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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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    rptdcrptdc Member Posts: 2
    I am looking at a 2007 Legacy Wagon (Not Outback) with a 4 speed AT.

    Can anyone let me know what they are getting on highway and in town 'calculated' mileage?

    Thanks!
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I'm getting about 24 city/30 hwy on my '06 Legacy sedan w/10k miles (same engine, trans & EPA ratings as the '07 wagon). Have achieved as high as 33mpg hwy on a 3-hour highway trip. Very pleased to be consistently at or above EPA ratings with an engine that's barely broken in.

    Mileage really seems to vary by individual car & driver, though.
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    smittynycsmittynyc Member Posts: 289
    I've had my 07 Special Edition wagon for about three months. There are 27XX miles on the clock, and the trip computer shows a lifetime 23.8 mpg. This is with the California emissions engine (although I think the mileage is 23/30 for all AT Legacy/OB wagons).

    That's probably 70% city miles, 30% highway. Granted, I haven't driven it with AC yet, but it seems to get much better city mileage than my 04 Forester did -- 19-20 mpg in heavy city driving so far. In the summer in really bad traffic, I could dip as low as 16 mpg with the Forester.

    However, on the highway, I haven't come close to the advertised 30 mpg, and I'm skeptical that it's even possible unless you're keeping it at 55-60 and using the cruise. I'm usually at the flow of traffic -- 75 or so -- and I've either got the transmission in "sport" mode or use the manumatic if I'm on one of the hilly highways around here. The best I've gotten is probably something like 27 mpg.

    Hopefully overall mpg will improve a skosh as the engine seasons some more. Overall, I'm extremely happy with the vehicle. We just had some lousy weather here the last couple of weeks, and it handled it well, and it's a blast to drive. And even though there are tons of Subies around here, you don't see that many Legacy wagons, which I like (and after the 07 model year, there won't be any Legacy wagons, period!).
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    cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    looking at the 07 Subaru Outback brochure it says the XT has a higher road clearance than all the other OBs. Why??
    Also besides the Si drive (and different engines) it seems the XT seats while also being "sporty" does not have the heated seats. Is that correct?
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    blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Hi All,
    I am considering a new 2007 Outback with TPMS. Can I run snow tires & plain rims from Tirerack without sensors?

    Any difficulty with car or dealer? I don't want to pay dealer to "reset" sensors each spring. Can I just ignore flashing light in the winter and reinstall stock rims each spring?

    Thanks!
    Matt
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I had an XT and always wondered about the ride height difference myself. Not sure why.

    Except for the 2.5i basic model, all Outbacks have heated seats.

    The XT seats are firmer and more bolstered than the seats in the other trim levels.

    Craig
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Might not hurt to ask the folks at Tire Rack for advice on that -- I am sure they have more experience with it. I know a lot of Subaru owners do run winter tires/wheels without the sensors, and the main issue seems to be ignoring the light.

    On some Hondas, you are not allowed to turn off stability control (VSA) when the warning is triggered, which could be an issue since often times is is beneficial to turn off VSA in low speed deep snow driving. Not sure if there are side issues like that with Subaru. Only the LLB and XT models have stability control anyhow.

    Craig
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    willocwilloc Member Posts: 19
    I always figured the H6 and XT models used the same springs - and since the H4 engine weighs less, the ride height increases accordingly?
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Sounds reasonable to me, though the LLB model is only 35lb heavier than the XT Ltd.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Maybe you can just order up 4 more sensors. That's what my buddy did on his nissan.

    -mike
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    What's the lowest part under the OB, the exhaust system? Could the XT's be somehow unique and just happen to allow that extra 1/3" ground clearance? I don't have much tech knowledge, but it seemed at least plausible. Anyone?
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    blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    I heard that the sensors run $75 each and that they all have unique ID's (so as not to pick up data from other nearby by Subie's). This would require a trip to the dealer each spring and fall to recalibrate (more $$$).

    Tirerack indicates that the OE sensors are required and they will not mount tires on rims for the 07 Bean. However, if you add tires and rims to the shopping cart, they still give the option of mount and balance.

    I like to do my own tire rotations and I am cheap, so looking for the thrifty solution! :-)

    I just want to make sure TPMS is a stand alone system and NOT tied into ECU.

    Matt
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Matt,

    I am with you on the home maintenance!

    I logged into the Subaru owner's site and looked at the manual for the 07 Outback. Didn't see any side effects of no TPMS sensors like I see mentioned for our Acuras. So it appears Subaru doesn't tie VDC/etc. into TPMS. I did learn two interesting tidbits: 1) the receiver for TPMS is under the driver's seat apparently (didn't say if it was inside or outside the car), because they warn not to put metal objects under there that would block the signal. 2) the sensors don't send signals until the vehicle hits 20mph.

    Craig
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it's the exhaust, too. Or the front cross member hangs a little lower on the H6 models.

    -juice
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    steveb10steveb10 Member Posts: 13
    When I check the oil on my '06 Outback 2.5, I always wait overnight so the engine is cold. Car is dead level. Every time I pull the oil dipstick out I get another reading. Half full on one side of the stick, full on the other etc. It's like the oil gets scraped off when withdrawing the stick. Anybody else have this problem? I
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    michaelncmichaelnc Member Posts: 14
    Bought my first Subaru about a month ago! Very pleased with the car and I especially appreciate all of the postings. I read about 1/2 of them prior to visiting the dealership, so I knew in advance what I wanted and what to expect. Thanks to all of you and Edmunds!

    I got an '07 Legacy 2.5i SE, 4EAT, satin white pearl (really nice color!); spoiler, splashguards, auto-dim/compass mirror; armrest extension and all-weather mats (some items were already included and some I requested-had to do a dealer trade to get a SE-none on lot!)

    Like I mentioned earlier, I am pleased with the car, but I do have a few gripes:
    1)limited paint color options and the interior color is automatically selected by Subaru :( Black is too dark and taupe is too light (I'll just have to deal with that.)
    2) Glovebox is too small, but the trunk and back seat seem fine for my use
    3) Oil filter is surrounded by exhaust manifold-must let it cool or risk burns to change the oil
    4) Visors are too thick-my garage clicker pops off every few days (I didn't know that I needed the Homelink mirror!)
    5) Low TW rating Yokohama tires-160 is a joke. I know they handle well and ride fine, but I'm going to have to replace within the year! I'm a Yokohama fan, but these are just not proper for mission of the base car.
    6)Make stability control and steering wheel audio controls available on the base car
    7)Why can't I turn the headlights off. Believe it or not, Subaru, there are times when I want to turn them off. (Like pulling into the garage, late at night.) I think DRL's are fine, I just want to be able to defeat at times.

    Likes/Kudos
    1) Great value for $-AWD is a bonus!! 175 hp is adequate for me. I knew not to even test-drive a turbo. :D
    2) Very good gas mileage on regular fuel-7 hr. round trip with 1500 miles on engine yielded 29.7 mpg (30.6 on display)
    3) Spin-on transmission fluid filter and drain plug on pan-all cars should have this
    4) Build quality/interior/exterior design-looks and feels like it should cost much more than it did

    Sorry for the extra long post :) I only have about 4500 posts to read until I'm caught up.

    Regards,

    Mike
    Hickory, NC
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    samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    You should not check the oil when the engine is cold - oil will have very thick consistency and you will get unreliable readings. After shutting the fully warmed up car off, wait five minutes, then check the oil.
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    michaelncmichaelnc Member Posts: 14
    One more gripe:
    1) Steering is a little overboosted. I prefer firmer steering, but it's not a big deal.

    Likes (addtl.)
    1) Dual chrome exhaust tips (probably no real need for the NA engine, but they look nice!)
    2) Glovebox integrated into dashboard-only one seam (on the left)-nice curve with the upper dash (still too small though)
    3)MPG/trip computer-helps me try to get even better MPG

    It may have been mentioned in one of the post I haven't read yet, but this morning I needed to check the odometer, but didn't have the keys, so I just pushed the odo button and it lit up along with the fuel gauge! Super detail :)

    Mike
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    check the tires, many times the dealer forgets to air down the tires to the proper psi. they come from the factory over inflated to prevent flat spotting. that over inflation can sometimes contribute the "loose" or over boosted steering feel.

    -Brian
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    zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I have posted on this before.

    I think the current OB's suck in this regard. I just changed my oil this afternoon. I put in a full 6 quarts rather than the 5.8 that is recommended for the 3.0. There was not any oil on the dipstick when I checked it the first time. This was after letting the vehicle run for several minutes and it was measured on a flat surface. And I did verify that there were no oil leaks.

    I will let it sit overnight before I check it again. I have always found it difficult to measure the oil level with the dipstick. I have found it to be a more accurate measurement after letting it sit overnight.

    Karl
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Always check when cold, as the way the boxer engines sit, you will get a bad read as the oil tends to stay in the passages for a long while after running, or so i've been told.

    -mike
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    clarkkentclarkkent Member Posts: 154
    Anyone know the ground clearance for the Leacy wagon? Its 8+" for the Outback. Subaru does not advertise it for the Leacy. Must be pretty low.

    Thanks, CK
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    smittynycsmittynyc Member Posts: 289
    It's 5.9 inches for the wagon (it's listed under "dimensions" off the model page on Subaru.com).
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    "7)Why can't I turn the headlights off. Believe it or not, Subaru, there are times when I want to turn them off. (Like pulling into the garage, late at night.) I think DRL's are fine, I just want to be able to defeat at times."

    Turn the headlight switch off to activate the DRLs only, then lift the parking brake handle up to the first "click" (it won't engage the brake) to de-activate the DRLs. :shades: Pretty cool trick from my salesperson.

    "4) Visors are too thick-my garage clicker pops off every few days (I didn't know that I needed the Homelink mirror!)"

    You can still add the Homelink mirror - I think it's "plug-n-play", so would be easy to install yourself if you wanted.

    Congrats on the new Legacy, Mike! The SEs are a lotta bang for the buck! (I've got an '06.) :)
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Disable the DRLs there are a few sites that tell you which connection to pull. :)

    -mike
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Meh... me, I like 'em. :) Don't want 'em off all the time, just like to turn 'em off in the drive-thru, inching forward in traffic for a long time, etc.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I disable the DRLs on my subies and then leave my light in the "on" position all the time. If I want them off I turn them off. If you leave them in the "on" position they turn off with the car anyway.

    -mike
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,796
    That's the way I prefer as well. I have done the e-brake trick momentarily a time or two, but the times I used it (during low speed situations), I noticed the brake did ever-so-slightly engage, so probably not a good long-term solution as this would somewhat reduce the effectiveness of the brake. I was thinking about installing an over-ride switch within the mechanism there so that I could switch off the DRL without actually engaging the e-brake lever. But, I do not want to disable it outright yet since I still am leaning towards dumping this car in the near future. Who knows, the next owner may not prefer the DRLs be disabled! :)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    just noticed at Nabisco that someone has posted the model specs/colors for 08 and there is indeed a God! there is a OB 2.5iLTD with VDC available for 08!!! Too bad about the lousy colors again!!
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I'm posting the '08 Legacy & Outback model chart in the Future Models II thread:

    Subaru Crew - Future Models II
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice to see VDC with the N/A 2.5l. But even on the LTD models, they list both so it must be an option. :mad:

    They're not doing enough, this is very frustrating.

    -jucie
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,796
    At least a decent red is back in the line up. I will enjoy seeing that color on the road, even if it is not on my car. :sick:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Bob has seen that bronze color in person - maybe he can describe it. I'd think it's more brown than red.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,796
    :( Oh. I suppose I should not care all that much since I have mostly decided the Subaru is not in the running for any of my future dollars, but old habits are hard to break.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Discuss your thoughts. Daily driver with some HPDE events.

    -mike
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Don't want to include the 6sp MT in the Spec B? The 2.5L H4 turbo probably does have more STi parts available if you were wanting something to upgrade later. The 5sp MT has been labeled weak by some but it seems to hold up fine. Is the 5sp AT prefered for your daily driving and the HPDE's?

    -Brian
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Spec B I think is over priced for what you get. Yeah you get the suspension, aluminum parts and the 6MT and R180 rear but I'm not planning on upgrades other than brakes and suspension so don't really need the HD trans and rear.

    I'd prefer a MT but would get the 3.0R if the engine is strong in it. I miss my SVX 3.3L H6 :(

    -mike
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I agree it is too pricey. Haven't driven the H6 since the previous Outback, but it does have slightly less torque than the 2.5L turbo. Too bad the new Tribeca engine isn't trickling down to the other models yet.

    I'd probably favor the 3.0R though in this case. Probably easier to keep the power in control than the turbo. Though you really don't need the VDC when HPDE'ing.

    -Brian
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I guess we'll see what the pricing looks like. I like the idea of the 3.0R but I have a bad feeling it will be priced out there. If it's more than 4k more than the LGT then I'll just get the LGT.

    -mike
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The LGT is kinda a big car for HDPE stuff, which isn't to say its not doable or fun. There was a guy that used to run his late 90s Maxima out there when we were all in SE-R Classics.

    I would prolly go for the lightest car with the manual trans. Heat kills auto trans and the whole idea of most corses is that you speed up and slow down, which makes for a lot of shifting, making a lot of heat for an auto.

    It seems the firmer suspension of the spec B would help, but I dunno if the cost is more than what a good set of shocks and springs would be aftermarket anyway. 6th won't help on the track really anyway, and sometimes its nicer to have 3rd and 4th be a little taller anyway so you can stay in 3rd on some of the sweepers instead of going to 4th.

    I also like the way modern turbos work on a track. You really don't drop enough revs to get under the boost anyway, so that lil thing is spinning its heart out the whole time.

    I would lean towards the LGT 5spd man.
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I took it as it was a daily driver with a little HPDE use. Mike has a dedicated track car already.

    -Brian
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Brian you are correct. It'll be for HPDE events where I don't want to hitch up the trailer and lug the race Legacy to the track. The legacy isn't a big car for HPDE by any means. I recently instructed an SRT8 Charger and that was big!

    As Brian said mostly daily driver with some track use. As for the heat from an AT, I'd put a trans cooler on it like I did in my SVX and it should be fine, worst case I'll have a 100k warranty on it :)

    -mike
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I guess size is relative. At my first HDPE, there were a group of Impala SSs there as well as an MR2 group. I think if you have a dedicated track car anyway, its less of an issue. Its just a matter of going for what you want to live with on a daily basis.
    I personally would still lean to the LGT 5MT, its just more fun for me.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm leaning toward the LGT 5MT as well mostly because it'll be 5-7K cheaper I would think.

    -mike
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    rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    Spec B is over-priced.
    3.0R is linear in acceleration, but not as much fun as the turbo rush.
    GT is a decent daily driver.
    While I prefer the MT, I am not sorry I got the Auto.
    Go for the GT and use the money saved for mods.

    my .02 Rob M - 05 LGT LTD Auto
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup pretty much what I'm looking at Rob. This tying in the $2k GPS units to the car is ridiculous. Then again making the 6MT a "special" only option is pretty poor as well considering that 6MTs are fairly common on most cars these days!

    If it were up to me give me the VDC and 6MT as available options or standard equipment across the board on the turbo cars. Let the NA cars stick with the 5MT and no VDC.

    -mike
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    kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    Hi, Juice,

    You're the only Teixeira I've ever "known" - so were you the guy quoted in the March 13th Wall Street Journal article about buying cars online?

    Just so you know - we West Coast tech freaks watch this stuff carefully!

    Ken in (mercifully dry and fairly warm) Seattle
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, I got a print edition of it, plus it was on-line. Let me check...

    Yeah, found it, but you have to subscribe. If you do, just search for "teixeira" and the article pops up. :shades:

    paisan: I say L-GT, 07. The Tribeca is getting a bigger H6, so if the Legacy follows, you'll have the orphan car with less torque. If it got the 3.6l then I might feel differently, but the turbo is quicker and cheaper.
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    garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    looking at the 07 Subaru Outback brochure it says the XT has a higher road clearance than all the other OBs. Why??

    Exhaust routing.

    Actually the ground clearance down the center is close to 10" on any OB. The lowest point I measured was at the rear suspension.
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    kronogoosekronogoose Member Posts: 116
    Can anyone outline the major (or minor) changes between the 2005 Legacy GT and the 2006 model? Is there a website that lists the changes?

    Thanks,

    Greg
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