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Mazda MX-Flexa / Mazda5
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Comments
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/24/c01-283496.htm
Looks like we will get in in August 2005. That's GREAT!
The Detroit News article stated that the Honda FR-V is probably not coming here. I wonder why Honda has made that decision. Come on Honda/Toyota bring the Elysion, WISH and Corolla Verso!
Oh, here's a link that shows how the middle seats work...
http://response.jp/issue/2004/0925/article63974_1.html
Canada should get it by spring, I'm told...
Wonder what Toyota/Honda will do. Maybe take a wait and see if the 5 sells well. I'd still prefer a WISH or Elysion but if they don't come then there's the 5.
I spent all of my adult life in the Ol' USA but now thru several dumb decisions I find myself here in Guatemala for the rest of my life !!
As Barry Maguire would say " I'm Car Crazy " Six months ago I got fed up with my Chevy Blazer -- sold it for just a couple of pennys and bought a Mazda3 HB !! What a wonderful car -- the suspension is by far the best suspension I have owned -- and now I read it will be the same on the Mazda5 !!Well to make a long story even more painfully long -- the better half has taken a liking to my Mazda3 HB !! I was about to start negotiations for a Mazda3 Sedan for her and I found this Beautiful Mazda5 in the threads above !! My wife can take the Mazda3 HB and I'm happy for her !! I hadn't thought about a van but this is just the right sized van for this country !!
Let's see who gets there "5" first !!
Barry42
www.triplezoom.com there is an excellent article there !! Look for the part that mentions about two different configurations !! My Mazda3 HB is not the same sheet metal as the Mazda3 Sedan !!
Happy Hunting !!Barry42.
from Autoweek.
barry42 thanks for your comments about your 3. What is a Mazda3 HB? Good luck in Guatemala! Have you found your 3 holding up there with thr rough roads? How about the 2.3 liter engine. Does it have the power to go up the hills/mountains?
The roads here are terrible -- most trucks are overloaded - badly - and the right lanes are all broken up and some patched !! The 3's suspension is so well designed it takes the car thru the mess quietly !! The suspension is a little stiff for some people but it makes cornering sure and predictable !!
The motor is 1.6liters -- the tranny is automatic and with the car fully loaded it takes hills effortlessly, !!
Both the suspension and the motor - tranny combination would be perfect for the 5 !!
My only problem is I can't find out when the 5 is coming to the local dealers !!
Please tell me when you see the 5's arriving in the Ol' USA !!
Cheers !! Barry42.. - 1
I think these smaller engines do much better with an auto tranny !! My little 1.6 liter in the 3 revs more than I'm used to -- strong accelerating between 3000 and 4000 revs -- cruising between 2000 and 3000 revs !! The 2.3 liter hooked up to a 5 speed auto tranny sounds slick in a 5 !!
I saw somewhere that the Canadians are expecting the 5 in the spring !! We will just have to see !!
Cheers !! barry42.
At least the 5 appears to be a lot better than an Elysion or WISH or Verso -- what do you say vcarreras ??
Cheers !! barry42.
I don't know if this'll get many Americans out of compact SUVs, but I'll wish it luck.
"In North America, the MAZDA5 will have a 2.3 liter version of the MZR engine. These four-cylinder, 16-valve DOHC engines are matched with a smooth action five-speed manual transmission. A four-speed automatic is also available in select markets."
I take this to mean we get a 5 speed stick and a 4 speed auto optinal. Seems to make sense as these are the only Trannys currently used with the Mazda/Ford 2.3 that I am aware of.
FYI--If it makes a difference in highway fuel economy , the car manufacturer chose the wrong diff gear ratio !!
I think if they supplied the Mazda5 with a 5 speed tranny -- you would want a 6 speed -- the only thing is you probably couldn't afford to pay for it !!
More productively, your post inspired me to look into more details about the Mazda5 and its likely curb weight (not yet released by Mazda, as far as I know; FYI, the car's weight has an impact on the car's performance with a given engine-transmission combination...). As a result, it now seems quite unlikely that, as you claimed, "the motor is 1.6 liters -- the tranny is automatic... the motor - tranny combination would be perfect for the 5 !!"
Based on the best information available, the Mazda5 is likely to weigh several hundred pounds more than a Mazda6 sedan (see below) -- that may be too heavy even for the 2.3/four-speed automatic combination for many American consumers. You see, Americans like good acceleration AND low noise levels on the highway... and may not buy a vehicle that doesn't provide those characteristics. With a small-ish engine, the best route to acceptable acceleration and noise levels is more gears (thus, Honda's move from four speeds to five with its CR-V automatic and Accord automatic, for example).
For those interested in the details (developed using the excellent data at km77.com):
The European Focus C-Max (the Mazda's "C1" platform-mate) has a base curb weight of 1344 kg (w/ 1.6 liter gas engine) vs. a base Mazda6 (w/ 1.8 gas) weighing 1345 kgs So a C-Max and a Mazda6 in the same market weigh about the same. Relative to the C-Max, the Mazda5's wheelbase is stretched 110 mm (4 in.) and its overall length is up 170 mm (6 in.). (On top of that, it has more seats plus sliding rear doors -- I believe they add more weight vs. the hinged doors on the C-Max.) How much weight is the extra size, etc. is likely to add? The only Euro class competitor currently offering two wheelbases (to use as a gauge) is the C-Max-size Renault Scenic, which adds 130 kg (287 lbs.) in growing to the Mazda5-size Grand Scenic.
So if the Mazda5 does add a couple of hundred pounds relative to the C-Max (and, thus, to the Mazda6), is that a problem? Well, if the U.S. Mazda6's curb weight were a couple of hundred pounds heavier, the 2.3/four-speed automatic combination could be marginal for American tastes. In this context, it seems that the Mazda5 really could use that fifth gear for its auto trans. And, in one sense, it should not really be a question of cost/price: Honda is able to offer a five-speed automatic (along with ABS, side airbags, and curtain airbags) on the Accord for $ 16,955 and on the CR-V (with those same safety features plus stability control!) for $ 19,995.
Bottom line: real U.S. customers don't like to have to drive foot-to-the-floor too often (and there are many real-world situations -- like highway on-ramps -- where decent acceleration is a basic safety concern), or to have to glibly tell their spouse who's lamenting the engine noise at 75 mph on the interstate, "Who cares... just let it rev... it can take it !!" Let's all remember that the Mazda5 will need to compete in a competitive marketplace. Yes, it will bring some unique attributes about which I'm quite intrigued (having loved the practicality of the European class competitors when driving there). But my spouse wants better acceleration in our next vehicle (current car is '02 Accord -- 2.3 w/ four-speed auto) -- a Mazda5 won't end up in our driveway without it. And my household isn't the only one that values these attributes. *Mazda* will care if customers don't buy the Mazda5 due to disappointing acceleration or highway noise levels...
However my mistake has brought in excellent comments and what we the consumer are looking for. adu1 you hit the nail on the head with your comments above. Weight/power ratio will be an issue here. Ford/Mazda has to see this and introduce the correct product if not it will flop.
Honda and Toyota are beginning to put their 5 speed automatic in some of their 2.4 liter 4 cylinder vehicles and I'm sure they will be offering even more for the 06 model year. Mazda introducing the totally NEW 5 should put their latest technology in this vehicle. This includes a 5 speed automatic.
Does Mazda offer a 5 speed automatic in any of their other 4 cylinder products?
Let's hope they read the Edmunds Fourm.
FYI: In all your useless dissertation you missed one thing -- whether the engine is 1.6l,or 2.0l, or2.3l -- they all have plenty of power to drive each of the cars mentioned above with good acceleration and have a quiet engine for you !!That is if the gearing is chosen correctly !!
I'm afraid you are listening to too much hype given by some car manufactures !!
There only three possible reasons to want more speeds in an automatic tranny :
One : so you will buy the car !!
Two : so you can have hard acceleration -- but that won't satisfy your objective of good fuel efficiency and remember each time you add a set of gears you steel some of the torque and power from the driving wheels !!
Three : so you can go down the street and tell your friend that you have more gears than him !!
adu1 I'm really sorry that you don't use your talent to find ,for all of us , Specs ,options list,Interior and exterior colors available etc.
for the MAZDA5 !!
adu1 : You must learn to control your anger !!
I hold no resentment of you !!
Cheers !! barry42
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But let me tell you what is behind my comments !!
Many people wanting to buy a reasonable priced orential four banger have only experience driving american cars with V8 engines that have torque curves with the fat part in the lower rpms !! Habitually it is difficult for them to drive the 4 bangers at the higher revs where the max torque is and so they become disapointed with the acceleration capabilities !!
I went to the 3Z cite you suggested and really enjoyed the info I found there !! I know it was somewhat of a comercial but there is a lot of good data there !! I want more -- and if you can help me find it I would appreciate it !!
My main problem with your comments is this !!
A car manufacture trys their best to put a car on the market that people like and will buy-- I'm sure you know this !! From what I have seen so far , I like this crossover and I will buy It !!
{That is unless the specs has something I can,t Accept}But If I find something I don"t like I will go Quietly away !!
I think we have to trust the manufacture that he did the best job possible at ballancing all the design factors to provide acceptable factors !!
The only other thing we can do is go and have a test drive to help us make the buy or no buy decision !!
What am I trying to say !!Learn everything you can about a product before you buy !! If there is a feature you don't like go quietly to the other manufacturer and don't spoile for the rest of us by downgrading a product!!
Cheers !! barry42
But does anyone besides me (I reportedly have anger that rages so incredibly fiercely as to frighten children and the elderly) want to explain to the class why it might be, um, less than optimally insightful... to maintain that, regardless of transmission type or number of gears, "whether the engine is 1.6l, or 2.0l, or 2.3l -- they all have plenty of power to drive each of the cars mentioned above with good acceleration and have a quiet engine for you !! That is if the gearing is chosen correctly !!"
Mazda press release and triplezoom pics I've seen, as far as automatics go, show a sport-shift auto but it's only a 4 speed, as far as I can tell. Plus, all the press info to date says 5 speed manual/4 speed auto, though the pic in the link above clearly shows a 6 speed manual.
Other press info states that the Mazda5 will be responsive but not a "tire burner" (not their exact words but that's the impression I got).
I'm hoping the 2.3l engine, said to put out 170hp, will be tuned to deliver more torque than the versions in the Mazda6 and Mazda3. I do think a 5 speed auto would go a long way to maximizing the performance/fuel economy of this engine.
Bottom line, I want good performance (and the ability to tow a small (<1000 lbs) pop-up camper combined with excellent fuel economy (30 city 40 hwy would be nice) and a quiet, relaxed highway cruiser. If the 5 delivers on these, it'll be our next vehicle.
One possible explanation is that Mazda after the Pre-production with 4 auto/5manual had a change of heart and from the parts bin, decided to put the 5auto/6manual in !!That would make all of us happy !!
But, I think we need more evidence !! I'll be watching !!
Thanks again and cheers !! barry42
The 3 is really an excellent car, I just want more room, and now here it is. I have really liked this type of vehicle since driving Megane Scenic's in Europe several years ago. It's been a long time and congrats to Mazda for finally delivering the goods to us poor deprived North Americans
Well I decided to pull in first to the Honda dealership (next door to Mazda) to see the new Odyssey. They had two EX's and the salesman let me drive one. We could not believe the silky smooth engine/transmission and a ride that was incredible. The EX has things we don't need so asked about the LX. None in stock but could have one in less than a month. I asked about the price thinking it would be cost plus but no. Anyway purchased a Silver 05 LX for $25390 less our trade (93 Villager with 108K) which they gave me $1800. Hope to have the Ody in a couple of weeks for our drive from the Houston area to Atlanta and Florida.
I thought I could hold out for the Mazda 5 but with this trip I needed something now.
The Ody is large, but it does not feel that big. I am sure it will be huge next to a 5. Ody selling points were Honda reputation/durability, all the safety (side curtain protection) standard and what a drive. ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes, dual air all standard. I also own a 95 Honda Accord EX (100K) which hasn't given me one bit of problems.
FYI..a 05 Toyota Sienna LE equipped like the LX Ody was $27300!
I will keep in touch and let you know our impression on the Ody and how our trip goes. I will still be thinking about the 5 to see what Ford/Mazda decide with their engine/tranny combination.
Good luck..
so while the Ody would be nice (a luxury, even), the "5" should be a good fit, providing it has adequate power, relatively quiet cruising, good fuel economy and enough space for our needs. It looks like we'll have to wait until June, though I would think we'll get an up close look at the Toronto Auto show in February. Anyway, I'm sure you'll be more than happy with your Ody.
Guess what? I can hardly tell if this Mazda engine got any louder after passing the 3000 rpm mark, unlike the Toyota Corolla's 4 banger.
It's too bad Mazda is going with the 2-2-2 seating configuration. I really believe the 2-3-2 is critical for success. Yes, most won't use the middle seat, but having it allows people to use it in a pinch. North Americans buy cars and trucks in terms of what they might want to do, not what they actually need to (how many minivans actually haul 4x8s?).
liked them but thought they were a bit overpriced at the time (base model was more than a Caravan/Voyager (17+K vs 16K) and the AWD model was over 22K. Also looked at the Eagle Summit, whose AWD model was also around 23K. Despite their higher cost, they sold pretty well in Canada and you still see many around, as well as tons of 1st gen Odysseys. I think Mazda will have a ready-made market for the 5 from people wanting to trade their now 6 yrs and older Odysseys who are turned off by the mega-sized "mini"vans now on the market. I agree with Odman that the 7 seat option would be nice, even if you rarely use it. I would prefer to see a completely removeable middle seat in the 2nd row as opposed to the stowable seat base/pivoting but non-removeable seat back of the current +1 Mazda5 design. Anyway, it looks like we're only getting 6 seats for now, so I guess that'll have to do. I do like the size of the 5 and hope the 170hp 2.3l four will be enough to motivate it, as well as being economical to run too. Would really like a 5-speed auto but may have to settle for a 5 speed manual if they only offer a 4 speed auto. I guess a test drive will help that decision. Saw a piece in Canadian Driver about the stars of the Paris show, the "5" being one of them. Hope the price they mentioned (28K) is way off base....I think Mazda would be shooting themselves in the foot if they think they can charge more for the "5" than an MPV. 23-24K to start sounds more reasonable, given that the "5" is based on the "3", not the "6" and that 3 sedans start at 16+K and 3 hatches are around 20K. In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to break 24K, even loaded up with leather and all the bells & whistles for a nicely equipped "3".
I had high hopes for the old Honda Stream, but its replacement, the odd-looking 3-3 seater they showed in Paris, left me cold. The Toyota Wish would be about perfect, but is unavailable, so the Mazda5 is the first one that we really have a shot at. Has anyone seen fuel economy ratings for it yet (preferrably citing the 2.3)?
Maybe 28/40 for the manual and 26/36 for the auto.
Not bad, but as I've said before, the automatics seem to take a big chunk out of your gas mileage.
A 5 speed auto would probably be closer to the 5 speed manual as far as mileage is concerned and would probably get better performance out of the engine to boot. If they do stick with the 4 speed auto, I'll seriously consider the manual to get the best mileage possible.
http://www.mazda.co.jp/motorshow/Mazda5/?ref=official_top
I've seen a h.p figure of 170 for the 2.3l in the Mazda5 but no torque figure as yet, but let's hope the torque is bumped up respectively as well, especially for when you're carrying 6 aboard or loaded up with stuff.
169hp/158lb-ft. I guess we'll just have to see how that specs out for the real life "5".
I hope that DSC comes over as an option - it's widely available in Europe but it's hard enough to get side airbags on the Mazda6, FWIW. I see that child seat rear tether points on the 3rd row are visible on one of the two prototypes they released pictures of, hoping that those come standard, too.
The Mazda5 could be an ideal kid mover that's easy on gas and the budget, with all the safety features to boot. I'm looking fowards to it - looks likely to be our next vehicle purchase and it doesn't have any direct competition - yet.
2006 MPV should grow a bit (or maybe a lot), so wouldn't expect the 5 to cannibalize sales too much once the re-design goes through. I don't think Mazda will be pushing the 5 as a minivan anyway...more of a multi-activity vehicle that happens to seat 6.