Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

njswamplands · August 2004

but with all of this rollover talk, why dont they have a rollover impact test? i mean if the bloody roof collapses like a beer can, its has to offset the side impact results.

so if subaru aced the rollover and the rav4 pancakes, big advantage subaru

ateixeira · August 2004

If it's certified as a car, by default it has to meet the government standard of being able to withstand 150% of the weight of the car on its roof.

Trucks don't have to.

Doesn't mean they don't, only that they are not required to.

Given the Legacy meets those standards, there is no reason to think the Outback would not. RAV4, who knows, maybe, maybe not.

-juice

moutback · August 2004

How about NHTSA, IIHS, and Consumer Reports creating a task force to conduct a rollover side-impact test initiated by an offset crash? Of course, the 5-mph bumper test should be incorporated too.

Seriously, the media's reporting of the Outback getting the "worst" rating for the % chance of a rollover is misleading. A 15.5% chance of rollover for the Outback is still better than the Pilot, Murano, and the XC90.

hypov · August 2004

juice-

I'll lean towards "Not" as in will not hold up.

Sometime last year or early this year, there was an accident I'd read in the papers about a vehicle rolled over with a baby being the lone survival, parents crushed. That SUV looked like a convertible upside down. I think, IIRC, it was a RAV4.

-Dave

ateixeira · August 2004

CR wants the government to do a dynamic rollover test, that would be more significant that static measures that can't account for things like stability control.

For instance, the VDC has a moonroof and might rate worse than a base Outback since that puts more weight up high, but the stability control makes it much less likely to roll over, virtually impossible I'd guess.

-juice

subefan · August 2004

I have been reading this forum since april 04.I learned alot of info here. Nice to join the subaru family.I bought my 1st,a 95 Leg L wgn used in 98 w/42,000 on it,now at 186,000 this car still runs excellent,body is good.Only maint done was rotors,pads,calipers,struts,battery,tires,oil,plugs and wires,all else original.That said,now comes the good part.I just traded a 02 neon(before its worth nothing)on a black 05 obxt wgn 5eat w/package 1(sec,auto-dim),air filt,mats,deflector,and locks on 7/22(2200miles ago)for 29,000 out the door(doc,tax,title)inc.Had 42 miles on the odometer,37 of which were mine when I test drove in june.Considering the 390.00 N.E. fee, seemed like a good deal. didn't use my vip program. This car or truck is incredible smooth,quiet,powerful, big diff from my 95 2.2. I'm avg. 24.6mpg. 90% highway. in maine everything is a ride, miles rack up quick. This is actually my wife's car(lol), but I drive every chance I get(I'll go to the store honey!). I'd recommend this car to anyone in this class. Keep up the good work. This site is invaluable for anyone who owns a subaru. Thanks for listening, Gary

ateixeira · August 2004

A belated congrats and a first welcome, Gary.

Now, can we talk you into using a few paragraphs?

)

Some white space makes it easier to read.

-juice

subefan · August 2004

Absolutely

thanks for the info -gary

ateixeira · August 2004

So it's an XT, but not a Limited model, right?

5EAT, black, nice.

-juice

subefan · August 2004

Right,XT,not limited

expy02 · August 2004

Brent,

What is the story about these coupons? My dealer said I can only get the free maintenance if I go for the 39 month balloon finance plan.

Thanks, Ray

expy02 · August 2004

Pete,

Good Luck on your Middle East trip. If you get a chance say hello to my son. You can find him commanding a CAAT platoon. Currently they have a "religious" building and adjoining cemetery surrounded with their HumVees in beautiful downtown Najaf. When he returns next spring he gets the Acura CL I am replacing with the GT Ltd I have on order.

Ray

movedor · August 2004

I test drove OB XT MT this weekend. This car is awesome. It has so much torque that you can practically get the car in movement just using the clutch, no need to press gas at all. The interior is so much better than previous incarnations that I couldn't believe I was actually inside of an OB.

But... well, nothing is perfect. In the past I refused to buy the OB because I found then 4 cyl engine not up to the task to haul this car. I just couldn't get any good acceleration. Then came the 6 cyl OB, but that was AT only, which I didn't want. Now finally the OB of my dreams is here, but at $29000! Yes, I can get it somewhere at invoice price if I'm lucky, but even at $27000 and no memory seats and no MP3 is a no go. I really need memory seats because I'm 6'5" and my wife is 5'9", and I can't just enter the car without having first to put the seat all the way back.

I guess I have to wait for 2006 model and see if it at least comes with memory seats as an option. MP3 actually is a nice to have.

mylegacy · August 2004

free maintenance & FREE oil changes for life of ownership.

Dealer close to me offering FREE oil changes for life of ownership (on new vehicle purchases), a lower Washington State tax rate, and complimentary delivery of your vehicle to any location in the State of Washington.

any of you getting free oil change for life?

thanks

blane · August 2004

mylegacy:

Please realize that anything advertised as "FREE" only means that you won't pay for it at that time. Those "FREE" oil changes and maintenance are paid for by YOU in your purchase price of the vehicle. If you pay less up front, they probably wouldn't claim to be giving you something for nothing later.

My advice... educate yourself about actual costs, then negotiate your best vehicle purchase price. It will probably be lower at dealers not claiming to offer "FREE" oil changes.

ntk1 · August 2004

Ray

I probably won't get much further than camp slayer or camp victory in Baghdad due to the nature of my work but if your son swings through BIAP the week of the 23rd let me know - we have our own private camp at the airport with more than the usual facilities available

Best wishes and stay safe

Pete

kens · August 2004

movedor: The 2.5 turbo is a torque monster with a very broad and flat range. However, getting a car rolling with just the clutch is do-able even with smaller engines. I used to do that with my 98 Forester all the time in bumper to bumper traffic.

mylegacy: The dealers in my area offer free oil changes for life. On top of that, they also include other maintenance items up to the 30K service for free. And, the dealer I bought my Legacy from sold it to me for about 2% over invoice.

Ken

goneskiian · August 2004

Ken - Yes, there is a bit of a difference. I think I know which dealership you're referring to. Would it be Eastside Subaru in Kirkland? I bought my GT Limited Wagon there and so far have had a very pleasant experience. There are, of course, quite a few rules you have to follow to get the free oil changes but I figure it's worth a try. Besides, now I've got the free maintenance coupons from Subaru to fall back on/use for the extra stuff. ;-)

As for the difference between the free maintenance and the free oil changes. The difference occurs at the higher mileage services. I can't remember if it's the 15K or 30K but up there you'll start to need other stuff done besides having the oil changed.

You could probably just get the Subaru Master Card from Chase to take care of the extra stuff.

Cheers!
-Ian

frankw · August 2004

It's not a magazine but here's a positive review of the 2005 Legacy from MSN's auto site. He doesn't give 8/10 very often.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Subaru&m- odel=Legacy

ateixeira · August 2004

movedor: check out an XT that isn't a limited, and just get an aftermarket stereo for a couple hundred bucks. You'd only be giving up the memory seat. Nobody's perfect!

Free oil changes are so that you frequent that dealer, then they're more likely to get your service dollars for profitable stuff like the 30k and 60k service. Plus it keeps you going back and looking at their new models.

-juice

samiam_68 · August 2004

Memory seat? Since when? Did I miss something? AFAIK, Legacy / OB does not offer a memory seat at any price.

njswamplands · August 2004

juice is not saying there is a memory seat. he was stating that was all that would be missing from an earlier posters needs.....

ateixeira · August 2004

Get a base Legacy GT with manual seats so you don't have to wait 12 minutes for it to adjust slowly.

If you're tall and your wife is short, manual seats give you the quickest way to adjust. High tech isn't always better. I hated waiting for our 626's slow power seats.

-juice

njswamplands · August 2004

problem is height, angle of seat, both mirror adjustments and steering wheel adjustment.

those systems that set all of these with a him/her type thing are so sweet.

ateixeira · August 2004

My wife is just 3" shorter than me, so I only have to move the seat back an inch or two. I usually move the inside rear view mirror, but not the sides.

-juice

njswamplands · August 2004

when i cant even get into the car without moving the seat back first.

wish the ignition was on left front dash and had memory on all those puppies so i would just have to put key in and away everything adjusts.

ateixeira · August 2004

You can have all that ... probably for about $40-50 grand. Pay up! ;-)

-juice

qbrozen · August 2004

IIRC, the TL offers that option and its tied to the key fob. So it does it all from the push of a button before you even get in the car.

njswamplands · August 2004

it is inconvient but not that inconvient.

ateixeira · August 2004

Well, the TL is about $33 grand. Add $1000 if it were a wagon, add another $2000 for AWD, and you're talking $35k.

OK, so it's not $40-50k, but $35-50k. ;-)

-juice

raybouli · August 2004

I have a 2000 outback wagon. The check engine light has been coming on intermittantly for 2 weeks. The dealer says it is a knock sensor which of course is not covered under the extended warranty. What is a knock sensor and where is it located? Thank you for any info anyone may have. Ray.

dave5 · August 2004

Are the factory crossbars supposed to come with the car or do you have to buy them as an accessory?
Me car does not have them.
How do they compare with the Yakima EZ rider?
Thanks for any help.

corvette · August 2004

I drove a 2.5 GT yesterday, and the salesman told me it had a hill holder clutch, but it seemed to roll back when I was trying to start on a hill. How is the hill holder supposed to work?

I was *really* impressed with the car. Personally, I liked it better than the TSX, G35, or Passat 1.8T. All that's missing are auto up/down windows, stability control, and an integrated key and remote. I briefly drove a 2.5i automatic. I think the 2.5i manual would be sufficient for me, I would probably get myself in trouble with the turbo! Both the cars I drove were incredibly smooth. Ultra-quiet motor. I still can't believe it's a four-cylinder, they should offer it in a Lexus. The main competition right now is the BMW 325i. Given the price and size difference, this may seem odd, but it's what I've narrowed the field to. Right now, I'm leaning toward the Subie 2.5i Limited 5-speed. This car absolutely creams the Altima in driving dynamics and refinement.

gxb159 · August 2004

Scored my new O5 OB on Wednesday. Details:
2.5i
5 speed
Wheel Locks
Cargo Net
All Weather Mats
3 Year Maint Coupon

I paid $22,729, which is invoice plus destimation. Had no trouble geting invoice, negotiating the trade took some time (had to leave twice).

The only problem is that it is my wife's car, I haven't got to drive it more than 2 miles yet:) With the weekend coming, we may have to take a road trip somewhere. THe initial thought is that it is a great car. Replacing a 97 OB, there is a world of difference. Very quiet and smooth car. More details to come as we pack on the miles.

For those in the Philly/DE area, check out Concordville Subaru/Nissan. I recommend them.

rsholland · August 2004

I drove a 2.5 GT yesterday, and the salesman told me it had a hill holder clutch, but it seemed to roll back when I was trying to start on a hill. How is the hill holder supposed to work?

The salesman doesn't know what he's talking about. The only US-spec Subaru equipped with the Hill-Holder clutch is the Forester.

Bob

kens · August 2004

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/subaru/legacy/100397025/roadtesta- rticle.html?articleId=102623&tid=edmunds.n.mainindex.reviews.- .5.*

Ken

ateixeira · August 2004

They really said the knock sensor was not covered? Is it a B2B extended warranty, or just the powertrain?

Call 800-SUBARU3, I'd hope this is the type of thing that is covered. Is yours a Subaru Gold? The 3rd party ones have all kinds of exclusions.

My brochures list the Outback as having cross bars, but not the GT. Low profile roof rails only.

corvette: we're not stoppin' ya! Go for it. Even if you want something else later, resale is very good. I just checked and my wife's 2002 Legacy cost us less than $18k, they're not selling for $16k more than 2 years later, with more miles than we have on ours.

Allen: congrats! Hopefully you get to drive it once in a while!

-juice

ateixeira · August 2004

I liked this comment:

Legacy finally offers a no-compromises alternative to those European brands

They complained a bit about the automatic, but as we've seen here YMMV, and I bet it just hadn't properly adapted to their aggressive driving style.

Brakes and handling both rated "excellent", and noise rated "Low". Not a bad combination.

They list 0-60 in 7s for an auto wagon, wish they'd also road tested a sedan with a manual, to get an idea for the spread.

-juice

ateixeira · August 2004

grove4 and Pedalles had a nice pair of quotes.

They even liked the stereo, scored it 8 out of 10.

-juice

ateixeira · August 2004

Yeah but I bet Alex (i-club) can get free clutches from one of his sponsors! LOL

-juice

mylegacy · August 2004

Ian,

It's Peninsula Subaru
but I was also considering the one in Everet.

c_hunter · August 2004

I bet some of the reviewers don't know there's a sport mode. Car and Driver didn't -- they complained about slow downshifts, but that is easily remedied by sliding the lever left to engage sport mode (but don't use manumatic, since it takes you out of sport mode).

Craig

ateixeira · August 2004

All I can say is sampling these on the track, in cars that had been worn in by hard driving, the tranny never once hesitated or let me down.

I'm a huge fan of manuals but this is among the better automatics I've sampled, much better than Volvo's or VW's for instance. Definitely not a match for Porsche, but with a down-to-earth price I can accept that.

-juice

frankw · August 2004

The Valley Motors data provide the first comparison of 0-60 acceleration times of the Legacy GT and the Outback XT that I have seen from a single source. The small difference (5.84 vs. 5.92) doesn't surprise me and is probably within measurement error.

Frank

ateixeira · August 2004

That confirms Subaru's estimate of 5.9 seconds for the Outback XT.

It's amazing, I remember when 8 seconds was quick and anything less was truly fast.

-juice

tsy · August 2004

I've been driving a '04 LL Bean loaner while my car has been in for service (some buzzing rattles, undercoating, and I'm having the Short shifter installed) which has really put my '05 GT LTD in perspective.

The Bean is a very nice car, the loaner has less miles than my new GT, but it's not nearly the same. The inside is just shy of nice, it's a bit noisier than my GT (which surprised me), doesn't handle nearly as well, and feels slow, very SUV like, in comparison, of course. ;-)

I didn't even try driving the '05 H6 but I can't imagine it moving the OB nearly as fast as the XT. (wow, 5.9 to 60, can that be right?) There's only so much you can do with the torque available. The power from the H6 is certainly adequate, a little smoother (not much), and a little quieter (again, not much).

H6 engine good. 2.5 Turbo, better! ;-)

Word of caution, I have noticed that I am unintentionally driving faster- the car just isn't even working at 80mph- which comes up very quickly if you're not paying attention! (almost blew by a state trooper- very bad!) Have briefly been up to triple digit speeds- very stable, just like any good German Autobahn cruiser.

IMHO, the only advantage of the H6 is you'll drive slower. ;-)

tom

ateixeira · August 2004

Cool, share more impressions as you think of them.

-juice

rsorganize · August 2004

"IMHO, the only advantage of the H6 is you'll drive slower. ;-)"

I don't doubt the different feeling, etc. of the turbo. I test-drove OB XTs several times and was powerfully drawn to the turbo experience. Indeed, I would have bought it had the VDC been an option.

Still, I wouldn't underestimate the H6. Sounds like we are having similar exdperiences: the H6 in my 3.0R (VDC) is remarkably quick and fast...whether in regular auto or in sportshift, I am at 80mph in a flash. It's hard to drive in the lower 70s because the engine/ride is so quiet and under control. I have drifted - yes, 'drifted' - to 90+ and been over 100 a few times (on purpose) just to appreciate the stability and control.

So...while the turbo is surely wonderful, the H6 is pretty darn good (and fast), too.

Peace.

ateixeira · August 2004

Well, the big improvement from 2004->2005 is actually the transmission.

The H6 was a great engine all along, it just likes high revs and the 4 speed takes a while to get it to the sweet spot.

The new 5 speed gets it there much sooner, and keeps it where the torque is, at least in Sport mode.

To me, at least, the 2005 H6 felt a lot quicker than the 2002 LL Bean I test drove with my wife.

-juice

tsy · August 2004

I think all the '05s are wonderful cars, I'm just having a little fun, no offense I hope. ;-)

I agree that the tranny probably has a lot to do with the sluggishness of my loaner car. I think which car you choose depends upon your taste. Whether 2.5i, 2.5 GT/XT, or H6, you can't lose!

Now, what about an H6 Turbo?

A legacy STi that could hang with a M5, RS 6, or CTL-V? Even better, in wagon form?

Actually, it would be too much hp for me. I feel like I have too much for my own good already! ;-)

tom

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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