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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Maybe during dealer prep they used something to damage the rubber coating? I have had the same rubberized plastic on my other cars and have had no problems with it (Nissan, VW) Just have your dealer replace it. I had a small nick in my door panel- the dealer replaced the whole door panel- no arguments.

    tom
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    just a 'plain' OB, still a great car! Nothin' plain about it!

    tom
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I echo the sentiment that its hardly a 'plain' vehcile. The new Legacys and OBs have character, in my eyes. Nice pick!

    ~alpha
  • moutbackmoutback Member Posts: 39
    Does anyone know whether Yakima Doublecross towers will fit on the Outback XT wagon? I have a set of these from my 2000 Outback I'd like to install on my XT. Yakima says that because the Doublecross was discontinued in 2002, it is not compatible with the XT. The Yakima Lowrider is the only available towers compatible with the XT factory rack.

    Also, has anyone installed on an XT longer Yakima crossbars than the 48" crossbars recommended by Yakima?

    Thanks in advance.

    Mark
  • moutbackmoutback Member Posts: 39
    I have an extra 3 year/36K miles free maintenance coupon from Subaru. I will mail it to the first person who emails me a name and address. Good luck.

    Mark
  • moutbackmoutback Member Posts: 39
    Sorry about the multiple posts, but I forgot to post how much I love my Outback XT Ltd. What a change from my 2000 Outback. I've put 1200 miles on it in 1 month, and EVERYTHING seems so much better than my old Outback. The power, handling, SPORTSHIFT, and stability silences all of my gripes about the little annoyances. Driving this thing is a workout--my heart rate elevates so much every time I'm behind the wheel.

    Mark
  • andmoonandmoon Member Posts: 320
    Are the child seat tethers for the rear outboard seats on the floor of the cargo area or on the roof in the 05's?
    Don
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I have doublecross towers from my previous 02, and they should fit the 05 siderails just fine (I did a rough visual fit last week). I don't know if they will fit within the "loops" on the ends of the siderails where I would want to put them (just to get them as far forward and aft as possible) but they will definitely fit on the bare middle sections of the siderails.

    I used to have 58" crossbars, which are good for carrying multiple boats and plywood. However, many people bonked their heads on the ends because they stuck out. So I ended up cutting the crossbars shorter, probably more like 50" or so.

    CRaig
  • andmoonandmoon Member Posts: 320
    Are the child seat tethers for the rear outboard seats on the floor of the cargo area or on the roof in the 05's?
    Don
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The tethers are in the roof right infront of the hatch opening and in the seat bottom (sort of near the seat belt latches).

    Craig
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Mark: If you already have your XT and the Doublecross, just give it a try. And yes, you can use longer cross bars. If you need to cut them down to size, the plastic ends pop off so you could hide any of the rough ends.

    Don: Craig beat me to it. There are two Latch anchors on the left and right rear seats. The anchors are hidden behind pop-off plastic covers. There are three tether anchors up on ceiling behind three hinged plastic covers.

    Ken
  • jchagtdijchagtdi Member Posts: 55
    Insurance Institute for Higway Safety tested the 2005 Legacy after the side airbags were folded correctly, and managed a "marginal" rating. All other categories received their "Good" rating.

    Link to article:

    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0415.htm
  • andmoonandmoon Member Posts: 320
    thanks for the responses on the anchors. The wrx has one in the ceiling (middle seat) and two on the floor of the cargo area which makes the area useless when using the anchors.
  • rusty2rusty2 Member Posts: 5
    Edmunds shows the price difference between an '05 OB XT Ltd. and OB Eddie Baur model comparably equipped to be approx. $150. Aside from some minor trim details, I assume the main difference between the two to be the choice of the turbo-charged 4-cylinder versus the 6-cylinder. So I'm wondering if anyone here has any thoughts about the pros and cons of these two models. Are they both equally reliable? Is performance similar?

    I apologize in advance if this topic has been covered previously or elsewhere. I've been through different OB threads and probably read about 100 pages but didn't see anything that dealt specifically with this issue.

    BTW, I currently drive a V6 Ford Explorer, which I bought because it had a third seat for carpooling. Well, my circumstances have changed so I decided to go back to driving a real car and have considered everything for around $30-35 K, including the Mercedes C230 Kompressor, Nissan Maxima, etc. So last Saturday, I spent the day visiting dealers and doing test drives. I really wasn't planning on a wagon because I thought I wanted something with a sportier image, but I once had had an Outback and really appreciated the handling and function of the car, so I test drove a '05 black XT Ltd. It totally blew me away. I couldn't get over the improved interior and styling, and the turbo's performance was thrilling, especially in comparison to the Explorer. More surprisingly, I thought it was much more fun to drive than the Mercedes, which had failed to thrill me with its ride, handling or pickup. The OB is now at the top of my list. Anyway, I appreciate any guidance you all can offer.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Rusty, if you were impressed with the Outback turbo's handling, you'll be blown away by the turbo Legacy GT's handing. As good as the Outback is—the Legacy is better. It's also a bit cheaper too.

    As to engines: 3.0 H-6 vs 2.5 turbo H-4, they both make the same horsepower, but the H-4 turbo has much more torque. The powerband on the H-6 is more linear, whereas the H-4 turbo comes on at around 3000 rpm or so—and it comes on strong from there to redline. Also, the turbo is available with a 5-speed manual too.

    Bob
  • rusty2rusty2 Member Posts: 5
    Bob, thanks for your reply. I'm afraid I'm a confirmed automatic transmissioner, so the manual 5-speed thing doesn't apply. Please bear with me for a second; when you say the power band on the H-6 is more linear, are you saying it's got more power from a standing start then the 4? Because, actually compared to the Explorer, the OB's 4 took off like a rocket.

    And why is the Legacy GT's handling better? I know it's lower and has lower profile tires. Is it tuned differently? I also wonder if the Outback, though more expensive initially, is a better buy just because of greater name recognition and, hence, resale.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    The H6, having more displacement, will initially have more torque available than the turbo 4. However, once you pass about 2500 RPMs, the turbo 4 takes off like a rocket and will outperform the H6. Also, the turbo 4's peak HP and torque occur at lower RPMs than the H6.

    I've driven both an H6 and H4 turbo Outback back-to-back and the difference is very noticeable.

    The Legacy GT, as you stated correctly, sits lower and rides on lower profile tires. Also, it uses a stiffer suspension set up as well as aluminum control arms to reduce unsprung weight. The other big difference is a quicker steering ratio. The GT has a 2.8 lock-to-lock ratio where as the OB uses 3.2. While the difference seems small on paper, it delivers a very different response on the road.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good to hear people are liking the projector beam headlights. Last thing we need is the HID theft nightmare that Maxima owners are having. Cheaper, effective, not theft-prone, and with cheap replacement bulbs is the way to go.

    VDC vs ESP came up a while ago. If you are referring to VW's system, Subaru's VDC has a couple of distinct advantages:

    * it can send 100% of power to either axle, VW is limited to 67% max

    * it is proactive, VW reacts quickly, but it still reacts

    VDC can shift power to the front axle if you lift off the throttle in a turn, before you even skid. The VW would have to skid a little bit first, then react, hopefully before you're stuck in the woods!

    Dyno good to go! 260hp/270 lb-ft, eh? At least it's not like Mazda, Ford, and Hyundai, overstating power left and right.

    If the Forester XT has about 250hp/265 lb-ft, the real difference is still pretty small. Plus the Forester is lighter and I think it's geared shorter. So off the line the Forester might be a bit quicker.

    Tim: turbo longevity? The early 90s Subies ran about 120-160k miles before the turbo needed a rebuild, I think the new ones should be more durable given all the advancements made in technology. Mercedes just announced they will replace their superchargers with turbos because even they believe in turbo longevity now.

    Brake fade when towing? Valid concern. And the Outback XT is far more likely to tow than a Legacy GT, yet the GT gets the bigger rotors.

    Subaru should at least offer a tow package on the XT that gives it the bigger brakes and maybe a tranny cooler if needed.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hard to say why these are so incredibly different than the results obtained in Australia.

    Still, average out a top score with a Marginal one (note it's *not* rated Poor), and you still have much better than average.

    The CR-V and Escape both have Marginal side impact ratings from IIHS and they constantly battle for best in class sales. Yet the Forester sells about half as much even though it got a much better Good score.

    So I don't think it'll have that much impact on sales. And if you insist on a safe Subaru, get the Forester:

    5 stars NHTSA front passenger
    5 stars NHTSA front driver
    5 stars NHTSA side driver
    5 stars NHTSA side rear passenger
    Best Pick IIHS front offset
    Good IIHS side impact

    Near perfect scores, makes most Volvos seem downright risky!

    -juice
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    So Subaru claims that they can predict slippage and they react to parameters (like throttle change and lateral g sensor ?) other than actual wheel speed and wheel speeed difference. I accept it as long as it works as advertised - it very likely does. This is traction control piece.
    There is also capability to brake individual wheels to correct the path of the vehicle and this part, I believe, is similar in both systems.
    VW has one very big advantage with ESP over VDC. It is an individual option available on all (or is it almost all) models. It is quite cheap too.

    Krzys
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    The proactive portion of Subaru's VDC system lies in the fact that it is coupled with the underlying AWD system (VTD).

    Most ESP programs simply use the vehicles brakes to correct under/oversteer situations. Not all ESP programs are created equal and in many overly conservative programs, the use of the brakes, not surprisingly slows down the vehicle (hence some car testers turning off ESP to achieve the best lap times).

    With VDC, the system will try and correct over/understeer by transfering power as well as applying brakes to individual wheels. The result is advertised to be less intrusive than a ABS-only ESP program.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Rusty, I think Ken summed it up quite well, both in terms of the engines and handling. Ken owns a new '05 GT Limited wagon with the 5EAT. He knows what he is talking about. Also, being lower to the ground means a lower center of gravity. So that, and the suspension, tires and steering changes all add up to one superb handling car. One other thing the GT has is bigger brakes too.

    When I say "linear" I meant even and predictable. There is no sudden surge of power at any given rpm, unlike that of the turbo.

    On the flip side, if you're more of an "outdoorsy" guy, the Outback may be the better choice. It comes standard with roof rack cross bars and a rubber trunk mat, which are optional on the Legacy. Also the HD raised suspension and larger tires do have an advantage on marginal roads or traction.

    Bob
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    I was almost T-boned (my brand new GT LTD, crumpled up flashed before my eyes) when a car came out a side street without stopping (they ended up stopping almost and entire carlength into the lane I was just in). Thank God for the quick steering! It was a narrow street so I had to turn quickly and turn back before hitting a car parked on the other side. No way I would have made that maneuver in a Camry or an Accord.
    The quick steering is very nice. And I didn't have to test out the side airbags. ;-)!

    I think active safety has to be at least as important as passive safety (CR rates the safety of cars on based on both active and passive features) which places these cars far above their Honda and Toyota competitors. Maybe the Altima comes close.

    BTW, saw 2 GT sedans today- one silver, one atlantic blue, both with spoilers. Very nice looking, I might say. ;-)

    Drive carefully

    tom
  • ssmintonssminton Member Posts: 155
    Many of the existing rail systems from Thule and Yakima will most likely end up being approved for the 2005 models. Just because it fits does not mean that it should be used. Give it another month and both organizations should have fit guides out for the 2005 models. Thule will most likely approve their new 450 food. Existing rail ride systems will also probably be approved. If you choose to use an existing platform, do so at your own risk. Neither Thule or Yakima will back these "untested" applications.
  • ssmintonssminton Member Posts: 155
    With all the posts over the past month, I was concerned on what my mileage on my VDC would be. So far, I am happy. With 1300mi, I seem to be getting 18 (purely around town, short distances), 21 (2/3 rds stop and go), and 26 (highway). I am amazed at the large range but am impressed by the highway numbers.
  • rsorganizersorganize Member Posts: 131
    Sure wish I were getting 26mpg on the highway!! Bset I've done is a around 22. Must be that I'm driving too fast??!! I'm at 3100+.

    Peace.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Krzys: yes, like I said, drop the throttle in a turn and VDC will shift power to the front wheels since it effectively *predicts* the weight will shift forward so the front wheels will do the engine braking safely.

    Smart, eh?

    ESP will react after the weight shifting and you fishtail, hopefully quickly enough to catch it (good luck!). I dropped the throttle too quickly on my Miata and did a 180 quicker that I could say "whoops".

    Is ESP quick enough? Maybe. Maybe not.

    Is VDC quick enough? Yes, because it shifts power to the front axle and behaves like a FWD car in that situation (understeer), so you don't wag your tail. There is stability control on top of VTD just in case, but you might not even need it.

    Another situation - say you're pulling up a pair of jet skis on a wet boat ramp. Hey, live a little. Let a guy dream.

    Any how. The VW starts with the default power split. Weight shifts to the rear so it's likely the front wheels will spin. The torsen may actually be useless here if there is no traction to the front tires, but ESP will use the brakes to shift up to 67% of the power to the rear axle. My guess is you'll hear a little wheel spin. The sytems has to make a mistake first, then it can correct it (albeit quickly).

    The VDC has sensors and knows you're going uphill, so it has already sent power to the rear axle, up to 100%, since it doesn't have the limitation of VW's system.

    You pull up the ramp without any drama, quietly, no wheelspin. It doesn't have to make a mistake before it can correct it.

    Smart.

    -juice
  • rsq798rsq798 Member Posts: 35
    Other than my next door neighbor who bought his at the same dealer as myself, I haven't seen any other 2005's of any model on the road since I bought mine. What about other people?

    On one hand, I do enjoy having a car that no one else, but on the other, I would like seeing sales pick up at some point. I seem to remember a couple years ago seeing more RSX's by this point after they were introduced.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I see them all over the place here. I was in Dewey Beach, DE, and saw 3 in a matter of seconds. More recently I went to Milford, CT, and you couldn't throw a rock and not hit one.

    As usual demand is regional, though.

    -juice
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    I've been seeing quite a few recently, Legacys equal to OBs, interestingly enough. The Pac NW is mostly OBs. Also interesting is most of the OBs i've seen have been black. I don't remember seeing any black ones prior to the '05s.

    I didn't know the 2.5i had a dual exaust too. Unless you see the hood scoop or the wheels, it's hard to tell them apart at a distance.

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's that "trickle down goodness" someone mentioned above. I loved that catch phrase. Subaru should put that in its advertising.

    But then it would be hard to justify why a VDC costs almost double what the 2.5i costs.

    -juice
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I haven't heard much on demand for the 2005's. Are they meeting Subarus sales expectations or are they falling short due to the much discussed price points?

    Just curious.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Legacy sales just had a record July. Could be they cleared out the 04s, but they had to have a lot of 05s in there too, to break a record.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    there are a lot more Legacys, especially turbos, now on dealer lot than in the past. SOA must have revised the Legacy-to-Outback production ratio this year. I think that's great. I was worried that Subaru may still only produce just a trickle of Legacys, and that's not the case this year.

    Bob
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    I have only seen about 4 new Outbacks, which is surprising low for the number of Subarus in NH.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The July sales split did have more Legacy than before, but the Outback is still outselling it by far.

    It used to be 3 to 1, though, now I bet it's more like 2 to 1.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I love statistics:

    In 07/03 appx 71% of all Legacies sold were OB's

    In 07/04 appx 68% of all Legacies sold were OB's.

    My calcs based on media.subaru.com numbers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    75% would be 3 to 1, so I was pretty darn close.

    67% would be 2 to 1, again almost exactly.

    What do I win? LOL

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    What do I win? LOL

    --------------------------

    Edmunds Retail TMV trade on your Forester and Miata on an 04 Odyssey at Invoice.

    Welcome to the dark side.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    We take delivery of our Legacy 2.5i 4EAT on Tuesday! The dealer lot has VERY few 2.5i models. There were two 2.5i Limiteds, the rest were GTs, with more GTs than GT Limiteds. (Im speaking only of sedans, btw).

    ~alpha
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I really love the vehicle. One thing that is going to take some getting used to is the quaking idle when cold. Our Camry's 2.4L VVTi engine is smooth as silk. And for what its worth, that is an exceptional machine for its intended purpose as well, despite that people routinely deride it for the lack of excitement<IMO. For $21 grand (LE plus Side Curtains), you cant find a better combination of comfort, quietness, efficiency, ride, room, safety and reliability. The Accord certainly has a handling edge, but the Camry is a lux ride.

    PS- Our Sube is Regal Blue. Damn, that color is GREAT on this car. For me, its gotta be the Regal, the Black, or on the GTs... that is a great red... whats it called?
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    So far, I've seen only 1 2.5i wagon and one OB XT wagon on the road. No other GTs to be seen here in the Bay Area.

    Hey, I contributed to that 68% in July! :-)

    Ken
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I'm still driving the only one I have seen locally!! The local dealer has all the same cars in stock that I looked at over 3 weeks ago. So it would seem like they are not moving in this area.

    I'm at 953 miles, 20.1 mpg avg. I did a little preemptive sportshifting to get ready for the party at 1000 miles. WOW! Nice to have a fast Outback.

    I do hear a variable hum noise from about 45mph on up (but no vibration). Hopefully it's a wheel/tire out of balance (or perhaps the tires are that noisy). Part of me suspects a bad wheel bearing but that would seem low probability. Given my previous experience with Subarus coming from the factory with unbalanced wheels/tires, that seems more likely.

    Believe it or not, I was going to take the car to Firestone to have all the wheels balanced, but they cannot do a dynamic balance on wheels with stick-on weights!! Huh?!? They could do a static balance, but that would likely be much worse than the factory balance job. So, I am in search of another tire shop. My local Subaru dealer has never done good balance jobs, so I am not going there.

    Craig
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • aussie outbackaussie outback Member Posts: 26
    Hi everybody,

    Hope your Legacies and Outbacks are going well.

    I have just hit 1200 miles and averaging about 18-19mpg overall. High of 25mpg on a 300km round trip at 100km/h. Low of about 16mpg round town driving.

    Car is proving good with no issues, except a few (expected) marks on the taupe upholstery.

    A couple of points/questions. An Australian 4wd magazine called Overlander tested the Outback 3.0R (without VDC) recently and highlighted that it performed well on sand (due to light construction), but that it was not so good on rough trails because the car would cock diagonally opposite wheels which created wheelspin. I thought modern cars could distribute torque to individual wheels if necessary, but I guess I am wrong?

    Does VDC solve this problem?

    Secondly - someone posted recently to point out a blind spot - so despite looking in your mirrors, a car behind you to your left or right stays out of sight. I know this is generally a problem in cars, but I too have noticed this as a specifically bad problem in the '05 Outback. You really need to do a full swivel around and triple check your rear three-quarter before you change lanes. Can make ducking in and out a bit slow or risky, depending on your driving approach.

    FYI - the result of the article mentioned above - "If you really want a sporty and fun drive, the Outback is the only choice. The Outback also offers refinement, excellent fit and finish, is handy in town and tours well." But they note poor touring range, generally an issue in Australia where any trip into the outback does require 1000km fuel capacity. The winner was the Toyota Highlander (again). "No, we don't like its uninspiring on-road dynamics, but it offers excellent drivetrain refinement, good practicality, impressive build quality and solid performance."

    So no difference there to other tests, then. I think the Highlander is ugly and boring to drive, so we didn't even bother testing it.

    Finally - anybody taken their '05 Outback off-road? We have been on some muddy trails, but nothing worse than deep bumps I guess. Fun on the slippery clay roads we get here though!

    - Aussie Outback
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    FWIW - I stopped by my dealer earlier this week to do a test drive for the $25 VISA award. They're one of the highest-volumne dealers in the Chicago metro area and they had almost no '05 Leg/OB inventory in stock. So either they sold what they had or ???. Anyway, I decided to hold off on the test drive until a Legacy GT Limited is available.
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    I am still on the lookout for the XT Ltd 5-speed for a test drive in the NH area. I want to drive it compared to the VDC but all dealerships have is the auto.
  • ryanl1ryanl1 Member Posts: 55
    I know my dealer sold 3 GT LTD sedans including mine and I've only seen one 2.5i wagon on the road.Supply is limited in the Pacific Northwest.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Well, let me relate my experience -- there's almost no benefit to the 5spd MT on the XT in my opinion. Used to be that the autos were kind of dogs and the MT had better performance and got more out of the engine. I would say that's not the case on the XT models. In my opinion, the only reasons to go with the MT on an XT are: 1) save $1200, 2) you really-really like shifting gears.

    I thought the MT shifter on the XT was very good, but not fantastic (say compared to the shifter on my WRX or a good Honda MT). In contrast the 5EAT was really impressive. As someone who has always preferred MT, it was kind of interesting to gravitate towards the 5EAT. I'm glad I went that route.

    Craig
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