Lexus GS 300/GS 430

carnaught · February 2005

All I can do is agree with previous poster's impressions of the car. What stood out to me was the quietness of the cabin, the buttery soft leather seats and the lack of both headroom (especially in the back seat) and trunk room. Having owned the previous genre(2000) GS300, I found the interior of the new one evolutionary not revolutionary. The quality of the vinyl on the 06's dash and the top of the door panels seemed surprisingly cheap and inferior. The car felt sluggish compared to the '06 M35 and especially for this highly competitive $50K pricepoint. The outside of the car was nicer than expected and than my first impression at a Dec. autoshow. Overall, a nice car, although somewhat lacking.

oac · February 2005

If the GS had shown up with a 3.5L engine and a little firmer suspension (at least as an option), I think it would have "won" today's comparison

Absolutely agree with you. Why-o-why did Lexus not bring the GS350 here this year ? They may well rue that day they decided the US market deserves a 3L motor while Japan gets the 3.5L motor!

bartalk3 · February 2005

Ironically, the new GS is bigger on the outside but smaller on the inside. To wit:

Length increases marginally from 189.2 to 190, and width grows from 70.9 to 71.7. Meanwhile front shoulder room shrinks from 57.7 to 56.3. Likewise for rear shoulder room.

And the trunk shrinks from 14.8 cu. ft. to 12.7.

What are they thinking? Why are they doing this?

surrfurtom · February 2005

Call me old fashioned but I like the feel of roominess in a car, and especially like a functional trunk for golf and travel. But many mfrs. are reducing the trunk size. As examples off the top my head, the RL, STS, GS, Avalon, etc. have all lost 1.5-3 cu ft.

Much to my chagrin car mfrs are going back to form over function with the chopped back end look.

oac · February 2005

Maybe your commentary would be more positive with the "future" GS350

Maybe. But there ain't no GS350 here to test.

Maybe the GS430 would be a better match for the M35/45?

I could not get a GS430 tester. The dealership told me they will be scarce to find, and may not be provided as a tester. But I would love to run the M45 against the GS430. That should be a closer match, I agree.

Comparing the 280HP M to the 245HP GS maybe unfair at this point, as far as driving impressions go

But I can only test what are put out. If Lexus does want to compete against the M, they better get the 350 over here quick, otherwise its lights out, goodnight GS.

Lexus need to play the HP game; that's what the market demands today, and the earlier they recognize that the better for us fans. I certainly wasn't happy to see my favorite company not step up with a competitive car in the GS300. Sure there are a lot of great things about the new GS, but Lexus skimped where it matters most - sportiness, and speed. The 6.8s for the GS300 is nothing to stand against the 6.3s for the M35, plus the M has a Sport package, while the GS has NO sport package. What gives ?

The mild upgrade in MY2007 should make things more interesting. On a good note, two GS300 were SOLD between the time I took the tester out and came back. Both retailed well over $50K. So they may sell these cars but for all the noise made by Denny Clements, methinks the car falls short of the mark.

lexusguy · February 2005

The SC300, the original '93 GS and the '98 version all did well originally. The test isnt if Lexus can sell any GS300s one month after it came out, its how many can they continue to sell in 2008 and beyond.

callmedrfill · February 2005

I think this is in the Lexus plan, to hold that round in the chamber until after the initial sales burst wears off.

They want to have something to offer in a facelift for 2007, I guess.

They'd be smart to offer a sports pkg. as well.

The word from the company is they want to sell more V8 GS, so I don't see why it's so hard to find them when people want to see them?

Seems like same old, same old to me. Very curious behavior from Lexus.

DrFill

hydroman1 · February 2005

Drove the '06 GS300 this weekend. Loved the drive and feel. I found the interior impressive-except for the puzzling gap in front of the console glove compartment (whats that all about?). It has great gauges and comfortable seats, which gave me an impression of both sport and luxury. Unfortunately, the sport impression was shattered when I stepped on the gas pedal. But fortunately, I'll be draining my bank account later, rather than sooner when Lexus (hopefully) addresses this issue.....guess I'm spoiled by my wife's '05 Maxima.

creditman · February 2005

I Have Test Driven All of the following: GS300AWD, A6, RL, STS, M-35AWD. The problem that I have noticed with the GS is that the driver's footwell is small, and there is a bump in the floor on the side of the transmission housing, that rubs up aganist my calf when you hit the gas pedal, has anyone else noticed this? I have deposits down on both the m-35 & the gs300, and I'm favoring the m-35 because of this tranmission bump. any comments?

bartalk3 · February 2005

After test driving the GS300, I doubt those acceleration figures from Lexus. Doesn't feel that fast at all (unless the traditional Lexus silence is masking the acceleration).

jrock65 · February 2005

Well, if it's something that you think will keep bothering you, you probably shouldn't get it. That seems like that it could be a make it or break it issue for some ppl.

pearl · February 2005

re small driver's footwell on GS. Yes, I noticed that too during my test drive, but forgot to note it when I wrote about it earlier in this thread. In my opinion, that would become an issue on any sort of longer drive where you want some room to move feet/legs around a bit. I still think the GS is a great car, but could have been a grand slam home run right out of the gate with a little more attention to details and power.

boomsama · February 2005

So is the GS the smallest car in its class?

callmedrfill · February 2005

Is small in back.

The 5 is no Avalon either.

Drfill

drtravel · February 2005

Some facts:

2004 GS 300 weighed 3,649 lbs had 220 hp @ 5,800 and 220 lb-ft @ 3,800

2006 GS 300 weighs 3,536 lbs has 245 hp @ 6,200 and 230 lb-ft @ 3,600

The 2006 GS 300 hp/lb ratio increased by 15% and the tor/lb ratio increased by 7% - is this enough for Lexus to claim that the 0-60 time dropped from 7.8 seconds to 6.8 seconds?

The 2006 M35 hp/lb ratio is 5.5% better than the GS and the tor/lb ratio is 8% better. The M35 does 0-60 in 6.3 seconds.

callmedrfill · February 2005

And torque curves.

And in some cases, # of tranny speeds.

Even the tires can enhance acceleration times!

Good to know the Lexus lost weight.

DrFill

bartalk3 · February 2005

Lexus is probably puffing up the acceleration figures for the new GS300 because they did so for the previous GS.

For example, for '04 GS300, Lexus claimed 1/4 mile in 15.8, but the best Car & Driver could do was 16.1, and Consumer Reports, when they originally tested the car, got only 16.8

Same for 0-60, Lexus claiming 7.8, but C&D recorded 8.0 even and CR only 8.8.

So Lexus' claim for the new GS are undoubtedly optimistic. That was my seat-of-the-pants impression when I drove it.

By the way, the final gear ratio in the new GS is virtually the same as previously.

adb3 · February 2005

Seems like folks are trying hard to find reasons not to like the new GS. Well that's ok. And if Infiniti (M45/35) is now your choice du jour, that's ok too. When I pick up my 430 next week, it will be good to experience a little "exclusiveness" for awhile. Now if only the new GS could get a few bad reviews from the car mags....

pearl · February 2005

I'm not so sure that most people here are "trying hard to find reasons not to like the new GS", but rather posting their comments now that they have finally had a chance to see/drive the car. I very much like the new GS; however, like all of its competitors (RL, M, A6, E350, STS, etc) have found some things about it that I didn't know about until now. In my opinion, all of these are very nice cars, but all have some "flaws" depending upon your individual taste and desires. Some people will see one of these and love it more than the others immediately, with the flaws seen by others being inconsequential to them. I think that after all of these cars are out and can easily be driven and compared by those looking to buy, maybe one or more will emerge as "better" - but I doubt it. They are all very good, the "best" most likely being in the eye of the beholder. Enjoy your 430 - you got a great car.

adb3 · February 2005

Good points...certainly not attempting to devalue others opinions...even though I do believe there's a little nit-picking going on, particularly concerning HP. But alas, everyone has their boat floated a little differently...and are free to express their likes or dislikes. For me, Lexus has hit the right marks with sportier but elegant styling, a jewel-like and ergonomically sound interior presentation, and crisper and more sure-footed handling. But most importantly it's a Lexus because I want a car I can drive, not admire from afar in my dealer's garage while the mechanics are trying to resolve maintenance issues.

bartalk3 · February 2005

Congratulations on the 430. Most of the nit-picking here is for the 300, mainly people tearing their hair because Lexus chose such an anemic engine in place of a bigger one they could have used. Can you describe the car you bought--the equipment, color, etc. I assume you've driven the car. Are the big tires noisy at all?

adb3 · February 2005

Understand...not sure the mainstream driver/buyer cares that much about HP...time/sales will tell. Dealer didn't have the 430 to drive, so only been in the 300. I pre-ordered back in Dec because I was convinced without even seeing it in person that the car would be strong because Toyota has a lot at stake (did the same 2 yrs ago with my 330--home run!). My 430 is black with the cream colored (they use another name) interior. It's coming with everything--and I mean everything. BTW, in my area I believe that's the only way they are shipping the initial offerings.

lexusguy · February 2005

Please post all of your impressions when you actually get behind the wheel of your new 430. I'm very curious as to how this VDIM system operates, and Edmunds wasnt much help in that department.

supraman · February 2005

I couldn't agree more!

Lexus design has undoubtedly come on by leaps and bounds, but I'm not sure that it's there yet.

The best example I can give is last year's Guigaro design at Geneva, the Alessandro Volta - a concept to die for! But will they make it? You can bet your [non-permissible content removed] they wont!

lexy · February 2005

HI
ive been reading all these pages for a while, never posted - wanted to gather my thoughts. - VERY GOOD POSTS!

First, what maintainence is usually associated with gs 300 besides oil changes - I have a corolla

Is there a lexus site that can check service records for used lexuses?

Anyone buy a used lexus gs 300 2001-2004 recently and have anything to say? Any problems?

Does anyone know where these dealers get these used lexuses off lease? Damn dealers get them from auctions I think from toyota for 2000-3000 less than what they sell you!

thanks so much
lexy

Kirstie_H · February 2005

You've posted in a discussion about the future Lexus GS. You need to visit our current model Lexus GS forum to get feedback on your questions.

iunknown · February 2005

I, too, am awaiting my 430. Could be as soon as Friday. It will be blue with tan interior. I was very impressed when, last May, I asked the dealer to help me choose between the GS and the LS. He advised I wait for the 2006. I have also been told the car comes only one way: loaded.

cook3 · February 2005

I drove the GS 300AWD yesterday. I too noticed the bump. It bothered me enough that I may re-think the AWD and go with rear wheel drive. I would think that driving long distances would be irritating.
I'm going to look at Mecedeces too. Have you driven any?

bartalk3 · February 2005

I've been told by at least one large dealer that they can factory order a Lexus optioned out just as you want it. It may take up to 100 days, but you can get it exactly the way you want it, with as many or as few options as you like.

Other dealers have told me that you have to take them the way they come. My feeling is that these dealers are either lazy or just want to sell what they've got or are too small and have very little clout with Lexus.

Has anyone here factory ordered a Lexus with a la carte options?

jrock65 · February 2005

There must be a way to factory order one. That is the only way to get PCS on the GS. It's a special order option at like $2400 or something.

lexusguy · February 2005

It can definitely be done, it will just take more time, as they may have to either find a car from some other part of the country, or have one made.

stuart3 · February 2005

I had the opportunity to test drive the new GS 430 last week. The car seems to handle better than my old 1999 GS 400. They changed the exhaust to make sound faster. The car car drives as nice as it looks.

bartalk3 · February 2005

Thanks. I figured that factory-ordered cars are possible, though many dealers will give you a flat no, or try hard to discourage you.

creditman · February 2005

thank's for noticing the bump too. My lexus salesman says i'm crazy, and said that no one else noticed the bump. I'm going to test drive it again today and determine if it will be o.k., i don't think so. That's why I have a deposit on the m-35 awd. In answer to your other question, I have test drove the mecerdes e320 4matic, however it looks like chrysler has had it's hand into the quality of it.

lex4life · February 2005

i have been speaking with one of my good friends who works for lexus out in torrence, he was telling me the reason that the GS wasn't introduced as a 330 or 350 was because the hp would be around 260-280, which is too close to the gs430's 300, they were afraid they would pull customers away from the v8. They are in development of a new V8 for the new ls which should be well with in the mid 300 so then the gs would use that as a replacement for the v8 and use a 3.3 or 3.5 as a replacement for the v6. Dont forget though that the 300 is a completely new engine thats lighter and 20hp more powerful, i do think that the gs needed at least 255 instead of the 245.
On a seperate note, i have driven the gs 300 (rear and awd) and the M35 (AWD). Though the M is more powerful, the dash is a killer, it was a big turn off. It was best put "it looks Like an ATM" in motor trend i believe. If the controls were placed lower by the shifter( I.e. IDRIVe and the audi a6) it would have cleared up room, instead it is a distraction to reach up and is very uncomfortable. The gs center console is extremely clean and easy to use. Though the Infiniti is a great car and have great powerful engines(strategy lexus should follow)the interior turned me away. I still need to test drive the rearwheel drive before i deside on either the lexus or M. Either way both cars are great.
On a side note, the lexus gs Mark Levinson 330w sound system is out of this world.

lexusguy · February 2005

Or is it that Mercedes has had a hand into the quality of Chrysler? If you look at the latest IQ reports, Mercedes is ranked quite a bit lower than Chrysler. I bet nobody saw that coming 10 years ago.

The hp conflict with the 430 is basically what all of us guessed awhile back. What I dont understand is, V8 sales are only maybe 10% if they're lucky, and when the V6 is NOT cannibalizing the V8s power. Why jeapordize the other 90% by using a much weaker engine than you have readily available for the purpose of protecting those measily 10%? Why not just introduce a GS350 as the sole option until the new V8 is ready?

bartalk3 · February 2005

Speaking of strange Lexus decisions, I've been told that 90% of the GS300s coming to the midwest and perhaps the entire country will be AWD. How odd. Two hundred pounds heavier than the RWD, slower, thirstier, and $2,000 more expensive. I can't imagine that 90% of GS300 buyers would want the AWD.

lex4life · February 2005

I spoke to my friend and he told me that the 350 engine isnt ready yet aswell as the 3.3 in the es and rx arent "sporty" enough.They are heavier and couldnt support the 6spd. Also the awd system couldnt control the tourque so the awd had to have tourque at a controllable level. The gs does have less Hp then it competitors, but it does have a 6spd transmission with quicker ratios. The reason for those 10% of 430's is because lexus does need a competitor to the 545, e500, and now the M45, without one the Gs series couldnt be viewed as a true competitor on all levels. The other reason is to attract a market that wants a V8. Not to mention the 300HP Gs is better to send for a review then a 245hp.
However i did read that Toyota has reserved the rights for a GS350 and 450 i believe, not sure on the numbers but i would expect the change to be as an 08' or 09' model at the latest. Lexus doesnt want to unveil the bigger v8 until the new LS i would think.

Last week i test drove the New gs in AWD and rear, and the AWD didn't feel much different to my RX330. My salesman who i have used since 1989(when they were selling ls's out of a trailer) said that a reardrive would be decent in the snow with snow tires added. i dont know how right he is. All i know is my current GS is hooorrible in the snow. Any body with experience with snow tires?

Just to let everyone know, the New IS is to be unveiled at geneva march 1rst.

lexusguy · February 2005

Theres no way they would use the 3.3L. Once the new 3.0 makes it to the rest of the line, that engine will disappear. Its got less power than the new 3.0, mostly because its just a bored out version of the old 3.0L V6 thats been around some 12 years or more.

k_mitsui · February 2005

How is it possible that America only have the 3.0 engine instead the 3.5L engine?? This is because I already saw both 3.5 and the 4.3 engine during my test drive back in Japan in January and they looked perfectly ready for production. However you are correct that Toyota might change their mind months before the sedan release because it has happened with the Crown Athlete sedan where they suddenly change its displacement back to 3 liter instead of 3.3 liter many of us anticipated of. But it's "very strange" the Japanese automotive community never notice the engine displacement change occurred in the GS sedan until I discover this information just now. If this displacement change is indeed true in Japan as well, many of us back in Japan would be very disappointed to Toyota's decision and I will certainly ask people working in the Higashi-Fuji Technical Center as to why such dramatic change in engine displacement is necessary. On the other hand, I think your salesman has overemphasized the ability the rear-wheel drive GS on snow. This is because although he might be correct the car will handle fine if it has only encounter light to intermediate snowfall mainly contributed with its VDM system. But when I drive this car to Hokkaido where snow depth in many areas can match the ones in Chicago, the car have show too much instability even when the car installed snow tires. Therefore the new GS have a better ability to encounter snow condition than the current Aristo sedan, but I would say the difference would not be by much.
Hope this will help
Ken

richards · February 2005

My current car is a 98 Lexus GS300 with 53k miles - a fabulous car but hopeless in the northeast this time of year [I put my snows on each winter - they don't help much]. I have driven the GS300AWD and the RL - both great cars. I have a bad back and am looking for the most comfortable of the two - the RL seems to have an edge, but its not a Lexus. Any thoughts?

lex4life · February 2005

what is the HP and Tourque rating on the 3.5L. I dont think the VDM is offered on the 300, on the 430 here in America which sucks.

cove148 · February 2005

First, the 6 speed has been supporting a V8 in the LS430 starting with the 2004 model, combination seems to be working great.
Second, Check the specs on the 3.5L in the 2005 Avalon, by all indications this will be the engine in the GS300 update expected in model year 2007.

lex4life · February 2005

2007 seems to soon, if it is the same engine from the avalon which it very may be, then why not put it in now? That leads me back to the whole too much Hp close to the V8. Hopefully your right cause that would give the GS300 some real power. If anything it would be a 2008 model.

oac · February 2005

The 4.6L motor goes into the MY2007 LS first. This car debuts late Summer/early fall 2006. Then the GS430 becomes GS460, and a hybrid version - GS450h, also debuts in MY2007 (next year). At which time one can/should expect the GS300 to also move up to the GS350, where the output difference is now more comfortable - 280hp v 330hp (projected numbers).

lexusguy · February 2005

280 horses and 260 ft.lbs of torque. The VDIM system is currently only on the 430. The 300 just gets the old VSC stability styem.

callmedrfill · February 2005

I thought Lexus was gonna put changes in gradually, staggered to enhance the lifespan of the car over time?

Putting a new V8, V6, and Hybrid in within 6 months doesn't make much sense, compared to what Clements said is the strategy.

One engine will have to wait for '08. My guess is it would be the V8. If it is running under 6 seconds now, there is no need to rush a bigger engine in.

My question is, as the LS has a history of appearing in redesigned form between mid-October and mid-Novemeber, when do you release new V6 in the GS?

I'd do it right around the first of the year, 2007.

The marketing blitz on the new LS has died down, the year end sales event is over, and it gives customers a reason to go to the dealership in the dark cold months of January and February.

I'd expect the Hybrid in Summer of '07, and the V8 a year after the six.

DRFill

oac · February 2005

You make good points.

Here is what we know. The new LS will come with the new V8 engine. Should arrive in dealerships by mid-October 2006 as MY2007.

The GS350 would have been around in Japan for 18 months by end of 2006, so maybe bring it in March 2007, as an early 2008 GS350. Maybe release the hybrid GS450h about the same time as this engine upgrade. Then bring in the GS460 before end of 2007 as an MY2008 release.

What do you think of this staggered guesses ?

callmedrfill · February 2005

Why let the GS go ICE cold, with no upgrades between now and winter 2007?

I woant the GS to still have something going for it when the LS hits, so the GS isn't totally forgotten.

It would be best if Lexus would bring one new engine 2 months before the LS lands, so the GS can enjoy a strong close to '06, and have sustained momentum into another engine release in early '07, and get additional quality traffic, as the LS' market dominance continues to grow.

I don't think the car (GS) is competitive enough to go through Winter '07 without a new engine (3.0 notwithstanding).

I'd try to have the 3.5 ready just as the LS arrives.

The Hybrid would take away too much from the LS launch.

The 4.6 GS would do the same.

The 3.5 will be ready within a year. I'm hearing it's not just a straight swap out of Avalon, but more powerful. And the 3.0 may saty in the lineup.

Given the price of the GS430, the LS doesn't look like it'll go much past $60k base price. I thought they may go right to $65k, but $15k is too big a gap to leave.

One other thought is this structure:

GS300: 245HP - low $40's
GS350: 300HP - under $50k (Acura RL with more torque)
GS460: 350-360HP - $55-57k
2007 LS: 350HP - 20/28MPG - $65-85k

DrFill

cook3 · February 2005

I will be looking at the M35 this weekend. The cowl height is quite high on the GS300. Not having seen an M35 in person, I was wondering if the dash is less obtrusive?

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