Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

subewannabe · November 2003

If your source is right, getting a look at the US spec Legacy GT in Detroit will relieve a whole lot of penned up anxiety on this side of the pond.

I am still trying to keep my cool and wait until the 05 Forester and Legacy GT models are on the lot for side by side comparison. I was even back to looking at a NA Forester with MT for better milage...but no XS Premium Package with MT) Knowing I cant get that combination in any of those vehicles now makes it a lot easier to be patient and see what the options will be on the 05 lineup. I can even throw the new 3.0 Outback into the mix.
My only regret is that I didnt get an 02 WRX wagon in the meantime.....

mark

ateixeira · November 2003

Join our chat, there's more good news on that front. I think we'll get a pretty good look at the GT.

-juice

otis123 · November 2003

New Australian Subaru Outback warranty is listed as 36 months, unlimited kilometers.

If Subaru is really serious about U.S. upscale market they also need to up the warranty to a minimum of 36 mo. / unlimited miles. All the competitors they are aiming at with the premium level are more in the 48 mo. / 50,000 - 60,000 miles range.

That premium level also needs a driver memory seat. I can see the reviews now - "who made the decision to leave out a driver memory setting? - they left it out 4 yrs. ago when they introduced the LLBean and the VDC. Do they know they exist?"

Don't see the 7th speaker (subwoofer) listed either? Or is it understood these days, as most cars in this $ range have them?

I'm a little worried with all the work they are doing with the H6 engine. Mine has been flawless so far - 51K - no leaks, etc... [knock on plastic wood]

BTW, Subaru mechanic last night told me the H6 was built by GM for Subaru - and in the process GM liked what they saw and bought the interest in Subaru. Never knew that...

Ralph

rangner · November 2003

Don't worry, they're just making the H-6 more efficient by using variable valve timing, and to tune it for low end torque.

I seriously doubt GM had any part in the making of the H-6. Subaru has years and years of experience with flat configurated engines, why would they need any help, and why GM. GM has no experience with flat engines. Porsche could, but not GM.

Eric

bugpit · November 2003

A number of articles have indicated that the new Outbacks have substantially improved fuel mileage. I've been trying to figure out just how much better.

The following Austrlian Subaru page:

http://www.subaru.com.au/news/?newsid=11894

shows an average of 10.9 Liters/100 km as combined fuel mileage for the new Outback 3.0R. My calculations show that to be equal to 21.6 MPG, which doesn't seem different at all from the current 3.0 model.

Anybody have any insight as to mileage on the new models?

ateixeira · November 2003

The H6 is made at SIA, that might have misled the mechanic, but he's wrong. The EZ30 boxer is a pure Subaru design.

-juice

subah6 · November 2003

Can't really say about your knee hitting the wheel. I think there is a little more room and I think the wheel can adjust a little higher up. I'm only 5'6" and 152lb so this has never been an issue for me. I know there is more room behind my seat now, probably due to the longer wheel base. Also for your information the back seats backs fold down onto the squab of the back seat. You don't have to tilt the squab forward and then fold the back seat backs onto the squab (if you can understand what I mean). It's now a one move process.

The new Outback H6 is within a few hundred dollars of the old H6 mark, so I assume it will be the same for US/Canada.

Steering feel is different but still that Subaru feel. Weighting about the same. Nicely weighted but better than the old model, hard to describe but just a nice feel. Turning circle is smaller than before too.

The Aussie spec doesn't get the McIntosh at any level in the Outback range. Only the GT gets the McIntosh. There is no subwoofer and the head unit is integrated as part of the dash, so an uograde is nigh impossible. Having said that, when you turn up the wick on the standard system it sounds quite good really. There is seperate tones for bass/mid/high and I don't doubt that there would be an improvement if you installed better speakers. It is better than the old model.

Climate control is no hassle and the fan now has up down buttons and 5 speeds. I think it's better than before. When the whole dash is lit up at night with the red highliting it looks great!

ateixeira · November 2003

In case anyone hasn't heard, Bob and I will be Subaru's guests at the Detroit Show, where they will debut the US-Spec Legacy GT. Jan 6-8. It opens to the public on the 10th.

-juice

qbrozen · November 2003

you lucky bum you!

so does that mean we will get pics the evening of Jan. 6th?

ateixeira · November 2003

Yeah. I'm planning that already. Secured a small notebook and a digital camera. I expect the hotel will have broadband, if so I'll be ready for it.

Pics could be up as early as the 6th, in the eve.

-juice

otis123 · November 2003

Unrelated....

Will someone please help talk me (so I can talk my wife) out of buying an AWD Volvo S60. We have an LLBean now and real like it. Wife wants to replace a 96 Accord NOW (112K) and Volvo has $3K off until year-end. She doesn't want to wait - "now is the time to buy a car" - which is true...

We can get a loaded 2004 AWD S60 for around 31-32K - about what the "premium" (or whatever they will call it) Outback H6 sedan will go for. [Volvo is already running scared of this Japan Car of the Year winner?]

Her boss has had 3 great Volvos w/ no problems (probably a world record...)

Thanks,

Ralph

pathtomax · November 2003

Hello everyone,

I wanted to find out if anyone has any word on the 2005 Outback options for:

OnStar
XM/ Siruis satellite radios.

I know that they new Outbacks have them (I have the H4 LTD so no such luck for me)

Thanks!

wrxsoon1 · November 2003

Michael (pathtomax) - Unfortunately we don't have any details about the 2005 Legacy specifications, options or otherwise. NOTHING has been released regarding these cars and their US trim (and I'm capitalizing for Subaru's benefit not yours). Tune in to these boards in about a month and a half and we'll be able to tell you. ;-)

-Ian

ateixeira · November 2003

Any time is a good time to buy a car. Notice how rebates happen all year long. I would not restrict yourself to any one time of year.

If she's decided, and it's her car, there is not much you can do. Ask her to name her top 3 picks, then go with her to sample those 3 cars. Maybe she'll change her mind.

I'll be seeing the 2005 Legacy, very likely in US-spec trim, on Jan. 6. The Outback, we think, we debut at Chicago in Feb. Brian (subearu) will do and get details for us.

-juice

Kirstie_H · November 2003

juice, we can't WAIT to see your photos, and congratulations to you & Bob on the invitation!

ateixeira · November 2003

Thanks. :-)

Some members want me to post pics live, if there is a WiFi link maybe I could. More likely I'll be posting them up at night.

Who needs sleep?

-juice

mylegacy · November 2003

Don't get me wrong I still like the Legacy but when I found out that G35 sedan had an AWD out, my spine started to tingle(HOOO). what r some of ur thoughts?

So diappointed, couple of weeks ago car show in WA, I got all excited about it. Was hoping that they show the new legacy. Got to their car display, I was like where is it.? nodda, quiet, only a few were looking at the WRX sti.

ateixeira · November 2003

No, it'll debut in Detroit. They save the big debuts for the major auto shows (Detroit, New York, Chicago, and LA).

Subaru wants to put more emphasis on the Legacy (non-Outback), so no surprise that it'll make its american debut at Detroit.

G35x is intriguing, I like it. $33k I think. Let's see how Legacy GT pricing compares to that. Even though it's an Infiniti, pics I've seen of the interiors make me believe the Legacy will be nicer.

-juice

otis123 · November 2003

It's on my short research list... Seems to be in the same ballpark as the "premium" 2005 Outback H6 sedan (will be)? Repair will be more costly - but you get 60K warranty.

Too many choices....

Ralph

rangner · November 2003

Didn't we discuss this awhile ago--that it's not a true AWD--it becomes RWD above low speeds?

Eric

kenoka · November 2003

Not to mention the fact that it will weigh about 3700 lbs. Too porky for my tastes, plus no manual tranny.

hondafriek · November 2003

One of the guys in Australia, Subah6 I think is his user name, recently took delivery of a newH6, he reported that the price was only a few hundred more Australian Dollars that his previous H6.

Hopefully that pricing will also be the case when the new models finally make it to this side of ther pond.

Cheers Pat.

subah6 · November 2003

Yes that was me. Subaru wants to keep pricing as close to the previous model as much as they can according to Subaru Australia. I hope that is the same for you in the US, but I imagine it would be a world wide desire of Subaru.

johntracker · November 2003

I took delivery of an Outback 3.0R Luxury three weeks ago and it was about 2% more expensive than the H6 Luxury it replaced.

At the moment I have two Outbacks, a MY01 2.5 lux and the new 3.0R. The interior, the fit & finish and the ride / handling are FAR superior on the new car. And it has a 180kw (approx 240hp) engine to boot.

otis123 · November 2003

You're killing us!

ateixeira · November 2003

G35x weighs about what the Outback VDC sedan weighs. The OB is cheaper, but not nearly as quick or powerful.

Let's see where the Legacy GT prices end up for 2005.

I've seen cloth, H6 Outbacks for as little as $23.5k. If the next generation is even close to that price, it'll be on my short list, especially if it gets Sportshift and 5 ratios.

Still, I'd rather have a GT, for the sportier suspension. We'll see how the lineup looks soon.

-juice

otis123 · November 2003

I'm trying to be a patient grasshopper...

Ralph

njswamplands · November 2003

subah6 · November 2003

You're obviously in Oz, John. Where abouts? I'm in Sydney.

Lance

kenoka · November 2003

Regarding the Outback VDC: Too porky for my tastes, plus no manual tranny.

sebberry · November 2003

You say that the ride/handling are "FAR superior" on the new H6....

fetch me a drool bucket, and make it quick...

I think the current H6 feels really good, can't wait to test drive a new one...

johntracker · November 2003

Yes, I'm in Sydney too (Northern Beaches).

First nice day here in ages - so I just took the 3.0R for a drive.

John

goneskiian · November 2003

Eric (rangner)- The G35x will have a bias toward RWD (it can shift torque to 0:100 front:rear) but is constantly varying the torque between the front and rear wheels as needed. You're thinking of the "Snow" mode which is activated by the driver and will keep the front:rear bias at 50:50 until 12mph or so to allow you to get going in really slick conditions. Snow mode also reduces throttle sensitivity to keep the wheels from spinning. Actually it sounds like a pretty slick AWD system (no pun intended) too bad it makes the car so durn heavy. The Infiniti website (www.infiniti.com) does a great job of explaining it.

One other fault with the G35x, it doesn't come in a wagon version. So....the wait continues.

On an optomistic note I ran some numbers the other day when a friend told me he ordered an S4 Avant. The S4 Avant weighs 3936 lbs and has 340 hp for a 11.58 lbs/hp ratio. The New Zealand Legacy GT Wagon weighs 1450 kg (3198 lbs) and has 206 Kw (276 hp, I think as I don't know the exact conversion) which works out to 11.59 lbs/hp ratio. Not bad at all. Just makes the wait to find out what we get even harder though. ;-)

-Ian

mylegacy · November 2003

Ian, thanks for the info.
Yeah, the only bummer about the G35 is the weight. I thought of trading in right now for the G35 then trade in for the Legacy when it comes out.
But will lose some money because of depreciation.
Darn it, where's me pot of gold @ the end of the rainbow?

It's a waiting game now.
but great forum.

johnclineii · November 2003

Speaking of waiting game, which comes out first, the Subaru wagons (Legacy/Outback), or the Mazda6 wagon?

ateixeira · November 2003

One thing about Subaru VDC that is have over most competitors is that it can send 100% of the power to either axle. Most are limited to 67% (like Audi/VW) or some number close to that.

Not sure about the G35's.

Also, VDC can get you moving with traction to just one wheel. And it's fully proactive. You drop throttle in a turn, and it shifts power to the front axle before you spin.

Most system react after you begin to spin, when tire traction is already compromised.

Sorry, guess that was 3 things! ;-)

-juice

johntracker · November 2003

Hi,

Not sure if this will work but I just put a few photos of my Outback 3.0R here:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288457513

ateixeira · November 2003

Worked great, thanks.

Love, love that 3-spoke steering wheel. The two-tone interior looks classy and upscale, too.

Wheels should be easy to clean. Did it come with cross bars? It probably will for the US market, anyway. Dual exhausts look good, too.

You even stole my color choice.

)

-juice

subearu · November 2003

How 'bout some pics of the engine? ;-)

Someone likes boxers, eh?

-Brian

johntracker · November 2003

Ok,

Have added a pic of the engine... well the covers over the engine at least. Also a couple more of the inside.

...and one of the dashboard showing me doing 240kph at 8000rpm in eighth gear with every warning light on on the dash. - or it could just be showing the sweep of the tacho and speedo when you turn the ignition on.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288457513

The car came with cross bars but I took them off yesterday - will put them back on soon.

Which ever end of the car you put a boxer in it still seems to go quite well!

subearu · November 2003

That moonroof is huge. I don't know if the US will get the tach/speedo sweep on startup, but it is neat ;-)

How do you like the sportshift AT?

-Brian

rsholland · November 2003

Check John's photo of the new Outback's instruments! 240 kph, at redline, with the cruise control set! And with the the doors open!

Top that bud.

Seriously; John, great photos, and enjoy your new ride! BTW, I like your automotive stable: Outback H-6 & a 911 Carrera. Not too shabby...

Bob

subah6 · November 2003

Subearu,

I don't know about John Tracker, but I find the sportshift brilliant. It is just so much better than the old 4 speed slush box which I think was a bit of a dog. This new set up really works well. Select a gear and it changes very quickly and smoothly. No hesitation at all and with all that new power it really moves! Wheels mag here did a test on it and they managed 0-100kmh (0-62mph) in 7.6sec. That is with two on board and a tank full of gas! The 0-400mt (1/4 mile)comes up in 15.6sec with the same load. Not bad for a 3.0lt 6.

ateixeira · November 2003

There is your "cruise on" button, Bob. Notice that?

Moonroof looks just perfect. Does the front half tilt up, the rear slide in? And then there's no longer anything between the two?

Seriously? That might be my next car. Or maybe a Legacy GT. Depends on US pricing and content. I love it!

That's a lot quicker than the old one, which ran in the 8s range to 60mph (not quite 100 kph).

-juice

only1agan · November 2003

hi
i'm a huge sube fan and have tried to convince my dad to by a subaru outback 2002 last year and failed to.. Why? he said the v6 felt out of steam..he thought it lacked room... very curious to know how significant the elder outback h6 is vs the new one.. and how much more room is there in the new one??? one other ?..how did U justify the price i believe in being able to buy a $30000 subaru but my folks cant justify the fact that buying a Subaru is worth "$30,000".. (I know ur australia but how do U justify this price?"

Thanks

subah6 · November 2003

Juice,

With regards to the moon roof, yes, the front part lifts up at the back and rear part then slides into the roof like the old one. And yes, there is no part in between.

I guess the best way to comment on the new over old is that it is fun to drive whereas the old one could become a bit of a chore to try and get it to move quickly. The new one is just effortless.

only1agan,

The new H6 Outback has a heap more power and as I said above it is effortless. Thats the big difference.

As for room, the new H6 is only 20mm (3/4")longer in the wheel base than the old, so the room between the front to rear wheels inside the car is only marginally bigger. I do believe there is slightly more room between the front to rear seats.

How much room do you need? I am not tall, 5'6" 170cm and have 3 children, 16, 14 & 12. We find there is enough room for a 2-3 hour drive. I put a pod on the roof if I need extra room for luggage, but generally there is enough space for us.
I would rather have the car I want for 50 weeks of the year and put the pod on the roof or maybe borrow a trailer than drive a behemoth all year round just to satisfy our once yearly trip somewhere for the extra room. Actually what we have been doing the last few yearly trips is take 2 cars. Our holiday destination is only 2 hours from home so taking 2 cars is a great idea. Even if it was 3 or 4 hours we'd probably take 2 cars as we take our Dalmatian with us in my Outback and my wife takes her Hyundai with two of the children and I take the other child. Having 2 cars on holiday is very helpful sometimes.

So whats the big deal in paying US$30,000 for a Subaru? To judge a cars value you have to judge it with other cars of similar worth, not just because its a Subaru. Here in Oz people pay AU$55,000 for a BMW 318i. This is a 4 cylinder rear wheel drive with half the power of the H6. Now I ask you what would you rather, the BMW for AU$55K or the H6 for AU$50k?
The H6 is fully imported from Japan and the quality is superb and just as good as the BMW. A friend has a BMW 325 coupe and cost him AU$80k and I let him drive my H6. He said it was quicker, smoother, as good quality, and much better value. His next car maybe a Subaru H6 or GT, he was that impressed!

johntracker · December 2003

I find the sportshift works just fine. It compares very well with the steptronic on my last BMW 330ci - and, only1agan, that was a car that had the same sized engine yet cost double what the Outback did.

I generally run 2 cars and one is always for practicality. The latest Outback is a bit of a conundrum as it is possibly more fun, and a better performer, than several sports coupes I have owned.

Subah6 is dead right - compare the H6 to what is available at the price in the US and draw your own conclusions. I have lived in the UK and USA and realise that the difference between various brands of cars is not always the same from country to country but...

...here I was shopping around 50k - 60k AUD (including all taxes) and the short list came down to the Subaru, BMW 318i sedan and the Audi A4 Avante (wagon).

The build quality was very similar in all three cases but only one didn't come with a circa 130hp four cylinder engine (it also had a lot more space inside).

Probably the biggest wrap I can give the Outback is that if I go somewhere by myself (as distinct from with a pile of luggage or people where I don't have a choice) I am happy to take either current car I have - the 911 6 speed manual or the Outback auto. With 235Kw the 911 is quicker but the 180kw OBW is no slouch and is a heap of fun to boot.

John

ateixeira · December 2003

Moonroof sounds perfect. I like 'em big, the only catch with the big Forester roof is that you cannot tilt it.

This new one seems to have it all.

-juice

lark6 · December 2003

Wow. Those photos of the new Outback look great. At least in appearance (don't know for certain, I can't touch it in pics) it looks like Subaru has made leaps ahead in quality of interior materials.

I'm not traditionally an early adopter - I like to give a new model a year to work through its teething pains - but that will give the Forester XT a run for my money when the time comes to trade in old paint.

Ed

goneskiian · December 2003

Sounds great juice, but is it available with a MT? Though the new sportshift is sounding tempting... ;-)

Then again, the G35x isn't available with MT either.

only1agan - I think the new Legacy's will be very competitive at the $30K price point. Especially if you want a wagon. What other choices are there? Audi, VW, and maybe Mazda (I'm comparing AWD wagons). I think you father will be mighty impressed with the redesigned Legacy and Outback. Especially if you got him to check out a 2002. Interior room has increased a bit, but interior quality has taken a huge leap (from what I've been able to ascertain).

-Ian

p.s. johntracker - Thanks for the pics. Sounds like a great vehicle. I'll definitely have to check out the Outback when it arrives, but I'm still leaning to the GT side of the fence.

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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