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Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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Comments

  • Hello lex4life
    The 3.5 engine would have the horsepower at around 270-280hp (depending environmental regulation for each country) with torque power that is very close to the Fuga 350 (Nissan) sedan since l don’t have the brochure with me. I also called the engineers at the Higashi-Fuji Technical Center last night and he told me the new engine design was suffering lower than expected “performance” and hesitation problems that is very similar to the Windom sedan selling in the America market when they installed environmental-related components to comply America environmental regulations (but such problem have not exhibit by the ones that’s selling for the Japanese market). Therefore they decide to postpone the launch date for the GS 350 sedan in America until the issue has fully resolved which they hopefully can be done by the time the LS sedan arrives in America. So what is likely to happen is both GS 350 and 430 would launch on schedule for the Japanese market, but the America market would have to live with the new 3.0 liter engine for a while until Toyota come up with the solution for the 3.5 liter engine.
    I am just wondering what are the types of hesitation/performance problems suffered by the Windom sedan currently selling in America since none of the Windom sedan in Japan I know of has suffer any sort of hesitation or performance problems? But I know there are researchers in Japan working on the engine/transmission problem for the Windom sedan selling in America market (is this the nature of the problem?). Any information available would be greatly appreciated.
    Ken
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Well, that makes the most sense, since Japan gets the GS350 from the get-go.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Did you mean our Toyota Avalon? That is the only Toyota vehicle currently available here that has the new 3.5L
  • Hello Lexusguy
    Toyota Avalon??? Humm..I never heard of this sedan in Japan before, but since you are talking about this car would also have the 3.5 liter engine like the GS-sedan does, then the problem becomes much more complicated. My best guess would be although the engine's basic platform between the two sedan would be very similar, but I think GS engine would be tuned for high sportniess, which make some of the parts used to produce the engine are differ than the Avalon sedan which I believe it’s built for comfort (am I correct??). Also the transmission used by the GS-sedan would be the ones coming from the Crown Athlete sedan (6-speed), which is tuned for sportiness. On the other hand, I believe from what I read from edmunds.com the Avalon sedan are using the 5-transmission that is similar from the Camry sedan, which is less expensive to produce it. Such difference between the engine components and transmission can explain as to why the Avalon sedan would be on sale on schedule and the GS350 sedan is not
    Hope this would help
    Ken
  • jim20jim20 Posts: 10
    I drove a GS 300 last night. For all of the complaining about its lack of a larger engine [Confession: Some of that was from me...] it did very well. It definitely handles better than the old GS 300. There is almost total road isolation, so if that is what you like, go for it.
  • Very nice. Power is excellent. Handling and braking are great. Takes a little while to set the car up, and I will have to get a bluetooth phone now.

    It did not come quite as loaded as I had hoped. No PCS or adaptive cruise control.

    Price was $58,334 MSRP. No discount, no markup.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Did you drive the AWD or RWD? Did you notice any pronounced tire thump over bumps?
  • Hello iunknown
    I am very surprised the new GS in America have no adaptive cruise and PCS Japan because these things are standard features if I pruchase the B package, which would cost me around 6.2 million yen (around 62000 US dollars). The package also include the lane departure warning system too! and they are selling the GS for $58 334; it's way too expensive. I think there's has some serious problems in Toyota America because why they don't sell the similar types of packages we have in Japan??? May-be they would come in later model years, but why not now???
    Ken
  • On the 2006 GS...is there an actual spoiler or do they just call that thing sticking out of the trunk the spoiler? Will it have one like the one on the 2005 GS or just that trunk extension?
  • does anyone know where i can find a picture of the 2006 gs with a rear spoiler? that is if it's not that trunk extension.
  • I also drove one today. Great Ride. What price were you quoted? My dealer quoted low $600's for a 36yr/15k lease.No money down just taxes. Anybody bought one yet?
  • I have the new RL and it is a great car. Had a GS400 in the past but it was awful in the snow. I love the Lexus but not enough power in the AWD GS300. When Lexus gets more power in an AWD GS, I will be the first one in line. Until then, I have a great car for another 2-3 years.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I highly recommend against a 36 year lease, for a number of financial reasons.

    Just jabbin ya, I thought it was a funny typo.

    ;)

    ~alpha
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,324
    Just don't drive it more than 416.66 miles per year!
  • I test drove a 2006 GS 300 (rwd) today and enjoyed it. I found the dynamics of the car better than expected. The brakes were a bit touchy but strong and after initial grab, progressive. The steering was a bit light. Suspension was most impressive dynamic feature. It let you feel the road without letting the occupants become jarred going over potholes and the like. Very little side roll going around turns but I set off the ASC/TRAC each hard corner.

    The engine was adequate. This is not bad and I could be happy with this performance given the mpg bonus. I was not surprised by more power than I expected from the stats though.

    I love the outside lines of the new car (very BMW 5 series and 1st generation SC coupe front end) but was disappointed by the Mystic Metallic (silver) color on this car. The interior design was pure Lexus/Heaven.

    I was VERY disappointed with the interior dimensions. My head scraped the border of the moonroof border cloth even with the seat full lowered and seatback tilted more than my usual. My left shoulder was too tight against the door and B-pillar area. Same noted when in the front passenger seat with my right shoulder. The rear roof is about 3 inches too low for me to sit up straight. I am 6'3" but still surprised as I fit fine in my Boxster. The trunk also was very small for a four door sedan. (I think only 2 cu. ft. larger than the Boxster!)

    Now, for my 'mistake'. I sat in an LS430. It was glorious. Inches of room top and sides leftover. The seats, particularly the front thigh supports, where better. GS and LS are both ventilated. Rear seats obviously were cavernous as was the trunk being nearly double the size. The exterior dimensions being 7 inches longer and two inches higher and width about the same as the GS. I took it for a test drive and found the acceleration much better than the GS (no suprise 0-60 5.9sec). What really suprised me was how much better it cornered compared to what I thought. While it was not nearly as good as the GS in cornering it made up for it (to my mind) with better ride and acceleration.

    The shocker was that the 63K sticker leased out to $799/month inc. tax(36months/15Kmiles/month) while the non-discounted GS300awd was $854/month same particulars. Both had Nav/ML.

    Needless to say, I am strongly leaning toward the LS430. While it has 'senior stigma' and no awd I can get past this. To be fair, if the GS 'fit' me then I never would have sat in or drove the LS. Bad things do happen for good reasons... :)
  • I think that the LS has universal appeal, just because it is a good car. You can use it for whatever you please, it's capable enough, and it's also uber comfortable. Don't worry about the stigma. I think that the LS looks stately and pleasant, and I'm not a senior, either. Sure better than a 7 series, and a bunch cheaper, too. The LS looks better than the GS.... maybe Lexus should have built the GS off the LS frame.....
    I've said it before, the LS is one of my favorites.
  • The new GS300 has slightly more power than my current model so although the RL has a lot more, its not the deciding factor. Maybe I am spoiled, having kept my GS for 7+ years, but I am hoping not to replace my next car for at least 5 years. Seems like you are waiting until the GS AWD gets more power and then you'll make the switch. The fact that you gave up the GS400 for the RL is a great testament to the Acura. My wife has an MDX - its a good car but very heavy on gas.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Hey Im no senior! The LS is a magnificent car, definitely anyone that hasnt driven the car since the 400 days will be mighty surprised. If you can, try and find one with the Euro-sport suspension and the big 5-spoke wheels. It wont be easy, it seems around 1% of cars actually have this instead of the air or standard suspensions, but its worth it.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I think the above post #1508 is exactly why the GS430 has always had a hard time selling. For the average Lexus buyer sport isn't important and the GS and LS are very close in price so the bigger LS starts to look like the obvious choice.

    I'm betting Lexus will fix this with the next LS. It will probably start at 65k or so to distance it from the GS430.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Yep, and Im sure that the LWB version and hybrid will probably push it to 80K, perhaps even beyond.
  • As anyone found the Mark Levison offered as an option with the 300AWD? My dealer in Chicago tells me it is only offered with the 430.
  • Dealer in PA today has two GS 300awd's coming in this week. One with Navi/ML and the other without. Navi/ML= $51,855 and sans Navi/ML= $47339 stickers.

    Merc1: The reason I can give up a bit on the sport side of the equation is because I have a Boxster-S. I suspect most folks cannot have three or four cars. The GS series is a nice combo of sport/luxury and will remain quite appealing particularly due to the awd in north.

    Thus far the LS is in or at the top of its class. The past GS models have not, THAT is why they have not been flying out the doors. The LS is all around better (particularly value) than the 7 series BMW but the GS has not been in the same league with the 5 series.
  • I cannot speak to the discrepancy. From what I read there seems to be a different view of the American market. I was told the 430 would be *fully* loaded. Oh well.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Also, you could get a CPO LS430 if you wanted to save some cash. The LS got the six-speed in 2004, since then there have been no changes.
  • rboyd4rboyd4 Posts: 23
    I think the Japanese are more receptive to new technology and new models. Plus I think that Toyota/Lexus wants to test new technology in Japan first to uncover any problems and then introduce to the U.S. later. In this way they can maintain very high quality ratings in the U.S. Not different than Nissan introducing the Fuga in Japan first and then later the Infiniti M35/45 comes out in the U.S.

    As to pricing, Lexus is the dominant Japanese luxury brand in the U.S. and they have earned premium pricing against their peers. It is interesting that you think the new Lexus GS is somewhat under-contented compared to the Japanese model for the price. Ironically, the Infiniti M35/45 (Fuga) has some of the options you cited at a lower price. However, Nissan/Infiniti is playing catch-up against Lexus and probably has to deliver more for the $ for quite a while to catch up to the Lexus brand equity. If you are Toyota this is a good situation because you can basically charge more for your cars. Infiniti and Acura (Honda) do not have this pricing power IMO. Lexus is in a similar position as a Japanese brand as Mercedes Benz was (or is) against its European competitors.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    There have been reports of water condensation problems in the headlights of the 2006 GS. If you have a 2006 GS, check to see if your car has this problem.
  • jim20jim20 Posts: 10
    We didn't talk price. I am still in the evaluation phase of my car search and probably won't buy until later this year. Right now, I am looking for reasons to include/exclude a car from the final list.
  • This is a business lease and $800/month is the magic number. I am not sure why, just psych.
  • I didn't think it is under featured for the price. I was more than willing to pay the extra for the feature (not to the extent that I would pass on the one I took to wait 6 weeks for one equipped that way). It was just an expectation. When I was told "fully loaded," that was what I expected.

    The feature is on the LS's, so I don't think it is a matter of working the kinks out. I think it might be price sensitivity, inasmuch as they are concerned with the price of the GS moving too close to the LS.
  • The rear spoiler is just a nub on the trunk. It is very similar to the spoiler on the SC. It is not the wing it was on previous versions.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    I really wanted to like the new GS but after a test drive can't recommend it.

    Some issues: The interior color combination of ash leather with black bird's-eye maple looks too cheap. The wood is so polished and dark it looks like plastic. The cashmere/golden bird's-eye maple looks much more lexus-like, but it's only available in really dark exterior colors, white, gold and red.

    The exterior colors are uninspiring. 25% of GSs will be silver (actually called mercury metallic) - another 40% will be black or white. I was hoping for a little darker silver - the only thing they have is a too dark flint mica.

    The interior is too small. Entry/exit into the back seat is unpleasant due to a high wheel well. Once back there way too cramped. The trunk size is marginal but the trunk opening is horrible, try putting a suitcase or groceries back there - need a larger opening.

    The car is underpowered. Did a 0-60 mph sprint plus some 30-50 mph passing tests. OK but not good enough for a "sporty" sedan. Compared to the M35, Acura and even the Toyota Avalon the GS needs more power. The brochure says 0-60 takes 6.8 seconds - highly doubtful. The saleslady told me she heard this from quite a few people but had good news - a bigger engine is coming maybe as soon as the end of the year. Did you catch the "tire life may be substantially less than 20,000 miles" comment.
  • Gets worse. The car is a piece of garbage!! Bought a gorgeous red 2006 GS 300 last Sunday from Jim Falk Lexus in Beverly Hills. Monday: drove it for 5 miles, bad noise from dash. Tuesday: Back lighting on steering wheel buttons stopped working. Thursday: neighbor called me to tell me the headlights switched on by themselves . tried to turn them off using the crappy smart key - no joy. Had to turn off headlights manually and lock car manually. OK - so it could happen - BUT after the rain, saw that the headlights had water in them (both). Took car back to dealer and got the usual run around - you know, they'll do anything to make the sale, but once you've signed for the car, goodbye goodwill!! The salesman knew about the problem but ignored me when he saw me bring the car to service dept. I had to almost drag him into the service area to show him the failed locking system. Guys, all this after less than a week old!! STAY AWAY FROM THIS TURKEY!!
  • Yes it does!! Car is less than a week old and has a s--t load of problems already - see my other post - this car is a turkey
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,324
    Haven't seen one good review yet for this car. Looks like a dinosaur in this highly competitive class.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I dont know that that is necessarily true, but I dont think it helps at all that Toyota seems to have landed a homerun with the $37K, 280 horse Avalon, whose reviews have been fairly GLOWING. Certainly, I understand that that car is aimed at a non-sporting market, but it seems that Toyota developed that car in a way that has positioned it at the top of its class, whereas the GS has simply been 'upgraded'.

    ~alpha
  • Have spent the last 2 weekends driving Infiniti M45 with sport package, Lexus GS300 & GS430. I've owned 3 Lex since 1991 and am currently in an SUV. (Toyota). Done with that! Want a car again and Lexus is my 1st choice. The LS is dated and the look is "been there done that". The M45 was slightly harsh on rough road and am waiting for the dealer to get a non sport package in. The GS 430 with the standard low profile tires is definitely HARSH riding while the GS300 is a non starter with the underpowered 6. Fit and finish are typical Lexus and you just CAN'T beat the service. I drove an LS430 today and remembered what a lux flagship should be like..... if only they would refresh the style. The LS430 is my head, but the style of the GS is my heart. The M is a compromise. BTW CLS500 Mercedes.. underpowered, poor fit & finish and LOUD.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The Avalon was also gifted with the 3.5L and adaptive cruise, aparently features that are impossible to get on GS for ...whatever reason.
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    $854 a Month Ouch! Just for fun I build a 530I with every option Nav,Adap cruise,head-up display ect with a MSRP of 63k, the lease was $750.00(not including any deals that could be made)

    Toyota must have really high MF or Low residual.

    And I saw a lease on a G35 (which I do not care for personally ) for about $300 a Month.

    DL
  • The wife and I went to the open house our dealer had for the new GS. They need to fix a boatload of things before I would put 60 large down on this car. First and foremost I didn't like the front seats at all. ( I'm 6ft and 285lbs) Second for that kind of money it needs about another 100HP. And third, it really needs a bigger back seat. We can go on and on about other things(like the trunk size) but other people need to rant about this car.......

    Tony T
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    If you want to appreciate the GS300, drive the Avalon. I did. Forget the 3.5L engine and all the little gismos they put on it that the GS300 doesn't have. In two seconds, any luxury-sports sedan enthusiast will flee!
  • Drove eagerly awaited GS300 awd. I am just under 6'0", but my head very nearly rubs roof even when seat adjusted. Usually cars w/out moonroof have a little more space. Has anyone seen a GS300 w/o moonroof? Is there more headroom?

    Dealers say they can order, but have separately quoted me 2, 4 and (more than)six months. Any guesses who is correct? Thanks!
  • Also drove Avalon (sticker $38k) and GS 300 awd (sticker $49k). Avalon was totally loaded, incredibly smooth, power difference was obviously in its favor. Avalon has been geared to really jump from 50-70 mph, handy on freeway. Neither car was as eager off the line as my '97 Diamante, but I don't need to throw gravel. IMO driving experience favored Avalon.

    Interior finish nicer on Lexus, so for me comes down to is interior worth $11k? Undecided.
  • I agree the black wood doesn't appeal to me, would have liked the redder wood with ash (grey) leather. I don't use back seat or trunk that much, so I don't care about that, but I am suprised at so little power too, compared to Avalon and Acura RL.

    In defense of Lexus, new RL interior struck me as too much plastic, and on the one I drove they couldn't even make the smart key work. (Smart key worked on Avalon and Lexus I tried).
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Avalon great car if you only drive straight. If you should actually have to make a turn, however, it rolls like a ship in a storm.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    The new Avalon is said to have improved handling. Still, the Avalon is not, nor is marketed as a sporting macheine. I wouldnt call it a ship in a storm though.

    ~alpha
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Time has passed, the reviews will roll in, and I expect more accolades from the press will prevail-Here's what Edmunds.com said in their comparison test:

    "The difference is that the Lexus just feels better than the Infiniti. The Lexus feels special. Although not as powerful, its engine is smoother and more refined, its interior is quieter and more elegant, and its suspension tuned more precisely. Driving the Lexus makes you feel like your money has been spent on the very best, and the car will reward you for years to come."

    "This is quite a car. It's the best sport sedan from Japan in its price range. It may even be the best sedan in its class. Nice job, Lexus."

    Far from faint praise.
    ~alpha
  • adb3adb3 Posts: 112
    Well...let the debate begin. I'm sure Edmund's review will only serve to fuel more discussion, but frankly I'm just a little bit thrilled that it came to the same conclusion that I did about this gem of a car. It might not be the fastest, or the the most handsome (although I think so), or the overall most sheer fun to drive; but for my money the 430 has the best combination of luxury, elegance, performance, and reliability of any car in this class. Mine will be here this week. I'm patiently (barely) awaiting its arrival.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Could you post a link to the comparison test...I couldn't find it on my own.

    Thank you
  • adb3adb3 Posts: 112
    It's on Edmund's main page--linked from the Inside Line section.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Very interesting reading, I have to say I was more than a little surprised by the results. I was certainly not expecting a 3rd place for the M45 sport. Apparently its too "sporty" of a sports sedan, if that makes sense. I'm surprised the Lexus won, ranking last in the fun to drive factor. Apparently sports sedans shouldnt be fun to drive? Im sorry was this a test of the GS or LS? The Edmunds guys seemed to have their priorities a little messed up. Normally an out right slaughter in all performance tests wins you a comparison when you're up for best sports sedan. Not this time, its all about how the buttons are easy to understand, and the steering wheel looks so pretty!
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