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Comments
Bold vision my friend. Seriously though I think the Inifniti M will be the one taking the sales lead after the E and 5. Where do you see the RL, A6 and STS placing? The pie is being sliced to death here. The E and 5 are going to be the biggest sales losers.
M
The A6 is ok, but I dont trust new model Audis. For example, problems from the final '01 Audi A4 to the new '02 Audi A4 absolutely skyrocketed, and like the RL, its not particularly fast. Leasing the A6 also apparently is extremely expensive.
The GS has all of the traditional Lexus strengths, superb interior, materials, fit and finish, its quiet, and reliability will probably be highest in the segment. However, its just not as fun to drive as the other three. Also, the GS300 will become 350 in as little as a year, which wouldnt make me particularly excited about being a new 300 owner.
Ahh, I forgot about the STS. STS will probably be the third best seller, on second thought. GS/M will be 4th/5th. A6 will be 6th, and RL will be 7th. The fact that there is only one $50k version of the RL will hurt its sales.
I think this may be especially true when the new redesigned Y2007 ES is released in March/April of next year.
Yeah, the GS are selling pretty well. I'll expect the same brisk selling for the M as well. Let's see what MY2007 brings for the GS - a GS450h that will be faster yet more fuel efficient than the GS430, and maybe a GS350... Who knows ??? Then what will Infiniti have to counter ? Maybe the Skyline GT-R ???
Lexus' plan of continual upgrades for the GS should really pay off for them though. Both the previous GS and IS were asked to run unchanged for years and years, and it just didnt work.
If "this is not a good time for BMW or MBenz" is true, it's more about the bad dollar/euro exchange rate than the appeal of the cars.
The M35 has proven itself to be just as much as an "ultimate driving machine" as the BMW. The RL, and GS, while great cars, just cant play in that league. If you're looking for any fun, you should really cross the Avalon off your list.
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111111298686583401,00.html?mod=pj%5Fautos%5Fhs%5Fcoll%5- - Fleft
The BMW has a nice trunk, but maybe this isn't a smart time to leave Lexus over such issues. Reliability ranks high for me. Still, I'm feeling very cheated by the new GS, in its new compact form. Like I'm being pushed out of the category because I'm too practical.
Don't most people actually put big/dirty/bulky things in their trunks?
Not in luxury cars. But this is nothing new. Folks have been getting gypped on space in the mid-size and compact luxury cars for years. The compact luxury cars are just plain impractical to own. Compare a 3-series or C-class to a Civic for space and you'll be surprised to note that the Civic is much more spacious (and practical). The mid-size luxury cars are barely better. The interiors of those things are jokes. I always knew the 5-series was miniscule inside, but it wasn't until a few months ago that I found out it is EPA classified as a COMPACT!!
Anyway, on topic, Lexus really cheated the consumer with the new GS. Not only did they make the trunk opening smaller, but they also made the TRUNK smaller! The back seat was tight before and I think it's a little tighter now. In essence, to buy the new GS is to pay more for less.
Now would be the time to get a sweet deal on an '05 GS430. You'll get more car for a lot less money. This new one looks too much like an Avalon, anyway.
I hate that I'd be encouraging Toyota designers to continue more of the same bad behavior by buying their 06 GS, but its still high on my list. I guess I'm just not impressed enough with the present competition ( in areas that matter most to me) to switch brands just yet. Still stalling.
I know the GS has more gadgets but which one takes a corner better and performs better?
jo2
530i, no question.
If buying a car was all about these two criteria, then BMW should sell kadzillion cars... and be the undisputed mass-market automobile compnay in the world !
Alas....
Can you please come up with slightly MORE reasons for your car buying decision than cornering ? Performance is too broad a subject, do you mean handling, driveability, straightline speed, overall balance, drag-racing, slalom, 0-60s, 1/4-mile, etc... what ????
I am however a big gadget person - all of the new things in the GS intrigue me. Also, I hear that the GS was built with the 5 series as its benchmark.
I drive a very winding canyon every day to work with lots of quick turns. Usually staying under 60mph but taking turns very fast. So my question remains - which takes a corner better?
Is there a list of voice commands?
Which features of the NAV system can be operated while driving (Driver versus Passenger)?
can you rate the handling on a scale of 1 to 10 of both cars?
the bmw 530 and the lexus gs300....
that would be very helpful....
jo2
Also, those orange backlit dials and buttons just didn't seem to belong in a luxury car. Not very refined at all. Maybe its just a guy thing and not intended to appeal to women.
the bmw 530 and the lexus gs300....
that would be very helpful.... "
530i: 10
M35: 9
GS300: 7
The handling of the GS was too light and boosted, and didn't feel as precise. Just my opinions, of course.
The M is tuned for sport not so much luxury, although it does have quite a nice luxury appointment. Besides the lighting of the gauge, the doors are tinny and poorly sound-proofed. It sure does get up and go, and drives with a lot more fun.
The GS is the more matured and refined car, while the M is the pure sport player, with little frills. Your choice....
Then you know the deal.
"I am however a big gadget person - all of the new things in the GS intrigue me..."
The GS is not that gadgety IMO. Many of its functions are hidden away for a clean, crisp look. But you'd find everything working flawlessly.
"which takes a corner better?"
I see a test drive in the cards for you.... The M45, GS430 and the 530i/545i. Should be fun around your neck of the woods.
And I won't put much stock in other's grading either. Best you find out yourself, IMO.
I wouldn't really agree with that. The doors are not tinny at all, and the soundproofing is fine. You do hear the exhaust, but that's not from poor sound proofing.
M
Also agree with your numerical rating of the handling on the 530i and GS300. Have recently test-driven both on several occasions and, IMHO, the 530i was noticeably better.
Perhaps the "perfect" car would be the BMW with Lexus quality/reliability!
Martin T.
thanks for the rating it helps tremendously
and thanks to all that posted to my question - really a great resource you guys...
jo2
jo2
And to me too. As I wrote in my test drive, turn on the radio, put in mid-level volume, step out of the car, close the door and you'll hear every single tune from outside. Very poor sound proofing. I don't think Infiniti spent any amount of time or money in this area. They'd rather put their time and money where it mattered (to them), the sportiness and performance areas. Can't say I blame them since they nailed both quite well.
Overall, the M is a winner regardless. Just nit-picking on my part....
That's my feeling on the heavy door feeling, that it's mostly a factor of how "tight" or how "loose" the hinges are.
One thing about the M, it's a bit too heavy IMO. If it shed about 200-300 pounds, that would be great. Lexus did a great job with the light weight of the GS.
My problem with the M is that center console with all those white buttons and the lighting of them and the whole dash at night, but then again thats just me. I'd have to drive the car extensively to see if it has a weight issue, had never noticed that.
M
As a woman, I am not crazy about the lighting either but all things considered, that is the least of my concerns. I am still debating between the M35 and GS300-if they could combine the refinement of the Lexus with the the handling of the M35 I would have the perfect car!
The quiet good manners of Lexus with the strengths of the M35 under the hood.
Maybe in time for my next car, but sadly not this time around.
That would be either the 2007 GS350 coming to a dealership near you in 18 months, OR the 2007 GS450h arriving next spring. Give or take, a year or so from now, you will get a very unique (hybrid 3.5L motor), powerful (300+ hp), fuel efficient (27+mpg), refined (solid build, quiet, etc) GS with class-leading HP and torque. Cannot get any better in this class, IMO.
But, if you cannot wait a year for this car, I'd say get the M35 and see if the '07 GS meets the need and then trade-up for it. Won't hurt your wallet more than a few nickels !!
lexus.letstalk.com