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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    Thanks! I'll pay them a visit this weekend - or on the way home.

    The Outback sedan gets no respect... I've liked it since I first saw it in the old (pre-2000) body design...must have been 1998...
  • johntrackerjohntracker Member Posts: 11
    Here's the link to the crash test on the new outback

    http://www.aaa.asn.au/NCAP/PDF%20Docs/outbackc04.pdf

    And this is the link to all the tests

    http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/mpaine/ncaplist.html
  • legacy191legacy191 Member Posts: 29
    Does anyone have firm prices on the 05' turbo wagon. I didn't get to the auto show and I can't find any firm prices on the car.. again help..

    Tony T.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    is not out yet, but expected somewhat soon- the car is due for release in mid/late May, from what I understand. Just keep checking www.need-desire.com.

    ~alpha
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    ...and here. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if pricing was found here before there...
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Try the official website of the 2005 Subaru Legacy/Outback: http://www.need-desire.com

    :-)
  • adaveyadavey Member Posts: 30
    don't know where else to put this. is there any idea for a subaru convertible EVER again?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd love to see a B9SC in production, but it's unlikely. Subaru needs a bigger car more than it needs a drop-top.

    -juice
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Anyone know if all the 2005 H6 outbacks are to have wood trim on the wheel and dash? Maybe the base cloth 3.0R will have a plain black or black/beige interior, without the wood trim? From a Canadian brochure shot the 2005 Outback 2.5i Limited w/leather looks like it has wood trim also. I'm not a fan of wood trim, and I like the (pre-production) 2005 Legacy interior a lot better.

    Maybe none of this is for sure as we have not seen US production cars yet.....

    JP
  • eurosnobeurosnob Member Posts: 7
    Does anyone know if there is a difference in the size of the sunroofs between the Legacy Wagon and the Outback? I saw the Outback at the Chicago show with the "jumbo" roof but there was no Legacy there. I want the large roof, but don't particularly need the outback. Thanks in advance.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    Sunroof is the same....
  • jowettjowett Member Posts: 12
    Was at the B.C.auto show yesterday and they had a couple of 2005 Outbacks there.Started chatting to the rep and found out some new info that I am sure will be of interest to readers of this thread.
    1/ There will be no naturally aspirated 4 cyl Outback models in the 2005 lineup...only turbo 4 and 6 cyl.
    2/VDC will be offered through the whole Outback lineup.( no more paying a CAD13000 premium for that priviledge)
    3/The price of the 2005 entry level outback will now be CAD 27000-28000.( They presently start at around CAD32000,so decreasing by about CAD5000).

    Now this fellow was not theorizing about these things he was stating them as absolute facts.He was also the only rep circulating out on the floor at the time I was at the Subaru display.
    .....SCARY..........My wife could have done better with a brochure in one hand!(not being misogynistic here, its just that she is not a car person).
    Congratulations Subaru ,you get my goat of the year award for incompetence at this years show.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's kind of hard to believe. No 2.5l Outback? Maybe only for Canada. They've already shown a Legacy 2.5i and 2.5i Limited, and list them on need-desire.com.

    That price drop is also hard to believe given all the added content. I'd be thrilled if pricing was kept flat.

    Lastly, VDC is only on the VDC from what we heard.

    I think that rep was just plain drunk. I doubt all three statements.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    However they sometimes do things differently at SOC.

    Bob
  • jowettjowett Member Posts: 12
    Yes...of course its unbelievable.My post was factual in as much as this is what the guy told me but sarcastic in my thinking any of it was true.
    It just shows that although a lot of car companies pour a ton of money into these shows they then manage to mess it up so badly by the personnel they have staffing the booths.I have noticed similar instances in the past specifically with Toyota and Mitsubishi, although I will give some kudos to VW this year as they seemed to have a handle on facts/figures and info on forthcoming products etc.

    Still, I suppose that hope springs eternal and we can but dream that all 3 points come true.( not going to happen).
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    It isn't true. The second paragraph from the Canadian press release announcing the 2005 Outback, which appears on the company's website, http://www.subaru.ca, and which is a press release and therefore in the public domain, reads as follows:

    The complete 2005 Outback lineup will consist of the naturally aspirated Outback 2.5i and 2.5i Limited, turbo-charged Outback 2.5XT, and the Outback 3.0R, powered by the second generation of Subaru's 3.0-litre 6-cylinder engine. Outback 2.5i is equipped with the naturally aspirated 2.5-litre engine and will be offered with a choice of 5-speed manual transmission or Subaru's new 4-speed automatic with Sportshift®; the Sportshift® automatic is standard equipment on the 2.5i Limited . The 2.5XT turbo can be fitted with a 5-speed manual or a new Sportshift® 5-speed automatic. The Outback 3.0R is also equipped with the new 5-speed automatic. The choice of powertrains means that there's an Outback to fit the needs of virtually any active lifestyle.

    ***Given that that much is untrue, I wouldn't believe another word the man said...
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    That differently BOB, I wish,especially the price drop. I am afraid the rep was smoking something:-)The base Legacy L runs about $28KCDN

      Cheers Pat.
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    The rep could have done better with the brochure in his hand - all of the above info contradicts the current 2005 Canadian brochure (and website) - did they not hand these out at the show, as was the case in Calgary earlier in the month????

    CAD27,000 for a T4 or H6 is wishful thinking indeed, I had that dream myself last night. And not having an N/A 4 loses Subaru their #1 seller and only model that can run on regular fuel.

    Those prices are wrong.

    For the record our Outbacks will come as a 2.5i, a 2.5i Limited, a 2.5T Limited, a 3.0R base and a 3.0R VDC Limited. The base Outback 2.5i will be close (within CAD1000) of the 2004 model. The Outback 2.5i Limited will be close to the current 2004 Outback 4 Limited, (which is a bit overpriced IMO). The price of the rest less easy to estimate, but I expect the 3.0R to be in the 36-38K range and the 2.5T to be in the 38-40K range.

    I'm curious - which models did they show? H6 and turbo??

    JP
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I kinda got that feeling (that you were being sarcastic), but wasn't sure.

    You can't tell people's tones when they're written vs. spoken! ;-)

    -juice
  • jowettjowett Member Posts: 12
    Yes, I believe there was one 6cyl and 1 turbo.One was a leaf green, the other a light metallic green. Both very nice colours.

    Jowett
  • rp64rp64 Member Posts: 13
    The SIA website's milestones section says the new Legacy/Outback went into production February 27. True?
  • tocatoca Member Posts: 147
    My dealer told me over the weekend that he was going to get '05's in May. I would think they would need to be in production now to get them out in that time frame.
  • trueawdtrueawd Member Posts: 64
    Yes they are in full production getting ready for the big launch in the 3 week of May. I can't wait!!

    Legacy GT Turbo here I come.....The car will be the hottest thing out there!
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    Dealer didn't have the 2005 order guides with the Outback H6 sedan image...maybe (but doubt it) it will be at the NY auto show next weekend...
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    Mazda6 wagons hit US dealers last week and the folks who dont absolutely need AWD are looking real hard when you can buy a fully-loaded Mazda 6 wagon with all the bells and whistles, including the 200W Bose audio, for just under $27K msrp, and everyone is assuming a Legacy GT LTD will cost $30K and Outbacks considerably more....and no MacIntosh for 05!
       SoA is foolish to play games with the pricing info while they try to unload the inventory on the lots...Even when the new ones are here, I'm going to look at the remaining 04 LLBean's and VDC's and decide how to spend my $$....and I'm going to decide how many days each year I really need AWD.

    Mark
  • ozman62ozman62 Member Posts: 229
    You'll want it everyday. ;-)
    Owen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What if it's surprisingly low? If they announce them the 2004s will not sell.

    They may still be doing final packaging, too.

    -juice
  • trueawdtrueawd Member Posts: 64
    I think pricing is supposed to be out end of next week at the latest.

    The cars still don't come out for a Month and a 1/2. That seems like plenty of time to me.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    2005 production was also confirmed in a local Lafayette paper. Also, there have been more sightings of 05s in SoCal and the Detroit area (see nabisco forums).

    The pricing wait is frustrating, but the 05s won't be in dealers lots in volume until the summer. I'm sure it's only the dealers with high rankings that will get 05s in May.

    Ken
  • ntk1ntk1 Member Posts: 57
    If I remember correctly, when the WRX debuted, the prices were released about 1 month prior to cars getting to the showroom and the price levels were about $2k lower than the general speculation
  • jim1969jim1969 Member Posts: 62
    For those of you who already own the Legacy GT (which is just about everywhere except the United States), what is the recommended octaine?
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Still waiting patiently for Canadian prices for the 05 Outback. We do know which Outback wagon models we are getting - base Outback 2.5i, 2.5i Limited, 3.0R, XT Limited and 3.0R VDC

    May be interested in the 3.0R (avialable in auto only) or the Outback XT (we would pick the 5 speed). I know we dont know the actual price, but anyone care to hazard a guess at which of these will be the more expensive model. The H6 3.0R comes with cloth seats and no moonroof (=cheaper) but only comes with auto (5EAT) (= more expensive). The Outback XT only comes with the moonroof and leather (=more expensive), but can be had with 5 speed (=cheaper). Is it really more expensive for subaru to make an automatic car, or is the typical upcharge for auto a marketing thing??

    MSRP on the current cloth seat base model H6 wagon (Outback 35 Anniversary Wagon) in Canada is 35995, happens to be the same price as the PP1 MT Forester XT.

    The new 3.0R has so much new stuff than the 04 - 17" wheels, 40 more hp, sportshift, side/curtain airbags, etc - expecting it to be anywhere near the price of the outgoing model may be a bit optimistic?? But if they price it too high, they will be in the range where everyone expects leather so will not sell too many.

    Don't quite understand why Canada doesnt get the base Outback XT in cloth, Maybe MY 06.

    JP
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    In the US, the 3.0R will be positioned as the top of the line Legacy models with the LL Bean or VDC trims. There is no XT Ltd model in the US. My guess is that pricing will also be 3.0RVDC>3.0R LL Bean>XT.

    Ken
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Are you SURE? The brochure that I am looking at here says there IS. Or are you talking Outbacks?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There will be an Outback XT Limited here (leather & moonroof).

    Bob
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Bob is correct. There is a new thread in "news and rumors" over at nasioc that lists the US model line up by code - shows exactly what you guys are getting for 05. No prices yet though, but seems we are close.

    JP
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Oops. You're right. I was looking at the Need-Desire website and they don't mention a Ltd version.

    Ken
  • zoomer1zoomer1 Member Posts: 42
    Checked out the NASIOC site and if the posting is true the sedans do not come with stability control or 3.0 H6. Only the outbacks have these features?????? It still amazes me that Subaru is doing that yet they want to move upscale and test the $35K ceiling. Nice sedans but the whole world is getting into AWD Sedans (Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler, VW, Toyota, Ford, Mercury, Volvo, (weird not Honda yet), Acura RL, etc...I still maintain that SOA is making a big mistake by not including the H6 in the sedan and also including VDC.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Zoomer,
    It will be available in a sedan, OK it's an Outback sedan, but it is a sedan.

    As for stability...well guess the Outback VDC wagon will have to suffice.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    Thinking about it another way...

    Honda Accord Traction Control Edition?
    Toyota Camry Stability Control Edition?
    Subaru Outback Vehicle Dynamics Control Edition?

    It seems odd that Subaru can get away with having a seperate model trim just for the VDC, but somehow they do.

    I think that it should be standard on the VDC line, Standard on the GT/XT Line, and optional on the rest of the trims.

    The turbocharged models should have it for when the turbo kicks in and alters the dynamics of the car, especially in snowy/icy conditions. (Isn't this one of Subaru's pride points: Safety in adverse weather?)

    Anyway...

    PS. Does any body know if the Legacy GT and Outback XT will get the VTD or will it be active all-wheel drive?

    Ciao!
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Will be on Legacy GT / OB-XT / OB H6 models.

    In addition, these models will have the optional 5EAT (standard on H6).

    DaveM
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Stability Control is expected as an option on all trim levels of the Camry (both 4 cyl. and V6) for the 2005 revision.

    Subuaru has led the safety charge thus far, why not make stability control an option on all of the new Legacy/Outbacks?

    ~alpha
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I agree about making VDC an option on at least the VTD equipped models. But therein lies the problem -- aside from the STi, VTD is used only on automatic transmissions. It would create a product portfolio issue if only the automatics were to have a VDC option.

    Ken
  • zoomer1zoomer1 Member Posts: 42
    You are right IF one believes SOA needs to differentiate between Auto and Manual. Just like SOA doesn't differentiate between the types of AWD (3 different flavors) they shouldn't differentiate amongst VDC applications....make it an option that you can add. Toyota does that...Ford...Nissan...GM...and others have decided that traction control and stability control makes it easier for consumers to get good insurance rates and also makes it possible to get decent reviews in enthusiast magazines, tests, etc...

    One person's view but I believe that given the choices available to me I have a reasonable argument here. If I have a choice between an Infiniti G35x, Murano, Audi A4/A6, Pacifica, VW Passat, next gen. Fords and Chryslers, and Acuras all around $28k to $38K I might just choose the car that has the most safety features if everything else is equal. (Granted the Japanese brands including SOA have better reliability than the europeans and the US brands). So to keep folks like me as a SOA customer, charge for the VDC, but let me, the consumer, decide. Creating too many contrived niches will no longer work for SOA work given the plethora of AWDs coming between July 2004 and Feb 2005. SOA should focus on what they do best...sell a product that performs at a much higher level than the price you paid for. Safe cars with AWD is SOA's niche...they tried FWD sedans and failed. They can't compete against Accords and Camrys and Altimas volumes...maybe not even 6s. These cars can be had with VDC or will make VDC an option... In my opinion AWD loses some of the luster when this electronic wizardry is added. Proof: Check out the Popular Mechanics video of the RWD 300c on a frozen lake bed--if it is indeed a true rendition of what Stability Control can do for a 300HP RWD then AWD may no longer be a major safety selling factor except for a few number of consumers. So for SOA to stay in the game make the H6 and VDC available on sedans...if necessary, make it an option. Consumers will let you know if you planned it right. I will buy a 2.5GT or H6 Sedan (not outback) with VTD and VDC over an Accord, Camry, Altima, 6s, G35x, Murano, A4/A6, AWD Passat! I will buy a G35x, Murano, Highlander (HYBRID!!), AWD Passat with V6s and VDC over a 2.5GT Sedan because it is artificially constrained as a top of the line Sedan. Why should I have to go to an Outback Sedan (ugliest thing I have ever seen--IMHO) to get the features that should be in a high performance sedan (250hp+250 lbs torque). You can get the highly touted Mazda chassis in the Volvo V40 AWD and the S60 AWD with the higher end electronic wizardry should be reason enough for SOA to change their marketing position. Just one person's ramblings ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree that Subaru needs to spread VDC across other models, but keep in mind not all stability control systems are created equal.

    Toyota's VSC wasn't cutting it so they'll actually employ a different system by 2005, the one joe mentioned.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Actually, Subaru does differentiate between their AWD systems. Not only do they explain the differences of the three flavors on their website, they also make it quite clear in their product positioning:

    Active AWD: Entry-level to mid level models
    Auto VTD: High end and sport models
    Manual VTD: Ultimate sport application

    The only one AWD system that doesn't work well in their positioning is Continuous AWD since it spans all models except the STi. While it's a fool-proof system, it's purely reactive and doesn't have the technical appeal of the other types of AWD flavors. If Subaru were to just make VDC an option to all VTD models, that would just widen the gap even more between automatics and manuals. Subaru will eventually need to begin offering the STi Manual VTD to higher-end models to even things out.

    But I agree that Subaru does need some kind of stability control option regardless of the transmission type in order to remain competitive. The issue with VDC is that it's an integrated stability control system with VTD. Unlike other stability control systems that simply clamp down the brakes on an individual wheel, VDC will first try to correct an over/understeer situation by diverting torque forward or rearward.

    Ken
  • zoomer1zoomer1 Member Posts: 42
    You make several good points. Let me clarify, when I bought my Subaru, a few years back, the difference in AWD between the Auto and Manual version was not explicit (or made explicit in the brochures). You had to really read carefully and pay attention to the footnotes and sidebars to note the difference between continuous (manual: 50/50) and the auto version (variable front to back). Later on Subaru introduced the VTD and started to "market" the different types of AWD. So, until recently their marketing was mostly about the beauty of AWD and then it became different flavors of AWD (Symmetrical mumbo jumbo and VTD). I suspect only few of us care to know the difference ;-> and more importantly either debate it or comment on it. To the great masses AWD is AWD--and maybe that is good or maybe that is bad. SOA sold AWD first as a major "differentiator" from other brands and more recently they have started marketing the flavor of AWD to further differentiate among SOA products to justify the higher prices (nothing wrong with that). My point was really to that part of SOA's history--AWD was THE product. Since AWD has become ubiquitous the TYPE of AWD is the differentiator.

    You are right that this kind of strategy has created a "dilemma" for SOA as they do need different price points (Active AWD to Manual AWD). Right now their issue is mostly about product positioning and less about competition--until next year. Then you have several "manu-matics"/"shiftmatic"/"autostick" FWD/RWD/AWD vehicles with all kinds of electronic wizardry. SOA then is facing a competitive environment more than a product positioning issue. It will be interesting to see how they respond. Hopefully they will remain competitive.

    On a separate note can you imagine what happens if Toyota takes their AWD and Hybrid and applies it to the Camry, or Nissan applies AWD to the Altima, and Honda takes the Hybrid Accord and adds the Element's AWD to it? The manufacturers are applying Hybrid to the SUVs as they can charge more and also helps them with MPG. I doubt that the big 6 producers are benevolent and would allow a 100K unit market share go unchallenged.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    I know the Toyota and Honda hybrids are popular, but are they actually making money off them? My understanding was that they were initially selling them at a loss for both the goodwill / marketing and as an ongoing investment while they perfect the technology, with the thought that at some point they may be able to sell them for a profit.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    IIRC Honda was losing money but Toyota swears they don't.

    For dealers they are a cash cow, demanding MSRP or even higher, with wait lists. That alone establishes a lot of good will with your dealer network.

    -juice
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