing to pay $36K+....that is substantially more than the Legacy. But then again the G35x is a much larger car. Those who interpret that we are not willing to pay for the options are just doing that--interpreting but not buying for us. I will pay for the options IF SOA makes them available.

Look it is not like they have to build a new car---THEY ALREADY BUILD IT AND SELL IT AND HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR A WHILE!!!!

Would I pay $36K for a Legacy? H.NO! Would I pay something less than the A4/A6? H.Yeah! How much? I don't know...let SOA figure that out. BTW, I have been in and out of SOA products since 1978. I agree with several of you...SOA cars have improved every turn and every generation....don't stop now!

Yes...several of you are right as well when you say that you don't want to pay for options others want. I don't want you to pay for my options. I suspect that the 3x5 or 4x6 cover above the controls for the air is a location for the NAV or other display...check out the pictures and the brochure on the subaru.de site...and therefore there is no engineering to be performed. Let those who want the "gizmos" have them without spilling the costs to others.

I think alpha01 has nailed it on the head!

buddhabman · May 2004

I echo what Pat said previously. The HID and NAV are nice features, but it seems like people expect Subaru to give this away. These can be added as an option later in the model run. Projector Beams and available OnStar are just as effective for now.

Look if the car compares as well in the US magazines as it seems to have been received in Japan, Australia, and Germany alot of this moaning will be moot.

If you feel the new Mazda 6 wagon is equal or better for the price buy it. If you feel the A4/S4, or BMW 325 Wagon, or G35X or TL are much superior at a "slightly elevated price" buy them. If you feel the Camry/Accord features, minus the AWD is perfect for you buy those.

I will stay loyal to the Legacy. It's improved every year since I bought mine GT Wagon in 99.

sebberry · May 2004

Ever been in an unfamiliar city trying to navigate your way around town with a map in one hand and a steering wheel in another? The stress and confusion brought on by unfamiliar streets and traffic patterns quickly wipes out any memory that I have of map directions.

I want to concentrate on the streets and the car making an illegal left turn in front of and about to hit me, not a jumbo fold-out paper map. I want to drive down the street and have the display and voice prompts tell me when to turn, when to get off the freeway, and in the case of the Subaru system, tell me how many kilometers I have to go before I run out of gas. If I want my car to treat me like an idiot, I will pay for it as it is certainly a safety feature.

Make it standard? Maybe on the higher-levels, but at least make it an option. It may not be the deal breaker for some, but for many it is. Especially when much cheaper cars offer it.

Also, there is some resale value that a Navigation system would offer. With it becomng standard on many vehicles, it could make it harder to sell the car 5 years down the road. Just like power windows, ABS, CD changers and more.

So, why is it that some people refuse to pay $36kUS for a fully loaded Legacy? it certainly would hold it's own (features and performance) against many european models, and offer better styling than many other domestics and imports. It it because it is a Subaru and not an Infiniti, BMW, Audi? Heck, it offers better quality and more simplistic engineering than most Euro cars, not to mention more affordable maintenance and parts.

Feature for feature, it would still be a great value, even if it is $36k for a Legacy.

PS. Even with properly aligned HID's, they are rather annoying in the rear-view as the car behind travels over dips and bumps in the road. I wouldn't want to subject anyone to that torture.

Offering the customer the choice is the only way to more sales. You wany HID's, I don't. I want Navi, you don't. The only we will both be happy (or Subaru owners at all) is if we cah chose those options.

Just my .02

ntk1 · May 2004

Received my June issue of R&T and Motor trend last night, no reviews of the 05 Legacy (Not even a mention in passing) - Dissapointing, they must have had some early units to test

kevin111 · May 2004

Price. Subaru feels they have to keep the Legacy GT under $30K, like they had to keep the WRX under $25K.

Subaru had this problem with the Outback and VDC models, in that they charged over $30K for them, then had to give significant incentives due to these cars not selling.

If the Legacy GTs take off sales wise, there might be a very good chance that things like Nav and HIDs might be brought in as options durring the refreshening period in a couple of years.

This happened with the WRX, when there were complaints of no sun-roof. With the 2004 refreshening, a premium package was added. Who is to say that a premium package in a year or two will not be added with xenon headlights and Nav?

I am curious to see how the vehicle does in the next year (very curious to hear the reviews, but expect them to be glowing).

In terms of the G35 vs. the Legacy, the G35 weighs more, but the interior and trunk might be very similiar. Unfortunately, I do not have the specifications of the new Legacy vs. the G35. The Legacy is supposed to weigh around 3200 lbs.and the G35 RWD manual weighing 3400 lbs.

ateixeira · May 2004

I think NAV is a distraction, actually. Maybe if it can give voice commands, but I'm sure it takes your eyes and attention off the road.

Navi system in the 05 Acura RL streams real-time traffic data of major highways

I don't buy it, the real-time ski conditions report at Sky Liberty said they had 26" of packed powder while it was pouring rain. I was there, at the ski resort, and that's what they were claiming.

Garbage in, garbage out. Data is key, we agree, but who will truly give reliable data?

By the time the traffic info gets to you, it's no longer useful, you're already stuck in that traffic. I think it's very optimistic to think otherwise.

A level HID light on a Navigator still points directly in my eyes. Not all vehicles have headlights at the same level, is my point.

Options, sure, just don't build-in this cost for people that don't want it. When it's a safety feature, that's different. When it's a gizmo/toy that I'm not likely to use, it's just price padding.

I'll go one step further and say these could be accessories, rather than options, sold via SPT at dealers. Heck, just get that Garmin Palm, it's portable, color, and gives voice commands. That works for multiple cars, and it's cheap, $400 or so IIRC.

-juice

ateixeira · May 2004

Fitz has a VDC on clearance for $26k and change.

Stability control is great, but Subaru packaged it with a gizmo/toy (the Mac stereo). When it was new they claimed it was some $4000 in high-end stereo hardware.

THAT was their mistake! People want VDC, but not coupled up to a nice but hyper-expensive stereo. $33k for a car that was inexpensive and built to stay that way? How did it sell? Not so good, even after $7k in discounts. Ouch.

So my position is make the safety stuff standard, the goodies should be options, not grouped together. That strategy failed miserably, the VDC is proof.

-juice

bigelm · May 2004

Majority of NAV's come with voice direction prompts.

Again, to each their own. That's why options are OPTIONS!!!

The G35 is larger than the Legacy with more luxo features, hence the weight.

I know this is a Subaru forum, but please, kill the biggetry.. :-p

npaladin2000 · May 2004

"A level HID light on a Navigator still points directly in my eyes. Not all vehicles have headlights at the same level, is my point."

They're not supposed to be level, they're supposed to point DOWN. If they're in your eyes, you're either staring straight into them intentionally, or they're not set properly on the Navigator (which is likely, I have to admit...SUV owners seem to go out of their way to be annoying sometimes.

)

hondafriek · May 2004

If you go back over all the posts since the new legacy was just a dream you will see that most people will not pay 36KUSD not some as you say. As a matter of fact most people were highly insistant that the price stay below 30KUSD. As Kevin points out in post# 1228 When Subaru introduced the H6 and VDC at over 30KUSD they couldn't give them away.

They had to be heavily discounted to move them. You can turn it upside down and inside out but the bottom line is the upper ceiling most people are willing to pay for a Suburu is 30KUSD and that is the demographic that Subaru will cater to in order to stay competetive. The luxury items like NAV. and GPS are all ad'equately addressed in the aftermarket.

Cheers Pat.

kevin111 · May 2004

The G35 is not that big on the inside. Thought the '05 Legacy will be a little roomier than the '04. Otherwise, the '04 Legacy is close in size to the interior of the G35.

'04 Legacy:

Interior
Front Head Room: 38.1 in.
Front Leg Room: 43.3 in.
Rear Head Room: 36.6 in.
Rear Leg Room: 34.2 in.
Luggage Capacity: 12.4 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5

G35:
Interior
Front Head Room: 40.1 in.
Front Leg Room: 43.9 in.
Rear Head Room: 37.9 in.
Rear Leg Room: 33.6 in.
Luggage Capacity: 14.8 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5

robr2 · May 2004

"Garbage in, garbage out. Data is key, we agree, but who will truly give reliable data?

By the time the traffic info gets to you, it's no longer useful, you're already stuck in that traffic. I think it's very optimistic to think otherwise."

juice - the new tunnel through Boston - http://www.bigdig.com - has real time traffic information using sensors and cameras that allow the state to dispatch tow trucks and the such. In the future, it is supposed to be able to give info on variable message boards. I certainily hope they share the info with the media. In addition, this company - http://www.mobilitytechnologies.com/ - just installed their system in greater Boston that measures vehicle speed and volume and translates into a graphical view for TV stations willing to pay. Looks like they have the capability of eventually integrating with NAV's.

As you said, as long as the data is timely and valid it's useful.

jb_shin · May 2004

FWIW, there was a pilot program that ran in a few areas, and I believe it may have been modeled after the European systems. In Europe, Germany in particular, there are series of poles on the side of autobahn every 50 meters or so that counts the number of cars passing by and transmits to some sort of collection module/center which then broadcasts it over the radio. There is an optional module that works in conjunction with the NAV computer to display the result (higher count, slower speed) and the driver can go around it. While it is not perfect, it works quite well and is being used widely in Europe.

Also, I am not sure that NAV is that much of a distraction. While cell phone without hands free (not headsets, but total hands free by way of integration with the car, voice activation, etc) is illegal in many parts of Europe, NAV is not. I used it for 3 years in Germany and have not heard of NAV causing problems on autobahn where some sections are without speed limit. Indeed, voice guidance works very well.

ateixeira · May 2004

So then they point down into my eyes. ;-)

Ever driven a Miata?

What we need are standard heights for headlights. Trucks are allowed to mount them way too high. Then the HIDs blind you completely.

OTOH, I've had considerate UPS drivers pull directly behind me and actually turn their headlights OFF. Very thoughtful.

G35 really has less rear legroom? Didn't seem like it.

rob: sounds great in theory, but I'll believe it when I see it. My guess is you'll have 30-60 minute old mis-information in practice.

Automated systems have more potential than high school interns typing in data from a traffic report, I'll admit.

Pat nailed it, though, there is a $30k psycological barrier with Subies. Face it, all of 3 people paid more than that for a Subie so far. SVX didn't sell. VDC didn't, either, though the LL Bean sold much better.

If we did see a HID option and a NAV option, let's be honest, where would it show up? You really think they'd offer those on the base Legacy GT?

Fat chance! Look at Subaru's track record. They would be expensive options on the VDC model only. Right now that's $33,395 for a 2005, plus freight, plus HID and NAV and you're talking...

$35,595

That's my best guess. Still want it? Honestly?

I bet 6 people would pay that in the entire USA.

-juice

rsholland · May 2004

Mazda offers a NAV system on the their Impreza-level 3 model. If Mazda can do it so can Subaru. Also, the more popular NAV systems get, the prices will drop. It may be a $2K option now, but I bet in a few years it will drop to ~ $1K, which is about most automatic trannys costs. If the price drops as I predict, NAV systems will explode on to the marketplace.

Bob

ateixeira · May 2004

Sorry I'm resorting to buzzwords, but here goes...

It would take a Paradigm Shift, an earth-shaking revolution, a blunt surprise hostile takeover, at SoA, for them to offer these things as stand-alone options.

Let's face it, Subaru is the KING of packaging. To this day you have to spend $33k plus to get a basic safety feature like stability control, which the Ford Focus offers at about 1/3rd the price.

With that in mind, HIDs and NAV will cost you $36 grand. You buying?

Change the culture first, sure, then offer those. Let's see the moonroof become a stand-alone option first. Leather, too.

-juice

norrmanndo · May 2004

Isn't Subaru offering anything bigger than 2.5 liter 165 HP on the outback or legacy? My wife has been wanting a Subaru, but when I priced them a few years ago I couldn't get one for a good price with an engine that satisfied me. Now it looks like the more powerful engines have been dropped all together. I don't like the looks of the forester (it seems to have a 2.5 turbo offered). 165 HP seens low for 3,300 pounds.

subewannabe · May 2004

Since FHI offers Nav as an option in JDM, clearly they know how to put in in the car. I am inclined to think that we are overlooking why the USDM release is significantly different from the JDM and NZ turbos, and why there is no turbo in the European and Oz release thus far: EPA and CAFE.
Suburu faces stiff penalties when they exceed 2.0L in Europe and many Pacific rim countries, which adds to the cost of the vehicle but doesnt add value. Thus, they created a 2.0L turbocharged engine capable of generating 276 HP! But I can guarantee that engine wouldnt come close to passing NA ( US/CA) emission standards.
Thus we in US now have a 2.5L engine which SoA squeezes 300HP out of in the STi, 250 in the new Legacy Gt and 237 in the FXT ( on paper.....easy there FXT owners ;-)), with enough torque to pin you to the seat...a performance goodie that is far more important in the US car culture than in Europe or the Pacific. To substitute this new engine (and beefed up trannies to deal with all that yummy torque) while maintaining their competetive position in the market, SoA had to decide what they could let go of that MOST US/CA buyers dont want in favor of the performance the market demanded. Yup....there went the MacIntosh, the HID and the NAV. You want them as options in the 06 release: talk up the new Legacy and Outback, get all your friends to buy them, build up a cushion of profitability so that SoA can risk, and its no small risk from a marketing standpoint, selling cars that cost $36K. Mark

robr2 · May 2004

"rob: sounds great in theory, but I'll believe it when I see it. My guess is you'll have 30-60 minute old mis-information in practice."

The mobilitysystems setup has poles about 1/4 mile on the interstate with scanners, solar panels, and wireless transmitters. The information is sent to a database which updates pretty quickly for TV and radio reports. The problem there is that TV and radio only report every few minutes. I think if it were integrated with NAV systems and variable message boards, you'd get the information much quicker.

It's all about the willingness to spend money.

rob999 · May 2004

The 2.5 na (165 hp) is the base engine / base models.
2.5 turbo and 3.0 H6 are available in the Limited and Bean models, respectively

rsholland · May 2004

How much are those features on Subies sold in other markets such as Japan and Europe? If Subaru can market them there, why not here?

As to "Am I buying?" Not yet, but I might if it were offered in a Forester or Impreza.

If Subaru wants to be perceived as a "premium" brand, those items are almost required to at least be "available" to those who want them, and who can afford them.

Bob

ateixeira · May 2004

I like the idea, rob, but at least locally they've invested very little on our beltway. I'd love to see that change.

Bob: note I said at SoA! FHI makes the stuff but it's SoA that packages them.

SoA has to get over the idea that expensive and new features have to be grouped together. It's like there is an evil empire that says "hmm, NAV and HIDs are popular, let's group it with these overpriced luxury features (leather, moonroof, MacIntosh) to milk our customers for every last penny they own".

Yeah, BOTH of them.

I won't even open the "premium" can o' worms! ;-)

-juice

ateixeira · May 2004

The bottom line? AWD costs about $1750 in competitors' cars. Subarus are being compared directly to 2WD models, so they carry that size price disadvantage.

If they truly want to be viewed as a premium automaker, their cars will have to cost $1750 *more* than the average price of a car, across the board. You can't have it all, not for free.

Not everyone here would be happy with that.

-juice

robr2 · May 2004

"I like the idea, rob, but at least locally they've invested very little on our beltway. I'd love to see that change."

juice - I was actually rather impressed on my recent FLA to Boston return trip. In MD just north of DC, there was an accident that was snarling traffic. The variable message boards actually advised what was happening, where it was, and what to do. The ones in Boston seem to be used on for things like: "Go Pats", "Toll Increase Effective Monday", "Left Lane Passing Only - $100 Fine", and my all time favorite "Tdilc #i^ *(k;ej".

bigelm · May 2004

about this NAV and HID topic.

Fact is that it would not cost Subaru much because they already offer this to the overseas market. Come on people, put your thinking caps on...

How much do you think it would cost Subaru to 'tweek' the NAV and HID's for the US market? If they didn't offer it overseas then of course I wouldn't expect it to arrive here. But the fact that they do have it, it's totally unacceptable that it's not even an OPTION here. Like what was mentioned before, everyone is so used to Subaru crying that they can't afford to bring this or that to the US market, now it's become 'accepted' in North America. Heck, if they can get involved with GM for other technical projects, then why not for this?

Subaru can forget about making an impact if they're mentality is "we only hit 1% of the car industry market".

I believe that if Subaru was to offer NAV and HID's, it wouldn't sticker at $35-$36k as people have mentioned. Fact of the matter is, because consumers like you and I are finally realizing that they are going to get jerked in comparison to other car makes offering more for the same of the VDC model, heck, it's a no brainer.

As much as I love AWD, it's not an obligation to have; especially those who live in warmer climate. Subaru has to suck up all the incentives they're offering because they KNOW they're losing $$$. I'm sure if they would've priced their vehicles right in the beginning, they wouldn't be offering these ridiculous prices now. SOA needs a price adjust and stop crying 'wolf' ~ like some people here.

Another thing, I don't know about how these car manufacturers measure their interior dimensions but the G35, in person, has alittle more room than the Legacy GT. Don't ask me why on paper it's different; I speak from booty experience. :-p

ateixeira · May 2004

my all time favorite "Tdilc #i^ *(k;ej"

Now *that* is the type of data I expect from my government!

SoA is very conservative by nature. I've met several of their employees and they tend to tip-toe in with new features and new models.

Remember when Bob Lutz used to drive new models through shattering glass? You just don't see that.

Maybe someone needs to give them a swift kick to spark up their enthusiasm.

-juice

rsholland · May 2004

about SOA's conservative culture...

But the fact remains, if they are to be perceived as being "premium," then you have to have the goods to back that up.

Frankly I'd be VERY surprised if NAV and HIDs didn't show up for MY06 on top Legacys and Outbacks. That gives SOA a year with the new '05 model to get the customer used to Subaru being more of an upscale brand.

Bob

ateixeira · May 2004

Well, I don't agree with the move upmarket to begin with. Forget the whole premium thing and offer performance and value. I want substance, not frills.

I think we'll see either a VDCn model, at $35 grand, mind you, or they'll just wrap the NAV option into the VDC model and up the price by a grand.

I also boldly predict that it will be the slowest selling Subaru model.

-juice

alpha01 · May 2004

Check out Need-Desire.com. Depending on the trim line and body style, the 2005 Legacy/Outback offer the 2.5L 168 hp normally aspirated engine, the 2.5L 250hp turbo version of that engine, and a 3.0L H6 rated at 250 hp.

If you want a Legacy, its possible to get a 2.5L Turbo.

Whatever you may have read that claimed the non-turbo 2.5L H4 was the only engine available.. was flat out wrong.

~alpha

atlgaxt · May 2004

Subaru is missing the boat not offering Navigation systems as an option. From what I can tell, the going rate is $2k, for probably a couple of hundred dollars worth of electronics. They are missing out on a pretty sweet profit margin.

Now, I would never pay that price, but like everything else, I am sure the price will drop and then I will look into it. But the point is, enough people appear to be interested right now, so Subaru is really missing out, especially if they are selling this in other markets.

natethomas · May 2004

In regards to the issue of navigation I would recommend the Garmin Streetpilot III. While an in-dash NAV system is nice I think that having a device like the streetpilot that can be taken from your own car to a rental car is wonderful. I used my Streetpilot last summer to go on a 7000 mile trip without getting lost once. Plus it can be found for around $600 now (as compared to the $1000 I paid two years ago). Subaru tends to charge way too much for their packages anyway (especially the 17" wheels for the WRX).

zoomer1 · May 2004

It was meant to refer to the price of a loaded G35x out the door.

Not to imply that the Legacy should cost that or that people will spend that amount. No way No how for the '05 model.

When the O/B VDC came out they were charging about $35K but about 4 months later the price dropped to about $30K and then it became $1K to $2K below the Passat V6 4Motion Wagon--$28K give or take. That O/B includes almost all the goodies minus Navi.

I don't know why SOA would want to keep the price below $30K--does $29.9K really sound better? Maybe, but to whom? Is it to differentiate from the O/B prices? Or is SOA under orders from GM to keep the prices at a certain level to not compete with other GM family models (far fetched but plausible given the Ford/Jag, VW/Audi, and DC/Mercedes experience).

I would seriously consider the '05 Legacy as a done deal at $30K (give or take $1K) with Navi and VDC.

Bring the European Model here SOA! Flat-6 could be excused!

kevin111 · May 2004

"I don't know why SOA would want to keep the price below $30K--does $29.9K really sound better? Maybe, but to whom? Is it to differentiate from the O/B prices? Or is SOA under orders from GM to keep the prices at a certain level to not compete with other GM family models (far fetched but plausible given the Ford/Jag, VW/Audi, and DC/Mercedes experience)."

- The $30K is a limit people have on pricing. Many people, when budgeting for a new car, look at what they can afford at a certain price level. $30K WILL be a ceiling for some people. Yes, they may stretch a little more above $30K, but if the cars above that level do not seem to be worth the extra cost, they will stay at or below $30K. This is what Subaru is trying to do. This is probably a good reason why the WRX did so well. It could/can be had for under $25K (before tax and license), and thus will appear in a different competition to the over $25K croud.

Think about it, A base G35, C230, 325i, IS300, CTS and TSX can be had for under $30K. Yet, you will probably not find that many people cross-shopping these cars with a WRX. I would have if my budgeting was different.

hondafriek · May 2004

Actually,if you look at all merchandise not just cars you will never see something priced at $30 even it will always be $29.95 or $29.99.The reason is all physcological.

Just last year in Canada Chrysler was advertising minivans at less than $20K, the actual price was $19999, but they did not cross the $20k physcological barrier.

There have been all sorts of marketing studies to justify pricing stuff like this.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · May 2004

$30k is a real psycological barrier.

Going from $27k to $29k, no biggie, close enough. $29k to $30k? WHOA....

We got the new Palm/GPS for our departing Director, it was $600 or so and very cool. Color with voice controls, plus portable.

Oh, and it's a Palm!

-juice

trevian2 · May 2004

All car companies try to psychologically appeal to consumers. I remember advertising for the Infinity I30 when it came out, claiming that you could have a luxury car for 30,000.

Honda has a DX civic in its lineup so it can advertise a low starting price for the civic - does anyone actually buy this car, no, but it gets the consumer in the showroom.

I heard about Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth putting out a stripped minivan a few years ago so they could claim to have the lowest priced minivan.

The point is that by going above the $30k threshold, there is a threat of not even bringing the consumer into the show room. Where any car salesman will tell you that the feel of the wheel seals the deal.

I personally don't care all that much, just trying to help explain reasoning.

I am trying to reason my dad into a Legacy GT Limited when his A6 2.7T comes off lease - he's way too much into brand image, but the Legacy sounds sweet.

ateixeira · May 2004

They'll advertise the base prices for the Legacy GT. If they actually do begin to offer those items a-la-carte (I mean NAV and HIDs), then that strategy might work. They'll still advertise the base price, and those who want that stuff can get it.

But like I said, Subaru is notorious for packing things up to pad the price. I bet when it does arrive it'll be a VDC exclusive.

-juice

ntk1 · May 2004

My local dealer has a Atlantic blue sedan (N/A) at his showroom, I will look at it tonight to see if I like the color and will post my views later. My original intention was to get the silver (in sedan GT MT guise) but the first GT's arriving all seem to be Atlantic blue (where are the silver's going ?)

ateixeira · May 2004

Beautiful color, my fave...

-juice

njswamplands · May 2004

i want to be a departing director and get that gps/palm also. a great buy per the last consumer reports.

kens · May 2004

Catching up here, but is it true that the June edition car mags are showing up without any mention of the Legacy or OB?

That's very disappointing.

Ken

austin91 · May 2004

It seems this discussion board should be re-named to "Bash the Legacy/Outback because they don't have NAV or HID". Look, the Legacy is a great car and Subaru is a great car company.

People buy Subarus because they want a different kind of car. They want something that can travel any road under any condition. They want safety. And they want something that's affordable. I really don't think that Subaru is in the business of making luxury automobiles just because they offer leather seats and a sunroof. So lets not compare this car to a TL or a G35. And let's definitely not compare it to an Accord or Camry. That's the beauty of it: it's in a class by itself. Either you want it or you don't.

I'll buy a 2.5i Legacy, and I'll do it for several reasons. First off, it's one of the safest cars on the road. Also, AWD is a must have for going to the mountains, and a great safety feature all its own. And I live in California and will be buying a PZEV vehicle which will make me feel good about not contributing to the smog I breathe in every day.

Let's give Subaru and the Legacy a break, huh?

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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