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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Arghh, I think you are incorrect again. Subaru Canada's website shows the base XTs and I test-drove one. Not sure where you got that they are not available in Canada...
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    When ranked against other cars, the Outback is the most likely to tip over. But when ranked against SUVs, it is one of the least likely to tip over. Everything is relative.

    There is no rocket science here. Look at any car car or SUV and based on the ratio of width to heigth, you can get a pretty good idea of whether or not it is tippy. For a true measure you would need to use the height of the center of gravity against the width of the car.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    If they compared the older Outback to cars that would explain it, but I could swear they said SUVs which suggests the 2005. They also mentioned other SUVs specifically, I forget which ones exactly. It has no bearing on my purchase but I would be curious to read the source and criteria. General news editors can screw these things up. Thanks.

    Sduford... Not rocket science but science nonetheless. You can't make a statement like "most apt to tip" by visual observation. Protocol and parameters are needed. Visual observation doesn't tell you the height of the engine, weight, centers of mass and a ton of other things.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually it's too bad they didn't test a 2004 VDC, I bet you couldn't tip that over if you tried.

    Anyone have the link? I didn't even pay it much attention since like I said the info was outdated before it was even published. How dumb to test a discontinued 2004 model.

    I'm fairly certain is was not categorized with trucks. Ironically, the 2005 now will be, because it's registered as a truck. So don't be surprised to see the same articles next year toting the Outback as "least likely to roll over".

    Hilarious.

    -juice
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    What's so hilarious? This is something that can be clearly measured unlike styling.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm just saying, the ranking depends only on your perspective.

    If you view it as an alternative to a car, well, it's raised up and of course it's more likely to tip.

    But I suspect most Outback owners were leaning towards an SUV, and ended buying something less likely to roll.

    Why is that hilarious? Because the headlines next year will tote the Outback as the safest truck!

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    2004 Headlines:

    Outback most likely to roll

    2005 Headlines:

    Outback least likely to roll

    Dunno, I find that funny. But I have a strange sense of humor.

    -juice
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I appreciate your sense of humor. I usually save mine for Bangle topics and the German Critical Mistakes thread.

    ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry if I Bangled (*) the joke

    -juice

    * Bangle: verb. To spoil; uglify; ruin a legacy of decades of beautiful cars with hideous styling cues that require 60 minutes of explanantion just so people "get it".
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Rollover testing....

    It is VERY subjective. The test driver decides how late to crank the wheel, before the cones. This is how they got the Trooper and Montero to "roll" v. other SUVs...

    -mike
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Actually, in this test, subjectivity didn't hurt the Outback at all. The new NHTSA score is based partly on whether it tips or doesn't, which it didn't. It's a simple pass/no-pass grade there. Then the rest of the score is based on a simple mathematical computation of the height of the center of gravity vs. the width of the track of the vehicle.

    The old rating used to be based purely on the calculation, NHTSA just added the tip/no-tip criteria.

    If the 2005 had the same scores, it'd go to fourth place in the so-called "SUV" category. Though perhaps the mathematical calculation for the 2005's may push it down somewhat.

    But the tip/no-tip can be affected by how the vehicle is being driven.

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Rollover/pages/faqs.htm#dy- - namic

    As it is, I think even the revised NHTSA rollover rating is full of holes.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There you go, Outback actually gets 4 out of 5 stars, and it grouped with the highest performing group, Passenger Cars.

    And notice is says "NO TIP"!

    Sounds like a high rating, the media takes quite a bit of liberty, eh?

    The actual ranking is better than any pickup. Also, it would rank 4th among SUVs, ahead of any Honda and Volvo in that class.

    It's less likely to rollover than the Sienna minivan!

    Next year we'll hear the opposite, sensationalized headlines like "Subaru safer than Volvo".

    The real surprise from those ratings? The Escape actually tipped up!

    -juice
  • luck11luck11 Member Posts: 425
    Uh-hummm....don't think so, unless the 3 local dealers are wrong. All three say Outback XT available only in Limited in Canada...ie. with Leather, moonroof etc.... The base XT with cloth is not available. If you test drove one, perhaps it was a loaner from the US? I certainly have not seen a base XT on any dealer lots, nor have I seen pricing for it. The Cdn XT MSRP is $44,325 for 5EAT, which is in the ballpark of the 3.0 VDC...hardly base XT pricing. Finally, I am staring at the specs for the XT in the 2005 Outback brochure for Canada....it states Perforated Leather and Moonroof as stnd options...nothing about cloth. Perhaps you could provide the link that states there is a base XT with cloth interior in Canada, and hopefully provides Cdn pricing? Are you confusing the GT with the XT? Because the GT is available in non-Ltd. ie. cloth.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    NO TIP... guess this explains why the valets ignore me when I drive in with the Outback.

    (I got a million of 'em!)

    ;-)
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    "Not rocket science but science nonetheless."

    That's why I said oit would give you a good idea, but you would need to know the CofG to make a really good asessment.

    When I saw the list of SUV "tippyness" ratings, I realized I would have got about 8 of 10 right just by looking at them. Check the list, then look at the cars, you'll see what I mean.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    These cars are so close it's hard to declare an absolute winner. Neither is a loser, as they are both winners IMO. It all depends on what your priorities are.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    C'mon guys, tip 'em a little, I used to valet park myself and I take offense to the idea that Subarus don't tip. ;-)

    In all seriousness I did valet park back in college, in fact a guy in an old Subaru once tipped me a $20! Tied for my best tip ever.

    Glad to hear the GT comes out on top in the opinion of MT (and JCOTY).

    -juice
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Whew! Finally caught up in here after taking the new GT on it's first road trip. We put about 3400 miles on it in 2 weeks. Drove from Seattle over in to Montana. We took it up over the Beartooth highway into the NE entrance to Yellowstone (10,950 foot high pass). Spent a couple days in Yellowstone a couple more in Jackson Hole WY and then through central WY (Dubois, Jeffrey City, Rawlins, Saratoga) to N. Central Colorado (Walden, Granby, Rand, Winter Park) to Denver. Then took the quick(er) way back from Denver through Odgen UT, Boise ID and back up through the tri-cities area of WA, Yakima, Ellensburg and home to Bellevue. Whew!

    How did the car perform? Pretty much flawlessly. I say pretty much because we had a scare in Rawlins WY one night. We had just finished a day of driving and filled the tank. After driving for a bit we stopped for dinner. After dinner we had the CEL come on and the the "Cruise" light start flashing. Unfortunately we didn't have the Owners manual with us as I had been reading it in the house before we left (oops), so we frantically tried to call my wifes sister to have her come to the house to read it for us. Of course we're both operating on a day of driving so we're a bit tired and not thinking real clearly. Then I remembered reading a discussion here on this board about how not tightening the gas cap can trigger a CEL and since I hadn't tightened it when we filled up I thought I'd try it. So I made sure it was good and tight and then I ran the car for a couple minutes (CEL still showing) before deciding to give it up and get some sleep. We figured if we had to we'd call the nearest dealership in the morning (about 100 miles away in Laramie). Fortunately that did the trick as neither light was on the next morning when we went to leave and hasn't come on again since. ;-)

    Another thing I noticed on the trip was that my door panels didn't match. I remember loading up one morning in West Yellowstone MT and looking at the drivers door. "Hmmmm..." I said, "That's strange. The driver's door has a cloth insert. I wonder what the others have?" Low and behold the drivers side rear door has the same cloth insert while the doors on the other side have leather inserts. Strange.

    Anyway, the dealership already has my matching door inserts on order.

    Last but not least is the most disapointing part of the trip. Somewhere along the line we took a rock to the very edge of the windshield and between Denver and Ogden on our first leg home it decided to crack. Fortunately it's in the very lower right hand corner of the windshield so you can't really see it while driving, but it's still a bummer to have to think about replacing a windshield that's only a couple months old. For the record, none of my or my wifes previous cars have ever had a windshield crack.

    Truly an awesome Grand Touring car. Very comfortable for long hauls on the freeway yet an absolute blast over the twisty mountain passes in Wyoming and Colorado. Of course the power felt quite good even at some pretty extreme elevations.

    Sorry for the long post!

    Cheers!
    -Ian

    p.s. Oh yeah, mileage. Best tank was on the way from Jackson Hole to Rawlins WY on the way out with a pretty stiff tailwind (28.47 mpg) and only cruising at 65 to 70 mph. Worst was on the way back with that same stiff wind coming at us head on (23.81 mpg) and cruising at about 80 (speed limit is 75) and still getting passed quite often. The worst tank period was when we were driving around seeing the sites in Denver (21.56 mpg).
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Welcome to all the new Subaru owners. I hope you enjoy your new rides as much as I do. Just be sure to thoroughly check out those new vehicles (see door panel reference in above post). ;-)

    Ken - If you haven't already had your windows tinted I'd recommend the darker 20% option. That's what I've got in my wagon and it's definitely NOT too dark. There is so much glass in this wagon that there's still plenty of light getting into the cabin. Besides, it looks soo sharp to have the silver wagon with the black wrap around windows.

    Road trip follow up...
    I don't know if I'm just getting used to driving the car or if it's the cooler weather we're having here in Seattle or if the engine is really loosening up now but it feels a bit more powerful than before I left on vacation. I'm at about 6800 miles now and opened it up a bit yesterday. Damn! This thing just goes!

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Flashing cruise, goes with the CEL on the new subies for some reason. '04/05 STis do it also.

    -mike
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    I read in my OM that it is also caused by moving the cruise control lever while turning the ingnition "ON". This also deactivates the cruise control. I'm referencing page 3-35 of the 2005 Legacy/Outback manual. The CEL page is 3-25 and 3-26.

    I don't know if mine was deacivated as we didn't try to use it when it was flashing.

    -Ian
  • natethomasnatethomas Member Posts: 11
    Today I went and put money down on a red Outback XT with a manual. I am coming from a 99 Outback and there is a world of difference between the two. The car arrives next week and I can't wait. I guess I'll soon be posting raving reviews of my new car!!!
    I used my IMBA membership to get the car at invoice, which the dealer said was $26,743 - the edmunds invoice is about four hundred less. Does anyone know if the invoice price differs by region - I'm in MA?
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    New England carries an additional $390 distribution surcharge.

    Good luck with the new car!
  • mjc440mjc440 Member Posts: 76
    In late July, I purchased a new 2005 Legacy 2.5i Limited. The '05 is a huge improvement over the 2004 Legacy I traded in.

    However, one problem I noticed right away is when I stop at a traffic light for more than a minute (with the windows rolled up), I smell "toxic-smelling" fumes (not exhaust) coming into the car. It seems to be coming into the vents from the outside vent near the driver's side windshield wipers. When driving down the road, I don't smell anything because the fumes don't make it into the passenger compartment. When I look under the hood, I noticed the smell is strongest near the passenger firewall (I see a catalytic converter there). I checked for any paint, oil, etc on the engine or exhaust pipes and don't see anything.

    I was hoping that this was smell would go away (burn off?) after I drove it for a while, but I now have 3,000 miles on it and the smell is still there.

    I'm going to have to call the dealer. Any suggestions on what it could be?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wait til 10k then the plastics will be done out-gassing.

    -mike
  • aussie outbackaussie outback Member Posts: 26
    Sorry to bother you all with such trivialities...but does anyone know how to get a little flag next to their name? (as you all seem to have already - boy I feel left out!)

    On that note - I take it no-one (apart from me) will be checking out how the USA fare against New Zealand in the cricket tournament starting in the UK tonight (starts about 5am or so if you were in New York)?

    It is not often my countrymen go into a competition against the USA as unbackable favourites...so I am looking forward to it.

    http://www.cricinfo.com if you want to follow the game, and I can even explain the rules if requested (but probably not on the Subaru forum)!

    - Aussie (Kiwi) Outback
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Open "preferences"(under Town Hall Tools) and choose the flag of your choice on that page. Make sure you click on "set preference" after that.

    And yes, the Cafe would be the best place to talk about the cricket match. :-)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Here in the Boston area (northeast US) is a very strong Indian population. Every year this group:

    http://www.idrf.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Hnnews&file=article&sid=134&b_name=hn_Latest+Events&

    puts on a cricket tournament - albeit with scaled down matches - to raise money for Indian causes.

    Quite interesting to watch.

    Best of luck to your team.
  • loveautosmanloveautosman Member Posts: 4
    I took my $25 test drive invitation to the dealer this evening to check out the new 2005. Interestingly enough, the dealer hadn't seen one of these forms yet. Guess folks don't want to put up with the potential dealer hassle to drive the 2005 for $25.
    My background: I have always owned a Subaru. A 1983 Subaru Wagon was my first car my dad bought for me when I was in High School. I had models, or had close family members with models, in each of these years, 2-84's,86,87,90,91,95,96,03. Most of them are now gone from my family except the 95 and the 03. Everyone moved on to either a SUV or minivan as they needed something bigger for families. I have always loved them and don't think you can beat their reliability. "Inexpensive and built to stay that way".
    Anyway, back to the 2005. This was the first time I have ever driven a new car, much less a Subaru, and walked away without the feeling of "I have to have it". At $31k, it was pricey. There were a lot of luxury touches over my 2003, but, I didn't see $8k worth. After driving the 2005, I understand the "why would Subaru try to go luxury" debate that is raging in the automotive press.
    There were several issues that I noticed need to be addressed. I was really amazed at the road noise and wind noise. There seemed to be no improvement in this area over the previous generation. Approaching 65+mph I noticed a high pitch squeal from the roof area. I could only figure it was from the sunroof or the large luggage rack cross bars. The squeal was so loud I hit the brakes in shock thinking it was either some type of alarm or something had broke.
    I also noticed that the side mirrors whistled in the wind. You could only hear this if you rolled the windows down and was going faster than 45mph. The whistling stopped if you pulled the mirror slightly towards you as you drove. This could be easily solved with some cushioned tape (as Nissan did with the same problem on the Quest).
    There was also a driveline shudder when going up a long steady steeping incline at 60mph while the transmission was still in 5th. That was annoying. I know that this is the GT, and it is supposed to be sporty, but, the ride is horrible. I felt like I was riding in a Corvette or Camaro. It was a very stiff ride with lots of feedback.
    Now the plus side of my test drive. Boy is this a fast car! With the automatic, it was a joy just to watch the automatic keep the engine in its peak power band! Step on the gas from a stop light and you quickly forget the petty, meddling issues.
    The leather seats look really nice, are firm and supportive, but, seem like saddle leather in that they are very stiff and hard, not soft and supple. The dash is very nice and laid out very good. Everything was easy to use, see, and understand. The carpet and floor mats seems of a greater quality and seemed thick and luxurious. The tailgate and hood was also much lighter and easier to use, thanks to their aluminum construction.
    I'm glad to see that Subaru has managed to get rid of the funny tractor sounding engine, common to the boxer, and the air sucking noise the 2000-2004 made.
    The overhead sunroof is a huge improvement of the previous model, much easier to use and a large overall opening. The two piece sunroof unit of my 2003 is a hassle to use.
    The wheels and tires are awesome. I was shocked to see a 45 series tire on a Subaru! However, I'm sure that's part of the stiff ride issue. The chrome skid pates and chrome trim in the cargo area was a nice touch as well as the door sill plates.
    Subaru has made a big improvement, but, they have quite a way to go before I would feel comfortable dropping $31k for one. I didn't drive the Outback, which is similarly priced. Maybe that model would be more luxurious warranting $30k+.

    Mark
    2003 Legacy Wagon L
    2004 Nissan Quest SE
  • dmagoondmagoon Member Posts: 8
    Dave, Pete,

    The service manager at my local Subaru dealer was able to duplicate the problem with one of his cars. He has calls into his SOA contacts. Keep your fingers crossed. I, too, agree with others who really like the GT. This is a small but annoying blemish on an otherwise fine automobile.

    DM
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Mark,
    Glad you enjoyed your test drive.

    FYI, you wouldn't have to pay $31K. They're already starting to go for invoice in most places which is more like $29K. Of course that's still a lot of money especially if you aren't totally WOWED by the car.

    OR you could take that $25 and join the IMBA or other association that has a VIP program set up with Subaru and guarantee yourself invoice pricing.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • djo1djo1 Member Posts: 6
    DM,

    Thanks, keep me posted. Here or by email would be great, djowens@u.washington.edu. Still having fun with the car and can't wait for the break-in period to done.

    Dave
  • saywhatsaywhat Member Posts: 63
    Beltronics with the voice and PoP, Escort, Valantine? Which one do you pick?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I have a Valentine One, because it tells you (with arrows) what direction the radar is coming from; front, rear or side. None of the others have that capability.

    Bob
  • new2new2 Member Posts: 3
    O.k., I'm new to this site, but thought it would be helpful to ask you all if anyone has bought the 2005 Outback Wagon i Limited. Just test drove one and loved it. I've been a SUV owner for years (jeep grand cherokee, chevy blazer s-10)and am seriously considering the outback wagon. Anyone buy one yet? Any problems with it? The dealer quoted me $26,955 which of course I'm going to try to talk down. Does this seem on par? Any info. is helpful.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I have an XT-Ltd and it's been awesome so far (and it's my 4th Subaru). We have a couple 2.5i owners here, Karen is one -- maybe she can chime in with comments. Her web page is here, and it has all sorts of useful info about the Outback:

    http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

    You should be shooting for invoice price or very close to it. That's the going rate these days. I paid invoice on my XT in mid-July.

    I don't think there have been any major problems yet, in fact I haven't heard of any real minor ones either, outside the normal nitpicks every owner has. So I highly recommend the car.

    I see from your profile you're up in CT -- my folks live up there and have a 2000 Outback (my old car actually). It's been great for the winter weather up there.

    Craig
  • new2new2 Member Posts: 3
    Craig,
    Thanks for the info. I'll check out the link you provided for Karen. Glad to hear the Subaru is good in the winter, I often head to VT for skiing. Thanks again!
  • nvsubinvsubi Member Posts: 1
    Hi!

    I have been out of town so missed your post until now. I doubt you have your coupon but if so I bought a Legacy a couple of months ago and would love to have a coupon - my e-mail address is Ted03Ba@sbcglobal.net

    Thanks!!
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Ian,

    Nice write up on the trip. I can't believe SIA messed up and put the wrong door trim on your GT. Glad to hear the dealer is going to take care of it.

    I actually did get my GT wagon tinted this past weekend. I have 20% Madico Onyx tint on all the windows behind the driver (per CA law) and it looks great. My daughter appreciates the much lowered glare and heat when she's riding in her carseat in the back. I'll post pictures soon.

    Ken
  • jim1969jim1969 Member Posts: 62
    I have the Escort 8500 X50 and it works well. Who needs arrows? If you get a signal just slow down a bit. I was already warned of Ka and detected laser upstate NY. No ticket with Ka because of advance warning and was doing speed limit when got painted with laser. Try speedzones.com, radartest.com, radarbusters.com for more info.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I had my back five windows tinted with a 20% film this past weekend:

    image

    A couple more over in the Photos topic: kens "Subaru Crew: Photo Gallery" Sep 12, 2004 3:53pm

    Ken
  • morphiemorphie Member Posts: 95
    By virtually any objective measure, the Valentine One is the finest radar detector available. It is also expensive. It is produced by a company whose founder was one of the original Cinncinati Microwave group ("Escort"). However, it would also be fair to state that less expensive detectors do an adequate job. On the other hand, if you want the best, and are willing to pay for it, Valentine is your choice.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Who needs arrows?

    Every bit of extra info is helpful.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    3982 of 3992 What is the best radar detector? by saywhat Sep 11, 2004 (2:06 pm)

    Beltronics with the voice and PoP, Escort, Valantine? Which one do you pick?


    CB Radio is best for interstates. You generally know 10+ miles in advance of a cop. :)

    -mike
  • ntk1ntk1 Member Posts: 57
    DM

    Thanks for the info (where in the country are you?)

    Pete
  • solidsendersolidsender Member Posts: 4
    Nice pics, Ken, looks great ...

    Recent posts on tinting has me wondering what is the best way to go.

    One thing I liked about my '03 Baja was the tinted rear windows but they were factory ...
    are today's aftermarket tinting materials/procedures quality and permanent?

    Every time I see one of those cars at a stop light with the crappy, peeling or bubbling tint jobs, I cringe.

    So what are considered today's highest quality tint choices, who performs them, are they guaranteed and how much should I expect to pay to do the rear five on my new OBXTL 5M?

    Thanks in advance for any info.
  • saywhatsaywhat Member Posts: 63
    I have a 05 GT Sedan, after driving the car for 15 min. or so, warm air "keeps" coming in the vents, even with the auto on 65, and the vent on fresh (outside) air. The only way to get rid of the warm air is to put the AC on. A lot of times I just want the normal cool outside air. A lot of owners of the GT on other forums are having the same problem. Any suggestions?
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I get that too with the WRX. The vent for the outside air is on the passenger side, and guess what is there too?... turbo.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Try cracking a window, the air should flow quicker and that should help it cool down.

    It'll also cool down your turbo and add at least 5 horsepower to your car.

    Just kidding about that last part.

    -juice
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