Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

ateixeira · June 2004

For Karen:

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2343a.shtml

My favorite part:

we don't think that Subaru will relinquish its position as leader of the crossover segment anytime soon

6.8 ain't bad 0-60 for an automatic. The allroad (7.4) or XC70 (8.5) can't match that, nor can they match the fuel mileage of the XT.

-juice

kens · June 2004

I just saw the latest episode reviewing the 05 OBXT this weekend too.

I thought it was strange that Motorweek, perhaps one of the most conservative reviewers, managed to best C&D's 0-60 time of 7.1 seconds. I'm wondering if that's in any way related to what I experienced on my test drives. Some 5EATs just seemed quicker than others.

Also, does anyone know if C&D factors in elevation at all? I believe their tests were held up in Lake Tahoe -- a 5000 ft elevation difference might have played a factor.

The braking was a bit of a let down in an otherwise glowing review. I thought it was due to the OE tires as well as the visible dive. C&D also measured some longish brake distances too.

Ken

self_mechanic · June 2004

Check out the 05 XT Outback review at Motor Week web site. The review has been posted.

Alland

luck11 · June 2004

Thanks Craig. Cabin fitration is a must on my next vehicle.

cbell · June 2004

Thank you, kens. We are quite happy with the GT so far. I bent some of my own car-buying rules to get it; but, the value is so obviously there, and I decided to put happiness first. =-)

   I haven't seen any other Legacies out on the road yet, although I have seen several 2005 Outbacks. I predict that both models will be somewhat harder to come by in PDX, once awareness reaches critical mass. I doubt that many people will get close to invoice here.

   As for the cargo area outlet: After checking Subaru's website carefully, it seems clear that only the Outback gets the third 12V receptacle. That's okay, since nobody ever claimed otherwise. Again, this is my only disappointment so far, and I'm very persnickety.

   The first GT wagon that I test-drove was silver / charcoal, which looks very sharp on the Legacy. Good luck with your buying experience kens, and I hope that you will like the wagon as much as we do.

   -cheers, cbell

ash13 · June 2004

After reading all the posts just thought I would chime in. Just put in an order for a GT 5EAT, spoiler, pop equip package 1, and all weather mats, for 26,600. Might have been able to do better but it would have been much more of a hassle. Car drives like a dream. Smooth acceleration considering it is a turbo. Couldn't deal with a manual in DC traffic, probably wouldn't have wanted one anyways considering how great this one drives and the sportshift. Almost got a WRX a year ago and now I am glad I waited. Hope the coupon book follows shortly to really complete this package.
What have been the impressions on the stereo? I didn't think it was bad but was not blown away by it. Anyone looking into getting it switched out? With what?

luck11 · June 2004

I haven't had the opportunity to test drive yet, but I too am interested in impressions of the stereo system.

I switched out the factory deck on my 00 OB, kept the OEM speakers and it made a HUGE difference. Of course, as has been mentioned, the current configuration where the deck is integrated into the 'console' will make a switch rather difficult unless an aftermarket option becomes available.....any word on the street?

kens · June 2004

Thanks, I think I'm going to love my GT wagon. I also ordered mine in Silver/Charcoal and it should be here any day now.

Ken

kens · June 2004

I've heard that there is a replacement center console cover sold in Japan for Legacy owners that want to swap in their own stereos. I'm not sure if it will be offered in the US quite yet.

Ken

ateixeira · June 2004

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2343a.shtml

Jamie (aka Subie Gal) said they had a face plate in Japan that let you install any Double-DIN sized stereo, but she wasn't sure if there were selling it here yet.

-juice

goneskiian · June 2004

I'm quite happy with how the stereo sounds. I've got the additional subwoofer/amplifier in mine and though I'm not, by any means, an audiophile, it sounds great to me!

Cheers!
-Ian

snowbird · June 2004

I second that. IMHO, no car can be considered safe unless it can brake reasonably well.

paisan · June 2004

I think they have replacement face plates so you can swap out the stereo. We shall see how it goes.

-mike

subaru_team · June 2004

here - the sensors should allow for the airbag to work as long as the weight on the seat is over
80 lbs. The car you sat in may need an adjustment to the "body integrated unit" that is new to the dealers. There is a special tool and a series of weights (SOA supplied) to set the sensors. If you call us at 1-800-SUBARU3, we can check into that particular situation with the dealer to make sure they have it set correctly.

Thanks!

Patti

rsorganize · June 2004

Anyone have any experience installing satellite radio in the '05s? Don't really want to set one on the dash. Without tape capability, would need to put in fm modulator to get one of the 'take-home' models. Would like to avoid additional clutter and more wires running here and there.

Thought it would fit nicely in the storage space above the center vents. A local car stereo dealer thought they could do that and connect to the back of the installed stereo. So...wondered what you all thought about that? Any risk to having local stereo dealers take out the panels and make the connections? Any tips/ideas. As always...thanks, in advance.

BTW: After the first week and roughly 800 mi., the 3.0R VDC Wagon has been great! Fast, quiet, great handling. Even my 13-year old - who wanted the OB XT MT - is coming around. He likes the sportshift, especially on the Interstate. It sure does make the car seem much quicker. A little anxiety about the seats. Shape is much different than my Volvo's, so I'll have to get used to them and break them in. The side supports make them feel somewhat narrow. Feels like quibbling, at this point. A great car...and no more worrying about the next warning light on my XC (and the mortgage-sized bill to fix it).

Peace.

kmartin · June 2004

Thx, Jiuce...already bookmarked it. I just finished watching it on the Speed channel a few minutes ago. Good review overall.

I, too, am puzzled by the brakes comments. I have found the ABS brakes on my 2.5i very responsive, and not at all mushy (almost touchy, compared to my old 99 Forester and to my folks' Park Avenue, which I also drive frequently). Not even a hint of softness.

I'll put that link up on my site tonight. -KarenM-

http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

kmartin · June 2004

Anyone seen what the 0-60 might be in the base 2.5i engine? 9 seconds? 10? A minute and a half ? :-)

Maybe I don't really want to know....-KarenM-

leochan · June 2004

I broke down and placed a deposit down for an 05 GT LTD silver auto wagon factory ordered (popular option#1, floor mats, rear mats, air filtration system and wheel locks). Although still a tad bit nervous (or is it anxious), looking forward to joining the Subaru family (thanks to Brian for the 3 yr service coupon). I just won't be able to sleep for the enxt 4 to 6 weeks...

outbacker2k2 · June 2004

I WAS dead-set on an XT but after reading these reports of bad brakes I'm starting to reconsider the GT Wagon instead... I know they are close to each other but I could agonize over this for a week and still not find resolution.

I love the XT's looks and ground clearance but the GT seems to have far superior handling and no brake problems. Argh!

outbacker2k2 · June 2004

Hey Leo, excellent choice. I'm going crazy over a few nits between what is essentially the same car. I know I'd love the GT but I've gotten used to my '96 OB Wagon's ground clearance. Maybe some of you astute researchers out there know: What was the brake distance on the older model OB wagons?

ssminton · June 2004

I have been an XM Satellite Radio fan for nearly 3 years now. In that time, I moved my clunky 1st generation XM gear from a Mercury Mountaineer to my Honda Pilot.

I took delivery of my Pilot on Jun 3, 2002... one of the first off the lot. I immediately took both cars to a reputable mobile electronics dealer to do the removal of my phone/XM gear from the Mountaineer and move it to the Pilot. I was very concerned because I knew the crew had never even seen a Pilot let alone worked on one. These folks are professionals and handle every panel with care. I was horrified when I saw my day old dash in pieces, but they got the gear installed, and I have not had a problem since.

The newer XM gear is much lower volume and should be a cinch for a professional mobile electronics dealer to install. Understand, I have basically a unit the size of a home rack DVD player in my Pilot's dash. They did such a good job of installing it that I cannot even find it so I have to disconnect the car battery when my "Beta" gear starts misbehaving.

I am considering purchase of an '05 Outback. I was disappointed to see that Satellite Radio was not offered. I figured cars in the "outback" need Satellite Radio for good tunes! If the factory radio has an extra input, you should be able to hook the system direct for the best sound. I have been running in FM modulation mode since the Summer of '01, without complaint. Let me know how the install goes!

kmartin · June 2004

RSOrganize: As a teacher of middle school kids, please tell me your 13-year-old isn't the one USING the sport shift! And on the interstate???

(Actually he probably drives better than most people in the Phoenix area :-)

PS: just got back from Starbucks, so I'm a little hyper. BTW: my 05-OB looks great at Starbucks parked next to all the Beamers, Audis, RX300s, Caddies, etc., driven by a lot of rich retirees who live in the nearby Sun Cities communities. The new Subie is getting lots of double-takes :-)

I remember when I bought the 99 Forester...it was months before I saw another one on my side of town. People would literally stop me at gas stations, groceries, malls, etc., and say "Cool! What is it?". Of course, I would give them the whole sales pitch. Now there are Foresters everywhere around here. Meanwhile, it's kind of fun to be the one-of-a-kind Outback for a while.

-KarenM-

leochan · June 2004

Shaun,

I share your agony. I was debating betw/ an 04 FXT and 05GT as well as an 04 CRV (still am even after the deposit) but here's my rationale with regards to the Subaru (for better ot worse). If I were to get a FXT, I would put some upgrades (sway bar and tires for better handling) which would add an additional 2k that would narrow the gap (although you can get a great price at fitzmall.com for either a XT or XT premium to counter my arguement although the specs won't be exactly what I want). The GT is flat out a better handling refined vehicle due to better tires and lower ground clearance (I keep reminding myself it doesn't snow THAT much in DC when I think about the FXT) with a bit more useful storage space (which could be debated).

I need to stop thinking about this or I am going to cancel my order (must not cancel order...must not cancel order...) Good luck Shaun !!

snowbird · June 2004

If this is indeed correct, then it's a real setback for an otherwise excellent car (OBXT).

According to Consumer Reports for 2004, this would put the '05 Subaru Outback, in terms of braking distance, in the same categories as such heavy cars as Ford Expedition (154), Dodge Ram (155), Dodge Durango (155), Chevrolet Trailblazer (154), etc..

On the other hand, Subaru's main competitors scored much better (according to same report). VW Passat (131), Audi A4 Avant (133), BMW 330 (131). Even the 2001 Subaru H6 VDC did better at 138.

So what gives? Let's hope it was a typo! Maybe Auto Week meant 135 feet ??? But seriously, unless this is addressed/clarified by SOA, I will have second thoughts about buying the XT. Does anyone know what the braking distance is like for the Legacy GT wagon? But I really liked the looks of the Outback better.

purduealum91 · June 2004

Why oh why is everyone getting autos! Cmon 5 speed owners, this is ridiculous. To get an auto in a car of this caliber is blasphemy!

stickguy · June 2004

has a lot to do with tires. It's possible whatever suvish tires they put on the outback supply mediocre braking grip.

If you notice the cars you list, the ones with a/t tires did worse, and the ones that did better probably were running on car tires.

A better indication will be the 2.5i base model with standard tires.

snowbird · June 2004

If it's just tires, couldn't SOA put on better tires? After all, we're talking about $30,000+ here. And why did its own 2001 model brake so much better (138 feet), which cost less?

radian · June 2004

So yesterday I picked up my Regal Blue 2.5GT sedan (MT) after 2.5 months of waiting. I've taken some pics, but they won't be up 'til later today. Here are some of my initial impressions:

-Regal Blue Pearl is DARK. I have my car parked next to an blue STi, and from a distance my car looks black. Normally I wouldn't complain and it'd be the ideal color for me, but my wife thought after 3 black cars it was time for not black. It's barely not black.

-The short-throw shifter is short, precise, and does take some effort (but it feels very solid). This is my first MT car, and the only other manual I've driven is an '86 Corolla, so I don't have much to compare too. The shifter tends to vibrate quite a bit while in gear.

-The car is FAST. It starts off pretty normal (I've owned 2.5 boxers for the last 3 years), but quickly builds steam and is screaming to redline in no time. Anyone who doesn't think this car is fast is spoiled. Of course, I thought a modified WS6 Trans Am (~400hp) was too fast (felt unsafe).

-Between the power and MT, the car is a little intimidating for me right now. I'll be very happy growing (skill-wise) into it though.

-The car is quiet, but it doesn't seem much quieter than my 2000 GT wagon. Like the power, I guess it's all relative.

Overall I'm super happy with the car. It looks and drives awesome.

PS. It has dual-zone auto climate control.

PPS. Thanks Mark for the coupon! Got it yesterday.

kevin111 · June 2004

"Why oh why is everyone getting autos! Cmon 5 speed owners, this is ridiculous. To get an auto in a car of this caliber is blasphemy! "

-Hmmm, maybe commuting and stop and go traffic? Stoplights? It does wear on your legs. Also, I know the majority of cars bought in the US are Auto by a wide margin.

Hey, there is even an auto for a Porsche 911 turbo and the Ferrari 575M and 360 (OK, auto manual, but still).

kens · June 2004

Well, as the product label suggests, it's a Grand Touring model and I guess some folks (including me) were okay giving up some performance for a more relaxed crusing experience.

The only reason why I was okay with getting an auto this time around was that the 2.5T produces enough power to still make it interesting even with a slushbox. Had it been a WRX, no way.

Also making the decision a bit easier was the fact that we're comparing a relatively sophisticated 5-speed auto and VTD compared to a relatively old-design 5MT and VC.

So, I give up some performance but I have a vehicle that is more family friendly for me but still retains a good amount of fun.

Ken

rob_m · June 2004

Maybe because dear wife said ... "If God wanted me to work 3 pedals, he would have given me 3 legs"!

self_mechanic · June 2004

According to Road and Track, 60-0 for 98 Outback is 134 ft.

Alland

njswamplands · June 2004

LOL

salbaby1972 · June 2004

Regal Blue is a very interesting color. In super bright summer daylight, when you lok at it in some angles it looks like the WRX blue, at some angles it gets very dark.

It is a very cool color. The pearl/metalic effect gives it many personalities.

dsattler · June 2004

Maybe many are getting suto because manuals are hard to find. When I bought mine 2-3 weeks ago there was ONE GT Limited wagon with a manual in the Baltimore metropolitan area among several dealers. One. There were several with the auto trans. This might not be true in other areas, and it might be different for sedans.

cbell · June 2004

   Why the 5EAT? Good question. We're becoming a one-car family, so the new vehicle had to do it all.

   My first inclination was to get the 5MT (the wife was open to the idea); but, when we sat in the Legacy, she was too short to reach the clutch pedal. This problem was exacerbated by the lack of a telescoping steering wheel (and no available pedal extenders).

   After that, we both considered the 5EAT. We do a lot of city driving, and we were both tired of rowing gears in traffic. I had to test drive the Legacy GT a couple of times to familiarize myself with SportShift, and I was pleasantly surprised with it's responsiveness.

   Once we realized that there was simply no way she could comfortably drive the manual, and observing that the 5EAT seemed like a fine choice on it's own merits, then I was comfortable getting my GT with 5EAT. Steering-wheel buttons are very nice.

   The bottom line: Even with the 5EAT, this car's acceleration still catches me off-guard. Having driven old rust-buckets in the past, I actually scared myself the first couple of times that I opened it up. Don't worry, I didn't revm beyond 4K... for long. =-)

   Maybe I'll get a Legacy STi with a 6MT in a couple of years, but until then, I'll be very happy with the Legacy GT. It has plenty of power to make up for any AWD and 5EAT losses. If this isn't enough fun, then I should probably be on a closed track, anyways.

   -cheers, cbell

stickguy · June 2004

Well, the dealer I stopped at today had at least 2 GT limited sedan sticks. Also at least one wagon stick, but I can't remember the model.

I got the test drive coupon yesterday, so I stopped in at lunch to get my $25 validated. They happened to have a 5 speed GT lim. sedan (bright red) in the front row, so I drove that (hey, the salesman insisted)!

Anyway, light years ahead of the last Legacy I drove (a '99 I think, test drove in 2001), and no comparison to the 1992 Legacy wagon we owned. Just a real nice car. COmfy seats, excellent interior, smooth, comfy and quiet. Excellent light clutch, nice shifter (although I wouldn't really consider it "short").

Best part, of course, was the power. Slight lag as the turbo spooled up, but then it pulled like a freight train. And once the revs were up, tremendous smooth, effortless pull. I was constantly going well faster than I thought (or should have been). Not even much reason to shift.

Only real quibble is the price (maybe just from the label aspect). The one I drove stickered for 29.7K, so 31K with an automatic. Lot of car for the money, but that is running into some serious compitition, but from Europe and Japan.

The 2.5i seemed like a better value. There were a few wagons with AT that seemed to be in the 23-24K range, so a whole different ballgame. I guess the turbos are intended to be niche players?

Anyhow, an impressive car, if you are looking for a sporty/semi-luxury (at least loaded with goodies) mid-size sedan. Don't know if I would get it over a TL, TSX, or a few others, but certainly a contender.

Oh, and get the five speed. Doesn't seem like this clutch will put much strain on your left leg.

rochcom · June 2004

This weekend, I finally got to drive a new GT wagon with MT. What fun! Shorter and smoother shifts than in my Forester and LOTS of power. My major complaints: It is too quiet. Part of the fun of driving my former Saab turbo was hearing the turbo whine. Also, I could do without the automatic climate control and the radio controls could use a redesign.

The dealer was running a test drive promotion and actually giving away a wagon. [I didn't win :--( ]Out of 14 test vehicles, only 2 had manuals. The dealership assistant manager said that 10 years ago, about half of sales were manuals. Now it is about 15 % across the various models.

stickguy · June 2004

thats part of Subaru going both upscale and mainstream. No longer the funky counter-culture bunch they used to be.

andmoon · June 2004

ron m, your wife doesn't use both feet driving automatics does she? ( I use left foot to brake or I'll go for the clutch sometimes)
Don

ntk1 · June 2004

Subaru are advertising the Legacy in this weeks edition of "newsweek" It is a double page spread mainly angled at its German rivals, it claims a 0-60 of 5.8 for the Legacy GT MT

Secondly - I have noticed a hesitancy in my Leg GT MT in accelerating in 2nd and 3rd - almost a jerkiness. The car has about 350 miles on it so I am changing up at 4K in accordance with the instructions. This lack of smoothness is also evident if I cruise at say 30 MPH in 3rd - almost feels like a slight mis-fire - any ideas ?

ps I am familiar with turbo engines (had 3) but this seems a little odd

Pete

kmartin · June 2004

Car and Driver has the stopping distance for 70-0 listed as "BRAKING: 700 mph @ impending lockup: 204 ft"...not sure how that relates to 60-0.

In all the reviews I have found, there is nothing but praise for the new, improved braking system. Maybe the Motor Week report was just a fluke?

Here are some brief quotes. Hopefully this will put some of you at ease:

------

newcartestdrive.com: Brakes in the various models are up to their powerplants' potential, with the top-of-the-line GT Limited well deserving of its high-performance componentry. The brakes are easy to modulate. Winding down a mountain road in Southern California, we found the brakes, suspension and engine in the GT wagon easy to coordinate, allowing for smooth driving that didn't upset our passengers.

edmunds.com: Engineers also installed a new brake booster to give the pedal a firmer, more progressive feel.

caranddriver.com: When they found that the previous brake booster was expanding under pressure, Subarus engineers used tie rods (like those holding a kettledrum together) to stop it. The result is a more predictable brake-pedal feel....BRAKING: 700 mph @ impending lockup: 204 ft

automotive.com: It'll gobble up straight stretches of pavement at high rates of speed, then endure hard braking before carving around curves at speeds well above posted advisory limits, with easily anticipated understeer when pushed.

canadiandriver.com: The engines, chassis, brakes, steering - everything about the Legacy elicited approving murmurs from the globe's major journalists...Legacy's steering and brakes responded well to the brutal treatment...the brakes finally have the firm, positive feel we've been asking for years of Subaru.

canadiandriver.com: What's neat is that it's an equally satisfying car to drive on a winding road, thanks to its low centre of gravity, responsive steering, multilink rear suspension, and significantly improved braking system.What's neat is that it's an equally satisfying car to drive on a winding road, thanks to its low centre of gravity, responsive steering, multilink rear suspension, and significantly improved braking system.

consumerguide.com: Brakes feel strong on all [models]

subdriven.com: Brake feel was improved drastically as well, providing more feedback and response.

thestar.com (Toronto Star): better turning, better braking and better performance all around compared to the old Legacy, which was no laggard in the driving fun stakes to begin with.

wheels.ca: the brakes finally have the firm, positive feel we've been asking for years of Subaru.

jsonline.com: They feature improvements ranging from a firmer brake pedal feel to stiffer mounting for the steering mechanism and such weight-saving devices as an aluminum hood and tailgate for the wagon.

stickguy · June 2004

decided what the power delivery on the GT 5MT reminded me of: the G35 6 speed. Not off the line, but once moving, the way a stab on the go pedal gave an instantaneous, smooth and linear surge forward. Much lighter clutch though.

paisan · June 2004

I like this but haven't seen it in person. Is it almost a grey? That's what I'm looking for a steel grey that's my favorite color.

-mike

rsholland · June 2004

No Mike. It's a very dark, almost navy blue.

Bob

dsattler · June 2004

Mike, the Atlantic blue has a bit of gray in it, though I wouldn't say as dark as a steel gray. As Bob said, the Regal blue is close to Navy Blue, though a touch brighter. Some folks on other boards have said in some light the Regal Blue looks almost black, though I haven't seen that on mine.

paisan · June 2004

guess i'll have to check it out in person. Probably just go with silver.

-mike

legacy191 · June 2004

The reason we are getting the 5EAT is two fold, one because my wife has this problem of wearing three inch heels to work every day and to she doesn't want to learn how to drive one. So with that said Regal Blue will be the color on a GT Limited sedan in September.

P.S. I have a friend who can do wonders with an auto tranny !!!!!

Tony T

reils · June 2004

I've had my 05 OB XT LTD 5MT for 4 days now and have loved every minute. It's a wonderful car: poised, graceful, tenacious, powerful. I've driven on all roads, including some quick runs on seasonal and very muddy roads, and have the following impressions:

1. MPG: As advertised. I averaged exactly 25 MPG on a 9 hour drive that was 10% city, 60% single lane, 30% highway.

2. Radio: I actually had to look under the driver's seat to make sure there *wasn't* a subwoofer. The bass is that good.

3. A/C: The controls are not very intuitive, not quite Audi/VW caliber, IMHO.

4. Engine: Brilliant. It's fun knowing that you're the fastest car on the road. There's no low-end grunt -- only the STi has that -- but you can eliminate the turbo lag with judicious shifting.

5. Handling: I absolutely *loved* driving on the rough stuff. The balance between handling and off-road capability is superb. The XT was an easy choice versus the GT.

6. Noise: None. I'm good with a manual tranny, but I've stalled this thing twice because I can't hear the engine.

7. Transmission: Beautiful clutch feel. The Volvo V70R's clutch was awful -- hard, firm, no soul. The OB XT's is nicely weighted and easy to engage. The transmission is notchy and only slightly rubbery -- a huge improvement over all the other Subaru manuals I've driven over the past 10 years, save the STi.

8. Sunroof: The very best feature of this car, one that separates it from everything else on the road. You can adjust the sunroof to almost any position you want.

That's it for now. Thanks, everybody.

goneskiian · June 2004

ntk1,
I notice the same slight hesitation. It's a very slight stutter that quickly disappears with a bit more gas. Could be that the engine is in the transition between on and off boost. Then again, I don't know enough about these engines (or any for that matter) to diagnose this by feel.

I'm hoping a chip reflash with smooth things out. I'll likely go with the Cobb AccessPort and software (www.cobbtuning.com).

Cheers!
-Ian

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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