Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

sduford · January 2005

That is weird, on my OBXT it goes to full as soon as I start the car. I can't imagine that you would have a different system in your car!?!

Could it be frozen?

Sly

tsy · January 2005

I don't have a problem with the fuel gauge either. Are you leaving your car running while refueling?

tom

timo1745 · January 2005

Bingo! I think you've got it, Tom

If you don't turn off your engine during refueling, the fuel guage (as with nearly every later-model vehicle I've driven in the last several years) won't immediately reflect the tank being full. I believe the owner's manual speaks to this, as well.

Tim G.

sduford · January 2005

People still refuel without turning off their engine? That is illegal in most developed countries! Do you guys live in a third world country?

tsy · January 2005

When I was in Boston a lot of people left their cars running while refueling. It was pretty common in the winter.

Of course, we're not as civilized as our neighbors to the north! ;-P!

tom

locke2c · January 2005

very illegal everywhere AFAIK, but people still do it.

~c

natethomas · January 2005

I have a 05 Outback XT and have a question about turbo engines. I don't know that much about turbos, but I was wondering if it would be possible for subaru (or any company that makes turbo cars) to have a on/off switch for the turbo. This may be a stupid question due to my little knowledge of engines. Being able to control the turbo would improve the mpg if so desired - right now I am averaging 20 mpg on the trip computer after about 2700 miles (25 mpg on a recent roundtrip up to North Conway from Boston, though). However, I've found that the actual mileage is about 1 mpg less than what the computer says. Would this even be possible or is the turbo an integral part of the entire engine that could not be just shut off?

In relation to the fuel gauge, I have another question. It seems that the first quarter of the tank on the gauge is more than the other three quarters - I can go about 110 miles before I hit 3/4 tank but then I'm around 180-190 by half a tank. This was the case on my old outback as well. Is this just the way subaru does it or are other fuel gauges on other cars similar?

Thanks,

Nate

robr2 · January 2005

Fuel gauges typically are not very linear. Also, if you top off your tank when refueling, you are actually overfilling the tank into the fill tube - the fuel float can't measure that added fuel so the gauge thinks the tank stays full longer.

As for the turbo on/off switch - it's located in your right foot.

robr2 · January 2005

...with most cars today that should throw a check engine light. The gas cap is part of the emissions system.

locke2c · January 2005

you can get a boost controller and turn the boost down.

I'd recommend using a complete engine management system that ties into the factory boost solenoid and use a fuel economy map-- or have one made if none exists, I'm not sure what Cobb and Vishnu are up to these days.

-- OR --

just watch what you do with your right foot..

-- OR --

live with lower fuel economy. you have 250 HP!

~c

occking · January 2005

Had the radio (Commander) removed from my MAXX today & reinstalled into new Outback. The service man (from Auto Sound, Wrenthan, MA) came to dealer I purchased car from to do the job. Took approx two hours total, but about 2/3 of the time was spent in removing the radio from car I was turning in. Turns out there is a little something different about the Subaru. Something to do with lead in antenna, it is kind of a different connection than with most other cars. But, this did not pose any problem--the installer had to do a little splicing. The best thing was that he suggested I could keep the antenna that comes with it on the inside of the dashboard right up against the window. If it doesn't work fine there can come back & they could put it on the roof. I am very pleased because the magnetic mount that came with the radio on the first place was not holding that tightly. I could not go into a car wash without if moving a bit (and scratching the roof) Now that it inside, so far, it works find. Will know in a few days if the radio will work ok like this.

kens · January 2005

As Colin and robr2 mentioned, the easiest way to control boost is with your right foot. A boost gauge can also help you to know what type of accelerator usage induces boost.

Another way to think of a turbocharged engine is that it's already saving you gas by not always being in boost. Enjoy the 250HP!

Ken

kens · January 2005

Glad to hear it went well. It sounds like the installer did something similar to what Craig did with his iPod connection -- modifying the stock antenna cable.

Ken

luck11 · January 2005

Anybody else noticing lots of squeaks and rattles in the interior of their O5s?

I have an abnormally high number of rattles/squeaks in my OBXTL with the onset of cold weather. My 2000 OB was very silent, even during the winter months.

Cheers,

Jay.

saedave · January 2005

None in my 2005 VDC...except the license plate when closing the hatch. That will require a small pad adhered to the back of the plate to fix.

locke2c · January 2005

jay, ever had a vehicle with leather before? my '95 M3 and '93 Taurus SHO both squeaked like mad.

~c

rwoods · January 2005

Jay,

No squeeks or rattles to report in my '05 OBXT Ltd.

Bob

tsy · January 2005

I've had some 'crackles and pops' from my center console and glove box.

I took the side trim pieces off the center console, put clear vinyl tape over all the contact areas, and reinstalled them. All the center console crackles disappeared.

The glove box crackles are new since it got cold here in Seattle- seems to improve once the car warms up. I haven't had time to take it apart yet and fix those squeaks though.

I just chalked it up to first year production woes.

tom

vetmats · January 2005

tom,

Where did you get your clear vinyl tape? I have looked for some, but I don't think that I really know what I'm looking for.

Thanks.

63corvette · January 2005

Tire Report

Goodyear Assurance Triple-Tread

Vehicle - 2004 2.5I Subaru Outback Wagon, 5MT

Disclaimer: This is a Tire Report, NOT a tire recommendation.

After reading many discouraging reports from Subaru Outback owners, and other car owners whose vehicles came equipped with OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE92 tires, I decided, with winter approaching, to buy new tires for my car. Although my tires had only 4500 miles on them, and handled acceptably on dry pavement, I knew about the hydroplaning issues and the feeling that they were dangerous in winter driving (snow and ice) conditions.

I am already familiar with Blizzak WS50 tires because I have them on a RWD 6MT, 95 Pontiac Trans Am, and I have other Blizzak studless ice tires on a 92 Ford Explorer, I considered those tires at the top of my list of winter tires. However, because buying tires for the AWD Outback requires 4 tires, and because I did not want to buy 4 new tires and still have to deal with hydroplaning and poor tire wear when summer returned, I also looked for a better All Season tire as a possible replacement for the RE92s.

I considered the BF Goodrich Traction H tire which got very good reviews for snow traction on the TireRack tire review section. However, I noted that they also had some negative comments, such as excessive tire cupping at early mileage, and possibly some alignment issues. I also considered the Turanza and the Michelin tires.

However, while reading the survey results, I read several reports of this new Goodyear Triple Tread tire which (on the surface) seemed to be all things to all seasons, and to fill all needs (dry weather, rain, and winter conditions). In addition, it had several unique features: 1) It had a 30 day trial period, 2) It had a rebate, making it cheap, and 3) It had an 80,000 mile wear rating (740?). On the down side, they are only T speed rated. I decided on the basis of the owners reviews, to buy a set.

I ordered a set of 4, in size 225X60TR16 from Discount Tire.com (because the TireRack was out of them) for $105ea ($420.00 to my door, with no tax and no shipping they were slightly cheaper than the TireRack at $104ea + shipping), minus the $50.00 rebate. Most people seemed to think they were great in snow, in spite of the fact that there had been little or no snow at that time (I bought mine at Thanksgiving). However, there were a few negative comments that seemed to indicate a possible tramlining problem on some cars. Also, some people felt they rode harsher, and some felt they were noisy (and were quicker steering).

My experience:

I had my tires mounted at a local tire store for $11.00/tire, mounted and balanced (hand torqued). Where my Blizzak tires gave a very mushy handling feeling, these Triple Tread tires give a very crisp handling feeling on dry or wet surface roads. I now have 6700 miles, and thus about 2200 miles of mostly winter miles here in the northwest (Washington state). We have had a late winter this year, so I have had no deep snow to drive in (yet). However, we had about 2 here in the Tri-Cities, and I have been on two ski trips; one to Mt. Hood and to Mt. Bachelor in Oregon, and one to Schweitzer Resort near Sandpoint, Idaho (I90 has ruts due to studded tire wear). In all cases, I had fresh snow on pavement, fresh snow over ice, and old hardpacked, rutted snow to drive on as well as ice covered parking lots. I can report that I have had absolutely NO problems whatsoever. The tires are quieter on most surfaces than the Bridgestones (however, some rough pavement results in high relative noise levels). The tires provide very quick steering, and high levels of lateral acceleration (grip) wet or dry. When they reach their limits, they provide a very gradual breakaway. My car has only 165HP, so I cant induce power oversteer in wet or dry conditions, however, on snow or ice, my limited slip differential can provide power oversteer (steering with the throttle) in 1st and 2nd gear, in spite of the AWD. At higher speeds and in higher gears, the limit usually results in understeer (the front end pushes). This is easily modulated by easing the throttle, resulting in the rear wheels following the front wheels (neutral steering). The tires are completely free from wander, tramlining and instability at ANY speed, and provide a feel of confidence in all weather. I have not had deep water to try them for hydroplaning, however, I can report that in inches of slush they provide adequate steering feel. In fact, the sole caveat that I can think of to pass on to prospective buyers is that they do not turn well on snow or ice.....that is they dont turn AS well as studless ice tires. Therefore, (particularly on downhill turns) get all of your speed modulation (acceleration or braking) done in a straight line, and THEN begin turning from a safe speed. The rule should be In slow, Out fast. These tires provide outstanding grip on most any surface, including backing uphill out of an ice covered parking spot, and a standing start on ice. TURNING on ice should be approached the same way as WALKING on ice (and at the same speed). I have not yet had a chance to test the wear factor (obviously) but will be happy if I get half of the promised 80,000 miles. I like these tires. However, consider your vehicle and tire manufactures directions prior to deciding on a replacement tire.

luck11 · January 2005

Thanks folks. My XT is going into the dealer for 1st oil/filter change and this will be on the "list".

Colin: No, this is my first leather. I have a few consistent squeaks/rattles do not seem to be coming from any of the leather surfaces, although I understand how the leather could be noisy when rubbing against itself or plastic trim, especially when cold.

Cheers,

Jay.

tsy · January 2005

It's a clear version of that black vinyl electrical tape. I cut it up into small strips to fit the areas of contact on the plastic side trim and also on the center console (in essence, doubling the tape per contact area). It's invisible from the outside and now, blessedly quiet! ;-)

You should be able to get some from your local hardware store. I'm sure if you're careful black tape would work too.

tom

locke2c · January 2005

another thing that works great on squeaks and rattles is double-stick tape. here's the trick: only peel one side. it's thick and squishy and dampens rattles between objects nicely.

~Colin

has to deal with this a lot with a big stereo

rwoods · January 2005

Corvette,

Thank you for such a detailed, well written review of the Goodyear tires. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Bob

Long Island

tsy · January 2005

Colin- you mean like, double sided scotch tape? Or like foam tape?

tom

kens · January 2005

My 05 has been fairly quiet even during the colder weather. I did have one rattle in my center console, but it turned out the silver ring around the 5EAT shifter was loose. I pushed it in with my finger and the rattle went away.

Some dealers use foam weatherstripping to chase down rattles.

Ken

c_hunter · January 2005

I bet it's the trim pieces along the sides of the center console as Tom mentioned. Mine made a racket until I lined them with tape (I prefer nylon tape for this kind of thing). Subaru could definitely stand to improve the way these pieces attach.

Craig

timo1745 · January 2005

..and ordered a set of Firestone WinterForce M+S tires (size 225/60-SR16) mounted on steel rims from tirerack.com as a package. Had been contemplating getting snows to mount on the stock 17" rims, then getting a set of nicer wheels/tires for summer use, but being so close to the holidays, cost was an issue. Besides, I guess the stock rims ain't so bad after all. Including shipping, the out-the-door cost was $492 for the package. Since they mount/balance the tires when purchased as part of a tire/wheel package, I really could not have done any better price-wise, even if I had opted to buy a set in 17" and use my stock rims.

Anyway, I'll post more later once I've had a chance to try these WinterForce tires out a little, especially in the snow/ice.

G'night, all...

Tim G.

'05 OBXTL-5MT

ps: Nicely done review, 63Corvette! Thanks for the info.

63corvette · January 2005

Thanks All

subaru_man · January 2005

I just bought a 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5i wagon and

was pressured to purchased the Manufacturers

Maintenance program for 1200.00 for 12 oil change,

15k service, 30k service, and 45k service on my

new car. I thought it was a BIG rip off but the

guy said that if I didn't do it I could VOID my

new car warranty against any defect. He also said

that if someone else was doing the maintenance,

all the parts had to be of Subaru make? Is this

true? This is my first time purchasing a new car

and need some advice. I can still call to cancel

the prepay maintenance program but need advice on

how to get the dealer to honor the warranty if

something should happen? Thanks in advance. Any

opinion is greatly appreciated.

sduford · January 2005

That does sound like a rip-off, you could get an extended warranty for that price. There is no way they can void your warranty as long as the minimum prescribed maintenance is done appropriately.

Sounds to me like the dealer is using unethical sales tactics, I would consider going somewhere else for your maintenance if you already bought the car.

Sly

poisson · January 2005

The statement "if I didn't do it I could VOID my

new car warranty against any defect" is an outright lie. The dealer will honor the warranty unless they can tell that the scheduled maintenance was not followed. Many people do their own oil changes and never have a problem as long as you document what was done.

Speak to the sales manager (I assume it was not him/her that pressured you) and I would also consider calling SOA and reporting the pressure tactic you dealt with.

Such behavior is uncalled for.

lumbar · January 2005

Very lame tactic by whoever told you that, and, as already pointed out, a lie.

Cancel immediately and save the receipts for your maintenance, which hopefully you'll have performed elsewhere.

Frankly, I'd look over the rest of the deal as well if they're capable of that.

bkaiser1 · January 2005

The dealer who pressured you into buying that policy under the guise of "if you don't you will pay" is a shameful example of what, unfortunately, is still prevalent in the car business. You absolutely don't have to spend that kind of money to service your car AND keep your warranty intact. As long as you check and replace the things that are outlined in your manual when they are called for, you'll be fine with the warranty.

In the 30k miles I've put on my WRX, it's never been to the dealer for any service (I've done them myself) but I have all my receipts for the parts (oil filters, oil, etc) handy in case I ever needed them. Save yourself the $1200 -- it's a total ripoff -- and be sure to call 1-800-subaru-3 to report that shady dealer.

Brian

dcm61 · January 2005

He also said that if someone else was doing the maintenance, all the parts had to be of Subaru make?

That is also a lie. While I personally use Subaru parts, the manufacturer cannot make that a requirement unless they supply the parts for FREE.

DaveM

kens · January 2005

Grrrr. I hate those high pressure sales tactics that some dealers use. Even worse are those that ouright lie.

It's up to the dealer to prove that something the owner did to the vehicle resulted in damage/failure. Only then can they deny you warranty work. If you are following typical maintenance work (either at a Subaru dealership or an independent shop) there should be no reason why warranty work would be denied to you.

For your peace of mind, call Subaru of America a call at 1-800-SUBARU3 and explain to them the situation and verify that your warranty will hold. It might be nice to have the facts from a trusted source.

Ken

c_hunter · January 2005

I am really glad you posted here for a sanity check. As others have said, it's a lousy sales tactic and a lie. Even if you wanted the maintenance, I would caution that it's a poor way to allocate your money and a great way for the dealer to line their pockets. In general, the rules of economic analysis say that paying ahead for services are a bad idea. Wouldn't you much rather have all that money in your pocket and pay as you go??

I spend $10-20 per oil change (depending on whether I do it or the dealer does it). When doing the 30K maintenance on our Subarus, I usually spend $60-80 on parts, fluids, etc, and 3-4 hours of labor. So my estimates peg 45K worth of maintenance at roughly $160 for a do-it-yourselfer or $400-500 for dealer servicing.

Like the other guys, I would caution you to carefully look over the deal, as these guys may be trying to rip you off in other ways. You should be paying approximately invoice price for the car, which is anywhere from $2K to $3K under sticker. The Edmunds pricing guides can give you more details on MSRP and invoice pricing. Hope that helps!

Craig

luck11 · January 2005

It seems some of the trim around the quarter glass in the rear was missing the clips. They have been ordered. Some squeaks may also be a result of broken clips by the installers of my remote starter...I'll have to speak to them.

BTW, heads up. The brake light housing in my rear spoiler was loose and rattled a bit. It seems that after checking a few other Soobs on the lot, the dealer found it to be a common problem. It turns out that the entire spoiler assembly was not tightened as much as it should have been. They tightened everything up.

Cheers,

Jay

stimulust · January 2005

My GF and I drove my XT 5MT from So. Cal to Austin, TX for the holidays. The trip started with 900 miles on the ODO and we returned with just under 5K. The trip out was great with highway mpg growing from 21 to just over 25 with cruise set to around 80mph. My best tank was 25.6mpg across the flat AZ desert at night. These values are calculated from delta miles/fuel to click (when the pump turns off) and are usually 1-2mpg lower than the average estimated on the dash. No snow to play in, but passing in 5th was no problem when desired and the car is very smooth and quiet in cruise mode at 80mph. I saw A LOT of other OBs (seems to be the road trip car of choice), but few foresters. I was the only 05OB. On a deserted stretch I took it up to around 110 before slowing down. Aside from the increased wind noise at 95+, the car was still very quiet and did not jostle or buffet around. At White Sands, NM, I was able to test the cornering in a huge sand lot and noticed some understeer doing tight circles, which reduced throttle quickly corrected. I was trying to learn the handling of the car but the GF did not like it, so I did not try anymore. The car was responsive at all speeds and the brights spread light to the side very well to spot deer at night. On our way out the rear gate (when raised) would rub the body on the top right side upon opening only. Also, the pass. side window control became intermittent. Oil was changed at 3500miles at the dealer in Austin and the rear gate was adjusted to not rub. Window switch was determined faulty, but was not available for replacement. Being 6-3, the front seat is a bit short and during the extended hours, the seats became hard and uncomfortable, probably because of my awkward sitting position. With regards to squeaking, the car is very quiet except for the center console. My rt leg rests against the center console and makes it squeak when I lean into it. I just tried this today when the car was cold and I could not reproduce it, so it probably only happens when it is warm. All in all, very happy with the vehicle, GF loves the seat heaters, Dad liked the turbo, and rest of family liked the interior and exterior.

A couple questions:

1. Has any body else had the rear gate rub or window switch problem?

2. I read the thread about the vinyl tape reducing the squeak and would like to try it: How do you get the paneling off the center console?

3. I had modified my last car to move the seats aft 4 and would like to do this again. I was thinking of doing this at the floor / seat interface. Has anyone had their seat out and seen how much room is down there / the bolt pattern, etc, thought about this or tried this?

A side note: Went to the local mountains yesterday to ski (in someone elses FWD car) where it was snowing mildly throughout the day. Posted signs read 4WD with snow tires OK, carry chains. Road was completely covered with fresh snow, compacted snow, and ice. Out of the 25 or so Subarus (WRX, OB, For), only one 05 wrx had cables on the front. Do you all carry cables and use them in emergencies or just not carry them at all?

-jer

05 OBXT-5MT

5100 mi

luck11 · January 2005

Well, dealer tried my OB XTL 5MT and said it was consistent with the other XT's they've driven. Even the area rep confirmed that it is consistent with other turbo's.

The response from Subaru Canada via dealer is that it is not abnormal and it is within specs. What a cop out. It may not be "abnormal" for the Subaru turbos, but its not normal for any car to hesitate like this...period. I can't blame the dealer...they have no fix and there is only so much they can do without Subaru Canada. I hope the hesitation settles down with more mileage, and hope that Subaru Canada/America get their heads out of the sand and provide a fix. But, I'm not holding my breath.

Subaru's denial or refusal to act is only hurting their own reputation. A friend who was seriously considering an OB XT is now steering clear (sorry for the pun) of Subaru because he finds the hesitation annoying and is not impressed by Subaru's lack of action on the matter.

Great dealer....not so great customer service from Corporate Subaru.

Cheers,

Jay

c_hunter · January 2005

My rear spoiler (mounted on the liftgate) was rubbing the roof in the upper corner of the rear hatch opening on the passenger side. I was able to loosen a couple small bolts and re-align the spoiler (moved it about 1/16 to 1/8 inch). It was a pretty simple fix.

For the 5MT, pull up the trim bezel around the shifter along with the boot. Apparently, you can reach under the edge of the shifter opening to pull the trim piece up (not sure about this as I have 5EAT and the procedure is different).

Once that bezel is out of the way, you will see a screw at the rear of each side trim piece. Remove the screws, and then pull the trim pieces off (start at the rear and work forward). There are 3-4 clips along the length of the trim. You can use tape to line the mating surfaces of the trim, and the clips too, then reassemble everything.

CRaig

tsy · January 2005

Hi jer

As Craig described, it's pretty easy (the 5MT is not much different than the AT). The entire trim with the shift knob and boot can come off as one piece. I just unscrewed my shift knob (leaving it connected to the boot) and if you pull the center console piece (with the ashtray) on the back/bottom of the shifter boot it will pop right off. Remove the screws and carefully pop off the side trim pieces (there are clips at the level of the radio, HVAC controls, and at about the level of the ashtray).

Just be careful when you pop it back in, you can scrape your parking brake boot. (I learned this the hard way). The second time I put it back together I used a small thin credit card piece of plastic (like a calling card) to protect the leather/vinyl boot which worked well.

Good luck!

tom

c_hunter · January 2005

That reminds me -- you can actually lift the parking brake boot up and away from the console to solve the problem Tom mentioned. It snaps back down afterwards.

CRaig

ateixeira · January 2005

Print a copy of the Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act and shove the paper in his face when you demand a refund.

If it were truly required, Subaru OE parts that is, then by law Subaru would have to give it to you for free! So tell him he needs to either renegotiate the price down the ZERO or you want your money back.

Peeves me like nothing else...

-juice

kyfdx · January 2005

Hmmm.. Good advice... I'm sure that will make for a satisfying business relationship...

Just kidding...

But, mentioning Magnusso-Moss, holdback, invoice, etc, etc.. will only help you vent your frustration, not get anything accomplished...

ateixeira · January 2005

Who would want a relationship with a dishonest dealer like that anyway? Do you really think you could ever benefit from it?

I'd bail and find another dealer nearby. Complain to the managers and say why they lost your business, too.

He didn't get the refund yet, that's why I mentioned the Magnussen Moss Act.

-juice

kyfdx · January 2005

Okay.. but, how does it help throwing it in his face? I'm sure they are aware of it.. And, if they aren't aware? They won't know what it means anyway... I'd call Subaru and mention it though...

But, I agree... get your money and get out..

ateixeira · January 2005

Well, the idea is to let them know that you are aware of it, and that as an informed consumer you will not put up with dishonesty.

Demand a refund, and service your car elsewhere.

-juice

wannabeclmbr · January 2005

Is my only option in an '05 LL Bean Outback to use an FM Mod with my Sirius plug and play radio? Or can I get in via RCA connection? Please help? If so, how do I get back there? Cheers!

occking · January 2005

I just had XM Commander unit installed in my 05 Outback 2.5 limited. Yes, there is a little something different about the way the fm modulator connects to the antenna, or rather the radio in the vehicle. The installer had to to a little splicing of the antenna lead but any good installer that knows what he is doing should have no problem. I am very please cause the magnetic mount I had with the radio in my other car sat on the roof in the center just in back of the windshield & I could never take to a car wash cause the darn thing would move around & scratch the car. This installer put it inside on the left hand corner of the dash up close to the window & the reception seems to be about 95% of what it was before. Certainly something I could live with. Also, there is an absolutely perfect spot to put the control unit. Laying flat just in back of the shifter in front of the storage unit on the console. Perfect and now I don't have to use the remote to change stations--just as easy to use the control unit directly. If anyone wants will take some pictures & try to figure out a way of getting them on this board. Not sure yet on gas mileage. First fill up computer indicated 21.3 mpg and actual was 19.3. But, I usually fill to brim & dealer may not have when they filled it (why should they squeeze in another few dollars worth?) so actual mileage may have been a little closer to what trip computer indicated. And, this first fill up was mostly short distances, not the usual long trips I go on. Will get it's first test Monday when I make a long trip from here (near Providence, RI) up through Maine into New Brunswick around to Quebec City down to Montreal & back home. That should be a 1300 or so mile trip. Will report back to everyone how I do on gas mileage.

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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