Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

sduford · March 2005

Sounds like he set you up with an FM transmitter, not with an FM Modulator. Tha latter being a direct connection which should give you much better quality and no interference.

Sly

katway · March 2005

"I absolutely love my VDC and would not trade it for any vehicle on the road today. I highly recommend the VDC over the LLBean if you can afford the VDC system. The system has only engaged once in 8 months, but it saved a tremendous insurance bill and potentially my life. Recent IIHS test results indicate that vehicle stability systems drastically reduce the rate of single car (driver error) crashes by nearly 60%. In their results listed today, I believe SUV's with stability control maintained the lowest fatality rates while SUV's without stability systems fared the worst of all cars. All in all... VDC is well worth the $1000! The stereo is not bad either."

-- Ditto. I love my VDC. Well worth the extra $, especially if you consider it over the length of the entire ownership period.

With respect to gas mileage, I agree 100%. I think it's great for this type of vehicle. Premium gas is absolutely required to avoid rough idle, etc. The 93 octane Shell is the best.

khallock · March 2005

I have an 05 LLBean and I think something is wrong with it. When I first got it the Avg MPG went up to 19.1 at its highest. That is driving some main streets and back roads here in VT. Mostly averaging around 40mph. Then, it just started going down. It might have been around the time I got my snow tires on? But maybe it was before that. Now I get 17.1. What gives?

I do admit my driving is probably not that conducive to good MPG, but it hasn't changed from when I was getting 19.1 miles to the gallon. My DH doesn't drive the car, but once he was with me on the highway and he said it smelled funny, like a brake was stuck. Then the smell went away. I can't smell anything because I am constantly stuffed up from allergies. I am going to make an appointment at Subaru to get an oil change and have them see if there is anything up with the brakes. It does kind of worry me that my MPG is so low. As of today it was 17.1.

Besides my gas mileage woes, I love the car.

kmclean · March 2005

If you think you have a "dragging" brake (typically a hung caliper), you might notice the car "pulling" in the direction of that brake (with hands off the steering wheel), especially if it's a front brake. Another quick 'n dirty check is to drive the car for several miles (at least - more if it's cold) trying NOT to apply the brakes at all (perhaps between interstate exits) then stop the car and hop out and place your hands on the wheels. A dragging brake can generate enough heat to be noticeable simply by checking the "wheel temperature" of all four wheels.

Good luck!

Ken in Seattle

timo1745 · March 2005

khallock-

While I don't have an LL Bean model, from your narrative, I think you might've outlined a pretty good "recipe" for why your gas mileage isn't optimum.

1) It's winter: If VT uses oxygenated fuel (to reduce emissions) during cold weather, knock 2-3 MPG off your mileage for that.

2) Snow tires: Most every snow tire I've run across has a more aggressive tread for the purpose of gripping snow/ice. This adds rolling resistance, and reduces gas mileage. How much? Only you can tell (given how/where you drive) by paying attention to your mileage after you swap back to your summer treads. I've seen probably a 1-2.5 MPG reduction with my snow tires.

3) Average speeds: Since your average speeds are less than highway speeds, your LL Bean is definitely not taking advantage of its higher gearing. Consequently, your gas mileage won't stray far from it's "City" mileage listing. With my XT's summer tires, I get probably around 18-20 MPG with pure "around town" driving, between 25-27 MPG when driving between 55-70 MPH, and between 22-24 MPG when driving over 70 MPH sustained (don't even ask about 85+...you won't like the answer!).

4) Miles on car: I don't believe you mentioned how many miles you have on your car, but if you've read any of the comments on this board Re: gas mileage specific to vehicle mileage, you'll see that nearly everyone on this board has reported substantially better gas mileage after their cars have had a chance to break-in, e.g., between 10k-20k miles. Again, I don't know how many miles you have on your car, so this may or may not pertain to you.

5) Driving style: I believe you said "I do admit my driving is probably not that conducive to good MPG"...I took that as: "I'm a little heavy on the pedal". This is one of the biggest mileage-killers you'll find on ANY car.

Keep in mind, each of the items above would add to the cumulative reduction in gas mileage! That's a lot of variables/factors, huh?

So, just from the information you've provided, I think you've probably also provided your own answer. Some variables are beyond your control (e.g., "Winter", "Snow tires", "Average speeds", "Mileage on Car") but those pertaining to "season" should change soon, as will your engine breaking-in if it hasn't already. One of the largest contributors is "Driving Style", which only you can change if the gas mileage is that important to you.

Hope that helps!

Rgds,
Tim G.
'05 OBXT - 5MT
11k miles and climbing

ozman62 · March 2005

rsholland · March 2005

There's a report over at nabisco that some SOA big chesse from Japan was here in the States visiting some dealer, and stated that we're getting a lightweight, autocross oriented WRX model for '06. It sounds like a stripped version, sans a/c, thinner glass, and so forth.

WR = weight reduction

The guy reporting this supposedly spoke directly to this SOJ guy.

Bob

njswamplands · March 2005

ok they are going to make an autocross version but driving autocross voids the warranty????????????

khallock · March 2005

Ken - We ended up stopping by Subaru on the day my husband noticed the brake smell and they told us the same thing. Maybe I will try that this weekend!

Tim - Thanks for that long post. It was pretty helpful!

I'm not sure if VT uses oxygenated fuel or not. Is there a way to tell at the pumps? I have just over 7000 miles on my car so far. I got it in late August. I do drive on the interstate sometimes, but its never a long drive, so I dont think its enough to see an improvement in my gas mileage. (And I like to do over 70 alot!) You're right I need to change my driving style in order to get better MPG. I'm going to have a baby in November so maybe that will turn me into a more conservative driver? I can only hope! I'm not a crazy psycho driver, but I am not a slow one either. LOL. Oh well! Thanks very much for your post.

The other thing I noticed about my Outback a few weeks ago is that they must have damaged the back window when they installed it. I have a huge chip in the lower right corner, on the inside. You can't get to it from the inside or outside, because its covered my the frame of the car. So it must have been there since I purchased it, I just never noticed. I am going to see if they will replace this when I have my next service. I also got a letter saying they need to reprogram my "Manual" mode with new software, so I will have that done also.

Thanks again!
Kristen

ateixeira · March 2005

I can't believe you didn't squeeze that post into the title!

You're slacking off, man! LOL

-juice

c_hunter · March 2005

Bob,

They have offered something like this before in Japan -- Car and Driver did a write up a few years ago:

"Further complicating things is the designation of our test car: Type RA Spec C. RA stands for "Rally Applicant." It's a car intended to go racing and is, therefore, stripped of luxuries such as a sound system of any kind, air conditioning, power windows, trunk trim, airbags, underbody coating, and other thingsall in the name of weight reduction. It also has an adjustable center differential that can be locked from the cockpit and a roof vent that opens manuallyas on rally racers. The hood and roof metal is thinner, and so is the car's glass. It has a quicker steering ratio."

I believe the US STi already has some weight reduction over the standard WRX, including thinner glass.

Craig

c_hunter · March 2005

Kristen, unless the glass chip is visibly bad looking and bothers you (or poses a known safety hazard), I would stick with the factory glass. You're probably asking for problems getting this replaced by the dealer -- they typically massacre jobs like this! Maybe get it documented in case it ever becomes a real problem.

Craig

khallock · March 2005

Craig, thanks for the tip. I think you are right and thats probably the way to go. I dont mind that its there, but if it ever cracks further I dont want to be the one to have to pay for a new one, kwim? Documenting it is probably the best thing to do.

occking · March 2005

I had it done, real simple. Taken out of my Malibu MAXX. The only thing that was a little different was the way the antenna connects to the modulator. I had the same company that installed in my first car switch it over to Outback. The guy knew what he was doing & there is a little something unusual about installing in a Subaru, but it can be done. Cost me $125. I have the XM Commander Unit. There is a perfect spot for the control unit. It sits flat on the space immediately in front of the gear shift mechanism, between that the the two controls for heated seats. Much better location than my previous car. Real easy to change stations without having to use the remote. One other thing, and this is rather interesting. They put the antenna on the driver side of the dash, inside the car. Not as good as with previous car in which it was on roof next to front windshield but at least now I can go to a car wash without the antenna moving & scratching the roof. Lose a little reception--maybe 5 to 10% of the time but I can live with that.

ssminton · March 2005

Interesting comment on the "chip". I noticed the exact same thing about a week ago! Maybe it is a Vermont thing? or at least a cold weather thing? I had made a trip to the dealer for an oil change and asked about it. It is definitely on the inside of the glass in the "black" area of the passenger side of the rear hatch. The dealer suggested that it looked like the adhesive back that makes the glass look black had given way there. We decided to leave it alone unless it got worse.

As far as Vermont gas goes, I get some of my best mileage out of the Rutland Shell station so my guess is that Vermont is treating gas the same as any other New England state. I regularly purchase gas in PA, NJ, NY, and VT.

Not sure how to post a picture on the forum, but if someone advises me... I will try and get a picture of the "chip" posted.

ssminton · March 2005

I put the XM Commander in the same spot. Once you know XM there is no reason to look at the device too often. It certainly makes it easy to adjust.

I am still suffering through the "jury-rigged" antenna connection. I have refused to go with the modulator because I know the direct antenna connection produces a better result. Eventually, they will get the plug made. That's what I get for buying a 2005 in July of 2004.

c_hunter · March 2005

Well, I made my own antenna adapter, and a guy is making them and selling them on the LegacyGT forum now.

Craig

khallock · March 2005

ssminton - Too wierd that you have the same chip and you are in Vermont too. Hmmm...I got my Outback from Burlington Subaru. Did you get yours from the dealer in Rutland? Maybe it is just the adhesive. I will look at is more closely. So I guess you are saying that VT does not oxygenate its gas? I asked my husband and he didnt even know what oxygenated gas was. So I assumed the VT doesn't.

subefan · March 2005

I have the same chip in my back window in the same place,I have a outback xt and I haven't been to the dealer yet. I will be going in for an oil change soon and get it documented. I'm located in central maine and got my car from Charlies Subaru. maybe a defect in window installation with cold climate.

fj60 · March 2005

I didn't get a response the last time I posted so I'll try again. Is a jiggling noise from the sunroof normal when driving over rough roads, lane markers, etc. while the sunshade is open? Is it simply inherent with a sunroof so large?

FJ-60
'05 Legacy GT Wgn Lmt 5MT

khallock · March 2005

fj60 - My husband noticed the same noise on our Outback. I didn't really hear it but he closed the shade and determined that was where the noise was coming from. I dont know why the noise was happening I just wanted to post that we had the same thing happen. Cheers!

ssminton · March 2005

The chip might have something to do with the temperature extremes this time of year. You figure overnight it could still be near zero, especially a few weeks ago. During the day it is near freezing, but the direct sun on the black surface would be much warmer. As I said in the previous post, I do not intend to do anything unless it becomes a structural problem. I plan on keeping the car for a while!

I purchased my VDC from a dealer in Bethlehem, PA. I split my time between PA and VT. The Lehigh Valley is not "VDC" country so I believe they actually got the car from the Washington DC area.

For oxygenated gas, I am sure that the gas has winter additives, otherwise it would not run well and potentially freeze. I just don't think VT's gas is any different (at least it does not seem to negatively affect mileage) than any other winter gas in the Northeast.

dt63944 · March 2005

All I use in freezing weather is Prestone DeIcer (yellow/1 gallon); I drive the night shift a lot in the middle of nowhere, so I can't afford poor visibility. Get it in 6-packs at BJ's. but it's available for more $$ elsewhere (Walmart, etc). I think they've changed the formula a bit in the last year or so because in below 20-degree weather at highway speeds (55+), there is a trace of icing on the windshield after the wipers make a pass through the fluid - however, the refreezing is far less than any other fluid I've used. Around mid-May, when the threat of freezing weather is past, I switch to Prestone Bug Remover (1 gallon, green), which has a high detergent content, but no freeze protection.

kens · March 2005

I don't seem to get that noise on my LGT wagon under the conditions you describe.

Is it jiggling like loose mechanical parts? Is it still there when you open the sunroof?

Ken

fj60 · March 2005

It sounds like something's loose . . . or just vibrating. It's not loud, but it's there. I hear it when only the sunshade is open.

FJ60

Thanks for the info, khallock.

dsattler · March 2005

None from the sunroof on my Legacy GT Limited wagon, regardless of whether the sunshade is open or closed.

fj60 · March 2005

hmmm . . . I'll have the dealer check out my sunroof during the next oil change. I just wanted to be prepared in the event they say "all the Legacy wagon sunroofs make that noise."

FJ60

rorkin · March 2005

I would appreciate it if you could point me to that guy as I cant seem to find any mention of adapters for sale..

Thanks

poisson · March 2005

I get the noise on mine and I determined that it is coming from the bracket at the back end of the sunroof. It only appears to happen when it is open (I assume because when it is closed the bracket it tight?).
I am due for the 15K oil change here shortly and will have the dealer take a look.

rorkin · March 2005

I am unclear by what you mean by the "standard FM
connectors"... I am trying to connect the sirius version of the commander... I have a brand new outback and assume I have the non standard connector... Help !! :-)
Thanks

rorkin · March 2005

I also live in Allentown... (small world)Could you possibly hook me up with your "Audio Guru" so I could get an aftermarket plug..
Thanks

ssminton · March 2005

The Subaru Audio dealer in the Lehigh Valley is A&S Installation. They are located on the North side of Union Blvd just west of Airport Road (next to Wendy's). Phone number 610.439.6644. Faulkner does all their "after-market" work there, which is who recommended the dealer to me. My XM is still not optimal, for I have the VDC radio. I believe the standard Outback antenna plug is now available through one of their distributors. If not, their installation people know how to get the system to work. Until the plug is available though, you will notice some FM interference in the cities. The Lehigh Valley is fine though.

If you talk to Pete, ask him if my VDC adapter part is available yet?

Good Luck!

c_hunter · March 2005

Sounds like you are using a wireless transmitter and not a modulator. If you hardwire a modulator into the antenna lead like I did, it bypasses the antenna and radio stations cannot interfere -- there would be no interference anywhere. Any good radio installer can do this now -- no need to wait for the adapter.

Craig

rorkin · March 2005

Thanks for the help,, I will call them next week..
I am just learning about these radio problems
What is a vdc radio.. ??. I am guessing the OEM
Subaru Radio..??

c_hunter · March 2005

VDC is the top model in the Outback line. It has the same 6-CD changer/radio as the other models with auto climate control, with the exception that it plays MP3 CDs in addition to regular CDs.

Craig

sduford · March 2005

The VDC also has upgraded speakers and it comes standard with a sub-woofer mounted in the cargo area.

Sly

rorkin · March 2005

Interestingly enough , even though I have what appears to be the B radio, a strong light on the display reveals a "sat" position.. Looks like it is to be an option down the road even though no aux input...Also for what it is worth.. A CD burned as a traditional audio disk with .mp3 files
will play.. I expect the penalty is not as much capacity as a standard mp3 disc and no ability to
index , sort or get any text information on the file

rorkin · March 2005

Thanks for the help on the Sat radio install.. I am set up with your guy for an install next week. I split my time between Allentown and Eastern Shore of MD... I have found on my previous Wireless Modulated Sat radio that 88.3 seems to work all the way into the Balt/Washington Market... Your experience may vary :-).. Thanks again for all the help

duke_wa · March 2005

We love our 1998 Legacy Outback Limited Wagon. It is a picture of solidity. Talk about quality and nice features. We will definitely shop for another Subaru in 3 to 4 years.

sweet_subie · March 2005

http://www.smartmoney.com/autos/newcars/index.cfm?story=march2005

sduford · March 2005

Weird comparo. They really should have used the Legacy, which is more comparable to the 3 others.

Sly

rsholland · March 2005

I was thinking the same thing.

Bob

kens · March 2005

Ditto here. The OBXT is sporty, but the GT wagon would have been a better contender.

Is it me or did the review seem unfairly biased towards the BMW? Everything I've read about the xi has been less than flattering. Also, auto climate control and sunroof -- don't the other models provide this standard?

Ken

ssminton · March 2005

The XM Commander is a direct connect to the antenna which should block all FM interference when in use. Unfortunately, the VDC radio is different from the other Outback radios. There is currently no way to connect the XM Commander to the antenna slot on the Radio. I continue to check in with my audio person. He can now connect the standard radios but still not mine. Currently my unit is acting as its own modulator but not well. If you have any specifics on how to direct connect to my radio I would appreciate it. Just took a trip to MD this weekend. I get interference all the way:(

ssminton · March 2005

Let me know how the install goes. Hopefully, I can finally get mine working well. Drove down the Eastern Shore this weekend. My current set up struggles through Phila and Willmington.

squirtdad · March 2005

I'm not quite at test drive mode yet, but would like to get impressions from those those who have driven both.

thanks

ateixeira · March 2005

Come on guys, don't you know Smart Money is the authority on automobiles? LOL

Pretty dumb to compare an Outback instead of the GT, really. The whole premise is faulty.

Compare Outback to an allroad or a XC70 instead.

-juice

rorkin · March 2005

I spoke to A & S again.. Apparently they see no problem taping into the antenna cable in order to use the FM modulator in line without the connectors... Perhaps yours is different but I can't imagine why this cant be done on yours. I did not talk to Pete but the fellow I spoke to said he did it on his father in-laws 2005 ... It is hard to believe that the antenna cable is different model to model even if the plug is.. Perhaps you are aware of this and have some objection to taping into the cable.. If so please let me know.. Thanks for all the help

c_hunter · March 2005

All the 05 Outback models use the exact same antenna connector -- the VDC is no different. You can buy an adapter or just splice like I did. Any decent installer can do this.

The adapters have been available for several weeks at least. My earlier post with more details was deleted so I can't provide more info than that, unfortunately. Edmunds is not always the best place to discuss mods and solutions because we cannot link to external sites.

Craig

ssminton · March 2005

I had my XM installed originally in July. In January, I was told the part was available so I took the car back to A&S. It is at that point when I was told that "my" part was still not there. In the meantime, I believe my system is working in a "FM Modulation" capacity, which is not really what the Commander was designed to do. When you have your's worked on, let me know if it blocks all FM reception while your Commander unit is powered on. If so, they have developed a new direct connection method. It will be about a month or so before I am home again on a Saturday to have any work done.

Let me know what happens?

Thanks!

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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