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I am still trying to keep my cool and wait until the 05 Forester and Legacy GT models are on the lot for side by side comparison. I was even back to looking at a NA Forester with MT for better milage...but no XS Premium Package with MT) Knowing I cant get that combination in any of those vehicles now makes it a lot easier to be patient and see what the options will be on the 05 lineup. I can even throw the new 3.0 Outback into the mix.
My only regret is that I didnt get an 02 WRX wagon in the meantime.....
mark
-juice
If Subaru is really serious about U.S. upscale market they also need to up the warranty to a minimum of 36 mo. / unlimited miles. All the competitors they are aiming at with the premium level are more in the 48 mo. / 50,000 - 60,000 miles range.
That premium level also needs a driver memory seat. I can see the reviews now - "who made the decision to leave out a driver memory setting? - they left it out 4 yrs. ago when they introduced the LLBean and the VDC. Do they know they exist?"
Don't see the 7th speaker (subwoofer) listed either? Or is it understood these days, as most cars in this $ range have them?
I'm a little worried with all the work they are doing with the H6 engine. Mine has been flawless so far - 51K - no leaks, etc... [knock on plastic wood]
BTW, Subaru mechanic last night told me the H6 was built by GM for Subaru - and in the process GM liked what they saw and bought the interest in Subaru. Never knew that...
Ralph
I seriously doubt GM had any part in the making of the H-6. Subaru has years and years of experience with flat configurated engines, why would they need any help, and why GM. GM has no experience with flat engines. Porsche could, but not GM.
Eric
The following Austrlian Subaru page:
http://www.subaru.com.au/news/?newsid=11894
shows an average of 10.9 Liters/100 km as combined fuel mileage for the new Outback 3.0R. My calculations show that to be equal to 21.6 MPG, which doesn't seem different at all from the current 3.0 model.
Anybody have any insight as to mileage on the new models?
-juice
The new Outback H6 is within a few hundred dollars of the old H6 mark, so I assume it will be the same for US/Canada.
Steering feel is different but still that Subaru feel. Weighting about the same. Nicely weighted but better than the old model, hard to describe but just a nice feel. Turning circle is smaller than before too.
The Aussie spec doesn't get the McIntosh at any level in the Outback range. Only the GT gets the McIntosh. There is no subwoofer and the head unit is integrated as part of the dash, so an uograde is nigh impossible. Having said that, when you turn up the wick on the standard system it sounds quite good really. There is seperate tones for bass/mid/high and I don't doubt that there would be an improvement if you installed better speakers. It is better than the old model.
Climate control is no hassle and the fan now has up down buttons and 5 speeds. I think it's better than before. When the whole dash is lit up at night with the red highliting it looks great!
-juice
so does that mean we will get pics the evening of Jan. 6th?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Pics could be up as early as the 6th, in the eve.
-juice
Will someone please help talk me (so I can talk my wife) out of buying an AWD Volvo S60. We have an LLBean now and real like it. Wife wants to replace a 96 Accord NOW (112K) and Volvo has $3K off until year-end. She doesn't want to wait - "now is the time to buy a car" - which is true...
We can get a loaded 2004 AWD S60 for around 31-32K - about what the "premium" (or whatever they will call it) Outback H6 sedan will go for. [Volvo is already running scared of this Japan Car of the Year winner?]
Her boss has had 3 great Volvos w/ no problems (probably a world record...)
Thanks,
Ralph
I wanted to find out if anyone has any word on the 2005 Outback options for:
OnStar
XM/ Siruis satellite radios.
I know that they new Outbacks have them (I have the H4 LTD so no such luck for me)
Thanks!
-Ian
If she's decided, and it's her car, there is not much you can do. Ask her to name her top 3 picks, then go with her to sample those 3 cars. Maybe she'll change her mind.
I'll be seeing the 2005 Legacy, very likely in US-spec trim, on Jan. 6. The Outback, we think, we debut at Chicago in Feb. Brian (subearu) will do and get details for us.
-juice
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Some members want me to post pics live, if there is a WiFi link maybe I could. More likely I'll be posting them up at night.
Who needs sleep?
-juice
So diappointed, couple of weeks ago car show in WA, I got all excited about it. Was hoping that they show the new legacy. Got to their car display, I was like where is it.? nodda, quiet, only a few were looking at the WRX sti.
Subaru wants to put more emphasis on the Legacy (non-Outback), so no surprise that it'll make its american debut at Detroit.
G35x is intriguing, I like it. $33k I think. Let's see how Legacy GT pricing compares to that. Even though it's an Infiniti, pics I've seen of the interiors make me believe the Legacy will be nicer.
-juice
Too many choices....
Ralph
Eric
Hopefully that pricing will also be the case when the new models finally make it to this side of ther pond.
Cheers Pat.
At the moment I have two Outbacks, a MY01 2.5 lux and the new 3.0R. The interior, the fit & finish and the ride / handling are FAR superior on the new car. And it has a 180kw (approx 240hp) engine to boot.
Let's see where the Legacy GT prices end up for 2005.
I've seen cloth, H6 Outbacks for as little as $23.5k. If the next generation is even close to that price, it'll be on my short list, especially if it gets Sportshift and 5 ratios.
Still, I'd rather have a GT, for the sportier suspension. We'll see how the lineup looks soon.
-juice
Ralph
Lance
fetch me a drool bucket, and make it quick...
I think the current H6 feels really good, can't wait to test drive a new one...
First nice day here in ages - so I just took the 3.0R for a drive.
John
One other fault with the G35x, it doesn't come in a wagon version. So....the wait continues.
On an optomistic note I ran some numbers the other day when a friend told me he ordered an S4 Avant. The S4 Avant weighs 3936 lbs and has 340 hp for a 11.58 lbs/hp ratio. The New Zealand Legacy GT Wagon weighs 1450 kg (3198 lbs) and has 206 Kw (276 hp, I think as I don't know the exact conversion) which works out to 11.59 lbs/hp ratio. Not bad at all. Just makes the wait to find out what we get even harder though. ;-)
-Ian
Yeah, the only bummer about the G35 is the weight. I thought of trading in right now for the G35 then trade in for the Legacy when it comes out.
But will lose some money because of depreciation.
Darn it, where's me pot of gold @ the end of the rainbow?
It's a waiting game now.
but great forum.
Not sure about the G35's.
Also, VDC can get you moving with traction to just one wheel. And it's fully proactive. You drop throttle in a turn, and it shifts power to the front axle before you spin.
Most system react after you begin to spin, when tire traction is already compromised.
Sorry, guess that was 3 things! ;-)
-juice
Not sure if this will work but I just put a few photos of my Outback 3.0R here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288457513
Love, love that 3-spoke steering wheel. The two-tone interior looks classy and upscale, too.
Wheels should be easy to clean. Did it come with cross bars? It probably will for the US market, anyway. Dual exhausts look good, too.
You even stole my color choice. )
-juice
Someone likes boxers, eh?
-Brian
Have added a pic of the engine... well the covers over the engine at least. Also a couple more of the inside.
...and one of the dashboard showing me doing 240kph at 8000rpm in eighth gear with every warning light on on the dash. - or it could just be showing the sweep of the tacho and speedo when you turn the ignition on.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288457513
The car came with cross bars but I took them off yesterday - will put them back on soon.
Which ever end of the car you put a boxer in it still seems to go quite well!
How do you like the sportshift AT?
-Brian
Top that bud.
Seriously; John, great photos, and enjoy your new ride! BTW, I like your automotive stable: Outback H-6 & a 911 Carrera. Not too shabby...
Bob
I don't know about John Tracker, but I find the sportshift brilliant. It is just so much better than the old 4 speed slush box which I think was a bit of a dog. This new set up really works well. Select a gear and it changes very quickly and smoothly. No hesitation at all and with all that new power it really moves! Wheels mag here did a test on it and they managed 0-100kmh (0-62mph) in 7.6sec. That is with two on board and a tank full of gas! The 0-400mt (1/4 mile)comes up in 15.6sec with the same load. Not bad for a 3.0lt 6.
Moonroof looks just perfect. Does the front half tilt up, the rear slide in? And then there's no longer anything between the two?
Seriously? That might be my next car. Or maybe a Legacy GT. Depends on US pricing and content. I love it!
That's a lot quicker than the old one, which ran in the 8s range to 60mph (not quite 100 kph).
-juice
i'm a huge sube fan and have tried to convince my dad to by a subaru outback 2002 last year and failed to.. Why? he said the v6 felt out of steam..he thought it lacked room... very curious to know how significant the elder outback h6 is vs the new one.. and how much more room is there in the new one??? one other ?..how did U justify the price i believe in being able to buy a $30000 subaru but my folks cant justify the fact that buying a Subaru is worth "$30,000".. (I know ur australia but how do U justify this price?"
Thanks
With regards to the moon roof, yes, the front part lifts up at the back and rear part then slides into the roof like the old one. And yes, there is no part in between.
I guess the best way to comment on the new over old is that it is fun to drive whereas the old one could become a bit of a chore to try and get it to move quickly. The new one is just effortless.
only1agan,
The new H6 Outback has a heap more power and as I said above it is effortless. Thats the big difference.
As for room, the new H6 is only 20mm (3/4")longer in the wheel base than the old, so the room between the front to rear wheels inside the car is only marginally bigger. I do believe there is slightly more room between the front to rear seats.
How much room do you need? I am not tall, 5'6" 170cm and have 3 children, 16, 14 & 12. We find there is enough room for a 2-3 hour drive. I put a pod on the roof if I need extra room for luggage, but generally there is enough space for us.
I would rather have the car I want for 50 weeks of the year and put the pod on the roof or maybe borrow a trailer than drive a behemoth all year round just to satisfy our once yearly trip somewhere for the extra room. Actually what we have been doing the last few yearly trips is take 2 cars. Our holiday destination is only 2 hours from home so taking 2 cars is a great idea. Even if it was 3 or 4 hours we'd probably take 2 cars as we take our Dalmatian with us in my Outback and my wife takes her Hyundai with two of the children and I take the other child. Having 2 cars on holiday is very helpful sometimes.
So whats the big deal in paying US$30,000 for a Subaru? To judge a cars value you have to judge it with other cars of similar worth, not just because its a Subaru. Here in Oz people pay AU$55,000 for a BMW 318i. This is a 4 cylinder rear wheel drive with half the power of the H6. Now I ask you what would you rather, the BMW for AU$55K or the H6 for AU$50k?
The H6 is fully imported from Japan and the quality is superb and just as good as the BMW. A friend has a BMW 325 coupe and cost him AU$80k and I let him drive my H6. He said it was quicker, smoother, as good quality, and much better value. His next car maybe a Subaru H6 or GT, he was that impressed!
I generally run 2 cars and one is always for practicality. The latest Outback is a bit of a conundrum as it is possibly more fun, and a better performer, than several sports coupes I have owned.
Subah6 is dead right - compare the H6 to what is available at the price in the US and draw your own conclusions. I have lived in the UK and USA and realise that the difference between various brands of cars is not always the same from country to country but...
...here I was shopping around 50k - 60k AUD (including all taxes) and the short list came down to the Subaru, BMW 318i sedan and the Audi A4 Avante (wagon).
The build quality was very similar in all three cases but only one didn't come with a circa 130hp four cylinder engine (it also had a lot more space inside).
Probably the biggest wrap I can give the Outback is that if I go somewhere by myself (as distinct from with a pile of luggage or people where I don't have a choice) I am happy to take either current car I have - the 911 6 speed manual or the Outback auto. With 235Kw the 911 is quicker but the 180kw OBW is no slouch and is a heap of fun to boot.
John
This new one seems to have it all.
-juice
I'm not traditionally an early adopter - I like to give a new model a year to work through its teething pains - but that will give the Forester XT a run for my money when the time comes to trade in old paint.
Ed
Then again, the G35x isn't available with MT either.
only1agan - I think the new Legacy's will be very competitive at the $30K price point. Especially if you want a wagon. What other choices are there? Audi, VW, and maybe Mazda (I'm comparing AWD wagons). I think you father will be mighty impressed with the redesigned Legacy and Outback. Especially if you got him to check out a 2002. Interior room has increased a bit, but interior quality has taken a huge leap (from what I've been able to ascertain).
-Ian
p.s. johntracker - Thanks for the pics. Sounds like a great vehicle. I'll definitely have to check out the Outback when it arrives, but I'm still leaning to the GT side of the fence.