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Overall, I feel it's a pretty strong styling statement. The current GS looks old after almost 8 years on the market. ANd unlike the current GS, this one has a nice flowing shape. When I first saw the pics of the new GS, I did see a bit of Maxima in the rear but I see alot more 1st and 2nd generation big rump in it. I feel this is the best Lexus design since the original SC. I think the styling looks clean, uncluttered and muscular. There are really only 2 things I would change on the design, get rid of the chrome ring around the headlights and make the rear tailights a bit more unique in design. Even more important than the exterior I feel is the interior and here the GS hits a home-run.
I don't think Lexus ever said they were going to offer a manual and I don't think they need to to go after the 5-series. How many 5-series are sold with stick's anyway? I would guess around 5%.
With the exception of the design, which I think they shouldn't change anyway, I think alot of new features will get added. I think they haven't said everything it will have as new because it is still about a year away from production. That gives them alot of time to perfect features they may be working on.
Looks like Merc1 wants to gloat on a perceived Lexus failure with this release. Pls note that new evolutionary designs are pretty difficult these days. Many autos will have a mixture of their peers in their designs. That's just going to be the fact. Everyone knows that Nissan had been copying Lexus in its new releases - Altima and Maxima favoring the 1st and 2nd gen GS looks. So no biggie if their is a little Maxima in the new GS. But the new GS is a whole lot better looking than the Max, IMO.
The design is the same, but the styling has gone horribly wrong! Lexus put a heavy emphasis on the great new style of this car, so if they overpromise and under-deliver, it will be a first time.
They call it a sports sedan. Why?
DrFill
I'm not in denial, thats absurd. I'm just saying, you really cant write the car off as NOT A SPORTS SEDAN or whatever, prior to it ever being driven by ANYONE.
20% of 5 series have manual transmissions? Prove it. Also, please find the percentage of MB E class which have manuals. OH WAIT: ZERO.
IMO, BMW left the door open, and if this car drives as interestingly as it looks, Lexus is going to walk right through. But again, only time will tell.
~alpha
On what they promised I think they delivered. You can't mistake the front end for any other car and the side profile doesn't look like another car and frankly neither does the rear, except for the 1st and 2nd generation GS. I think it's a unique design and a good looking one at that.
As oac3 said, I think, people expected it to look just like the LF-S showcar. But let's face, that had totally unrealistic proportions! But I do think the production GS carries similarities. I see the front end resemblance, and the side resemblance.
"Pls note that new evolutionary designs are pretty difficult these days."
Wrong, it's revolutionary designs that are "difficult" to do and even more difficult for the public to accept, not evolutionary, which really means and update of the previous, which is what Lexus did...warm over the previous car with a unsightly thickish rear end section, nothing like the very lithe and airy concept car.
M
~alpha
theo2709
I think that the Avalon is named the Mark II in Japan.
THIS IS MISSING IN LEXUS.
I have driven the '04 LS430. Great, but not what I expected in terms of sporty driving.
The GS430. Ok. So you people say "well the LS isn't meant for sporty driving." Well folks, sorry to break this to y'all but the 545i in my opinion (for god sakes, even the 3) has a damn better character than the GS. The GS simply feels like a perfected-robot, designed just to "satisfy your whims".
Soooo... i was impressed with the concept introduced by Lexus, and for once, I was convinced maybe instead of trading in that ML for the Cayenne S- i should consider the next-generation GS; one look at the new so-called "evolutionary" GS made me do a complete 360-turn and back to the Germans.
Granted, it's probably going to turn out to be a great car, just like the current GS. But will it be revolutionary? For Lexus, maybe (honestly, it doesn't to me). Very-sporty (i mean, it's going to compete with the E500 and 545i)? I'll have to wait and test-drive it for myself to judge that. But from the looks of it, it's just another japanese-attempt from Lexus to try and "claw-and-chew-off" the car manufactures across the pond in Deutschland.
1989 LS400
1991 LS400
1991 SC300
1992 SC400
1995 LS400
1996 LX450
1998 RX300
1997 LS400
2000 LS430
-----
ML320 --> Cayenne S
S430 ---> 745Li
SL55 AMG ---> Next-generation SL-Class
Still miss Lexus, but after driving Mercedes-Benz, and particularily the SL55 vs. the SC430, don't see why i should be switching to Lexus for the time-being...
Well, off to a holiday in freezing NYC for a couple of days.
Just my thoughts.
i_Drive.
For the love of god, don't start another MB/BMW vs. Lexus argument; heard that sooooo many times.
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One comment, i_drive: You and who else consider the E500 "sporty"?
~alpha
Not being a Lexus fan, I dunno if Dr.Fill had unrealistic expectations, but the car unveiled at Detroit doesn't look even close to the concept car, which did look hot, so in that sense Lexus did undeliver.
Let's wait to see how the car drives. Hopefully it'll drive more like a BMW.
Regarding driveability of Benzes, they're not the most driveable but the top of the line models are so solid and have such powerful engines, you just feel like you're a driving one hell of a powerful machine, and I know a lot of people who love that feeling.
Lexus direction is about Luxury and green as in environment. You want 400 hp go get the AMG or M series.
The new GS430 will have a bump 30-45 HP with 2wd only. The GS330 will have a V6 255 HP with AWD. Everything Lexus is banking on is under the skin with new technology. From blue tooth and XM radio to new transmissions and safety features.
The following year Lexus will have a Hybrid V8 in the GS430 with AWD and improved performance. 0-60 faster than the current GS and 1/4 mile in 13.0 flat and 40 MPG city.
If you want poor fuel economy, gas guzzler taxes, and trips to the service department then Lexus is not for you.
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Such as the GS300 having a 3.0L 245 hp V6. I can't imagine Toyota giving the GS a smaller V6 than the ES330. It makes no sense. The hp figure might be true at about 245bhp, but I think the size in liters is more than what the initial press releases have said. That makes me think, maybe the GS430 won't be a 430 after all.
Better have the 6-speed stick from the start!
DrFill
Wow go get a GX470, talk about fuel economy. I need a tanker in my yard to keep it filled daily.
Wow go get a GX470, talk about fuel economy. I need a tanker in my yard to keep it filled daily.
You can go to www.wieck.com then click on "Public" on the left menu bar and then type in Lexus or GS or 2006 GS430. And you will get a ton of pics.
M
I'm glad you were waiting. It must have kept you up at night!!
How can one form an opinion on a car from pictures alone? kind of hard to without seeing one in person, driving one, sitting in one, testing one. Even the magazines haven't tested one yet.
From pictures though, I see a strong resemblance to the LF-S. Their are only 2 aspects which I do not like from the pictures. One is the chrome trim around the headlights and two is the rear tailights. The rear end does look slightly maxima-ish at the rear end from a side profile. Overall, it looks very nice. It's very clean, uncluttered, attractive shape. Much better than the cluttered look of the current GS.
M
M
"Joining the potent and refined 4.3-liter V8 will be an all-new 245-horsepower V6 engine replacing the current inline six."
Now the "all-new" part could simply mean the engine is new to the GS line up (replacing the I6), or it could literally mean this is an all-new engine.
From everything I've read this engine is new, having nothing to do with the 3.3 in the Lexus ES330. I also read somewhere (can't remember where though) that Yamaha helped design the 3.0 V6 that is going to be in the GS.
I also read that except for some exterior measurements and little things here and there, that the new Toyota Crown is close to the same as the new GS. Same platform, 3.0 V6, steering, 6-speed auto, etc.
The 3.0 V6 is suppose to use "dual" VVTi, something GM is suppose to be using in their new 3.6 V6 as well (using the same supplier?).
Bottomline, from what I've read, the engine is not used in anything else yet, but I could be wrong. I'm looking forward to the next IS300 so any info anybody has on this engine is appreciated.
Also my thoughts on the new GS. I think it's ok but not anything great either. I'm not really interested in cars like that but overall I think it's ok. Might look better in person so I'll wait.
The interior is kind of a letdown, but even worse is I've looked at some upclose pictures of the interior taken by people at the autoshow. The interior seems to be kind of cheap looking in certain areas. Also the seats seem to have leather on the outside part but the middle part looks to be cloth. Obviously this is pre-production so I expect them to fine tune the interior and get it up to the level it needs to be. I think in the end it'll be fine.
Will the other engine be reserved for the "AMG" version of the IS300 or will the IS300 do like the BMW 3-series and offer two normal engine choices? If so would they offer a 2.5 version and then the 3.0? If not then offering a 3.5 might shadow the base GS300. If they do offer a V8 I think that's for the "AMG" version and not as a normal choice.
I think the 2.5 in the Toyota Crown is the same as the new 3.0 V6, except in 2.5 form obviously. It offers both 2.5 and 3.0 versions. I know Lexus isn't playing the HP war but 2.5 might be a little low.
I think they should have given the GS300 a 3.5 version of the engine instead of the 3.0, which kind of has a mental effect on people seeing the ES330 with a 3.3 engine. But if the V8 is only 300hp then a 3.5 would be too close in HP.
Something just isn't right here. This is what the press release says.
"Preliminary Specifications
Wheelbase: 112.2 in.
Length: 189.8 in.
Width: 71.7 in.
Height: 56.1 in.
Engines: 3.0 liter V6 - 245 hp; 228 lb.-ft. of torque
4.3 liter V8 - 300 hp; 325 lb.-ft. of torque
Transmission: 6-speed sequential automatic"
I guess they might want to keep it close to 300hp so the souped up version ("AMG" version) will seem like a big jump in power.
Any thoughts?
In August 2005, Lexus GS350 GT is released (only in Japan at first?). Will have 300hp 3.5 V6 + 170hp electric motor. Will have AWD and estimated around 60mpg. This is due to supposed improvements in battery technology.
12 months later the LS500 GT is released. Will have 400hp 5.0 V8 + 200hp electric motor. Target will be Mercedes S600L. Estimated fuel mileage at 50mpg.
Later an IS350 GT will be offered with the same 3.5 V6 that is in the GS hybrid. However it says the hybrid may not be offered on the IS due to cost. It may offer some fuel-saving technology like engine stop and start systems though.
Toyota insider mentions due to cost that it will only be offered on more expensive cars at first, but plans are to offer hybrid versions in most of their cars in the Lexus and Toyota line-up.
DrFill
I also have doubts that this is the next Supra (in Lexus form) because I would guess the Supra in other countries would use the same platform as the new IS to keep the price in check. The IS coupe can take care of that spot in the US.
By the way, do you have any idea if in Japan that Toyota is willing to share platforms with both Lexus and Toyota cars or will they do like Infiniti does here and try to make Lexus have it's own platforms seperate from Toyota?
If Lexus does indeed have 3 different 2-door cars in their line-up and Toyota loses the Celica and MR2 then Toyota's line-up will seem like garbage. Why give Lexus so many 2-door coupes and then turn around and make Toyota the next Buick?
And B, I would wager a coupe version of the LF-S, to ape the G35/G35 coupe success. And a SC and SC Lite in it's next generation. It appears to me that Toyota MIGHT be getting the idea that the current SC is a little to soft around the middle, and could tighten up some.
As far as Celica and MR-S go, I don't dig either because of the lightweght engine, so when they give a Celica some real thunder, it will sell!
DrFill
"By the way, do you have any idea if in Japan that Toyota is willing to share platforms with both Lexus and Toyota cars or will they do like Infiniti does here and try to make Lexus have it's own platforms seperate from Toyota?"
Infiniti does not use all separate platforms from Nissan. The new QX, for example, is a Titan/Armada platform. Lexus only shares platforms with certain models like the RX (Camry), ES (Camry) and LX (TLC). Things will get very different in the next two years as Lexus is launched worldwide, including Japan. Lexus will not simply be rebadged Toyotas anymore, whereas Infiniti only exists in the US and Canada and will remain rebadged Japanese (and US) Nissans.