Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

kens · June 2006

Colin,

Up front because in hard cornering you would spin the inside wheel? And is that in addition to or in place of the rear LSD?

Ken

locke2c · June 2006

yes, you will spin the inside front wheel when cornering at the limit in the dry or even moderately aggressive on damp or loose surfaces.

conversely, very little that you can do besides serious off-roading would spin one of the rear wheels. and even if you were doing that, a torsen is a poor choice-- it should be a clutch-type mechanical LSD or at least a viscous coupler.

~Colin

ateixeira · June 2006

There are combinations where you can get only one of those.

NAV for instance. It comes with auto but that's not a 6 speed. :P

And there are LSDs, too, just not Torsens.

Not many AWD/RWD sporty sedans are a-la-carte like you want. Maybe check out a Speed6? Everything else is on the high end of the price spectrum.

-juice

outbike1 · June 2006

Hello all -

Been a while since I posted (years, in fact). I used to own a 1996 OB wagon - best car I ever owned, miss it terribly. However she blew her head gasket at 152K and I had to part with her :-( (first serious problem I ever had, too bad it was a fatal blow . . .) So, about 5 weeks ago, I replaced it with a brand new 2006 OB 2.5i wagon. Overall, pretty nice car. When I have a bit more time, I want to share more of my thoughts on my purchase. But for now, I was hoping that you all might be able to help me with two issues that are driving me NUTS!

1) I have a buzz that is emitted from the left front dash, somewhere behind the instrument cluster near the A-pillar. Occurs upon initial acceleratation in the 1.5-2.5K RPM range. Sounds like a loose plastic piece buzzing - extremely annoying and irrating (esp in new car with only 2.5K on the odometer). Any ideas as to what this may be???

2) I get what sounds like an air leak above 45mph from the right A-pillar area. Sounds as if the door isn't sealing properly. It seems to come from the area just behind the A -pillar near the side rear-view mirror (where the tweeter speakers used to be mounted in previous generation OBs) I have tried to locate a possible leak/gap in the rubber that surrounds the door and window, but to no avail. I am about to go nuts if I can't find where this air rush/leak is coming from. Anyone else experiencing anything similar?

Any help y'all have would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,
Outbike

raybear · June 2006

Have the dealer track down the problems.

kens · June 2006

I have a guess to #1, but it could be the fuel lines vibrating behind the firewall. The fuel lines go through the firewall right behind the instrument cluster. I've heard of other Legacy owners have this problem, but I thought it was isolated to just 05 turbo models.

As for #2, did you see if the side mirror gusset is intact? Even a small split in the gusset can cause wind noise.

In both cases, have the dealer document your concerns (so it's on record) and check them out.

Ken

frankw · June 2006

Just past 30K miles I replaced the original Bridgestone Potenza RE92a tires on my 2005 OBXT with Bridgestone Turanza LS-V tires. The tire dealer says I should keep 40 psi in them. He says Subaru only cares about a soft ride whereas he cares about tire wear. The Subaru service advisor says he is wrong and that I should do what the owners manual says (32 front, 30 rear). I can't see that either has incentives to tell me to do the wrong thing. Any opinions?

-Frank

ateixeira · June 2006

40psi is pretty hard, your ride will suffer. Try something in the middle, maybe 35psi or so.

-juice

krzyss · June 2006

"He says Subaru only cares about a soft ride whereas he cares about tire wear."

Not after Ford Explorer/Firestone fiasco.
To paraphrase
He cares about tire wear but not about driver.

Use your car placard and start from there. I think the only way is up from placard to improve handling.

Krzys

cptplt · June 2006

better 5 over than 2 under!
40psi seems excessive, I've been running 35 for years on my Subes (Legacys and WRX) and it seems to be fine comfort wise. it won't be a problem for your Turanza LSVs but some lower speed tires have a max pressure of 35 and on some vehicles like my wife's minivan, the recommended pressure is the same as the max for the tire which makes me quite uncomfortable!

frankw · June 2006

Thanks juice, Krzys and cptplt. I now have 34 front and 32 rear. The ride seems fine to me.

-Frank

tsy · June 2006

If I feel particularly sporting I will pump up my tires, but otherwise Subaru's recommended tire pressures are just fine.

They do make tires well. I remember checking my dad's tires once and they were at 80psi! Of course, he ended up replacing them but at least they didn't blow off!

tom

ateixeira · June 2006

I think Ford was using 26psi, something like that. Sounds crazy-low to me.

-juice

bat1161 · June 2006

With the TPMS on the H6, if your tires were at 26psi, the warning light would be on. On the other hand, I had my tires at 40psi during my trip last month and the idiot light came on anyway. Gave a code my dealer never saw :confuse: .

That said I keep my tires at 35psi now. I think it helped with the gas mileage by increasing the pressure a bit.

Mark

kyfdx · June 2006

Doesn't the TPMS work off differences in the speed of rotation?

I'm guessing that if all of your tires had the same inflation pressure, it wouldn't matter what pressure that was...

CR-Vs also had a 26 PSI recommendation for certain models..

larrycrowell · June 2006

I have a 2005 OBXT, with the RE92A tires. At about 15K I noticed that the tires were wearing more at the outside than the middle. To compensate, I upped the pressures to 34 front and 32 rear. I think Subaru's recommendation is a bit too low.

bat1161 · June 2006

According to the Spring2005 Drive magazine,

"The wheels air-pressure sensor/transmitter assemblies transmit individual air-pressure levels via radio signal to the receiver/control unit."

To me that seems to imply that each wheel's sensor measures the air pressure in that tire, then transmits the data to the main reciver unit which notifies you if the pressure goes to 26-27PSI.

Mark

kyfdx · June 2006

Wow... that is pretty advanced... Most systems just use the ABS/stability control hardware to detect differences in rotation speed..

locke2c · June 2006

whaa? where are you reading that?

I don't think this is right. the earliest systems used in-wheel sensors that were very expensive. the on-valve system is cheaper and much more easily ported to new wheels & tires.

most cars do not have stability management, and even if they did you have to have a pretty significant pressure difference to notice a rotational speed difference because the tire would have to be significantly deformed. at 26psi compared to a nominal pressure of 32psi is difficult to notice with casual observation and I doubt the rotation speed would be all that different. I'm not even going to attempt the physics on it because I'm pretty rusty, but I am sure that the ideal gas law doesn't apply when the sidewall of the tire is holding up some of the vehicle's weight. a passenger car is most definitely not held up by air pressure alone. a runflat tire is an extreme example of this as it suffers little deflection from low air pressure, but modern summer tires are very rigid as well.

~Colin

kyfdx · June 2006

ABS is on almost every car now.... And, it uses that rotational speed difference to detect impending lock-up.. The CR-V uses the same sensors to detect wheel slippage to activate the AWD system..

But, now that you mention run-flats.. I'm sure they don't work off of that system..

kyfdx · June 2006

It looks like I am seriously behind the times (as usual)... The phase-in of the new standards has to be complete by 10/31/06...

But, I found this little nugget, which identifies the type of system I was discussing..

"The combination of the two compliance options and the phase-in will allow manufacturers to continue to use current indirect TPMSs during that period and ease the implementation of the TPMS standard. The agency notes that, for vehicles already equipped with ABS, the installation of a current indirect TPMS is the least expensive way of complying with a TPMS standard. The compliance options and phase-in will also give manufacturers the flexibility needed to innovate and improve the performance of their TPMSs. This flexibility will improve the chances that ways can be found to improve the detection of under-inflation as well as reduce the costs of doing so."

So, it looks like they are moving away from using the ABS sensors as a method of determining under-inflation..

Here is the link to the website:

NHTSA

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · June 2006

..to the full regulation...

NHTSA

satire2 · June 2006

I see Motor Trend/July has a nice article on the Legacy GT - a long-term verdict. It's a good review - they liked it, and it held up well!

romicva · June 2006

So, has this been resolved?
Thank you.
Roman. :confuse:

khallock · June 2006

Anyone seen this?

My husband sat in the passenger seat on a drive to Boston and noticed that the floor there was soaked and water was coming from up under the dash. It has been raining plenty lately and we dont have a garage! I have an appointment for this tomorrow but just wanted to know if anyone else had this problem. I have a '05 LLBean wagon. I hope it hasn't been leaking for too long.

kmclean · June 2006

Does your wagon have a sunroof? A blocked drain (sunroofs are not water-tight, and remove the water that enters around the perimeter through several drains) can channel the water to some interior locations.

Ken in (periodically wet) Seattle

khallock · June 2006

Yes, I have a dual moonroof. Well I dropped it at the dealership today so hopefully they will get it fixed. They gave me an '06 Tribeca to drive though and now I want to trade in my Outback for that. It has so much space!

qbrozen · June 2006

if its coming from under the dash and it doesn't smell like coolant, its probably a bad windshield seal.

smiller · June 2006

I bought a new Outback, 2.5i, in Sept.2004. The car now has less than 16,000 miles on it, one would think for a $24,000
car it would be trouble free for at least 3 years. Every time I take it in, for anything, I complain about the slip/surge. It happens after turning on a side street, of course it never happens when the service people drive it. The headlights look impressive but they burn out too soon, TWO have failed so far. I had the check engine light come on, so they said the neutral switch was stuck high and they reset it.
A day later the car would not start or crank. They finally replaced the neutral switch and adjusted the gear shifter.
I hate the gated gear shift. I hate the brakes. They scrape the rotors for about the first 5 brake applications,
making a noise everyone in the car can hear, this happens everyday and the service dept. says this is normal.
I need to either trade it in for a Toyota/Honda or buy the extended warranty - glad I live near the dealership but of course they hate to see me walk in.

ateixeira · June 2006

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Sounds like you got a Friday 5pm build, as we call 'em. Not too many of those, fortunately, but that doesn't do squat for you.

See if things settle down, if now, I wouldn't blame you for ditching it.

Before you give up entirely, call 800-SUBARU3 and see if they'll assist with a trade. Lightning never strikes twice, they say, so hopefully you'll be luckier if you can replace it.

-juice

beanboy · June 2006

Khallock,

Almost guarantee it is the evaporator drain line for the AC. A known issue with the 2005+ Legacy model, multiple folks have had the trouble, usually after a fall/spring cycle of parking outdoors. How close are trees/shrubs to the car where you park? Debris builds up in the line and clogs, letting water overflow and drip into the passenger footwell.

Water should be coming from the top left corner of the passenger footwell. If you look you can see the black drain line in that corner, which runs through the firewall and dumps out the water near the front suspension lower arm/exhaust.

No real solution, all the dealer does is run compressed air through the line to clean it out.

Why a Subaru, which portrays an outdoor image, can flood the passenger footwell from parking outside is beyond me.

It could be as others have suggested as well, but I'd say they are far less common than the evap drain line issue. Let us know what it was!

-B

glenski01 · June 2006

what kind of add'l issues or comments on the 06 Outback do you have. I (with a slight reservation) getting very close to purchasing a new 2.5I Outback. Am spoiled, have had Honda, Nissan & Toyota products with ABSOLUTLY no issues. Do not have the time or desire to put up with a car with quality or mechanical problems, and hate rattles!!

Thanks in advance for any info!

khallock · June 2006

Thanks! I always park outside because I dont have a garage. I live in rural VT. I dont really have many trees next to where I park, but they are around and the wind blows...

My husband said there was a hole up under the dash and that the water was coming from that. So it sounds like its probably the AC line like you said.

smiller · June 2006

Thanks for the advice, I will call SOA soon.
I do like Subaru Outbacks, my wife and I bought our first one new in 1999 and we loved it, never had any problems in the five and a half years we owned it. After the car was totalled in an accident (no one was hurt) we decided to get another, safer
Outback. I will give it more time.

Steve

kens · June 2006

Sorry to hear about the problems with a relatively new vehicle. What do you mean by slip/surge?

The headlights shouldn't be burning out so soon. Mine have been fine for the last two years. I wonder if they are being installed properly (ie. not touching the glass). Was it two on the same side or one on each that went out?

The gated shifter -- did you not get to try that on your test drive? I have the 5-speed auto but I like the gated pattern as I can find the gears without having to look down at the console unlike a straight pattern.

Rotors -- do you park outside? If so, it could be overnight condenstation causing a very thin film of rust on the discs that get scuffed off after the first few stops. I get that every time I wash my car and get the discs wet. It's really harmless.

Ken

smiller · June 2006

When I slow down from 30 to turn right to a side road, it happens after I make the turn and I accelerate back to 30.
No response for a second then, a sudden surge,it's like someone gave you a push.

Two headlights, both passenger side. I would not be surprised if it was installed the wrong way.

I did get to try the gated shifter during the test drive and I didn't like it, which didn't matter because my wife is the main driver, she doesn't seem to mind.

I don't park outside over night, it stays in the garage.
I never see any rust build up on the rotors at all, they seem shiny.
My old car would only do it in the morning after washing
it the night before.

larrycrowell · June 2006

I checked with my dealer just today. They are still waiting to receive the electronics to re-program a car's ECU at their location. I guess that prior to this Subaru required the ECU to be sent off to the re-programming gods somewhere, with a several day turnaround. I'll be sure to post when this is resolved.

reliable2 · June 2006

I had similar issues a year ago at 16k after buying the same 2005 OB wagon in Nov 2004 and after 5 visits they replaced and adjusted the inhibitor/neutral switch "clockwise until switch was centered properly" and my cruise control, check engine light and no start problems ended and I have motored up to 35k miles with no more problems. I came from a Honda/Toyota background and share your frustration and listen to this - in the last year my other 2000 Outback had the head gasket replaced under Sube warranty, a tranny leak, two engine seal leaks and a front pinion gear replaced to the tune of $2500. I am glad to say that this warrior now has a clean bill of health and I am going to sell it and buy a 2006 OB at invoice, minus $2000 rebate and zero percent financing - all I have to say is get at least the classic extended warranty for the right mileage/year combo for $750 to $1250 as Subes are not cheap to fix but they provide outstanding safety, value and durability and the 2005/2006 2.5I has so much stuff included that you have to be a real motorhead or a big spender to buy anything else! I will keep the forum advised on the wisdom of owning this duo after my earlier frustrating experiences!Good Luck to all of you Fockers and give Sube a try for world class safety and performance at a reasonable price, but plan on the extended warranty if your dealer is charging $85 per hour like mine!

outbike1 · June 2006

Gelnski01-

Well, I drove the car 1000mi down to Florida, stayed there for a month, and am now in process of driving it back home. Did 400mi today, will do 600mi tomorrow. So, I now have about 3400mi on the car (4000 by the time I get back). So far the only issues I am having is the intermittent buzz in the dash behind the instrument panel that occurs around 1500rpm (not the fuel lines, it is immeidately behind the gauge cluster) and what appears to be ill-fitting window trim near the passenger side rear-view mirror that is allowing air in at speeds greater than 50mph (or slower if there is a strong head/crosswind). I am in the process of debating whether I want to have the dealer mess with these two issues - I am dubious of their repair efforts and fear that they may make matters worse.
Other than that, the car (knock on wood) is fairly solid. Love the engine, much more refined and powerful when compared to my old 96. Like the transmission too, when compared to my old car - smoother and the additional gear (5 vs. 4) is nice plus. With the exception of the passenger window trim, the rest of the interior is flawless, as is the exterior fit and finish. I guess my one other minor gripe would be the Bridgestone Tires - seem to generate quite of bit of road noise. I used to run nothing but Michelins on my 96 - will definitely return to Michelin when the Bridgestones are shot.

Overall, I really like Subarus - my 96 was a tank and I hope to have the same experience with the new one. The cars offer unbeatable versatility, safety, and value (6 air bags, ABS, AWD, comfortable ride, great handling and decent cargo room for less than 24K!).

Let me know if you have any specific areas of concern. I too, appreciate the quality and craftmanship of Honda and Toyota - but until they offer a mid-sized wagon with AWD (the Matrix & RAV4 do not count) - it is Suabru for me.

-Outbike

kat95 · June 2006

I am sorry to hear you are having issues with your vehicle. This is my second new car and both were Subaru's after much research. The 05 Legacy has been good so far.
I did the research on "nhtsa.gov and edmunds" both have a wealth of information. I was considering the Civic or Corolla, however, there were too many issues. I've heard that they are good cars but that the quality has diminished
over the last few years. Unfortunatly, even new cars come with problems too, which is frustrating after paying good money not have problems. The one thing I must say is that the original Subaru brakes aren't the best and sometimes feel like your stepping on mush. If you feel you've given
the Subaru a chance over time and are truly not happy with it, trade it in. Sometimes, I get the urge for a vehicle with better gas mileage but can't take the hit on losing money right now trading it in. Best wishes.

khallock · June 2006

Well I picked my car up from Subaru yesterday and they DID NOT FIX THE LEAK! I am pissed about it. They said they "couldn't duplicate it". So now my passenger side floor is soaking wet. If it keeps leaking my car is going to smell and the floor is going to rot out. He said he didnt know what our next step would be, except to try to let it dry out as best I can (hello! I dont have indoor parking) and to bring it back if it happens again.

They said they checked the AC thing and also the sunroof drains.

My DH says we will try it 3 times and if they cant fix it we will ask for lemon paperwork. LOL. Then I can get a Tribeca instead since I could use more space in the car...

locke2c · June 2006

Kristin, are there any other Subaru dealers near you?

~Colin

smiller · June 2006

I had the same problem with my old 99 outback, it was caused by plugged drain holes under the door sill. I just poked a small screwdriver up into the holes to clean them out.
Watch out for the water draining.LOL
If the drain holes under the car get plugged you will see your floor flood, the sill fills up and spills over under the carpet.Hope this helps.

Steve

kmclean · June 2006

Kristen -

Since Steve mentioned his "flooding" from water-logged door sills, it reminded me of an incident I had with my Outback wagon when it was a couple of years old. My wife reported a sloshing sound coming from the door when she made turns. I was a bit incredulous, but she was absolutely correct - it was actually the sills under the doors. I finally realized that the solution was to find the opening in the front mud flap, and hose the daylights out of it to free the drain channel of accumulated crud (and there was a lot - it drained out down behind the rear passenger door). I now do this every time I wash the car. I'd never had a car with front mud flaps before, so this was a novel problem for me. I don't know how your car is configured - or if it could somehow allow water to get into the passenger floor, but the hose solution is free and easy (take a flashlight and poke around with your finger on the front - inner - side of your mud flaps).

I believe that leaking OEM windshields are pretty rare - more common with replacements. But rare doesn't mean impossible.

Good luck - keep us informed.

Ken in Seattle

kat95 · June 2006

I have an 05 Legacy sedan,the driver's seat creaks. I have
never experienced this with my other Subaru or other vehicles. The dealer says "haven't heard of this" looks at me like I have two heads and offers no solution. I think it's one of those mysterious sounds I'll have to deal with.

lilengineerboy · June 2006

So I picked up a HiddenHitch from JCWhitney for $120, and got the tail-light converter for $50, since Subaru decided only Outbacks want to tow a trailer, they didn't have a pug and play option for my car listed :mad:
That said, from looking at the left tail-light, it looks like black is ground, green is brake, green/white is running lamp, and blue/green is turn. Does that sound right?
I am thinking about cramming the module where the factory plug would be on the left side in the cargo bay. Does this seem reasonable? The tail-light converter requires direct power from the battery, I have no idea how to run this cable and am open to suggestions.
TIA

henryhh · June 2006

My 2005 Legacy GT does the same thing. It was only
80 degrees and the AC could not cool the car. It
blows cold air when the compressor is running, but
it only runs half the time! It blows warm air
intermitently. There is no way I can live with this
in a $30,000 car. I hope the dealer can fix it.
Have you had any luck with yours?
Hank

henryhh · June 2006

Kevin,
If you could check with your dealer and find out
exactly what they replaced to get your AC working,
I should would appreciate it. I don't want to sweat
this summer in my 2005 GT limited wagon! Feel free
to email me directly (enlightenedny@yahoo.com
Thanks for any help,
Henry

luck11 · June 2006

larry,

Anything you can find out about the fix, when it happens, would be appreciated. ie. is there a specific SOA bulletin for it, or any details regarding what needs to be done.

This would certainly help us (having this issue) when we go to our respective dealers.

Thx.

luck11 · June 2006

Folks, I was away for 3 days on travel, during which my 05 OB XTL sat in my garage. I was out this morning and backing into a parking space. Steering wheel was approximately half way between dead centre and fully cranked. There was a noticeable clicking sound coming from the front end....seemed like both sides as I was going in revers. I could swear I felt it slightly in the steering wheel. Only on turns, and only while moving in reverse (I think....didn't notice it going forward but will have to try on my way home tonight).

Called the dealer and they are booked until Mon, but said that tech could at least test drive on Friday to tell me if it is driveable for a long road trip. Service guy said it might be the backing plates on the brakes sticking since the car sat for 3 days.

Any ideas? Could this be a major prob with the drive system? I am supposed to go on a road trip early next week, and don't want to have deal with broken down vehicle.

Cheers.

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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