Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

c_hunter · August 2005

Chad,

Yeah, that's the one!

Mike is using the phantom button to activate the relays on the aux-in switcher board, but that's an optional extra step (cool for sure, but a lot of extra and potentially risky tinkering). I would probably put in a separate switch/button to flip to the aux-in, or do some sort of auto-sense that will switch when it detects an aux-in signal (my current FM modulator does that). I wish Apple released the pin-out specs for the iPod dock connector, as that probably has it's own trigger that could be used to activate the aux-in. I tried getting the info out of them through my day job, and they would not do it unless I commited to an actual product. They are keeping that as proprietary as possible I guess.

Craig

dragonfly9728 · August 2005

I recently purchased a new 2.5I Legacy sedan with the Limited Pkg. I am very happy with the performance ( only 700 miles so far) of this vehicle. Last nite while driving around the Dayton, Ohio area ( it was very humid) my front window kept fogging up inside. I had it set on outside air and it did not seem to matter if the AC was on or off. The input was set on incoming air at the head & the feet. I had to keep turning on the defroster to clear the windshield. Was wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem?

Larry

kens · August 2005

Larry,

Have you tried cleaning the inside of your windshield? New cars de-gas quite a bit and the result is a film on the inside of the glass. The film gives moisture a place to collect and hence cause film. Try wiping down the inside of your windshield with some glass cleaner and microfiber towels.

Ken

dragonfly9728 · August 2005

Ken

Thanks for your suggestion. I will definetly try this.

Larry

c_hunter · August 2005

Definitely not uncommon to fog up in humid weather. If you are bringing in outside air, this will carry in more vapor. I tend to leave my HVAC system on AUTO, and never see a fogging problem. Ken makes an important point about having clean windows, which may be the biggest factor.

Craig

sweet_subie · August 2005

I had the same problem in my 1993 Legacy & in my 2001 OB & now in 2005 OB. Change the direction of air flow (from within to outside air or vice versa). problem solved.

Subaru is great is some things & pathetic in others. this is one of the pathetic things that they can't fix.

soupboy · August 2005

to replace my 02 WRX Wgn 5MT (sad sigh...). Needed something more "adult" and with more room for our midget. I think I'm getting a decent deal - Blk Ltd Wgn 5MT for $26.1K. Amenities included are short throw shifter, Momo knobs, metal pedz, alarm upgrade, mirror upgrade and armrest ext - total MSRP of about $31.5K.

On the audio front I'm debating whether or not to add the factory sub. I got it on my Rex but it seemed awfully boomy...not tight. I'm also interested in a cleaner iPod solution but will likely just go with the Monster FM/charger dongle until something truely better comes along.

I get to keep my P1s off my WRX for the Legacy - same offset/bolt pattern. If anyone needs a fresh set of GT rims and/or a full APS uppipe and TBE (100% catless) for a WRX (or Legacy GT for the uppipe) let me know.

$750 and one Ecutek reflash later I should have >300hp and >310 of twist to own unsuspecting ricers and krautmobiles! Also needs tint and a shave.

Happy trails

kens · August 2005

Congratulations and welcome! I think you've snapped up one of the very few remaining 5MT 05 GT wagons for a great price.

The factory sub, IMO, is worth it. I have it on my GT wagon and recently had a chance to listen to an OBXT wagon without it. The difference in sound was noticeable and in favor of the factory sub-woofer.

I also recently installed a wired FM Modulator on my stock headunit for my iPod. I had been using a wirless transmitter (Belkin) for some time. The sound quality from the wired unit is much better and has none of the characteristic noise from wirless transmitters. Very well worth it.

Ken

ateixeira · August 2005

Hurry while there is still some selections of 05s, the manual tranny is history on the GT wagons for 06.

-juice

taddison · August 2005

FWIW, to my ears the sub-woofer in my 2005 Outback sounds a lot cleaner than the sub in my friend's 2002 model. I have always thought his sounded muddy, and was pleasantly surprised with the sound when I got my car.

I don't know if the sub itself has changed, but if not then I think they must be feeding it a better signal from the new head unit.

Tim.

krzyss · August 2005

Where are you located?
How much for rims?

Krzys

c_hunter · August 2005

I put one of these in my new Honda today, and it makes life easy. It's very unfortunate that Subaru makes it so difficult to hook up iPods. I got the iceLink for $200 at Best Buy. Took about 20 minutes to hook up (plugs into the back of the Honda radio, in the CD changer jack) and another 20 minutes to rig up a custom mount on the side of the console. It comes with a nice cradle, charges the iPod, gives a clean line-in to the factory radio, and lets you control the iPod from the head unit and steering wheel buttons. Well worth the price. Great for my Honda, but it makes me even more dissapointed in the situation with my OB XT!

Craig

snowbird · August 2005

I have a 05 Outback. When I start my car in the morning, I faintly hear the sound of "running water/liquid" emanating from the engine directly behind the steering wheel, but this disappears after driving for a while. It has happened a few times. I checked underneath the car, but nothing "leaked". What could this be?!!! Snowbird

c_hunter · August 2005

Do you have a moonroof?

Do you park outside overnight?

Have you had any service done recently where they might have done something with the engine coolant??

Craig

snowbird · August 2005

Yes, I have a moonroof but park my car in underground garage. I had service recently. According to the inovice, they apparently had changed the "radiator antifreeze" and "coolant". The car seems to run smoothly otherwise. Any ideas? Thanks. Snowbird.

vonnyvonce · August 2005

Is the A/C on when you start the car. Could be the A/C working/circulating. You might hear it at idle but not when it is cycling while your driving.

snowbird · August 2005

No, the A/C was not on, but something was "circulating", but don't know what?

c_hunter · August 2005

I had service recently. According to the inovice, they apparently had changed the "radiator antifreeze" and "coolant".

Ah, then I am certain you are hearing air in the coolant -- they did not refill it properly, and trapped air in the cooling circuit somewhere. This can potentially be bad for the engine if there is an air pocket that causes local overheating, but most times you just need to purge the air and add coolant.

Right now, you can go check the coolant level (look inside the radiator cap on a *COLD* engine) and top off the radiator with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze/coolant. There should be a procedure listed in the owner's manual for adding coolant as the engine runs (again starting with a COLD engine) which ought to help you get all the air out and fill it completely with coolant.

A final note: Subaru calls for the coolant to be replaced at 30,000 miles. I assume you have not hit that mileage yet on your 05, correct? If so, the dealer may be performing un-needed service on your car. Be sure to consult the maintenance schedule in the owners manual and stick to it. Un-needed service is a waste of money, and can actually lead to problems (as in this case).

Good luck!

Craig

snowbird · August 2005

Thanks, Craig, for that very helpful insight. I will look into it. The reason for replacing the coolant so soon was because the engine had developed a "bent" valve (very rare) after only 10K. The valve was replaced/repaired under warranty. Snowbird

hat · August 2005

I plan on getting an '06 OB2.5i this fall - don't want leather or sunroof or premium fuel, so no interest in any of the higher trim levels of OB.

However ... there are a couple of "nice to have" features on the higher trims. Would anyone hazard a guess as to price/feasibility of replacing the stock equipment with any of the following:

1) Body color door handles (as on all other trim levels).
2) Body color side mirrors (as on Limited) or body color with directionals (as on XT and 6-cyl models).
3) Leather-wrapped steering wheel, shift knob, parking brake lever (as on all other trim levels).
4) Rear seat with armrest (as on other cloth-interior models: '05 XT non-lim, '06 3.0R).

Wasn't sure if this should be in the "modifications" thread, but posted here since this involves using Subie OEM gear rather than after-market equipment.

c_hunter · August 2005

1) a time consuming job (shop manual shows 1.3 hrs per door), and it may not be possible to have the driver's door lock match the ignition key any longer (or doing so would be additional cost). The handles are $55/front or $53/rear (price each), pre-painted. To keep the key matched to the lock, you may be better off having the black handles repainted. This mod may require window removal and reinstallation, which is asking for trouble.

2) easier to do, and the mirrors are pre-painted. The regular mirrors are $180 (each), or $250 (each) with the turn signal.

3) steering wheel: expensive and time consuming, since an airbag is involved (wheel part itself is $327). Shift knob would be easy (it screws on/off) but I did not see part numbers for that. The shop manual only shows a parking brake boot ($100) in beige or black but nothing about the handle/lever.

4) it was difficult to see what was needed for the rear seat (many parts) but it will involve replacing the back cushion/frame and the back cover (these are separate parts). That looked like about $450 in parts. The armrest is another $141. None of the part numbers mention leather or cloth, so it is unclear what is being referred to (they note "black listed, order by aplication").

I think you'd be better off springing for the Ltd model which will also help future resale. Unfortunately, many people (me included) would prefer cloth seats and I could take or leave the moonroof.

As for the gas cost of the turbo/H6, even with today's ridiculous prices, the additional cost of premium is only a couple hundred bucks a year for most drivers. I may have spent $38 to fill my tank with premium last week, but regular would still have cost $34. That extra $4 a week adds up to about $200 per year for me....

Also, note that premium fuel is only required on the turbo models. The H6 models can run on regular, premium is just recommended.

Craig

kubler · August 2005

"Also, note that premium fuel is only required on the turbo models. The H6 models can run on regular, premium is just recommended."

Is there a disadvantage, i.e., change in performance, when using "regular" with the H6 engine?

rsholland · August 2005

Yes, but slight.

Bob

xwesx · August 2005

I agree. I was having a problem with my coolant system losing fluid for a while and I would hear this sound every time I started the car up. Once I fixed the leakage and was able to remove all the air from the system, the sound was gone..... something really is 'trickling' but it is all happening internally.

It is better to get this worked out sooner rather than later (re: possibility for local 'hot spots' as Craig mentioned).

snowbird · August 2005

I took my car in today (because it's still under warranty), explained the problem to the service manager. In fact, I showed him Craig's post (Sorry, Craig, hope you don't mind). He was very helpful - I did not have an appointment. He immediately took the car in to have it checked. About half an hour later, he came back and said that "Everything is as it should be. The coolant level is fine." He asked if I had heating problems and I had to say No - at least not according to the gauge. BTW, what are local "hot spots"? Would they show up on the gauge? He added that what Craig had said was "generally true", but confirmed that my car does not have that problem. So, I guess I have no choice but wait and see......Also, I did not hear the sound this morning. Snowbird

xwesx · August 2005

If an air pocket gets trapped in the engine and does not allow fluid to cycle through that point, the metal around the air pocket will heat up more than the metal against which fluid is contacting. This results in uneven block temperatures and stress the metal.

Just a note regarding what the service manager was asking: I did not have problems with my heater either. Everything worked fine, but there WAS air in the system (as could easily be evidenced by the fact that the fluid in my radiator was about 1" below the fill cap at all times). The trickle sound I would hear was, I think, fluid pouring into the cabin heater's radiator after the air settled into it overnight. I cannot say for sure whether any damage was done because of uneven heating, but I could list off all the problems I had with it concurrently and have had since then!

(Not that they would necessarly be directly related)

samiam_68 · August 2005

Park your car on an up-hill. Let the engine cool off for a couple of hours. Open the radiator cap. Idle the engine for about 10-15 minutes until fully warm. Turn off engine. Top off radiator and fill the recovery tank to the full hot line. Close the cap. This should eliminate any trapped air.

c_hunter · August 2005

When you use regular gas in the H6, the timing is retarded slightly. You lose a littple bit of power throughout the RPM range (probably less than 10HP), and it takes a a bit of the zip out of the engine. I don't have exact numbers for the new 250HP H6, but the old one would drop the peak HP from 212 down to 208 with regular fuel.

CRaig

c_hunter · August 2005

The other thing I forgot to mention, you can turn on the heater which may help get an air bubble out.

If the noise has gone away, maybe the air has worked out. Keep an eye on it for a few days, and re-check the coolant level at some point.

Craig

snowbird · August 2005

Thank you all for your help. I will watch it for a few days. This is a wonderful forum - especially for someone who doesn't know much about car mechanics, like me.

nmgridl · August 2005

Sorry if this is a duplicate. I thought I posted it yeserday, but don't see it today.

I'm getting confused about whether the 2006 Legacy 2.5i, Limited, or Spec Ed will have AVLS and \ or AVCS. The sites I've looked at show that AVLS is only available on the OB, and the AVCS is only availbable on the GT & OB. But I'm sure I previously read that all 2006 Legacy's were going to AVLS. Now I'm not so sure, and I can't find it on the web. If I went non-GT, I would need that extra HP.

kmclean · August 2005

I have a question, Craig,

Does turning the heater "on" actually change the [hot] coolant flow through the heater hoses and core? I know it used the be that way in the old days (my 1966 Mustang operates this way - the temperature lever actually opens a valve that allows coolant to flow through the heater core), but I thought that modern heaters merely changed the airflow over the hot core when "heat" is selected - and routes it elsewhere when the system isn't in the heat mode. Not so in the Outback?

Ken in Seattle

c_hunter · August 2005

Good question Ken -- I was under the assumption that all cars still had a valve to route coolant through the heater core, but you may be correct. I'll poke around and look next time I am fidgeting with the car...

Craig

c_hunter · August 2005

According to Subaru's press release (media.subaru.com):

"New for 2006, all 2.5-liter naturally aspirated four-cylinder Subaru Boxer engines in 2006 Legacy and Outback 2.5i and 2.5i Limited models offer more performance for 2006. The 2.5-liter engines feature a new i-Active Valve Lift system that boosts horsepower to 175 from 168 previously. The new system also increases peak torque to 169 lb.-ft., up from 166 lb.-ft. and improves vehicle drivability. "

Craig

joeb24 · August 2005

When you say "regular" gas, I assume you mean 87 octane? I have used 89 octane, but not 87. So, will a regular diet of 87 octane harm the engine?

c_hunter · August 2005

It should be OK, according to Subaru. That said, my wife put in 87 on my previous Outback (by mistake), and I noticed right away -- engine felt less smooth than when I normally ran on premium. For the extra $200 a year, I see no reason not to run premium!

Craig

snowbird · August 2005

Apart from regularly checking the coolant level and carefully listening for the "trickling" sound after starting the engine in the morning, what else (signs/warnings) should I be looking for if indeed air is still trapped in the system? As of now, no sound can be detected and the coolant level is good. Unless there's new evidence indicating air pockets, I can't go back to the dealer and tell him to check again! (He had already checked and told me I don't have this problem). But at the same time I want to clear this up sooner rather than later before potential damage is done to the engine. Any suggestions? Snowbird

c_hunter · August 2005

The gurgling sound would be the best indicator, as well as the coolant level. You can sure try parking on an uphill and venting the system as samiam suggested just to be sure. From there, just check the coolant level every couple days and listen for the sound. If it looks good, then you're probably OK and can resume normal behavior!

By the way, what were the symptoms of your bent valve? Did it just happen out of the blue?

Craig

just_phil · August 2005

Ok, I am off the fence! What pushed me was Subaru's decision to not put 5MT in GT wagons in 2006. This morning I took delivery of a satin white pearl Legacy GT LTD wagon with a 5-speed manual transmission and black interior. I've been a lurker here for over a year, ever since I learned of Subaru's plans to freshen the lineup. Glad I've stuck around, since I learned a lot about these cars from nice folks here and pretty much had my mind all made up before I started shopping. Thanks to all, and I'll keep lurking :-)

rsholland · August 2005

Hey Phil! Congrats on the new ride! I suspect the lack of a 5-speed manual '06 L-GT wagon has pushed a number of folks like you off the fence.

Don't lurkparticipate! We look forward to hearing about your experiences with the new car!

Bob

c_hunter · August 2005

Sweet!! That is an awesome color combo. I can see how a lot of folks would be scrambling for the remaining 5-spd wagons. You picked up a great vehicle.

I'm kind of surprised that Subaru dropped the cloth-seat GT model -- that had been attracting a lot of potential WRX buyers into the Legacy GT (which was a better car for the dough). And now they have leather-lined WRX models. Definitely some overlap, and perhaps that is what killed off the cloth GT.

Craig

snowbird · August 2005

Craig.... There's no more sound this morning. So, hopefully, the problem has gone away. As to the bent valve, this happened shortly after Subaru's March "recall" to have the sportmatic software upgraded (I am not saying it was related - I just don't know). Anyway, after completing the upgrade, the Service Manager (same guy) and I took a test drive and noticed that when the engine was idle, like parked at traffic lights, the engine started having mild stuttering, which it did not have before. Well, from then on, the dealer kept the car for 10 days to fix the problem - all under warranty. At the time, I was very disappointed because I had heard so many good things about Subaru and my car had barely 10 K on, but I must say that their service has been excellent once you 've brought the problem to their attention. Do you think, Craig, that my recent coolant problem is related to the bent valve? Thanks. Snowbird

mayberryguy · August 2005

I'm kind of surprised that Subaru dropped the cloth-seat GT model

This was the lowest running Legacy produced last year. Apparently there wasn't enough sales to keep it afloat. If my math and memory are correct, I think it barely beat out the Baja and was behind the Outback Sedan in numbers produced.

kens · August 2005

Interesting. I think when browsing through an "enthusiast" site, you often get a non representative sampling of actual sales. I think the same is true with the GT Ltd wagon with 5MT as well.

Ken

c_hunter · August 2005

Hmm, I just read your posts from back in May. I find it really odd that the car was fine (including a major road trip) until the dealer did the sportshift reflash. Did the stuttering literally appear right after they did the reflash? If that was the case, I would have suspected an ECU glitch. I can't imagine how a bent valve condition would not exist before a service and then appear afterwards....

Regarding the coolant, I would think that air got in when they did the engine servicing to fix the bent valve. It is certainly not uncommon to introduce air pockets when an engine is torn down for a major repair. Heck, I have seen them happen from just simple maintenance! So I wouldn't worry about there being a connection, other than the fix for one problem introduced a minor side effect that has probably worked its way out of the system.

I am still puzzled about the bent valve. I would think something fairly catastrophic would have to happen for that to occur. How long did it take them to do the reflash??

Craig

PS - don't let my questions scare you, I am just looking for details to make sense out of it all..... if your car drives OK now, that's a good sign!

snowbird · August 2005

Yes, the stuttering appeared right after the reflash......more accurately, during the road test immediately after the reflash. My own suspicion (this is pure conjecture) is that the necessary reprogramming had not been done 100% correctly and when I vigorously accelerated in the sports mode during the test, it may have blown or bent one of the exhaust valves. (In fact, the invoice mentioned replacement of 2 exhaust valves). May be I am not making any sense?! The car is now driving fine. I also think that the coolant problem may be gone. The actual reflash took about 45 minutes. Thanks again for your insight and others. Snowbird

hat · August 2005

Craig,

Thanks for your extensive research into my shopping list! For me, the Ltd is just not an option, as I find leather upholstery uncomfortable, and find the headroom to be inadequate with moonroof.

The only upgrade that seems feasible involves some of the leather trim pieces. Rather than replacing the wheel, it probably makes sense to get one of the aftermarket leather wraps. The shift knob should be trivial; I did this years ago for my '97 OBW - replaced the vinyl knob with the leather version from the Ltd, and have been using the original one as a paperweight!

lfdal · August 2005

I share your puzzlement - usually the result of an interferece condition as in "oops I misaligned the timing belt". Can't imagine a reflash causing it. Unless it was just bad.

In the old days I had a push rod or two bend, but that was 32 years ago........

ecotrklvr · August 2005

I can't see how a valve could be bent by anything less than a piston hitting it.

Now, I CAN see how a valve (and/or valve seat) could get burned in spirited driving, especially with an air pocket in the coolant. Any chance the man said "burned" or "burnt", not "bent"?

Just my 2 cents.

snowbird · August 2005

The valve was "bent", not burnt. Very rare, I was told. Anyway, the car seems to be running well for now - and the engine is still under warranty for a few more years. So, hopefully, things will work out OK.

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles