Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

smiller · September 2006

Once all vehicles are equipped with the stability systems, likely by 2012, they could save more than 10,000 lives, says the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and eliminate more than 500,000 crashes annually, while saving billions of dollars in medical, repair and insurance costs.
"This proven technology senses when a driver may lose control and automatically stabilizes the vehicle," Nason told a U.S. House committee. "ESC could be the greatest safety innovation since the seat belt."

Worth it? I would say yes.

xwesx · September 2006

Considering the capability of today's average drivers and the lack of responsibility therein, sure. Go for it. :sick:

ateixeira · September 2006

OK, then what about this one? The NUVI? The screen is 3.5" diagonally.

-juice

choekuo · September 2006

This looks great. Does anyone have this and know for certain this can be mounted in the dash space?

mrk610 · September 2006

Yes you are right about the head gasket problem . I have lived with piston slap in my car almost since it was new . If you have never experienced it then you where lucky .
Its hard to explain but It was very hard to explain to other people about the loud knocking coming from a fairly new car . They jsut say why don't you get it fixed . Even though my car was under warrenty they still refused to fix it . I never had to deal with the head gasket problem.

chassol · September 2006

Absolutely no chance (so far) for 2007 for VDC on the manual - as I have the 2007 Outback brochure and VDC is only available on the automatic. Don't write off the automatic as it is real nice with the XT Limited setup. Of course I realize there is an extra cost, but IMHO it's worth it especially with the VDC and the rest of the safety package. To get all of this for the 06 w/Nav price of last year ($34,820) is no small feat. Expensive - yep, but if safety is a major concern - there is no way you can beat the price for so much and get a $750 rebate until (I think) the end of October (but check on this).

Drive one and you will see what I mean. One thing make sure the service department has set the tire pressure at the right pressure and didn't leave it as it was off the truck. They set the tires way high at the factory for the transport to the dealer lot and the service department is suppose to set them at the correct pressure when they do the dealer prep.

garandman · September 2006

Once all vehicles are equipped with the stability systems, likely by 2012, they could save more than 10,000 lives, says the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and eliminate more than 500,000 crashes annually, while saving billions of dollars in medical, repair and insurance costs.
They also said this about airbags. Yet airbags pretty much only reduce injury for people not wearing seatbelts. I was hit head-on in a car with front airbags. I had the seatbelt on, and tight. Both airbags deployed but never touched me - destroying the dash in the process. They increased the cost of repair by $2,400.

To answer the question asked, I've driven three Outbacks a total of 230,000 miles in the last 6 years throughout Northern New England. I doubt all wheels have been sliding for more than a combined total of 20 seconds in all that time. the number of times ESC would have done anything for me is zero. So to me it's worth zero.

I do spend a lot on tires, with dedicated snows in the winter and excellent rain tires in the other three seasons, replacing the mediocre-at-best Bridgestone RE92A's standard on the 06.

So I'd rather have an 06 with two sets of rims than an 07 with ESC and the stock tires. But it's not really a $2,000 option - the 07 is a MY newer and the resale value down the road will be higher.

Does the 07 have a telescoping steering column? That's about the only thing I'd like to have on my 06. It seems Subaru is still showing the 2006 specs, since they list the 3.0R wagon I have, discontinued for 07 in that trim level.

c_hunter · September 2006

They are always late posting new models on the website -- maybe an attempt to finish selling the 06 models. I don't think 07 gets a telescoping wheel, unfortunately (rumor has it the 08 will).

By the way, I was sorry to see them drop the 3.0R wagon -- I always like the idea of the H6 and accompanying features with cloth interior.

c_hunter · September 2006

Thanks for clarifying that -- no VDC with manual trans, as has been the past history.

ateixeira · September 2006

I haven't seen anyone do this yet, if I got a new Legacy or Outback I'd probably be the first.

What are the dimensions of the opening?

The Nuvi is:

Unit dimensions: 3.87" W x 2.91" H x 0.87" D (98.3 mm x 73.9 mm x 22.1 mm)

-juice

kmclean · September 2006

I've driven a 2K OB in Seattle since March of 2000. Of course, the VDC wasn't available at that time, so there was no choice. The Limited, however, came with the limited slip [rear] differential, which is one reason I opted for that model back then. Also, the AWD with the manny tranny had a 50/50 default F/R split, which appealed to my sense of a good AWD set-up for the PNW.

My experience has been excellent, especially for our rainy season (like last winter!!). One key factor is to select tires with good wet weather performance (I picked the Goodyear Eagle GT/HRs when I swapped rubber - although there's a newer model - Assurance? - that I'd look at today). I've never had any challenges with that set-up around Seattle. The tires are OK - but not optimal - for snow, and fine for dry-weather highway cruising. If you're up in or over the passes regularly, you might want a set of dedicated winter tires (don't bother with studs), otherwise toss in a set of light-weight cable chains for backup.

While I appreciate the advantages of stability control systems, I've never had occasion to wish I had it in all the years of enthusiastically driving the twisting, turning mountain pass roads all over the western US - fully loaded or nearly empty, wet or dry.

Stop by Carter Subaru and drive both and see which you prefer - especially since things have changed in six years. But if you're a typical Seattle commuter, with occasional trips up to the snow, I'd expect you could pass on the VDC (and that way you could get the 2.5i and the manny tranny, and save some serious bucks on gas).

Ken in Northshore

krzyss · September 2006

if you want VDC and manual you need to buy 2007 Legacy GT Spec B. It also means that you buy 18" wheels, nav and fancy interior. For more fun it is available in single exterior color.

What a packaging.

Krzys

c_hunter · September 2006

This is another example of Subaru being stingy with a safety feature that should be on all models. You can buy entry level cars with stability control from other manufacturers, but Subaru still only has it on the high end models. If they are worried about cost, then at least make it optional and let the buyer decide.

About the only time I would want VDC on my 05 OB XT is on snowpacked or icy roads. The car likes to "jiggle" around in the rear, and feels nervous (my wife thought I was sawing at the wheel and goofing off, until I took my hands off the wheel and the car still did it!). It would be nice to know some electronics would clamp down on that jiggle if it turned into a yaw. My previous two Outbacks were a lot more confident feeling on the same roads. Perhaps it's the rear-bias of the VTD on the XT.

choekuo · September 2006

I ended up getting the 2007 version for a number of reasons. The SI drive system actually favors the difference in driving between myself and my wife. The "Sport" driving position actually has shifts similarly to the 2006, "the performance ... is similar to the 2006 turbo models, with quick throttle responses"-- that is, with a fair amount of torque and nice power kick that I like.

The "Intelligent" position, according to the literature from the company that is given to the dealers, actually "reduces engine torque and maximum power and switches to a more relaxed throttle response curve... restrains peak output by about 20 per cent, and peak torque to 228 lb-ft"-- this is more like the way my wife prefers to drive.

Whether or not the VDC system alone would be worth the difference is possibly still debateable. However, given all the other factors, the addition of VDC can only be a good thing (IMHO).

Also, besides the rebate of $750, there's a factory hold-back that doesn't seem to appear on the Edmunds site yet (this was confirmed by my dealer,when I asked how I was able to get pricing under invoice). All told, with $750 back, without navigation and with several optional accessories including XM radio installed, got a 2007 for around $29,800 which is significantly under invoice of $31,100. While the 2006 models were going locally for $28,000, I felt that the difference was worth $2000.

Thanks to everyone for their excellent advice and opinions!

c_hunter · September 2006

Congratulations! So what color did you get?

Craig

chassol · September 2006

UPDATE

Now through October 2, 2006 - ALL 2007 Outback models (excluding Outback Sport) are available with $750 Customer Cash. Must take delivery from dealer stock by October 2, 2006. See your participating dealer for details. Cannot be combined with any other incentives.

chassol · September 2006

Have you tried the S# yet? - WOW is about the only word for it.

I took the NAV as it was the only XT Limited my dealer had (has had).

Dealer actually went about $550 or so under invoice as 29,800 + $750 rebate (dealer usually keeps) put it at $30,550, but $550 under invoice is still a darn good deal. This shows the dealer wants to get the sale and get a new model on the road where more folks can see it (This is another advantage of being first to buy a new model - the next buyers may not get as good a deal).

What color interior and exterior did you get? How is mileage so far? Enjoy your Subie!!!

edwardsf · September 2006

I don't know. EPA's method of mileage testing (currentl done on some kind of treadmill) is supposed to be changed soon to better reflect real world driving. Even Edmunds and CR do not do real world driving because they are testing the car under set peformance conditions or are simply taking road trips with no control factors.

But I will say that EPA's estimate matches my driving in my Saab.

tdennen · September 2006

I don't know why folks complain about the fuel economy of the Subaru Legacy Outback XT. I own a '99 Legacy Outback and and '06 XT. When I drive I get about 19-20 MPG in the city and 25-27 on the highway with both. Sure I can goose it and lower the fuel economy a bunch with the XT but you gotta be driving too fast or aggresively. I drive in the Boston area so you need to be reasonably quick otherwise you get run over!

BTW: If I wanted better fuel economy I would've bought a econo-box.

dougb10 · September 2006

I have a 2005 Outback Limited. A few days ago, I tried to fit a wooden headboard for a bed into the rear with the seats down. The top of the headboard pushed up into the head lining and left a 12" "groove" about 2" wide.
The head lining itself was not torn or ripped.
It appears to me that the foam insulation itself has been compressed and doesn't want to return to its original shape.
Other than being reminded of it every time I look in the rear view mirror, there is no problem. It is strictly cosmetic. Having it all replaced would be too expensive.
Any thoughts about fixing this, or should I just accept the fact that I am a klutz and enjoy my Outback.
Many thanks.

Doug

kens · September 2006

Doug,

Sorry to hear about the damage. Given your vehicle is relatively new and that you will be reminded of it every time you look back, I would try and fix it.

My guess is that a dealer will just replace the entire headliner, which will be the foolproof, yet expensive way to fix it. Given that, I wonder if you could try and fix it yourself. A few things you could try:
- Massaging back the foam through the headliner
- Cutting a very small section of the headliner to access the foam with some thin tool and seeing if you can "pull" it back into shape
- Using that same opening and filling the area with some other foam to help make it less noticeable

You probably can close up the incision with some Crazy Glue.

Ken

garandman · September 2006

By the way, I was sorry to see them drop the 3.0R wagon -- I always like the idea of the H6 and accompanying features with cloth interior.
I put Katzkin leather in it. But I don't fit in the LLBean or VDC as the sunroof eats up too much headroom.

garandman · September 2006

This looks great. Does anyone have this and know for certain this can be mounted in the dash space?

Go to any of the dedicated Subaru boards - there are many threads and pictures.

wmquan · September 2006

Can you wait a few months on your vehicle purchase? E.g. until around Christmas?

If you wait, you'll surely get much better discounts on the 2007's. Subaru won't offer better rebates on the 2007's until more 2006's are cleared out.

This way, you'd get VDC and SI for a good price.

choekuo · September 2006

Sorry to be dense since I'm new to this forum... where do I find these dedicated Subaru boards that could show me this?

dougb10 · September 2006

Hi Ken....appreciate your suggestions. I have tried to "massage" the foam using a lint roller, but it had little effect. Because the headliner itself is not damaged, I am reluctant to cut through it and attempt to fill the indentation in the foam, then replace the headlining. I am concerned it would really look like a patch job....actually worse than before.
I think I will probably leave it alone....the car has been absolutely perfect and we love it. Just made one change early....dumped the Potenza's and replaced them with Bridgestone Turanza LS-H tires. Huge improvement on the ride and handing in the wet.

Thanks again.

Doug

kmclean · September 2006

Hi, Doug,

Sorry about that aggravating ding to your headliner - I know the feeling.

Since you seem to be faced with either a homemade repair or swapping the whole thing out, how about: 1) trying to expand the foam with heat - like a hair dryer (start on low), or, 2) a bit of heat and steam, like those travel steamers that you use to "unwrinkle" clothes that have been mashed in your suitcase.

Sounds like you couldn't go too far wrong!

Ken in Seattle

dougb10 · September 2006

Ken in Seattle...
Thanks....will give it a try. The last time I used my wife's hair dryer was to try and remove condensation between the panes of a large picture window of a condo that we had. Wrong idea! A loud cracking noise confirmed that "Mr. Fixit" had screwed up again.
Can't see that I have too much to break this time....

Doug

P.S. Love visiting your part of the country!

garandman · September 2006

Sorry to be dense since I'm new to this forum... where do I find these dedicated Subaru boards that could show me this?

Do a web search for places like ultimatesubaru.net; legacygt.com; nasioc.com; subaruoutback.org etc.

The forums here have information on all kinds of cars and trucks, so it's better for comparisons. Pricing and dealer information also tends to be the most current here.

But the moderators push everything into one thread per car line. So there's Outback 2005+, for example: including the turbocharged XT, the H6 models, and the four cylinder models. So the dedicated forums will have much more specific information - sometimes only of interest to an enthusiast.

choekuo · September 2006

Thanks, very helpful.

c_hunter · September 2006

Doug, I know the feeling -- I have done stuff like this before. Often, it's impossible to fix without making it look worse.

You may be able to press the headliner back into shape from the back -- which would require getting behind it somehow. If the damage is near the rear of the car, that's a help, since you're already near an edge. But you'd likely have to remove the side trim to drop the headliner enough to get behind it.

The headliner itself is a compressed plastic/fiber/board material with foam padding and the outer cloth. I imagine the inner board layer is dented, and could possibly be pressed back into shape (the foam and cloth layers wouldn't have a memory, so I bet the board layer is what's damaged).

I would not go to the dealer for something like this -- they are notoriously inept at finesse work. I know people who have gotten headliners replaced (for example, under warranty during the repair of a leaking moon roof) and the interior was never the same again. You often have to take a lot of side trim off to get at the headliner.

On my 05 Outback, I have gotten behind the headliner (to run wires) in the area of the dome lights and moonroof. These areas are easy to get to. If the damage is in this area, you could possibly gain access to the back of the headliner and use a flat piece of metal stock fed through the hole(s) to work the headliner.

Good luck!
Craig

p.s. I am slowly learning to live with dents/etc, so that may be the best advice!

dougb10 · September 2006

I agree with you Craig...there is no way I am going to try to take things apart to fix something that is strictly cosmetic. The car is a gem and hasn't received even one door ding, so the first "blemish" always appears to be prominent. Most people would never notice this at all.
The best thing I did with the Outback, was to get the 3M transparent tape covering the front of the hood to stop stone chips. It has worked beautifully. I am sorry I did not install it on my '03 Camry when I got it new...there are a ton of chips on the front that really detract from its appearance.
Thank you for your ideas.

Doug

zman3 · September 2006

Hey Doug:

I have never shopped for the 3M tape but was thinking about putting it on my 06 OB.

Is is custom cut or do you cut it yourself?

Where can it be bought? Any auto parts store?

Thanks.

Karl

dougb10 · September 2006

Hi Carl,

The 3M tape was installed by a company specialized in this area. The dealer brought him in to put it on prior to delivery. I watched him do it....he used a heat gun to shape it to the hood contours. It was a job I would never attempt on my own.
I negotiated the tape, rustproofing and the auto-dimming mirror as part of the deal...not sure how much the tape would cost if I went somewhere separately. I am very happy with the job 18 months later.

Doug

dougb10 · September 2006

Hi Ken in Seattle,

Tried the hair dryer this morning but not much change. The headliner backing is just too mushed to bring it back to life. Worth a shot anyway...Thanks.

Doug

dougb10 · September 2006

Sorry...it should have been Karl...not Carl.

c_hunter · September 2006

I put the 3M film on my 05 Outback, and it has been great -- works like a charm. I have a couple chips to touch up outside the protected area, but the front of the hood still looks fine after 2 years. I really like the stuff.

I ordered the kit from RockBlocker.com and installed it myself. The Outback is an easier install apparently, and OK for DIY'ers. It's still a fairly involved project, and took me about an hour with a lot of prep beforehand.

edwardsf · September 2006

Thanks TD. Again, I was talking EPA ratings which are notoriously inaccurate. I am very happy to hear that an XT gets such good real world mileage. And in Boston, for goodness sake! I have driven all over the third world and have never seen such bizarre and aggressive driving as I have in Boston! It's like San Francisco Chinatown drivers on steroids...

ateixeira · September 2006

Perfect excuse to add an aftermarket moonroof.

-juice

dougb10 · September 2006

Hey Juice....the Limited already has a sunroof....although I guess it could always be made a little bigger.

I know....how about a new TV show...every week we could show how the "world's worst do-it yourselfers" screw up an otherwise nice car.

Ahhhh....don't think my wife would let me go first.

Doug

ateixeira · September 2006

How 'bout another rear one like the Element has.

-juice

jbbwv · September 2006

I have a 05 OBW, 2.5i, 4EAT that is coming up on the 30k service. I notice that the Trans. fluid nor the Diff. lub is changed on any of the major service points. Would it be worth the extra Subaru Bucks to have them changed at 30k? I live in WV and the hills on the secondary roads (plus living on top of a ridge w/gravel roads) make for a lot of down/up shifting.

Thanks!! JB

garandman · September 2006

Thanks TD. Again, I was talking EPA ratings which are notoriously inaccurate. I am very happy to hear that an XT gets such good real world mileage.

Try Legacygt.com. This is really exceptionally superlatively good mileage for an XT. I have an H6 and have never gotten over 26.1 mpg (one tank) on the highway, also in the Boston area. This is by actual logged use, not the trip computer, hwich has shown up to 31.3 mpg on a partial tank and highway driving.

jeenyus · September 2006

:shades: well i'm new to the board and i was wondering if anyone knew any good places in los angeles to get performance parts. i'm looking to up my torque on my 06 outback sport se, which i love. is there anyway of keeping the interior clean when its beige???

aaykay · September 2006

I believe years back when Edmunds started out, they were comprehensive in showing the true profit that a dealer makes, including details about the holdback. They used to list the holdback percentage by automakers.

I find now, that details of the "holdback" have simply disappeared from Edmunds completely. Have the dealers "got to them" ?

Anyone know what the holdback on Subarus are ? Imprezas and Legacies.

kyfdx · September 2006

Holdback

aaykay · September 2006

Oops...thanks a bunch. Glad to learn that Edmunds is still very much independent and a strong resource for auto-related information.

garandman · September 2006

The True Market Value seems a little soft, however. The last three cars we have purchased have been $500 to $800 under the TMV price quoted here.

ateixeira · September 2006

I changed my gear oils at 60k and they weren't too bad. Then again my Miata had 26k miles (though it was 8 years old) and the rear diff fluid was nasty.

Since yours is an '05, I'd say you can wait til 60k.

-juice

renssils · September 2006

Is there any difference between an Outback XT and a Outback LLBean or, for that matter, 2006 VDC in terms of comfort on a long trip? Seats, noise, harshness, vibration? My daily driver is a 2006 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT spec.B, which has been reliable and comfortable. The station wagon would be a new car for my wife. Thanks.

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles