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Comments
Since I have been looking at the RDX, I have been real interested in the MPG. I would like the MPG of any future vehicle to be no worse than my OB XT, and hopefully better. My 05 XT is rated 19/24 (07 models are 20/26) and I generally get 21 MPG in my mixed driving (which is heavily highway biased). On long trips I will get 24 MPG. Though I rarely do heavy city driving, I used the trip meter to get the avg MPG on a recent all-city sprint, and it was 12-16 MPG. These numbers are more or less inline with MPG numbers the RDX trip computer reported during one of my test drives.
The XT will do better than 24 MPG at reasonable highway speeds. Unfortunately, around here the flow is in the 70-80 mph range (I usually cruise in the middle at 72-75).
I think the RDX is a little smoother and quieter than my XT, but does have a stiffer ride. The XT's ride is a bit wallowy. So the vehicles are on different sides of what can be considered smooth. Most of the time the XT is just fine, but occasionally I wish it were a little more composed on rough/irregular roads. Comes down to the classic ride/handling tradeoff. The RDX falls on one side of the line, the XT the other.
If you can wait until next spring/summer, the 08 Outbacks will have some new features and refreshed styling inside and out -- you can see it now on the current 07 models in Japan. It remains to be seen if we will get the same bumpers however; in the past, the US Outback/Legacy models have always gotten longer, more obtrusive bumpers, presumably to satisfy US crash requirements. Either way, it will look different than the 05-07 styling.
Personally, I am always on the lookout for the perfect vehicle, and it's been hard to find. The OB XT is close, but I would like better MPG and slightly better handling.
Craig
Personally, I really like the V70R. It's pricey but I love the boxy styling, the Volvo comfort and the fact that it has room. However, what made me go to the LGT Wagon this time around was reliability. If you go to any of the Volvo enthusiast forums, you'll see quite a few alarming reports about major repairs in the powertrain that surface above the usual complaints you hear.
In contrast, the 2005+ OB/Legacy really haven't had any major problems. My 2005 LGT has had 33K miles without any major unscheduled maintenance.
I think Craig's advice to wait for the 2008 is a great one. The only downside is that I don't think the 2008 will offer you any more room.
Ken
I never even drove a 2.5L in the new body style since I disliked the 98's power so much.
Karl
I believe both the OB and Legacy got lighter with the 05 redesign, so an older Outback and newer Legacy would have a bigger weight difference.
The Audi A4 Avant 2.0T AT also comes close. It gets 22 and 30 with reports on the higher end of mileage (as opposed to the many reports on the RAV4 and OBXT under the EPA ratings). The Avant has great handling, ride and acceleration. You can get a cloth interior and CR recommends the A4 as it is average for repairs (not the case with the V70 or Saabs).
The Audi's downfalls are lack of huge luggage room (it is close to but less than the OB), little clearance, and a growl when accelerating (um, I don't cruise the strip anymore). I believe, it's price is comparable to the V70 and Sportcombi. Cloth/no sunroof and Leather/sunroof would go for around 31/32 with no tech toys. Lease rates are better than most other makes.
BTW, my Saab and new ones are noisy and the new ones (GM!) have poor reliability.
Hahaha... has Saab ever been known for anything but?
The clutch is good if you drive normally; if you launch it 50 times like i did, you'd be changing your clutch/flywheel/cover in your first 8,000mile(which i got for free from the dealer because of the goodwill policy).
Subaru does have bad wheel bearings; most of the time is the rear. Your front dont go bad unless you have negative camber or you hit the curb or something. But if you check out the 05+ STI, their rim pattern is now 5x114 instead of 5x100. The reason why they changed to that is to lower the stress level on the bearings.
Shifter problem can be fixed with a front shifter bushing + STI groupN tranny mount. After my tranny mount was on, every shift is smooth and weightless.
WRX Seats are meant to keep you still i guess, so not really comfortable, the 06+ newer legacys have wider seats, and the new 07 specB has better leather too. I sat in one and its great. But, my current 05 lgt leather seats are still good and i have a bad back; so if im not complainig.. i dont see a reason for improvments.. but i guess subaru did it anyway.
I think the only bad thing about the control is that the shifter gets in the way, other than that.. its alright.
Or maybe you are dating yourself. In the late 70's and early 80s, many Saabs had tranny and turbo problems. By the late 80s and early 90s, those cars were rock solid. I had an '89 900S with 135K on it - original engine, tranny, turbo, etc. and that was typical. That was a great car - turbo fast, held 3 mtn. bikes inside, and got 30 mpg averaging 75 mph. There was and is no car like it.
One of the Legacy wagon variants - the 2.5GT - may not re-appear for the 2008 model year, even though the sedan will still be available. The XT will be available though.
I would have preferred the Acura RDX, if I had a choice. It is a bit rich for my blood with current prices though and in comparison to other cars like the Legacy GT. Got to say that the handling is superb, though.
Judging by how poorly Saab vehicles hold their value, I would surmise the term "rock solid" applied to individual cars rather than models as a whole. You can love whatever car you prefer, but that does not make it the best car on the road.
But if Subaru does drop the LGT wagon from it's line up, I may need to look elsewhere for my next car.
Ken
But I digress...
Ken
Wesx, my term rock solid did not mean that the preGM 900s were similar to a Corolla in reliability. They were AVERAGE as Consumer Reports reported (not me). I just reported a great experience to back up CR. As Ken has pointed out, these cars did need a dermotologist but the engine, tranny, chassie, suspension and even electrical were quite dependable.
Saying there was no car like it does not mean that it was "the best car on the road." It means... that there was no other car like it.
Really like the A4. It was a 'finalist' when I bought the '05 VDC wagon. However, driver's seat was small-ish and the console really restricted my movment. Might look at it again.
OTOH, if $$ were no object, how do you feel about the A6 Avant? Or, BMW 3-series wagon. I know the dimensions, on the latter, are smallish - but, it 'fits' pretty nicely.
Peace.
This statement recalls me a joke.
Two new rich are talking. One boasts about his new Armani suit.
"I paid $ 1000.00 for it!" - first exclaims.
The other looks at him with pity an says:
"I went to Milan and bought the same for 2000.00".
It is not my fault that you had been had. I bought a set at AutoZone for 25.00.
Krzys
But they were not available at AutoZone in 2004
Perhaps not every owner will be able to find the correct replacement bulbs for specially numbered tail lights, etc. that VW uses...No as an engineer I did not have a problem.
As a past owner of at least twelve VW and Audi cars over many decades I can authoritatively warn those who don't know what to expect. They are great to drive but a problem to own. My patience just ran out.
OTOH, if $$ were no object, how do you feel about the A6 Avant? Or, BMW 3-series wagon. I know the dimensions, on the latter, are smallish - but, it 'fits' pretty nicely.
I feel the new Audi grille is an immense step backwards. It looks odd now and I think it will age even worse.
The new BMW 3 series is attractive but the BMW AWD drivetrain just seems much too complex. And the dealers are very, very proud of them.
You're far under the radar screen with an H6 OBW; many dollars ahead; and performance is very good once you lose the stock tires.
-juice
Ken
I must say that I think the A6 avant is one of the most striking vehicles I have seen - even with its snout. To each his/her own, I guess.
Juice, won't the A3 be as small, inside, as the A4?
Thanks.
Peace.
The earlier ones that used the 2.7 liter turbo engine will share the problems with that engine (discontinued by Audi with good reason).
I would not want to own a vehicle with an engine that is out of production.
Any bargain price on an Allroad will probably be increased by high routine maintenance and eventual catastrophic failures.
Actually, no, the A3 has a slightly larger interior than the A4. I (6', long legs) can sit in the back of our A3. Not so in the A4. The trunk in the A3 (with seats up) is pretty small though.
A lot of former S4 owners bought WRXs when those came out because of nightmarish issues with that engine.
Unless your best friend is an Audi mechanic or something.
-juice
RS, If you are thinking slightly used, is there such thing as a BMW 5 series AWD? (Not the piggy X5). The '01s and '02s 5 series were pre I drive, very reliable, have lots of room and are decently priced. I find 3 series beamers to be too snug. In any case, none of these cars will be as reliable or mountain cool as an OB. In general, I would probably only buy a Euro car new or lease it.
The biggest reason to get an A4 Avant is that the new Bond - Daniel Craig - drove an A4 with his mates in a uber hip gangster movie called Layer Cake. Very cool flick.
-juice
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
A Forester was actually the topic of converstation in the movie "In the Bedroom". A good flick if you haven't seen it.
-juice
Peace.
To Juice: There was a yellow hearse on Six Feet Under too. Maybe that might be the rig for RSOrganize.
That and TiVO. Hard to say which one I prefer.
How to bring this back on topic...hmm, oh, my kids watch DVDs on a laptop in the Subaru on road trips.
Boy that's a stretch!
-juice
will VDC be offered on all legacy models in 2008,non-turbo in particular, and will any new engines be in the works that can significantly improve gas mileage. my 2005 GT is getting 15mpg in the city, is this correct for the turbo,seems pretty low.
If you are in heavy city driving and/or drive somewhat aggressively at low speeds, then 15mpg is not out of the question. Are you going by the trip meter or your own calculations?
I am hoping they offer 5EAT and VDC across the line on 08 -- Subaru is conspicuously delinquent in this area.
Craig
Its a 2006 model. First off, this thing is seriously underpowered. I was driving down California 1 south from San Francisco (its beautiful, mountain road by the sea) and overtaking manouvers through short passing zones were quite scary. Thats not the way it should be. I could see an oncoming car, the pedal was mashed to the floor and yet I cudnt just get this thing to move!!
Second, it has the worst slushbox I have seen till date. Part of this may be because it is a 4-speed. I own a stick shift but typically all rentals (mostly Camry's, Sonatas occassionally Altimas, Taurus') are autos but they dont seem to make too much fuss and just do their job in the background. I leave them in drive and they do their job.
But this one firstly hung on to the gears a bit too long and then at the slightest blip of the throttle downshifted. If you are on the highway doing 65 and then just dial in a little more gas to go to 70, it will downshift. For the first time ever, I had to use the manual mode throughout the drive because the inbuilt logic was terribly messed up. Or maybe its just that the engine is underpowered and there are only 4 gears so they went in for some aggressive gearing. Whatever be, end result I thought was quite pathetic.
Finally, I thought stering feedback was non-existant. In corners, there should be increasing resistance as you turn more and go faster. But there was absolutely no increase in resistance irrespective of how much you were turning. There was constant power assist which made for a very wierd and scary ride.
My impression - may be this is a good compromise for off roading (which I didnt test) plus on roading but I can think of many many other vehicles which do the same better. Hence the title, unimpressed.
ps. I know you Subaru heads are loyal and all (I have a colleague who is a Subaru fanatic) but this was just an honest opinion. I have never driven Subarus before and I have nothing for or against them. Just stated what I observed!!
From what you described, you had the 4-spd auto in sport mode, which causes it to hold gears to higher RPM and downshift at the slightest throttle input. If you had it in normal mode, it would have done the opposite (which I don't necessarily like either). The transmissions have normal, sport, and manual modes. I presume you slid the lever past normal and into sport without knowing it.
Craig
That's the point. It's a great compromise vehicle. A lot better than any SUV I've driven. Plenty of cars that do fine on the tarmac, but I wouldn't want them off road. What I really appreciate is the reasonable fuel mileage and the space you get with the Outback, plus you can go almost anywhere in them. Honestly, I can't think of a better vehicle that combines reasonable power, good fuel mileage, good handling (compared to an SUV) and a lot of room. The rental cars you mentioned are not bad. If you don't need AWD and some ground clearance any of them are decent vehicles (except the Ford), especially with the six. The Subaru turbo and H6 are nice, but for me the fuel economy is too low, and you need higher grade fuel.
Interesting. The transmission is made by JATCO - who also makes several of the other auto transmissions mentioned.
If there was no steering feedback, the first thing to do is check tire pressure.
If you'll now excuse me, I'm now going to go rent a base model Toyota Celica and use it to haul several people and a bunch of gear up to a ski area. Then post about how unimpressed I am with the performance, steering, cargo capacity, bad weather capability, etc. Horses for courses....
When? Well, at my actual savings rate, maybe 2015. Until then, thanks god I have the OB. It'll keep me on track, not spending a lot on gas or maintenance. After buying the Cayenne, I'll spend the next 4 years of free maintainance and warranty, saving for the next OB, that is going to be the only car I'll afford after taking the big depreciation of my costly SUV.
Everything else has been plug and play so far, and I believe the mirrors are activated by the defrost button for the rear window or the defrost setting on the climate anyway, so I was wondering if these would be any different.
Thanks
There's no harness so you have to tap into the electrical system. Others have hooked a relay into the rear defroster harness so no additional dash switch is needed.
Apparently there are several types of mirrors available, including some that furl electrically sold JDM. Also the H6, XT, and GT have turn signals in the side mirrors.
Any thoughts? Seems like '04 reliability is pretty good. I do about 35,000/year, so the CPO is great. Still, do not want to spend excessive time in the repair shop.
Down to Saab Sportcombi Aero and OB XT Ltd in the dark gray (nice!). Have to decide by the weekend - since the dealer is buying back my MDX this week.
Peace.
It should be delightful to drive...comfort, handling and great looking. I'm surprised the price is not lower: A neighbor bought a 2005? Touareg with low miles recently for $26,000. They are comparable cars except the Touareg has a VW label and the utility of a (raised) wagon. The mpg of the A6 certainly would be better however!
Perhaps I should ask how much less than $30,000.