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Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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Comments

  • jim20jim20 Member Posts: 10
    I recently attended an event called the Lexus Taste of Luxury. In addition to the Lexus line, they also had BMW's, Mercedes, Infinity, and other cars. They had set up a autocross course so that each car could be driven more aggressively. I was impressed with the 2005 GS430. It handled much better than my '96RL (what wouldn't), and had a great interior. It didn't float, but that nose is a bear in a 180 degree turn. The LS430 (with the sport suspension & 18" wheels) was surprisingly good. Of course, the handling winner was a 545i, without a sport package. It was so good that I can almost overlook its ugly interior and idrive.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Unfortunately, the "Eurosport" LS is near impossible to actually buy. I'm hoping Lexus increases the sport factor a bit (or at least makes it a more widely available option) in the next car.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    The GS is to be released in Australia in March 2005.
  • jim20jim20 Member Posts: 10
    Have you driven a Eurosport LS? I thought it handled as well as the GS with 17" wheels. There were three different tracks at the Lexus Taste of Luxury: SUV, Luxury/Sport and Luxury. The GS and 545 were on the Luxury/Sport course. Unfortunately, the LS was on the Luxury course which was not as twisty and therefore not a fair comparison. I have seen a number of the Eurosport around town. An increase in the sport factor will be nice, but I'll buy sometime in 2005. Since I keep cars for 8 years, the next LS will not be much of an option for a while.
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    As far I know, the 3 won't get redesign for another 7-9 months depend on when it launchs in U.S.A. That is long of months of "waiting".
    the 7 is pretty new, 5 is almost totally new, and so is the Z, They are all tanking. BMW has to suffer with that kind of sales, and the Euro vs $ factor. If the sale of 3 is as terrible as the 5, I will not be surprise BMW will lose $ like VW in a near few years. Just a few years ago, when VW launching its Passat and Jetta, they were on fire. Since the Golf tanked, they are in real mess.
    P.S. When BMW 3 launches, Lexus IS will sure be ready to crash their party!
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    I believe the next 3-series is due either in late spring or early summer of 2005. So it has about 6 months. And it is not rare for sales to start slowing down 6 months or more before a new generation hits the lots.

    The 7-series' styling has not gone over too well with potential customers, I would think. Ultimately that is why it's sales are dwindling and that is why it's getting somewhat of a major nip & tuck.

    The Z plays in a pretty limited segment. The roadster market isn't huge and there aren't that many players in it. I think the new SLK350 is taking a huge chunk of Z4 sales.

    You are right, relatively slow sales of the 5-series & 7-series do not bode well for the short term future. I wonder if it's the bangle styling and the I-drive which is turning customers off. I think Z4 sales will improve somewhat once the SLK350 has been on the market a few months.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Is the 5 really tanking? It doesnt outsell E, but from what I've seen, its the second best selling car in the segment.
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    Lexusguy, It could be the whole "segment" is getting smaller with more attractive in the "entry level luxury" class and the continue popular "lexury SUV". For 50-60K, there are alot of other choices out there than just a two years ago. Covette, 300C, GX470, X5, Cayenne etc.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Not.. really. Corvette isnt a new car. 300C is, but its not even close to $50K+. GX is new, but the bulk of Lexus sales are from ES, LS, and RX. RX and ML were around since 98, and the rest of the industry caught up by '00 or so.

    While G35 and TL are racking up great sales, the rest of the entry luxury segment that slots below 5, E, and A6 are not new either. E, as always, is number one, but looking at those october\november figures that were just posted, it doesnt seem like the 5 is doing all that badly, though it did seem like it took much more of a hit from A6 and RL than E did. The entries of M and GS could do more damage to 5.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    BMW 5 series sales went from 42,739 YTD 2003 to 40,468 YTD 2004. Still strongly in second place, but BMW can't exactly be happy that sales went down with a brand new model.

    With the M and the GS coming in 2005, and the RL, STS, and A6 just introduced, one can expect 5 sales to suffer even more in 2005.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Good point. Considering the previous car had been around since '97, sales shouldnt be going down for a new car. Also, the new 5 doesnt seem to be the media darling like the old car was. The A6 got a reasonably good review from C&D, but the door is still open for the champion of the segment. Perfect place for the M45 to slip into and humiliate BMW.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Or perhaps the GS could slip in.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I dont know about that. The GS will be very luxurious, but the mags have always favored sport over luxury, and I have little doubt that the Infiniti will out sport the Lexus.
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    Do you really think the GS shown in autoshow was luxury? Honestly, I think the ES interior is more luxury and tasteful.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Well, the new GS, of all the new cars in the mid-lux segment, I think has the most elegant, most luxurious looking interior. Lexus will definitely turn up the sport factor, but I dont think the car will out handle the M45 with all of its fancy Skyline GT-R derived tech.
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    Why do you continually short change the RL? You bring up the A6 review in C&D but fail to mention the RL's review in the same issue (I found that one a glowing review) and the fact the RL was just named ot C&Ds 10 best list and they dubbed it the best in segment over the A6, 5 series, E class, STS, etc.

    Not bad for a car you don't seem to think is worthy competition in that respective segment.

    I can only guess you feel the V8 engined cars are worthy of your comparison/discussion even though sales figures will show the V6s (GS300, M35, 530, E320 etc) will get the majority of the sales for those companies.
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    You think the new GS has the most elegant and luxurious interior of all the cars in the segment? Are you serious?

    I have Lexus blood pumping through my veins but I am unbiased enough to say the new GS interior looks pretty weak for a Lexus. NOt to keep beating the RL's dead horse but its interior looks way better to me than the GS and note that before I ever sat foot in the RL I thought its interior didn't look like it was all that luxurious but sure enough, it is.

    I have no idea what of the new GS's interior you feel is elegant and luxurious. The chrome trim around the nav/stereo section looks so out of place.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The RL's interior just doesnt do it for me. The center stack controls look like some boom box from walmart with the big goofy joystick.

    AS for the rest of the car, dont get me wrong, I think its a great value. But its also heavy, and has Honda's typical lack of low end torque and bad brakes, meaning street starts of 7+ seconds and of course the 180ft 70-0. Most people may buy the six, but I get the V8. Also, the exterior styling is just a bland, boring Japanese box. And thats coming from a long time lover of Japanese cars.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    I really like Lexus interiors in general, more than the highly touted Audi interiors, but I felt that the new GS interior was a bit of a letdown.

    Just from photos alone, I'll have to give the nod to the RL interior. Of course, I'll have to sit in a GS in person to really have an informed opinion.

    Honestly, I think all the interiors in this class are pretty good. It's kinda like deciding between an A- and a B+.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I agree with you on that, pretty much everyone did their homework and came up with a good design, except for 5, which I just plain hate, and STS, for its use of noticable cheese and lack of any kind of modern look.
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    I really can't agree on the GS interior look. Especially when it is black. There is just not too much wood too it. I can't wait to sit in one during the autoshow to confirm. So far, I don't like what I see, in or out. I hope they will have the IS on the Detorit show this year. Between GS and IS, I think I will pick the one with the look.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Im not really a ban of the black leather GS either. The wood is just too dark. However, the parchment leather GS looks very elegant, like a Jaguar.
  • rwoodsrwoods Member Posts: 129
    I sat in the BMW M3 when I shopped for the 3 series bimmer and found that car to be too hard on the behind. So I probably am not suited to the sportier cars in the market such as M5s, MB AMGs etc. The BMW 540i has always intrigued me because of the great writeups it receives but when I consider the age and inclinations of the car magazine writers I have to discount their advice. So for me the Lexus GS430 represented the sweet spot on the continium between sport (Porsch 911 and luxury, say a Lincoln Town Car. And because the Lexus is RWD with summer tires I also bought a Subaru Outback XT Wagon for the winter and for utility.
  • rwoodsrwoods Member Posts: 129
    I know the BMW 530i is not supposed to compete with the Acura TL but the Acura is awesome. My brother just shopped the BMW but bought the TL with a six speed and he raves about it. The clutch and the shifter are perfect. The stereo is great and the car only cost $32,000 with nav.
    I have to believe many BMW and E class buyers may be swayed by Acura. Prestige only goes so far.
  • rwoodsrwoods Member Posts: 129
    Rob,

    Here's a way to settle this discussion. Go test drive the RL and then try the BMW. Then report back to this board. I would be very interested in hearing what you think.

    Bob
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I agree with you about the M3. Its a little TOO pure for my tastes. I wouldnt buy an S2000 or a Lotus Elise either, as I like at least some small measure of isolation from the road.
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    That is exactly true. the competition doesn't come directly form the same category of automobiles. Every auto manufacture is going "sporty" this days, and everyone of them buy BMWs for benchmarking. That is going to be a problem for the BMWs because there are so many look-a-likes. That is why I think Toyota is very smart to develop the IS/ES GS/LS at the same time. the baby boomer are retiring, and not everyone of them likes a sport car!
  • jim20jim20 Member Posts: 10
    I have driven a 545 (without the sport package) and an RL with 18" wheels. The 545 was a little softer, but only a little. Minor bumps did not bother it, but it still took corners very well. The RL was crisper, almost harsh, and very quick. I felt the minor bumps. I want to drive an RL with the stock 17" wheels.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The 2005 Ten Best is now online. Two Acuras made the list, but only one BMW. No 5 series. I think I would've picked G35 over TSX though.
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    I will have to say Toyota is doing a good job keeping the information. even till today, there is different information regarding the V6, one auto mag cited what toyota applies for trademark or goverment regularation saying it is GS350 and GS460, and a GS450h later on. So let's say GS get a 350, will that be the same as Avalon? I hope not. Because later on all the Camry platform will be getting the 350 which Avalon will have right? They have to make the IS and GS use a different V6.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Well the official shortened brochure came out, and it had 3 models.

    GS300 RWD, GS300 AWD, and GS430 RWD.

     

    So these probably will not change until the GS reaches it's midlife.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    as boomsama said, they've aready announced the engines for the debut year. Those can and probably will change later on, but I know for sure theres no 4.6L V8 coming any time soon. A new V8 would come with the complete redesign of the LS at the earliest, which is '07.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    This week's Automotive News, an industry trade magazine, says in an article about Lexus that the new GS will have two engine options, a 3.5 V6 and 4.6 V8. If true, this is the first time I have heard something different from published information of a 3.0 V6 and 4.3 V8.

     

    The article also says a hybrid will be introduced, although the launch date has not been set (reports say next spring). It will be called the GS 450h and will team a 4.5 V8 with and electric motor, which sources say will have V12 performance with V6 fuel economy.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Would you be able to provide us with a scan of this article? Thanks.

     

    Another thing, I finally got to sit in the new A6 today. Wasn't as big as I thought it would be. The rear seats lacked support. I'm going to have a look at the GS since I personally have quite high hopes for it.
  • wco81wco81 Member Posts: 590
    Hmm, the kind of people who can afford a V-8 GS, would they really be that concerned with fuel economy?
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Yes they would. It's not like it's your sunday car. If you have a sunday car, that does say 7MPG but you only drive it for like one day, that's a different story.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Lexus is not designing its hybrids for maximum fuel economy. They know their customers really could care less wether gas is $1.80 or $2.20. They are designing them to get the performance of electric motors that make 100% of their torque from zero RPM onward, and also add some hp to make them as fast or faster as their competition, with fuel economy just being an added bonus. Have you seen how much torque the Honda Accord Hybrid has? Some 300+ft.lbs. From a Honda motor. Imagine if an already strong Lexus V8 was given the torque of diesel V-10, without the noise, smell, emissions, or cut to hp and rev range. Its brilliant.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    A New Zealand journalist has driven the new GS. Read about it here:

     

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3119672a30,00.html

     

    Enjoy
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Read an interesting article about Audi in Australia today. The managing director of Audi Australia said:

     

    "Lexus relies completely on the RX330 and they are not a premium range as we know it, They take a Toyota and put a Lexus badge on it and I believe it is cheating the customers."

     

    What do you guys think?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Hah! Audi relies on...oh right. They dont even have an SUV. Just that Allroad flop. Last time I checked a very large portion of Audi's sales are from A4 (I think even larger than BMW's 3 series sales) which is a very "entry-lux" car, and also has direct VW roots, as does the TT.

     

    Not that an Audi manager would have a biased opinion about a competitor or anything. I think he's probably just upset that the new A8 was soundly beaten by a mid cycle LS430 in C&D, that the new A6 has gotten reasonably good but not great reviews, that Audi's sales figures (at least in North America) STINK, and Lexus dominates them on service, reliability, and residual value. Audi's advantage has traditionally been AWD. Now everybody has that. What's poor Audi to do now?
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Very sour grapes from Audi!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The new GS had better be good. They will have formidable competition from the new Infiniti M 35/45 which debuts in late March/early April.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I'm sorry, I do not have access to a scanner. Everything about the new GS that was mentioned in the article is in my post. I hope that helps.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Dont forget Acura. Their car will have been out for months by the time GS actually hits showrooms.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The competition will be extremely fierce in this segment: the GS, the M and the RL. A great time to be shopping next spring and summer!
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    That is the same mag I was refering to. I have heard other people mentioned 3.5L engine. Nothing is certain until it is launched.

     

    Another note: IS will have 2.5L and 3.5L according to that same article and some other discussion. I think it is a MUST for toyota to share engine between IS and GS.

     
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Would the 3.5L engine be the same one as that in the new Avalon? It's used for FWD in the Avalon but would be used for RWD in the GS and IS.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Just checked my mailbox, and saw that I got the first brochure Lexus Australia is giving out. I don't have a scanner and my digital camera has flat batteries. I'll try get an image up a.s.a.p.

    Interesting that Lexus is beginning to release the information.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    image

     

     image

     

    Apparently many of these will be sent out between now and the official release, containing bits of information about the new GS. My camera isn't that good so you can't read the writing. It mainly goes on about AFS, EMV, and the rear view camera.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    What does the brocure say about the trim ? GS3xx or GS4xx ??
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