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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • nickelnickel Member Posts: 147
    Hands down a 2003-2005 Forester non turbo. Best car you can find used at that price. Just have checked the rear bearings, and that's it.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,199
    There was a news item just out... About a 16-yr-old getting pulled over doing 143 MPH in an Impreza... Because he was trying to make it home before his curfew... :surprise:

    Obviously, it was a WRX..

    My advice... NO WAY!!

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure I'd tempt an uber-responsible kid with that kind of horsepower until they have some experience behind the wheel. Plus there's insurance costs.

    Get something fuel efficient and slow. :D

    But then take them to a driving school of some sort. Teach them the skills before they get a performance vehicle.

    In summary, I'd wait 'til they had both experience and driving skills learned from a course before they could get such a car. All that only IF the child is responsible.

    -juice
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,759
    Yes, it is a tough call. One one hand, aside from your personal slant toward performance cars, you have the opportunity to purchase a great car at an exceptionally low price. Yes, the accident is cause for concern, but if you have driven/inspected it and it is of passing grade, then that should not inhibit the purchase by itself.

    The teen driver issue..... well, let me say that I was also an "uber-responsible teen," according to both my peers and parents (derision by one group, praise by the other), and I did take time out now and again to have fun in vehicles (still do, and expect I will as long as I drive). Granted, I never drove anything that was even borderline WRX, but the term *slow* does not exist for a teen - there are ways around slow. I learned quite a bit about how to handle an automobile, though, so other than one foolish instance (that I will keep to myself) I have no regrets about my driving during those years. So, most importantly, you have to remember that regardless of his level of reason and responsibility, he will still be a novice driver. A WRX *can* be a dangerous machine in the hands of a novice and I would be concerned first and foremost about my child's safety. It is not primarily irresponsibility that will get a child into trouble with a vehicle - it is inexperience. The combination can be deadly and only time will address either issue (but how much depends on the family involved).

    Insurance rates aside, I would not be opposed to entrusting my child with a performance car. I would, however, be very open with said child about the expectations and be prepared and willing to spend time and/or money to teach that child how to handle the vehicle appropriately before I first watch it drive away. Will he test its performance? Undoubtedly - why have it otherwise? Will he handle it responsibly and safely? That is your question to answer. Good luck! ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Congrats on your recent purchase. The A6 is a very nice vehicle.

    I am still trying to understand the purpose of the WRX for your own use. Will it be mainly for commuting or for fun? If for the former, you mention you are more comfort inclined -- if so, then why the WRX? While it is better appointed than an entry level compact, it's not going to be anything close to your A6.

    As for it's use as a hand-me-down for a teenage son, I would advise against it. Thinking about my own experience, the risk is when he rides with his other friends. A kid can be uber-responsible but that can rapidly degrade with peer pressure. Having a WRX is only going to invite more friends and spirited driving. I would heed to juice's recommendation of fuel efficient and slow!

    As for the car you are looking at -- I would not buy it unless I was able to get a trustworthy body shop to give it a look over. Air bag deployment, three major panels replaced --- sounds like it was a fairly moderate accident to me.

    If you were looking into a commuter car that was quiet and comfortable but still a Subie, how about a base Legacy sedan?

    Ken
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    according to the IIHS, the WRX sedan has the highest crash claims rate in its class! (it also has about the lowest injury claims which shows how safe it is when you do crash but thats another topic). teens will be teens and I see no reason why one should need that sort of power at that age. he may not break the speed limit but he will try to reach it quickly and that can be a problem for any inexperienced driver. my first car only had 60hp! my brother is a trauma surgeon and the first thing he said when he heard my 15 year old had her eye on my WRX was that I shouldn't even think about it!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Don't do it!
  • rsorganizersorganize Member Posts: 131
    This is a remarkable, incredible group! Came to the right folks/place....glad I did. Perhaps I should feel a bit silly about even raising the question; but, your responses are both thoughtful and respectful.

    I have been talking about this with my son. He gets our concerns. Indeed, I just showed him a listing for a 2000 Legacy GT Ltd, manual - 90K mi., less than $7000. He likes it and is interested. Add a spoiler and 5-speed and the teen mind can get around the vehicle. There are a couple of 9-2x Linears around, at reasonable prices that look good, too. We are also looking at a bunch of lesser-hp, sporty cars. I think we'll be OK - a sporty, appealing car...but, safe and less tempting.

    Don't know what I was thinking - it WAS fun to drive, though! Should be too old to be tempted, but maybe 57 is today's 27? (Hope so, in other ways!)

    Thanks, again.

    Peace.
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    LOL!

    Today 57 is entering your second childhood, and perhaps you are the one who should be buying it. Have fun! ;)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, I'll be 62 in 2 months, and I drive a 5-speed 2006 WRX Limited wagon—and love it!

    I concur completely about not letting your son loose on a performance car like the WRX. When my son turned 16, we got him a (then new) '96 Impreza Outback. It was a great (and safe!) car for him, and had it for 10 years. Last year, at age 27, he traded it for a new Outback Sport SE. He cross-shopped a number of cars, but the Subie's combination of AWD and high vehicle content won out in the end.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think we've all just heard too many stories of teens getting in trouble with a too-powerful car. The kid that lived across the street from my previous house totalled one of those lime green Mustang GTs.

    Though the Mustang actually looked better after the wreck. ;)

    -juice
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    Now, I have driven several WRX's. Like them, even though I am much more comfort-inclined - thus the A6. I realize the capacity they have - for speed - but, I didn't feel compelled to speed. Car seemed easily controllable. I put so many miles on my car, that - for the next 6+ months - I would use the car for moderate drives, hoping to save 5000 or more miles on the A6. WRX seemed OK as a commuter car, along with appeal - to the mature adult male that I am - to enjoy on the open road. Eventually, though it will be his. Nuts or what?

    Yes, it is. Set aside the issues of the car you're looking at. First, check your insurance - it will be astronomical - locally it's 50% higher than our OBW. Second, it becomes wearying for longer trips. Many Legacy GT owners have "graduated" from the WRX because of the better ride and 2.5l turbo.

    An Impreza RS is a nice small car that's reasonably quick and responsive, at a much lower cost.

    Of course, "A man convinced against his will - is of the same opinion still."
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Yes, I was told those same stories back in the 60's by my Dad. :P

    Welcome, you are now officially old. All of you. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My dad was smart and didn't give me anything too powerful. And when it rained or snowed I had to drive the Olds Custom Cruiser wagon. I think it weighed about 15,000 lbs so it was hard to brake traction in that thing. :D

    -juice
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    My 20-y/o daughter just got a new 2006 OB 2.5 Ltd 5-speed. Metallic Silver/Granite Gray. She had originally wanted to wait for a 2007, but when they discontinued the manny tranny for the Limited, she decided to go for a leftover. Took a bit of scouting around to find one in a color she liked, but she's thrilled. And now she appreciates having a clean driving record (no tickets or accidents) since she's paying her own insurance. Dad floated her a 3-month bridge loan until her junior year "[USAF] academy loan" becomes available in February ($30K at one percent - no payments until graduation in May 2008 - what a deal!). USAA negotiated the deal, and will be the loan-issuer in a couple of months. She's a big-time skier (I think everyone at the academy is), and has been on many adventures with our 2K OB, so she's excited about having her new freedom (it's her first car ever).

    We're going over the break-in and other maintenace topics (and the owner's manual) while she's here for the holidays - I'll actually get to see it next Labor Day when she (in a nice turn of events) picks US up at the airport!

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!

    Ken in (WAY too much weird WX to describe here) Seattle
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Sounds great, Ken! I always like seeing what the next model year will bring before making a purchase. Good thing she was able to find one - a little rare, but probably not too difficult to find in CO (or in WA!). That's a very nice first car. :D
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Ken-

    Sounds like a great deal for your daughter.

    Congrats, by the way on her being in the USAF Academy. Many, many moons ago I tried to get into there but I wasn't "smart enough", although I was accepted academically at West Point instead. Unfortunately, due to an early childhood sickness I wasn't fit enough.

    Then again if I had made it I probably would not have met my wife nor the Subaru crew.

    Mark
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    One of the best benefits of being a military officer is USAA.
    They do a great job.
  • bobny57bobny57 Member Posts: 30
    My 2005 Subaru Outback XT is coming up to the 30 month mark with about 20,000 miles. The ownership manual calls for a major service. It looks like oil, filter, air filter, antifreeze. I'll also spring for new windshield wipers all around. Of course the tires will be rotated as well.

    Questions: Am I missing anything? Were there any recalls? I've been servicing the car at my trusty local mechanic who I like. Would it be wise to use the Subaru dealer for this "major" service?

    Thanks folks and have a happy New Year.

    Bob in Valley Stream, Long Island
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Hi Bob. My advice would be to use your regular mechanic, or do it yourself. As long as you stick to the book and keep receipts, you will be OK. Sounds like you have been doing fine so far.

    Unfortunately, Subaru dealers often pad the major services with extra work and end up charging many hundreds of dollars too much. I did the 30K service on my 05 OB XT at home for about $50 in parts/fluids. Took a couple of hours.

    Craig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The battery just died today at 2.5 yrs / 35,500 miles!! It has been fine until today, in fact I made several trips this morning and no issues. I stopped for gas on the way home and the car would not start again. I was able to get a jump and make it home, but it's definitely dead -- not charging at all. I called the Subaru dealer and they will not be able to get me a new battery until next Thursday because of the Monday holiday, so I may just break down and get a battery from WalMart then argue with Subaru 1-800 to cover the cost. The car is still under the 3/36 warranty and the battery should have lasted longer than this.
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I need to read my manual but I thought it was not uncommon for batteries to carry a separate, shorter warranty than rest of the car. Maybe not??

    While not widespread, I have heard of batteries dying in the second year of ownership.

    If it is excluded from the bumper to bumper I would just bite the bullet and buy a new one. If it is not excluded, I think you would have grounds for reimbursement. I think it would be unfair to expect you to go a week without a new battery.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Believe it or not, Bob, I think wipers are covered 'til 36k miles under the wear item warranty, so you may ask the dealer to take care of them next time you're in their vicinity. Anyone else confirm/deny?
  • smittynycsmittynyc Member Posts: 289
    I can confirm to the extent that at either my 15K service or my 18K oil change, the dealer replaced my blades and the receipt carried a notation that it was warranty work.

    I'm also fairly certain that the battery warranty is outside of Subaru's purview.
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    New Subarus have a 3/36 bumper-to-bumper warranty. The 05's that burned up headlights had them replaced as well.
  • phelps2phelps2 Member Posts: 13
    Hi all,

    I am suddenly shopping for a new car after being blindsided from the side in my old Accord on a highway - totalled as a result. I hadn't thought much about what I want. I may go back to the Accord, but am interested in comments on the Outback 2.5i as an alternative. I have a 50 mile highway commute a few days a week, and do some distance driving (1-2 hours each way) for work. Critical questions:

    What is the real world mileage like, particularly on the highway?
    How is the comfort for a tall person? I'm 6'2" and have some disc issues that lead to lower and neck back pain.
    How is it as a highway commuting car?

    The Accord was a good and cheap to maintain car, but I am interested in something a little less boring but with good reliability (I push cars to the 200,000 mile range) and safety - Outback a good alternative?

    Thanks,

    Phelps
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    I think the 2.5i would be a good choice for a 50-mile daily commute. I'd suggest you seriously consider the manual transmission (available on the Wagon and Basic Wagon, but not the Limited) for optimal mileage and performance. I've had the 2.5 manual for six years, and I'd estimate that you'll get mid- to upper-20s for that sort of commute, depending on your driving style and the particulars of the commute. I get lower 20s for around-town driving, and 30 plus or minus a bit for long-range highway trips. Reliability has been excellent (with regular periodic maintenance).

    Good luck.

    Ken in (sunny!!) Seattle
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I am on my third Outback. Good car all the way around, and compares favorably to Honda in many ways. You definitely should do a test fit though -- I am 6'1" and have the seat all the way back. I can see how it might start to get tight (legroom) for taller folks.

    Craig
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    You may note that Subaru seats seem hard at first sitting. Mine (on a model with leather seats) have proven excellent for my somewhat problematic back. I am 6 feet tall and do not have the seat all the way back in my Outback 3.0R VDC.

    With my six cylinder mpg is only ok; my previous four was significantly better in town.

    Expect excellent reliability similar to your Honda experience. My experience other than with a knock sensor problem on an earlier Legacy was zero problems. I do have the oil changed often.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I'm on my 4th Subaru (2 Outbacks, 2 Legacies). All have been reliable, and are extremely safe. I can second the other comments about the gas mileage. My Outback 3.0R has loads of oomph, but gets low 20s mileage on mostly highway drives. While less than the 3.0, my Legacy 2.5i sedan has plenty of power and it's possible to achieve over 30 MPG with mostly highway driving and no stomping on the pedal. The Outback's heated seats may feel great on your back, too. :)

    Have you considered a Legacy 2.5i wagon? Virtually same as the Outback, but different suspension, no body cladding, and a few less features. If you're sticking to on-pavement driving, Legacy's a better handler and rider, I think. Rides a couple inches lower. Couple thousand less, too.

    In fact, you could get a Legacy 2.5i Limited (heated seats/mirrors, 6-disc CD, nice leather interior, huge moonroof, dual zone climate control, power seat, fog lights) for only about $500 more than a standard Outback. I guess that'd be my recommendation if you're doing highway driving all the time - go for a Legacy 2.5i Limited wagon - that much time in a car deserves some creature comforts. Oh, Legacy wagon is also rated 2MPG greater than Outback on the highway.
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    What is the real world mileage like, particularly on the highway?
    How is the comfort for a tall person? I'm 6'2" and have some disc issues that lead to lower and neck back pain.
    How is it as a highway commuting car?

    The Accord was a good and cheap to maintain car, but I am interested in something a little less boring but with good reliability (I push cars to the 200,000 mile range) and safety - Outback a good alternative?


    We had two 97 4 cyl OB wagons and now have a 05 Accord V6 and 06 Outback 3.0 wagon.

    I'm 6'2. Some people fit. Some don't. Take a lengthy test drive. Honda Accord seats (we have an 05) are really good and wider than the Subaru.

    A Legacy sedan is EPA 19/25, the Outback sedan 22/28. It's a relatively heavy car and has AWD, so they're not great on fuel economy compared to FWD cars. A V6 Accord gets better mileage and is a lot quicker and more relaxed on the highway in our use. Subaru only puts the 5 speed auto in the H6 and turbo models. The Outback is higher and more air passes underneath, so high speed highway cruising isn't conducive to good mileage.

    The 4 cyl is relaxed on easy highway cruising compared to other 4 cyl cars. Acceleration is worse than almost any other sedan on the road. The H6 is much more powerful and guieter, but doesn't get great mileage - I've had a few tanks of 26 commuting, but it's usually less.

    The 95-99 DOHC 2.5 engines had major problems with blowing headgaskets. A disturbingly high percentage of these vehicles blew their headgaskets but SOA steadfastly denied there was a problem. The dealer service managers know better. A Google search for "subaru head gasket problem" will put it in perspective.

    Now some of the 2000-2004 SOHC cars are also popping them. SOA has extended the warranty for the 2000-2004 cars to 100,000 miles for head gaskets but is still bitterly, harshly, endlessly, roundly criticized for the way they have handled this problem on enthusiast forums.

    By 150,000 miles you'll be doing a lot of maintenance. In fairness, AWD cars are heavier and more complex and will always cost more for maintenance. And the Subaru AWD system works well, with comparatiely few problems.

    I bought another new Subaru in 2006 (with the 6 cylinder engine) but this was in spite of SOA, who treats American customers like they're idiots.
  • famof3kidsfamof3kids Member Posts: 160
    I agree, SOA has a problem with these head gaskets, and they better come forward and fix/notify owners/etc. quickly. Just had my headgasket replaced on my 2003 Leagacy with only 42,000 miles! :sick:

    But, other than this one problem, the car has been relatively trouble free. So, still like my fourth Suby in 15 years!

    Mark
  • phelps2phelps2 Member Posts: 13
    Have you considered a Legacy 2.5i wagon?

    Thanks for the detailed responses everyone! The Legacy would be a good option, but I hate Monnroffs (both because of the impact on headroom, and because it is simply a feature I dislike and never use.

    Phelps
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    If you want better gas mileage - get the Legacy sedan. Sedans will always get better MPG on the highway than an equivalent wagon due to less weight and much less drag.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The '05 Legacy 2.5i wagon base 5spd has been getting 29-31 in the summer and fall. Its been to the dealer for oil changes (they gave us coupons). A hitch on the back supports a bike rack and an occassional uHaul trailer (up to 2700 lbs, 1700lbs more than the Honda).
    Visibility is excelent in the wagon.
    Eh, I really can't think of anything bad to say about it. It used a little bit of oil the very first oil change but hasn't used any since. Bun warmers would've been nice, as would've heated mirrors/wipers maybe, but they are included in the next model.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    If you want better gas mileage - get the Legacy sedan. Sedans will always get better MPG on the highway than an equivalent wagon due to less weight and much less drag.

    However, they are rated exactly the same from the EPA. I guess YMMV.
  • nickelnickel Member Posts: 147
    The OB seats aren't the most comfortable ones. I'm 5'8" and I couldn't see myself fitting if taller. Make your mind because no one is going to fit behind your seat, not even my small 4 years old daughter. But then, nothing is better than a Subie for the snow, handling is great, and reliability is superior. Then, check a Tribeca. You can get an '06 for a big discount, has a really nice interior and everybody will fit on the front and middle seats. You're going to spend $400 more a year in gas, but in a nicer way.
  • smittynycsmittynyc Member Posts: 289
    I'm having trouble visualizing this -- I'm 6-3, with a 34" inseam and 36" sleeves, and I have my seat only probably about 2/3 of the way back (2007 Legacy). Similarly sized people can sit behind me easily. I also think the seats are very comfortable.

    I guess it speaks to the fact that the original poster really should take an extended test drive, if possible. You won't really know how you'll fit in a vehicle otherwise.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Anyone have anything to share with respect to Subaru's SI-Drive system introduced on some 2007 Legacy and Outback models? Specifically, the real-world effect on MPG, performance, drivability, "feel", etc... Do you consider SI-Drive a worthwhile feature or a gimmick?

    Thanks!
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    In the USA it's only available on the turbos.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I originally pegged it as a gimmick, but it did allow the EPA mpg ratings to bump up to 20/26 for the Outback XT 5EAT, up from the previous 19/24. So that's good. The manual trans model improved as well -- I think it is rated 27 mpg highway now.

    My only gripe is the placement of the SI drive knob, which knocked the power seat controls from their central location to a much less convenient location closer to the driver, and the controls are smaller now too. We use the power seat controls a lot, far more than I would be adjusting the SI drive knob, so it's a dumb setup if you ask me. That aspect of SI drive is definitely gimmicky. They should put the SI drive knob somewhere else.
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    ????

    Where are your power seat controls? On my 06 3.0R they are on the outboard portion of the seat, just like most other manufacturers.

    Karl
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Ahhhh, too much coffee this morning! I meant HEATED seat controls.
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Duh. If I had thought about it, I probably would have figured that out.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's a good one, a close friend helped develop the US implementation of it. It's similar to getting a stage 1 on Cobb or Utec from the factory. Won't be giving you too much control but more than zero.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd also get the brakes flushed at 30k.

    -mike
  • cusafrcusafr Member Posts: 184
    I am looking at a 2006-Outback-LLBean Wagon. Can anyone tell me if there is any significant difference between the 06/07? I can get the 06 for about $2,000 less than the 07.

    Thanks,

    CUSAFR
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The 07 gets VDC stability control (important) and an aux-in for the stereo (nice if you have an iPod). I believe they also have an XM option now. Everything else is pretty much unchanged or minor. VDC is the big change in my opinion.

    By the way, there was also a slight price drop for 07, so they are actually a better value compared to the 06.

    You should be shooting for far more than a $2K difference on the 06 model. I have seen 07 models going for heavy discounts already.
  • cusafrcusafr Member Posts: 184
    Thanks c-hunter. I did not relaize the VDC is in the 07 but not 06. Yes, that would be nice. I don't care about the other two items.

    When I say $2,000 difference, I am comparing the selling price of an 07 from Fitzmall against the price of the 06.

    CUSAFR
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    That's cool you knew someone who was part of the SI Drive development. I thought it switched throttle and (for autos) transmission maps on the fly, but not necessarily the engine map like Cobb AP.

    Ken
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