Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

cptplt · January 2006

they don't say if there were wagons or sedans. Given even the Saab92 did well which is a Impreza wagon, I wonder if it has to do with the seats and headrests?

rsholland · January 2006

I bet it has to do with the driver's headrests. The WRX (which I have) has the headrest built in with the seat. The Impreza (which my son has) has a typical separate headrest.

On the WRX, your head has to move much further back in order to contact the headrest; not so with the regular Impreza. My guess is the chance of a whiplash injury is much greater with the WRX, because of its design, than with the Impreza.

I read something about this a while back, but I don't remember where. I do remember, however, that the WRX was criticized because of this headrest design though.

Bob

ejj · January 2006

They still sell Accord and Camry wagons, but they are called the Pilot and Highlander... People are willing to pay more for these vehicles--even if they cost little more than a wagon to make. I've been wondering for years when the SUV cachet is going to wear off.

I just had a kid, as did a co-worker. They ran out and bought a Civic wagon (CRV) and asked me when I would replace our Outback with an SUV! Umm...Why?

qbrozen · January 2006

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I mean, I believe the SUV equivalents would still sell more, unfortunately. But, as a former Pilot owner, I feel the need to point out that I had no choice of an Accord Wagon from the dealer.

Also, I wouldn't say the SUVs are significantly more. Have you seen the prices of Accords lately? They are approaching $30k. Pilots are not a whole heck of a lot more, plus you get AWD and a 3rd row. Heck, just for the gas savings, I would LOVE to have a 3-row Accord Wagon. I wouldn't even need to look at anything else.

ateixeira · January 2006

kat95: they offer the wagon for folks that need a lot of cargo room, as a bonus those seats fold. Why not get a wagon? Subaru has always done wagons better, any how.

An interesting case is the Mazda6 - the i and s models have a folding rear seat, but the MazdaSpeed6 does not - they wanted to increase rigidity.

The Accord wagon looks good also, though the Legacy wagon is the cleanest, i.e. it looks like it was designed to be a wagon, not tacked on.

Accord wagon is actually the CR-V, even has the same 2.4l engine basically.

Camry wagon is indeed the Highlander. The RAV4 used to be based on a more narrow JDM Camry platform.

-juice

c_hunter · January 2006

Except that the CR-V is based on the Civic platform! As is the upcoming Acura RDX.

Craig

ateixeira · January 2006

Yeah, a combo of the two. The engine/tranny are from the Accord parts bin.

-juice

bobny11580 · January 2006

I just noticed the missing Subaru's Sinking Fortunes Board. Does that mean we have sufficiently beat that topic to death? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

I hope to continue to read your well written posts through 2006. It is always a pleasure.

Bob from Long Island

PS I felt like a kid when my 4 new Bridgestone Blizzaks on alloy wheels arrived from Tirerack an hour ago. Can't wait to mount them on my 2005 OB XT wagon tomorrow. Then to find some snow.

ejj · January 2006

I cant blame anyone for buying the Pilot or CRV--they are nice rigs. I cant blame Honda for making them--I just have always loved the everyday livibility of the Wagon--particularly my Outback. ('96 & '06)

Before that I had the old Civic AWD wagon. A great little car for what it was.

cptplt · January 2006

what year is your WRX? my 02 has "seperate" ones.

rsholland · January 2006

'06.

Bob

clarkkent · January 2006

If the CR-V is actually an Accord Wagon, then the Accord is the tinnest, cheapest car in the world!!

I just got rid of a CR-V. The metal is thinner than a Civic and that is built with metal about as thick as a beer can.

I just bought the CR-V for resale, but drove it 1000 and it had no, power, gas milage, or safety.

Honestly, If you want a good 7 passanger AWD wagon get a Volvo XC. 10 times safer than a CRV better gas milage and 20 times better power!

clarkkent · January 2006

The CR-V is about 1/25 of what an Accord is! The CR-V's metal is about as thick as a beer can. I had one I got for resale. I drove it 1000 miles. No problems, but, No power, no gas milage, no safety at all. It's a real death trap!

If you want a good AWD 7 passanger car get a Volvo XC. Use you can get a good 2003 for what you would pay for a new CR-V and believe me a 2003 Volvo XC with 50,000 miles on it is 10 times better than a new CR-V!

If you think the CR-V is an Accord Wagon, you must not think much of the Accord.

If you love your kids, don't ever get a Honda CR-V.
That would be CHILD ABUSE!

qbrozen · January 2006

Honestly, If you want a good 7 passanger AWD wagon get a Volvo XC. 10 times safer than a CRV better gas milage and 20 times better power!

Folks just aren't crossshopping a $40k wagon to a $20k compact SUV (by the way, the XC wagon is rated at 19/26 mpg vs the CRV's 22/27). But, aside from the price difference, I'm not sure why this comparison is being made on a Subie board.

clarkkent · January 2006

First of all, the actual price for a good Volvo XC is about $32,000 in the real world. The Honda CR-V in the real world is about $25,000, so your only $7,000 apart.

There is NO, I repeat, NO comparison between a Honda CR-V and a Volvo XC. The comparison would be the same between a T Bone Stake and a Hot Dog! (maybe a better example would be a Cabin Curiser VS. an Aluminum Canoe)

I agree the $7,000 is a big difference. But what I was comparing was a USED $25,000 Volvo VS. a NEW $25,000 CR-V

A ONE OR TWO YEAR OLD VOLVO XC IS 10 TIMES THE CAR A NEW CR-V IS OR EVER WILL BE!

I drove a CR-V for 1000 miles. I got 20 in town milage and 24 HW milage. (400) non stop highway miles with a full tank at 75 mph, got 24 mpg! (and I felt like I was in a tin can. When a truck passed you, the CR-V would be blown all over the road. A XC is as solid as a rock if a semi. passes.)

I own a 2001 XC that gets 28 mpg at 75 on REG. fuel. It gets no better on Prem. I get 21 to 22 in town milage.

AND BELIVE ME I WOULD RATHER GET IN AN ACCIDENT IN MY VOLVO WITH ANYTHING RATHER THAN IN A CR-V!

At least if I get hit by a semi, they would be able to idenify the bodies. If you were in a CR-V they wouldn't be able to find enough left to put in a tea cup!

AND, if anyone was hit by a VW BUG the folks in the XC would be just fine, and if their friends in a CR-V were hit by that same VW BUG as it bounced off the Volvo, the occupants of the Volvo would be attending the funerals of their friends in the CR-V! (a real death trap)

One final note. If you were to choose between the two cars new, isn't your life and the life of your wife and kids worth $7,000? Or Just getting a year old car (XC) would save your family at the same costs, and you would have a much better vehicle.

I almost forgot to mention, the CR-V is VERY prone to rolling over if you panic turn. It sits very high for such a light weight. The Volvo is very low, (You really know that when the semi. tires are higher than your side windows!) Because the Volvo XC is a wagon and low to the ground it is very good in a panic turn. It really hugs the road. You could probably get it to turn over, but not the same way a CR-V or other SUVs would.

I vote for the Volvo, but to each his own. And, as you can see, I prejudice and I love my family! (I think they are worth much more than $,7000!)

Now if I could only figure why my wife wants me to drive a CR-V?

Happy new year!

PS Nothing personal against the CR-V or their drivers.
Just my 2 cents.

bobny11580 · January 2006

Buy a Volvo XC if you want to become intimately involved with Volvo's service department. I guarantee you will be eating their bagels regularly as they scramble to repair each and every electical system. Expect a monthly visit at least with an occasional use of their roadside assistance service. The happiest day will be when the 36 months on your lease expire.

Get a Subara and you won't get any bagels at the service dept when you change the oil occasionally.

clarkkent · January 2006

I have had two small problems with my Volvo. Ele Keys locks (fixed itself) and two engine check lights, (cost $400 each time to fix.) Not too bad for 78,000 miles.

I know some have had lots of trouble, but so have some Subi, drives.

I HAVE ONLY ONE PROBLEM WITH SUBIES. I HAVE HAD 5 OF THEM. I ALSO HAVE 5 KIDS WHO WENT TO COLLEGE AT DIFFERENT TIMES. EACH ONE (TOOK) STOLE A SUBIE WHEN THEY LEFT!

I just couldn't see one of my sons, throwing up in the Volvo after a college party, with the Subie, they just clear it up and keep going! One of the subies now has 287,000 and is carting around two grandkids. But their mother's car #1 is a Volvo XC! The Subie is her college car and still being used as their 2 car!

I can't think of a better car for a young person in college than a Subie.!

qbrozen · January 2006

well, if you want to compare a top-of-the-line non-discounted CRV to a stripper discounted Volvo, then go ahead and make your point. Best I can do to compare is look at carsdirect, in which case I get $34,700 for a base XC70 and $24,9 for the most expensive CRV available. Still $10k difference.

But, whatever, I'm on a subie board, and not buying either a CRV or XC70. My S70 is still going strong and I'm happy with it.

clarkkent · January 2006

All I know is that I bought my XC used from the original owner who paid $32,187.00+tax for it and it has ever option except the GPS Nav. Everything. Wood, leather, winter package, Heated seats, Sun roof, CD,Prem. sound, etc. Everything.

My daughter just bought her XC NEW 2005 for 31,652.00+tax and they flew her and her husband to Sweden to drive it around then shipped it back to Boston for them. It also has everything.

I find that when you go to the dealer and start talking (at the end of the month) they usually start dealing.

Those are the only two I know of personally, but I have heard that the range, $32, $33, for a fully loaded XC.

But it is a Subi forum and I agree the Subi is a great car.

May I say that the Subi is also 10 to 20 times better than the Honda CR-V?

Actually almost all the smaller suvs are better than the CR-V. I have driven many of them and the CR-V is the tinnest one of all. They may all have about the same specs. but the CR-V is by far the lightest and tinnest one of all. ( a real death trap in my opinion.) The metal reminds me of the chevy Metro, it's so thin.
Enough said. Go Subaru! (possible Volvo XC too?)

krzyss · January 2006

Have you been pinned under or bitten or hit by Honda CR-V recently?
It seems that you have an axe to grind.

Krzys

rob_m · January 2006

ateixeira · January 2006

You love your Subies, had a great experience. That's cool, let's leave it at that.

-juice

kens · January 2006

+1

Ken

kens · January 2006

Wow, the anti-Spyponder! :-D

Ken

ateixeira · January 2006

It's just that the discussion belongs in another thread. What I mentioned is the part that was relevant to this topic.

-juice

clarkkent · January 2006

No ax to grind against the CR-V. I just drove one for 1000 miles and could not believe how anyone would have one. No power, the doors sounded like beer cans when closed. There was a real tinny sound. Poor gas milage for such a small car. It's just not a car I'd have.

That being said, if you like the CR-V that's great. Not everone likes Subarus either.

Last statement on the CR-V.

Case closed.

erics6 · January 2006

Camry was ugly! I liked the last generation of Accord and Civic wagon better than the 95-99 Subaru. CR-V replaced it, but was top heavy and ungainly. Rav4 and Highlander replaced the Camry wagon and Corolla wagon all-trac.

A newer Real-time AWD Civc wagon or Accord or a Camry AWD wagon would have been nice replacement, but Honda and Toyota knew the SUV was what sold.

Glad Subaru stuck with it!

kens · January 2006

Oh no, my comment wasn't directed to your post, but rather a refernce to a topic and characters long gone. Now that I think about it, the anti-Hondabro would have been more on-the-nose. But I digress... ;-)

Ken

ateixeira · January 2006

Now you're spot-on. Spyponder was a little biased, but at least fair. Hondabro was quite the character, eclipsed only the the Hung-and-Tung show in the Hyundai threads.

I laughed hysterically when Hondabro bought a Lexus.

-juice

kmclean · January 2006

My daughter is considering buying a new Forester 2.5X. She wants the manny tranny but not the turbo, so we think the base model with the premium package (lots of major goodies) makes the most sense. The only item that made me balk a bit was that the automatic climate control is part of the package. There have been lots of [mostly] negative comments about that system in the new OBs in this discussion - I assume that it's the same system that's found in the upgraded Forester. Have there been similar complaints/problems from the Forester crowd? When I have time I'll go dig through that discussion, but I was wondering if you had a Q&D opinion since you probably peruse that discussion regularly.

Thanks!

Ken in (WAY rainy) Seattle

c_hunter · January 2006

Well, you can totally override the auto climate control and run it as a manual system with a slightly complicated interface if so desired, so I wouldn't let it break the deal.

Personally, I had no complaints about the auto system in our 03 Forester XS, but then again, I had been using an auto system for several years already in my LLB Outback, and had become accustomed to it. Similarly, I think the auto system in my 05 OB XT works all right most of the time, while others hate it with a passion. At the very least, opinions are varied on the topic. Who knows, your daughter might be just fine with it. If it helps any, I posted a sticky on how the system works at legacygt dot com. This should eliminate most of the confusion about the system (though I make no attempt to reconcile what some people feel are hardware flaws). Unfortunately, Subaru documentation on auto climate control is kind of poor in the owners manuals.

Craig

zman3 · January 2006

I am not a huge fan of the auto temp in my 06 OB. I have never really liked any auto temp controls. I find absolutely nothing wrong with it in manual mode. I think it is like any other system. I would not let that be a deal breaker.

Karl

zman3 · January 2006

The steering wheel on my 06 OB makes a creaking sound when turning to the right. It sounds like it is coming from the column, and not the steering rack or pump.

I don't feel like taking the car to the dealer just yet. I'd like to let things pile up a bit. Anyone heard of this issue and know of a fix?

Thanks.

Karl

ateixeira · January 2006

I prefer manual, but I'm a control freak.

The OCD among us get around it anyway, here's a link:

http://www.geocities.com/samiam_68/SubaruCCS/SSC_Fix.htm

I say go for it if she likes it otherwise.

-juice

kens · January 2006

I personally have not had any issues with the Auto Climate system in my 05 Legacy GT. Compared to the full manual system I used to have in my 98 Forester, I find the Auto Climate results in me having to fiddle with the controls a lot less -- exactly what I wanted. There are a few minor quirks, but 99% of the time I just leave it on all the time and make adjustments to just the temp dial as necessary.

I believe some of the negative comments about the ACC system come from a very wide range of expectations about how an ACC system should behave. Some people expect a set it and forget it system. Since this is my first ACC equipped car, I had no previous experience and was pleasantly surprised. Apparently, there are other systems available that provide better control.

Ken

goneskiian · January 2006

Happy New Year to all you regulars! I see everyone is still present and accounted for. Glad to hear you are still enjoying your wagon Ken and Rob. I'm still really enjoying my LGT Wagon as well. I think it's one of the sharpest looking cars out there (yes I'm biased) and I thoroughly enjoy driving it.

I've only got a couple small complaints. The first I was aware of when I bought the car but I was hoping would have been settled by now...no ipod integration (wasn't an issue at first as I didn't have an ipod). No, I don't want to use the FM transmitter.

The other is a cooling fan that refuses to shut off. I'm talking about the driver's side radiator fan. I admit that I don't know which fan is supposed to do what but there are 2 fans in front of the radiator. At first (I started to notice it a little less than a year or so ago) it ran intermittenly but more than it did when it was new and it got progressively worse (meaning it would run more and more). I tried isolating it by turning the climate control (and hence the AC) on and off, noting the temperature outside, etc. Recently though it has progressed to running ALL the time (that I can tell). It comes on when I start the car (Auto climate control on OR off) and never shuts off. I guess it could shut off when I'm at highway speed as I can't hear it over the wind and tire noise but it runs the rest of the time.

I had the service dept. tell me at first that it was operating normally. Finally they agreed to test it after I reported it running more and more over the next few oil changes. They found it was operating within spec.

I've read about others having this issue over on the the LegacyGT forums but wanted to check here as well. I apologize if this has been discussed already but I did a search in a couple of the forums here using the key words "cooling fan" but it didn't turn up anything.

Hope everyone has had a great '05 and hope you all have a fantastic '06!

Cheers!
-Ian

kens · January 2006

Ian,

Good to hear from you. You were one of the first 2005 GT owners!

There is a work-around to the iPod integration. Over at legacygt dot com, checkout a thread on the "jazzy board". Some fellow has created a small board that you install in your headunit to kludge a line-in. You do need to take apart your center console and open up the headunit, but it's not a very difficult process. Both Craig and I have them installed and I love it. The only catch is that you need to play a blank CD.

Regarding the cooling fan issue, there is a thread and a solution, I believe. Check out thread number 10568 over at the same website, or do a search on the terms "cooling fan stuck". It should be the 1st or second hit on the search results. It appears that dealers have been replacing the ECU to fix this problem. FWIW, I don't seem to have this problem.

Ken

c_hunter · January 2006

How new is the car? Could be the clockspring assembly (which is a big wire on a spool basically) is a bit "new" and stiff. It will probably work itself out over time. As long as you don't feel resistance or hear disconcerting "breaking" noises, it's probably just fine.

If you happen to hear scratchy noises that are worse in cold weather, that's a sign some grease is needed somewhere.

Craig

clarkkent · January 2006

I agree. Now that the gas us way up and the SUVs are not selling, I hope Toyota and Honda will look at an AWD wagon again. I still love the Subie and (big brother?) Volvo XC, but competition keeps everyone trying to get better and better!

tsy · January 2006

Happy New Year Ian! Have you done much skiian? At least we have a lot of snow this year! I've only gone once though. Plan on going again in a few weeks. With all this rain we're having today, hopefully they'll be even more snow!

Hope you're having a good '06!

tom

zman3 · January 2006

The car only has 1600 miles on it, but it did not do it until the last few hundered miles. I'll give it a while but then I may just take it in and deal with the inconvenience.

Karl

xwesx · January 2006

I'm glad you folks are getting snow, but it sure has not hit us here in Fairbanks. We've received about 8 inches total over the course of the winter thus far. Terribly little for this late in the season.

goneskiian · January 2006

Ken - Thanks for the pointer to the lgt site thread. I've been keeping up there but thought I'd check over here to see if anyone other than that crew has had issues. Glad to hear you're not. Thanks also for that pointer to jazzy's aux in solution. I'll check that out.

Yes, I was one of the first GT owners. The first wagon owner over on that other site. I've only had a few early adopter issues. I think the most hillarious one has been the mis-matched door panels. I've got the ltd with the leather interior but somehow went 4 months with 2 cloth door inserts! LOL!

Are you going to watch any of the Tour of California this Feb? Should be a good chance to catch some great bike racing. Especially since the SF GP is no longer.

Tom - Hey there neighbor! Yes, I've been up skiing once this winter as well and paid for it. I tore a muscle sheath in my right wrist with a funky pole plant and slammed my left big toe so hard the nail fell off. I'm just getting over those and will likely head up when we get some more snow (to cover up all the bear spots this last round of rain made).

xwesx - Sorry to hear this white stuff is skipping you folks in AK.

Sorry for the semi OT post folks! Now, back to your regularly scheduled Subaru programming...

Cheers!
-Ian

bobny11580 · January 2006

I've had no problems with my 05 OB XT's auto climate system. I've set it on 70 degrees for both driver and passenger and it's fine. My 2002 Audi A4 is another story. Someone suggested that Audi should send its engineers to Japan to learn how to make auto climate systems. I agree.

Have put 100 miles on my new Blizzaks. They are as quiet as my Michelin Pilot Sports believe it or not. I am being very careful during the breakin (about first 300 miles). The alloy wheels with the Tirerack package look as good as the original equipment alloys. And of course, Long Island weather is staying very mild, high thirties, low forties. We will not have winter here on account of me, again. I did this back in the late nineties with a set of Blizzaks for my wife's car. Produced three mild winters.

tsy · January 2006

Ian- Ouch! Yeah, my days of aggressive skiing/snowboarding are over. I look like a grandpa when I ski now. I'm terrified of messing up my knees more than they already are. I'm going up to Baker this weekend but we're going snowshoeing, not skiing. Just as well, it's supposed to rain.

Are you going to ride in that Tour? I've given up aggressive riding too. I guess I am really getting old! (No offense to other old people here

)

xwesx- Wow, I thought you'd be up to your ears in snow by now. I guess all this global warming stuff is real? Pretty soon you'll be sunbathing in December, huh?

tom

edit: Sorry, I didn't realize where I was posting this. Way OT!

goneskiian · January 2006

Hey Tom, I'll reply over in Meet the Members.

-Ian

fj60 · January 2006

I too had the problem and my local dealer fixed it and wrote the following on my invoice: "called tech line says to pull mainfan relay and back pro pin B-24 on ECM verified that there is a constant ant ground present fix is to replace ecm faulty and main fan relay assembly." Good luck!

FJ60

goneskiian · January 2006

Thanks FJ60!

I hope I can get them to call the techline this time. The last couple times I was in there I couldn't get them to make the call. They just keep telling me they hadn't seen a TSB and that they'd talk to the regional Subaru rep the next time he was in. When I made my appointment for next Monday I asked them if they would call before I got there but they gave me this line about how they had to have the vehicle present and a work order in hand (or something like that). Anyway...

Thanks again!
-Ian

thenorthface · January 2006

Hi, happy with my new -06 Outback, BUT when i ride in bumps the hatch seem to knock on the right side of the car where the back lights are and it makes a terrible noise.

Is it possible to adjust the hatch or what can i do?

:confuse:

kens · January 2006

Sounds like the hatch is either misaligned or there could be a problem with the locking mechanism. With the hatch closed, try pulling up on it from the outside -- is it secured firmly? On the inside of the hatch, there should be two rubber bumpers -- are they there and are they making contact with the body?

Something like this, your dealer should be able to handle for you.

Ken

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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