Lexus GS 300/GS 430

bartalk3 · April 2005

Hamilton: Thanks for the reference to the GS review. Very thorough.

2bdriven · April 2005

The review you referred to at www.internetautoguide.com is the same review that Lexus posted on the 2006 GS web site over a month ago. Unbiased review, I don't think so.

turnbowm · April 2005

The 2006 GS300 trunk space, at 12.7 cu.ft., is 2 cu.ft. LESS than last year. Not even sure that I could get a set of golf clubs in there, which is a deal-breaker for me.

Martin

drtravel · April 2005

Toyota announced that the Highlander Hybrid price will be $9,000 higher than the normal engine. Hmmm....if the mileage increases by 10 MPG and gas costs $5.00 a gallon you'll make your money back in only 18,000 miles.

jhamilton1 · April 2005

2bdriven,

Hadn't seen the article previously. The following statements are direct quotes from it:

0 "the seats don't match-up to that grip (complaining that although the car handles well, the seats aren't up to the task of holding the driver/passengers securely in place);

0 "the backseat knee room is a little tight."

0 "the Lexus experience might be a bit of a bore." (what the author had to say about the driving excitement [or lack thereof] of the new GS);

0 "when we were told the GS would make us forget about the BMW driving experience it had our tastebuds flipping into overdrive and hungering for a spicier kind of road cuisine than we'd come to expect from Lexus. We're still waiting."

I find it surprising Lexus published this article in advance of the showday for the new GS in light of the preceding negative remarks. But, hey . . . maybe they're just a painfully honest company.

cybersol · April 2005

Toyota announced that the Highlander Hybrid price will be $9,000 higher than the normal engine. Hmmm....if the mileage increases by 10 MPG and gas costs $5.00 a gallon you'll make your money back in only 18,000 miles.

I think you might want to double check your calculations. For example, if the mpg increased from 20 mpg to 30 mpg it would take 108,000 miles to get your $9,000 dollars back at $5 per gallon. 108,000/30*5 = $18,000 in gas for the hybrid versus 108,000/20*5 = $27,000 for the normal one, so you have finally managed to save $27,000-$18,000 = $9000 dollars in gas by the time you have driven 108,000 miles. And that is with gas prices over double what they are now.

Enjoy, cybersol

bartalk3 · April 2005

Trunk space: not big enough for golf clubs, but just right for my bowling ball. Thanks, Lexus

drtravel · April 2005

Oops....left out a zero....better proofread next time : (.

I was trying to be a little sarcastic because these hybrids just don't make economical sense yet. I thought a $9K premium was a bit much.

boomsama · April 2005

Go here:
[url]http://www.lexus.com.au/GS/default.asp[/url]
Then click "THE NEW GS: ITS ALIVE", a new window will open, and select "Watch TVC" up the top right. Enjoy!

adb3 · April 2005

With the amount of folks on this board touting the M's and the Ms during well on comparo tests one would think that the GS's would be dead in the water. Well, as usual, car mags and people with opinions that don't actually own the vehicles in question don't sell cars. The consumer in the market place will determine the winners and losers. I'm not going to get in an argument as to which car is better. All I know is that my GS430 is what I expect of a Lexus and more. It's gorgeous, refined, powerful enough, and has enough pinnace to go toe-to-toe in the worlds of Merc & Bimmers.

As for sales, it's still early and the jury is still out, but March sale results are in:

RL-----1376

M------2253

GS----3209

It'll be fun to watch how things progress.

alpha01 · April 2005

Actually, that math is way off? The HL Hybrid is not even close to $9000 more than a similarly equipped V6 Highlander. Making apples to apples comparisons withing the vehicle line shows differences around $2500-$3000.

~alpha

hpowders · April 2005

Not enough room for my clubs but just enough room for 2 boxes of golf balls.
Hey thanks Lexus!

lexusguy · April 2005

Yeah $9K seems a little outrageous to me as well. That would be a bigger difference than RX330 to RX400h, which wouldnt make much sense.

indiana97 · April 2005

I currently drive a 2004 RX 330. I have had two Lexus' prior to my RX330 including a 2001 GS300. I am quite impressed with the new GS300 and would like to buy one by the end of the year. I have been reading forums here and at Club Lexus. I have a problem thinking that people are paying list for the new GS300. There is over a $6500 difference between the invoice and the MSRP on the base GS300 prior to adding options. With options the MSRP over invoice can go up over another $1000. If I remember there is also a 2% to 3% holdback for Lexus dealers. I feel that Lexus has really increased their % difference between invoice and MSRP on the GS300 when considering the % of difference with previous models. Anyone who will pay list for a Lexus GS300 will get hit big time in the future when they go to trade it in. I would think that within the next six months the hype will die down and there will be $3000 to $4000 discounts off the MSRP. If not then it will happen when the GS330 is released. This has been true with the RX330 and the prior GS300. Considering what Lexus Dealers want to give for a Lexus trade-in I for one feel the $6500 + over invoice is excessive. As long as there are those who will pay it they will continue to get it. I am capable of buying a new GS300 now at MSRP but I for one feel Lexus is being excessive in the % of profit they feel they should get. I will continue to be a Lexus owner but feel I can put off getting my new GS.

tinypoem · April 2005

I live in Southern California and got a quote today from an LA area dealership for $2000 below MSRP. Is that a decent price for this area? I was wondering if anyone had luck getting it for any less in SoCal.

bartalk3 · April 2005

Tinypoem: What so. Cal dealership can you recommend that quoted you $2,000 below MSRP?

ipsadoodle · April 2005

Sheehy Lexus in Annapolis, Maryland will make a deal..try it.

tinypoem · April 2005

Longo went $2000 below. Also, as mentioned earlier in a this thread, Westminster is quoting $1500 off MSRP right off the bad in an email blast sent to me. Im wondering if anyone is willing to do any better though.

bartalk3 · April 2005

Longo is the biggest Lexus dealer in the country, no?

otguy · April 2005

Hey,
According to several dealers in the San Francisco Bay Area, 2006 GS 300 come in three levels:
#1 No NAV,
#2 Mark Levinson sound and NAV, and
#3 Mark Levinson sound, NAV, and upgraded wheels.

I went to the Oakland dealer today and noted the window sticker prices and options for the first 2 levels as follows....

#1 No NAV
$42,900 base
+ $525 automatic rain wipers
+ $210 rear sun shade
+ $1,000 sun/moon roof
+ $200 vented seats
+ $59 cargo net
+ $69 trunk mat
+ $66 wheel locks
+ $650 delivery & handling
--------------
= $45,679 MSRP

#2 Mark Levinson sound and NAV
$45,679 (level #1 above)
+$ 4,030 Mark Levinson w/Nav
+$ $500 Parking Assist sonar
---------------
= $50,209 MSRP

What really sucks is that all the dealers I spoke with say I cannot get the NAV systems without also upgrading to the Mark Levinson sound system, "they just don't come that way". The standard sound system with 10 speakers is plenty good enough for me. I don't need 14 speakers. The problem is, my wife really wants the NAV system. According to the Lexus website and brochoures, the NAV system w/ parking assist should be available for $2,250 MSRP rather than paying $4530 ($4,030 ML&NAV + $500 Parking assist).

Has anyone tried special ordering a GS300? If I special order, will I weaken my negotiating position - end up paying full MSRP?

Thank you for any advice in advance!

otguy

bartalk3 · April 2005

You can factory order a Lexus GS any way you want it. Dealers don't want to do this, but it can be done if you find the right dealer. it may take 3 months or even a bit longer, but you can have it equipped as you want it. I asked a local dealer whether I could order the NAV w/o the M.L. and she said fine. Don't know whether that would weaken or strengthen your price negotiations.

jhamilton1 · April 2005

ot guy,

Found a similar situation at the Dallas dealers. Bought my GS that "stickered" at $50,360 equipped with the Mark Levinson, etc. In trying to deal with my sales person I was initially confused, too. Their GM's explanation was that for the first few months the GS will be delivered to them in the "packages" you were told about. For special orders it will take 3 months or so to get your car. It appears he was shooting straight inasmuch as that's the only way I've seen any of them equipped. It's kinda' a "loaded" or "unloaded" choice, initiall.

Incidentally, though, we LOVE the car. Our biggest problems are associated with the fact that it's soooo computerized we're having a hard time grasping everything it'll do! The regular manual is over 600 pages, and then there's the GPS manual that's about 200 more! I've read through the things 3 times now and am STILL struggling. Making a list of questions to get answered when I go back to the dealer for my permanant tags.

LOL :surprise:

tinypoem · April 2005

Actually, just got better pricing from another LA area dealership for more than $3000 off MSRP. Will probably get it there.

statman · April 2005

Can any new GS owners comment on the sound quality of the Bluetooth phone through the car's speakers/mic? Heard there are sound quality issues with the M35.

statman · April 2005

Here is a direct link to the internetautoguide review.

http://internetautoguide.com/reviews/45-int/luxury-cars/lexus/gs300/2006/index.html

It was very good but a little too long.

sacguy · April 2005

I have read all the reviews I can find and there is almost unanimous praise for the new Infiniti M over the Lexus GS. What else, besides a comfort level with Lexus service and reliability, caused any recent purchasers to pick the GS over the M??

Thanks for your input!!

bartalk3 · April 2005

Tinypoem. We all thought dealers would stick with MRSP for months, especially considering the strong initial sales of the car. Apparently not. Congratulations. What dealer now offered you $3,000 off sticker? Considering the spread between invoice and sticker on this car, dealers can certainly afford that kind of deal.

lexusguy · April 2005

The GS really appeals to a different buyer. Clements may try to claim its the "5 killa", but its not. Wether thats a bad thing at all depends on what you want out of the car. The Lexus isnt the fastest, it doesnt brake the best, and it doesnt handle the best. If thats what you want, the M has your name all over it. The GS is about perfection, rather than passion, as C&D would say. I think the GS's most direct competition is RL and E. The M is more inline with A6 and 5 series.

janeg2 · April 2005

sacguy-

I haven't bought the GS just yet but I'm closing in on it. After that first look at the GS, I really tried to like the M35 for its better trunk opening and more roomy back seat. I drove it several times in different weather conditions.

However, I just could not accept the conspicuous noise on acceleration which I think would continue to be annoying, especially coming from the quiet ride I have come to love in my 98 GS. Sure the car has power, but fortunately power does not have to include sounds effects.

I didn't like the orange dials and glowing buttons, I want all of the functions to be there, but not in such a flashy layout. Also, the dull finish wood trim was just not something I could appreciate.

I didn't like the feel of the steering wheel. The stitching on the inside edge is raised and rough feeling, even just compared to other leather steering wheels, nor did I like that lump on the left and right side. I can't imagine any value to me in either item in normal driving conditions.

I didn't like the armrest design which, in order to be under my elbow, would slide right into (or over) a drink in the driver's cup holder - leaving only one usable space. Not to mention the split up the middle center opening - not all that user friendly in its design.

I had difficulty seeing the nav screen with my sunglasses on, and then there was still considerable glare on the screen such that the salesman kept putting his hand up over the screen to kill the glare so we could read it. (I need to check this on the GS, as well.)

Subjective though my list may be, and it is the short list, things about a car that are irritating to the senses will diminish the pleasure of driving that car. I know from reading in this forum that there are those who would actually choose the M35 because of, or in spite of, some of the very items that I consider negatives.

These are both really fine cars. They were obviously designed, however, to please rather different drivers.

dmcmahon · April 2005

I found the pricing very confusing. I was getting
different information from different dealers and
on-line sources as to what the "base" configuration
was and cost. The following inconsistent facts
turned up:

1. The base MSRP for the GS300 is $42,900
2. Dealer invoice is closer to $38,500
3. There are only two configurations available now
4. The base configuration includes sunroof, rain-sensing wipers, etc.
5. The price with sunroof, etc. is around $45,600

So, the confusion is over what the baseline actually is.
I requested some quotes on line, most dealers in my
area (San Francisco) were quoting maybe $1k off the
$45k base, one dealer quoted me $1k off the $42,900.
So I ended up with the base model GS300, including
sunroof, rain-sensing wipers, etc. for $41,900. Probably
could have gotten it for under $40k if I'd been willing to
wait (but I needed a car ASAP).

I love the car. It's as solid as a bank vault, quiet and
luxurious. Interior appointments are what you'd
expect from a Lexus. The gauges and controls
are clear and easy to operate, all classic Lexus;
there are no cheesy glowing colors. The car is
a bit too electronically automated for my tastes, I
sometimes feel like the car's in charge of me rather
than the other way around (girlfriend's nickname for
the GS: "carbert"). The V6 purrs when you ask it for
power, there's no harsh engine or road noise in the
cabin. Handling is decent for a sedan this size, but not
outstanding. There seems to be plenty of power for
real-world driving situations. Gas mileage is impressive
for a car in this class, which I think is going to matter
more than most of you probably think in the next
few years. I'm getting a real-world 20 mpg in mostly
city driving. The Flint Mica exterior coupled with the ash
interior is, well, beautiful given the lines of this car.

I have to echo the negatives re. interior space
and trunk space. I'm 5'11" and long-waisted,
and I just barely can fit comfortably into the
car with the seat down as far as it can go.
Interestingly I'm not so cramped when seated
in the passenger seat, and I find there is plenty
of headroom for a guy my size in the back.
I think Lexus needs to figure out how to get
the driver's seat down by another 0.5-1.0 inch.
The trunk space is severely limited and the
rear wheel wells intrude into the space in a way
that makes it difficult to see how you could get
more than 1 or 2 full-sized suitcases in it. The
opening also ridiculously cramped, a feature
sadly shared with many sedans these days.
I could use a bit less styling and a bit more
space, though with a rear-drive car you are
going to sacrifice some space for handling.

I agree with others who say this car is targetted
at a different buyer than some of the competitors.
If I'm typical of other Lexus buyers, then we value
the luxury appointments, quiet interior, and above
all reliability, and then we want a decent level
of performance and handling. If a hybrid version
of the powertrain had been available, I'd have
gotten it, so I expect that car to be a strong
seller when it's available. Toyota's hybrid
technology is #1.

bartalk3 · April 2005

Good summary of the car's virtues and vices. You paid $41,900 with sunroof, etc?? I don't figure how that's $1,000 off sticker. It's more like $4,000.

dmcmahon · April 2005

That's my point. There seems to be some confusion
about what the base MSRP actually is. Most dealers
were quoting $44.5k, $1k off the MSRP that includes
extra charges for those options. My dealer sold me
the car for $1k off the "base" price of $42.9k, and
said the "base" car includes the sunroof, rain-sensing
wipers, etc. (According to him, the only other config
was the $50k+ with Mark Levinson, DVD nav, etc.).
It's possible he just made a mistake, but then he
wouldn't have sold me a car if he hadn't, and he
still made a nice profit versus the invoice of $38k+

http://www.autobytel.com/content/research/vir/index.cfm/series_id_int/39299/make_vch/Lexus- /Model_vch/GS

txagy1 · April 2005

Is it just me, or does the 9 spoke upgrade wheels on the GS300, not worth the $2700?

alpha01 · April 2005

There is a very favorable review in a Car and Driver comparison test of 8 $55,000 sedans. It is the May issue and should be available on newsstands soon. The GS430 did not win, but it clearly earned respect. (I dont want to ruin it for everyone).

~alpha

lexusguy · April 2005

An Acrobat version of this review has already been posted a few times. Its out. The GS got 3rd place behind RL and M.

bartalk3 · April 2005

dmcmahon:

Your dealer is very bad at arithmetic! The base price of the car is something like 42.9 plus 650 or so destination. The sunroof is $1,000 and the rain sensing wipers, etc. at least $500. Plus all the other misc. options included probably brings it up to 44 or 45, as you say. Check out sticker prices for the car and options on Edmunds, Kelly (kbb.com), ConsumerGuide.com, etc. You got a terrific deal.

Who is this dealer? Maybe he'll make the same mistake twice!

jhamilton1 · April 2005

sacguy,

In an earlier e-mail I explained that we bought the GS because of our past experience with Lexus (this is our 3rd one) and because Infiniti was about $2.5K more expensive to trade than was Lexus . . . and, the vehicles were VERY similarly equipped. I went on to say that although we were concerned that Infiniti's service level(s) might not be as favorable as those we'd experienced from Lexus, had the price to trade been the same, we would have taken a chance and gone with the M. We really liked it a lot. I hasten to add, however, so far we're really pleased with the GS. It's all we've come to expect of a Lexus vehicle.

jhamilton1 · April 2005

statman,

The BlueTooth system works extremely well in our '06 GS. We chose the Motorola V551 and our service is through Cingular. The quality of the sound, both within the car and on the other end of the call, is excellent. As a matter of fact, it's the best we've experienced since the time we had a phone permanently "installed" in an automobile several years ago . . . before the days of cell phones. We're having none of the issues expressed regarding the BlueTooth in the M's.

dmcmahon · April 2005

I'm posting this to replace an earlier posting that was deleted. Actually my dealer never claimed the price was $1k less than MSRP. I requested some quotes from local dealers using one of the on-line services, and this dealer had the low price of just under $42k. I'm afraid it was me who was confused - I just made an assumption that this was $1k less than the MSRP. I got confused because all dealers I talked to told me there were only 2 configs on the RWD GS300, and I just assumed that the "no nav" config was equivalent to the "base" config as seen on various web sites where I went to look up the dealer invoice on this car.

Now that I've hopefully quashed any implication that my dealership doesn't know how to crunch the numbers, I think it's OK to post the info: I bought my car at Lexus of Serramonte. The TOS do not allow me to post the salesman's name, but I was treated well, think I got a good deal, and I would definitely recommend both him and the dealership.

I believe the car includes all of the stuff from the "no nav" package listed in post 1871. It has the sun roof, the rain-sensing wipers, wheel locks, and all the mats. The only item I'm not 100% sure of is the rear sunshade - I have a button for it but I've not actually tried it. As for the "destination charge", all I can say is that I did not have to pay extra for anything resembling it, e.g. no "dealer prep" etc.

If you're not from the Golden State, please know that in California you have to pay the full sales tax (of 8%) on vehicle purchases. Add $300 for registration fees (based on the vehicle price and therefore a form of property tax) and my out-the-door price on the car was around $45.6k. At least the sales tax is deductable now.

adb3 · April 2005

I concur. I have the same phone through the same provider and the overall tele/cell phone operation both calling and receiving is excellent. I couldn't be happier.

adb3 · April 2005

You would think after owning 3 previous Lexus vehicles that I wouldn't be surprised by the legendary quality and workmanship. But I have to report that my GS430 is a really, really well-made car. One reason (but certainly not the only reason) I went with the 2006 430 instead of waiting on the 450 or 460 is that in my experience Lexus does a stellar job with quality and workmanship on the next generation of their vehicles. My wife's RX330 is a prime example of that and that's why the 330 is the first Lexus vehicle to sell over 100K for a CY and is still going strong. The 330 is a significant qualitative improvement over the previous 300, as the continued demand attests.

As for my 430, even though it is steeped in electronics and gadgetry, everything works as advertised, every time--no false indicators, failures or glitches. And let me tell you, this baby is solid through and through--chassis, integrity & feel are all top-notch. BTW, the 6-speed tranny is making a noticeable difference (improvement) in gas mileasge, particularly during hwy driving.

I think most would agree that even at this price range reliability is a significant factor. And for those who are researching with the intent of buying a vehicle in this car segment let me inform/remind you that the GS series has been rated by JD Powers as the top mid-size luxury car in quality and workmanship for the last 2 years running. With that in mind, I can unequivocally state that the 3rd Gen GS is leaps and bounds better. I understand the quibbling about Lexus not raising the ante enough in the HP and driver dynamics wars, but IMO when the dust settles this baby will be left standing with few equals.

Just my 2 and probably to some worthless cents.

lexusguy · April 2005

Lexus' inteiror designs have always been good, but it was the 2004 RX330 that really brought them up to the level of industry leader Audi. The theme that started there seems to be continuing into GS and now IS, and I have to say, I do like it. The LS and ES are the last examples of "old" Lexus design themes, and I am very excited to see what they do with these cars, especially the LS.

medpedsdoc · April 2005

I am surprised that the majority of the posts comparing the GS 300 AWD are to the M and the BMW 5 series. I'm not a big fan of the 5 series and there is no Infinity dealer within an hour of me making service hassles a deal breaker. I'm debating between the A6 and the Lexus. With options, they cost-out about the same. Reliability makes me lean toward the lexus. Any thoughts?

adb3 · April 2005

Back in the day, I owned an Audi and thank goodness the brand has come a long way since then. Audi has been a standard bearer in interiors and it's exteriors are not bad either. However, reliability has been very spotty and for that reason Consumer Reports still will not recommend as a buy. If reliability is important to you then the GS has a much more stellar track record.

howardg1 · April 2005

I have been comparison shopping cars for several weeks now, and have driven the Acura TL and RL, the Infiniti G and M, the new Toyota Avalon, and the Lexus ES and GS. First, I dont buy cars lightly, my newest car is 12 years old. Tend to buy high quality, reliable autos, and then keep them. Started out thinking that I would spend in the low to mid $30,000, and was doing fine until I made the mistake of test driving the GS while looking at the ES. What an impressive auto. Suddenly was in the mid-$40's.

At that point, the Avalon, Infiniti G, ES and TL lost their appeal, but the potentials now included the RL and M. After driving all, I feel the Lexis is simply the "class of the class." Dont get me wrong, the others are all nice, and maybe more powerful, but none have the overall quality, refinement, class, and historical reliability of the Lexus. The Lexus interior simply makes all others look cheap! I would like to purchase the GS 300 AWD, but am now looking to get a "fair" price.

The "standard" GS 300 AWD no nav. package around here includes the sun roof, rain sensing wipers, run flats, heated seats, ect, with a sticker (inclu. $650 destination charge) of about $47,400. So far, not a lot of success getting much movement off the sticker.

Someone mentioned that the Annapolis, MD Lexis deal was dealing. What kind of deal were you offered at any MD or VA dealer on the GS? Secondly, anyone have an experience with ordering their GS, and the 3 month wait? Work OK, able to get exactly what you wanted, and how was the pricing (was it tougher to negotiate when placing an order rather than buying from dealer stock)?

Thanks, need some help, havent purchase a car in awhile!

ipsadoodle · April 2005

I went online about a monthago..and Sheehy Lexus in 'annapolis came right back with a $1500 discount..they quoted sticker price and their price...the saleswoman was very friendly and helpful.my guess is they will do better than that..go visit the dealer..see the car..price it with what options you wamt. then say (when you are ready to buy) I will buy this car for $4000 off sticker...listen to the response and walk away...they will call you back to negotiate..if they are smart..you can make a deal......

lexusguy · April 2005

Do you have an Acura shop near you?

jhamilton1 · April 2005

howardg1,

When I was negotiating for my new GS300 the thing that seemed to get THE most attention from the salesperson and the sales manager was my mentioning the fact that I had settled on buying one of two cars. Theirs (the GS) and "the new Infinity M". Once said, they began to sharpen their pencils. Not sharp enough so, I "walked". Before I got home (25 minutes from the dealership) I had gotten two calls, sweetening the pot. At home received yet another call that night. The following morning they called again inviting me to, "Please stop by just one more time. We're sure we can get together." I went in the following day, presented them with a "final" offer, "before going to Infiniti again." and they took it . . . on the spot.

Moral of the story . . . use the "M" word liberally. Incidentally, we lover the GS. It's our 3rd Lexus.

Good luck!

drtravel · April 2005

From Westminster, CA Lexus dealer

2006 LEXUS GS300
ALL IN STOCK VEHICLES-BASE MODEL
MSRP: $45,679 YOUR PRICE: NOW $43995
(price does not include tax, license or doc. fee in stock vehicles only)

with navigation & mark levinson sound system:
MSRP: $50,209 NOW $47,995 (in stock vehicles only)

chrisg1 · April 2005

I told Longo Lexus that I wanted to special order a Cypress Pearl w/black interior as it comes w/tan interior; they called me back today and said the factory would not do a special order. Where is dealer located who would do a special order for you?

Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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