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Comments
2006 GS: 3.0 and 4.3 engines (245/300)
2006 IS: 2.5 and 3.0 (200/245) (CAN'T HAVE A BIGGER ENGINE THAN THE GS, so when the GS gets the 3.5, the IS will too)
2006 RX: new 3.0 along with hybrid 3.3 (245/270) (Lexus already said it was a hybrid 3.3 and it probably costs a lot of money to adapt an engine to electric motors so the hybrid 3.0 will probably only appear in 2009, when the RX is redesigned OR the normal 3.3 is kept until 2009 along with the hybrid until they change for the 3.0 and hybrid 3.0
2007 ES: new 3.0 (245)
2007 LS: new 4.6 (350)
2007 GS: new 4.6 (350)(they said they wanted to keep the attention of everybody in adding a new feature to their car every year, like the Infiniti G35 so the 3.5 V6 could appear in the mid-cycle refresh)
2008 IS: upgrade 2.5, new 3.5 (220/280)
2008 GS: new 3.5 (280) (keeping the attention)
2006 Avalon: 3.5 (280)
2006 Highlander: new 3.0 along with hybrid 3.3 (245/270) (OR same thing than the RX)
2007 Camry: 4L 2.5 and V6 3.0 engines (180/245)
2007 Solara: 4L 2.5 and V6 3.0 engines (180/245)
2007 Sienna: new hybrid 3.0 (280 or more with Corolla economy)
If you have other suggestions just tell them so that the list becomes perfect at the end
That is why using it on the GS make sense for Toyota because the share volume with Crown in Japan.
Interestingly, for the ES in Japan, which called Windom, it still have 3000cc instead of 330 in U.S. There must be some sort of tax benifit to stay below 3000cc. That is maybe one of the reason GS use that engine. Output is 256 in Japan instead of 245 here.
This direct injection engine seems to be able to run 27mph for the athlete. A V6 with I4 mileage and no hybrid. maybe that is the selling point? 232 ft-lb of torque @ 3400 rpm, litter higher than current, 245hp, a little higher than current.
On that note, we don't even know if the 3.5L V6 in the GS350 is the same 3.5L V6 as in the Avalon. The GS350 might have a tweaked up version of the 3GR-FSE. Worth a thought...
This high output 3.5L Avalon engine makes everything muddy and seems upside down. It seems in Japan, all Toyota models are overlapping. That seems to be the same deal here soon. IS 250, 350 vs GS 300, 430, the only way to position models when you have so many.
That said, I am thinking of trading in the tl and buying a certified lexus gs. My question for all of you, will I need to move up to the 430 as I am now used to the tl Horse power (although torque is not that amazing}. If anyone has experience with this I would appreciate your help. I have not had the chance to drive the 430 or re drive a 300 and compare yet. Any other cars I should be thinking of? New Rl does nothing for me, new gs and M are to expensive for me.
Thanks a lot
Mechrad
I love the green guages and dash. This car is a performer, bold and brash, and outstanding used car buy, as quality has always been high, and resale value are surprisingly low. A smart choice!
BTW, my sources tell me the hybrid 2007 GS, the GS450h, will be at the NYIAS!
DrFill
I asked about rumors concerning the GS350 and he said he has only ever seen GS300 in print from Lexus but a 3.5L was possible while mentioning the upcomming Avalon 3.5L.
DrFill
The larger question, to me, is why Lexus is releasing the 3.5L in Japan and NOT the 3.0L ? And if the 3.5L is already available for use in a Lexus, why not release it here as well ? Yeah, yeah, I have heard the arguments of the incremental 18-month changes, but why release a motor that has been available 3+ years old in Japan as a *new* engine here in the world's biggest auto market ???
The 3.5L already has 270hp in the FWD Avalon, even if Lexus detunes it for the GS, maybe it comes out at ~250-260hp, that is still pretty close to the 300hp 4.3 motor. However, I'd assume that if Lexus pairs the 3.5L with the 4.3L in Japan this August, the 4.3L may have to be upped a tad to make the hp spread meaningful.
Any pricing released for the two GS trims yet ?
~alpha
It is my understanding that the 530i will be replaced by a 535i with aprox. 275HP.
I wonder how often makers look into the crystal balls of their competition?
I would go with three engines like Audi and BMW have , 245HP, 285, 340-350HP.
Pricing is key. One thing Lexus does want to do is make the V8 model more popular, as 90% of the GS sales are V6 (inline).
They should go back to what worked for them with the LS and "buy" market share, and severely underprice the car, and force people to buy it on value, then make the money back later with repeat business and higher prices down the road.
I would go $37,900 to start, and under $45k for the V8, loaded no more than $51k or so, similar to 1998 pricing.
A 525i is $42k, stripped! A E320 is what, $48k?
Lexus is making BANK on their other models. Bite the bullet with this one. The ES has plenty of happy customers in the pipeline. The IS pricing is pretty much static. The RX is a freight train of profit, so they can make it work at a discount. Squeeze the dealers a little bit on their margins.
Lexus needs BODIES in this range! If as nothing else, to hold buyers away from the comp. The ES and LS will give them profits, with people either going for a high margin, loaded ES, or a LS, which at over 30k units sold last year, has become THE hottest luxury large car around. No invoice deals there.
DrFill
Lexus needs to understand that they sold like 50 GS300's in 2004. MSRP of $51,000 for a loaded GS300AWD is too much, they will need to discount the car. Infiniti will definitely discount, due to the M's previous lackluster sales. Its a great time to buy a luxo AWD car. This debut is their only shot at denting MB & BMW. And look out for Infiniti. My backup plan...stroll into the Acura dealer in May/June and get a Acura RL at invoice.....
Lexus needs to understand that they sold like 50 GS300's in 2004. MSRP of $51,000 for a GS300 is too much, they will need to discount the car. Infiniti will definitely discount, due to the M's previous lackluster sales. Its a great time to buy a luxo AWD car. This debut is their only shot at denting MB & BMW. And look out for Infiniti. My backup plan...stroll into the Acura dealer in May/June and get a Acura RL at invoice.....
Expertise needed: Want to buy the new GS300 (same body style as the one I saw today). I am not sure where you are getting the 50K price tag. I thought the GS430 V8 was that price. Of course, they would not give any indication of the sticker price at the Auto Show. They are however, taking pre-orders at certain dealerships. Do you think the new V6 has decent power for the $$? Please explain what you are talking about regarding the August 2005 release? Is this yet another version of the GS300?
As I am ready to place an order, any valuable input would be very appreciated as this is a big purchase for my family to make.
Kind Regards,
Shasta1
The 3.0L V6 is the same one in the Crown Athelete, the 3GR-FSE.
If that is the new pricing plan for Lexus, I expect same for IS and next ES.
You might go back a couple of weeks in the messages here to get the flavor. The 2006 GS300 pre-brochure lists the 0-60mph time to be 6.8s.
If I can get the GS300 for $40,000 USD or the new Infiniti M35 for about that price, which would you recommend and why? Thank you very much - Heather
2006 Canadian prices went up by about 5% from the 2005 models. I expect the same in the US.
As for M35 vs. GS300, gotta wait for them to come out to make any sort of recommendation.
I wonder if Lexus, now less than six weeks til official availability, is not 'holding back' an actual test report out of the media because they fear comparison and tester critique that could blunt their grand intro.
I was somewhat hoping for an argument to bolster the new GS. I expect someone to come along and trash my 'regretable' post soon enough...
I hope that when it comes to the LS, Lexus better get it right. No screw-ups permitted.
A couple possible reasons I could think of:
1) There is a shortage of the new 3.5L V6, at least for a year.
2) They already have some 3.0 V6 made, and it makes the most sense to put it in the U.S. GS300. Japan is launching the Lexus name for the first time, and they want to put out the best (GS350) in Japan. The U.S. Avalon, being a larger car, was developed from the get-go with only the 3.5L in mind.
3) Combination of the above.
With the Acura RL and shortly introduced Infiniti M, Merc E350 and the upgraded BMW 5 series, how does Lexus expect to meet let alone exceed the competition in this bread and butter class?
Let me beat a dead horse and again mention the deathblow, chop us off at the knees, hit a man while he is down (and any other pathetic cliche) Lexus GS350 release in a year or two.
GS sales in '04 and '05 were awful. They need the GS350 engine to compete. Everybody else has the same gadgets as the GS300, except they have bigger engines. I'm also sure the base price will be $3K more than a M35.
The winner will most likely be Infiniti. They will reasonably price the M35 and possibly offer some discounts. Infiniti is building prestige through sales while Lexus believes you should buy a GS because its a Lexus. That mentality is only reserved for the leaders, BMW & Mercedes, and they are having trouble selling $60K E320's & 530i's.
Lets hope the GS300 is priced accordingly.
Also, I feel that people forget that BMWs entry 5 series is powered by a 184 horse 2.5L. 245 hp is significantly more than that, and the Lexus 3.0L has more torque as well, so if the pricing is similar to to the 2.5L 5 series, I dont see the big issue. Last I read, the base 5 series has "leatherette" (read: vinyl) standard even, so one would likely need to get a few options on the 5 as well, to bring it up to the basics provided on the Infiniti M and Lexus GS.
I think this is just an interim strategy for Lexus regarding the engines. And who's to say that the 3.0L is going to be replaced by the 3.5L? Couldnt Lexus run a GS300, a GS350, and a GS4xx once the new V8 is introduced?
Just my .02
~alpha
Lexus WILL have 3 engines in the GS. Why? 'Cus A6 had 3, the 5-series has 3, and the E-Class has 3. How would a 245HP GS300, 280HP GS350, and 310HP GS30 stack up against BMW's engine lineup (218, 258, 333)? I'd say pretty good.
Mind you buyers in this class aren't here for power first! People get the E-Class because the S-Class is too expensive, and the C-Class is cheap and cheezy. People get the 5-series because the 745 pissed everyone off, and everybody else bought a 3-series!
Lexus needs to make a Lexus LS, but with bolder styling, a fun suspension, hipper interior, and a sweet price. Make a younger, hipper LS, with big rims, sharp handling, and a glitzy interior. Make it fun! Then make the IS (in your offices, over the past 3 years), a smaller offshoot of that image.
Then Lexus can trump them all with a 4th engine (GS450h)!
The 2nd Ting: Is I only know one Ting!
LOL!
DrFill