Scion tC

pzev · May 2004

Good point about having to buy it at MSRP, but even at that this car is a solid value. $2k off a Celica? Not good enough. An $18k MSRP Celica and $20k MSRP "Action Package" Celica still have 15" steel wheels and rear drum brakes. And don't even get me started on the Civic. That 2001 Civic was such a great value. You had to step up to the overpriced EX trim just to get such luxury features as ABS, body-colored door handles and mirrors, an armrest, 15" wheels, etc. Honda at least addressed a few of these problems over the years but not all.

What gets me though is people will spend $3,000+ on the supercharger option yet they have a 2900 pound plus car on their hands which some of that weight can be credited to the glass roof. Take off the glass roof to not only save weight but save money so they can use that money towards mods. But for people wanting a sunroof and lots of standard equipment this is where the car shines, not for a performance bargain but for a solid bang for the buck. And compared to the Civic and Celica this car is just that, a good value. This will attract just as many 35-50 year olds as it will younger people. Some people simply MUST have a Toyota or Honda so this is the best choice offered.

Personally I won't be looking at the car because of the glass roof, mainly because of headroom. Just as well, if the estimates of 22/29 fuel mileage figures for the manual is correct I don't think I would want it anyway. An AWD Subaru Legacy with 350+ more pounds gets better mileage than that.

pzev · May 2004

I don't think Toyota can get close to Civic numbers with the tC. I think if demand is huge they'll be more than happy to find a way to increase supply (like the Acura TSX) but being built in Japan I'm not so sure they can produce Civic like numbers. If the Mazda3 (which is built in Japan) was as successful as the Civic you can bet a bunch of them would be built elsewhere in North America. I think some Corollas, Accords, etc. are built both in Japan and NA so I don't think huge numbers are possible for the tC. Also there may not be as many Scion dealers floating around either. Not all Toyota dealers have Scion also right?

jsvh · May 2004

They still build many civics in Japan. I think Toyota is able to produce enough tCs in Japan. They have many factories over there. Of course this is just speculation, time will tell how popular the tC is and how hard they are to get a hold of. Plus you have to remember that not long ago all Hondas and Toyotas were built in Japan. I am glad that the tC is being built in Japan however. The quality of cars built in Japan is much higher, even the for the same exact car.

And you are correct, Only about 40% of Toyota Dealers are Scion dealers. The dealerships have to meet certain guidelines. But if the tC becomes as popular as the Civic I bet more will want to be Scion dealers

gee35coupe · May 2004

built in Japan. The Camry and Accord have been built in the U.S. for over two decades. Nearly all high sellers for both makes are uilt in the U.S. or Canada. Hondas Civic, Accord, TL, Element, and others are built here. Toyota even started building the RX330 in Canada.

There are import restrictions that limit the number of cars that can be brought from Japan.

tuffyleung · May 2004

If the demand of the tc is way over the original supply, do you guys think people will be put into waiting list (like the prius) for 6 months? And the price will be increased to about $20000 ? Do you guys think people would buy the tc if the price is raised to about $20000, since high demand occurs? Would tc's "one sticker" price work for long?

jsvh · May 2004

"The U.S.-market 2005 tC shares a chassis and powertrain with Avensis, a high-volume Toyota car sold in Europe. That lets Toyota spread the investment over more than the 60,000 tC coupes it plans to sell each year in the USA."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2004-05-27-tc_- x.htm

andys120 · May 2004

Basic laws of economics would suggest that if tCs are in strong demand there will be higher prices and/or waiting lists. It would take an economist to predict whether the price would go over $20k or not.

I'd suggest that the tC is not unique enough to sustain a premium price or a wait-list indefinitely. The Scion tC looks nice but it's no Prius, or even a Mini.

nox · May 2004

I agree about the design. But the car doesn't just take styling cues from BMW. From the back, it looks like an Audi and the from the front it looks like a Volvo. If you're going to incorporate styling cues from other companies, going with arguably Europe's three most popular badges can't hurt.

tuffyleung · May 2004

With more than 60,000 tc each year at about $17000, will it be enough for the demand? The price is not negotiable,isn't it for sure? , according to the "no hassle, no haggle" saying at http://www.scion.com/drive/pricing/drive_tc_pricing.html ?

mskris · May 2004

2005 Scion tC

 What is it? Small, front-wheel-drive two-door sold as the third model in Toyota's Scion line.

 How soon? On sale late June.

 How much? Manual transmission model starts at $16,465, including $515 destination charge. Automatic model is $17,265. Typical model will have about $1,000 in options, Scion predicts.

 Who'll buy? Twenty- and thirtysomethings, probably metro-area men. They are likely prone to reject Toyota's namesake brand for its hard-sell approach, unhip image and customer-unfriendly dealership reputation and to consider Toyota's Lexus brand just right  except for that nettlesome luxury pricing issue.

 How many? 60,000 a year, making it likely to be best-selling Scion model.

gee35coupe · May 2004

I also have a 1994 LS400. I'm 34 too. The Scion looks like it may be my next car. I love my Si but I want factory XM radio like my wife's Accord. Plus the Civic seems a little "young" to me at times. Can't wait to give it a closer look.

mackabee · May 2004

The price will stay the same wHether demand goes through the roof or not, otherwise Toyota/Scion would be defeating the purpose of this marque.

Mackabee

stickguy · May 2004

if the TC is like the Solara, the car is only XM capatible. You still need a receiver and antenae.

gee35coupe · May 2004

XM is part of the package. The tuner is optional. Someone posted the accessory list upthread though.

atlantagirl · May 2004

My car is dead and gone and I'm in a rental now. Will it be realistic to expect that you can walk in and order/buy one of these when they come out (say, first few weeks of July)? Or is the apparent demand going to make it hard to get them?

I'm trying to figure out what to do - extend the rental contract (ouch) and wait for the tC, which looks absolutely beautiful and could be my perfect car ;-))) or continue drudging around the lots trying to find something that I like ok so I can get rid of the rental and have some transportation...

Thanks for any info (or educated guesses ;-)), I'm not really sure what to expect with these!

PS: Just going back looking at some previous posts, and see people have put deposits on them... awhile ago... Does it worry you to put a deposit on a car you haven't test driven? Just curious, if I *knew* I'd like it, I'd see if they'll let me do that too - but I worry that there'd be something inside that bothered me... thanks.

scootertrash · May 2004

Did you ask your dealer when they'd be in stock?
Seems like that would be the place to start.

I never test drive new cars before I buy them.
I like the element of surprise.

atlantagirl · May 2004

I called one local dealer... it sounded like they wouldn't be in til July, first few weeks, but he didn't really sound sure...

You don't test drive the cars? Wow! I can't imagine... there have been a few cars that I thought for sure I would love that really didn't turn out too well on the test drive. Stuff I hadn't even thought of seems to pop up...

scootertrash · May 2004

I bought my Scion by mail.
I never even sat in one until I drove mine off the lot.

pzev · May 2004

Satellite Tuner/Antenna by Pioneer $695.00

I'm surprised they don't offer a navigation system and charge $3,000 for it. Did a search and you can buy a Pioneer Tuner for around $120-$150 and a Pioneer Antenna for $60-$120. Once you start adding these overpriced accessories the value of this car is out the window. And of course you have the $10 monthly fee to keep it going.

pzev · May 2004

http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=14- 819

"Another quirk in the interior design of the tC was the appreciable lack of head clearance for any driver measuring over 5 feet 6 inches. By the end of the day, I felt like a giant driving around on a big wheel, which is a ridiculous sensation, given that I am only of average height.

I would be more than willing to sacrifice the power sunroof to yield some precious extra space for the noggin. Unfortunately, the panoramic roof comes standard."

chicksdigmycar · June 2004

Any word on what the cost of the supercharger will be?

Sylvia · June 2004

A newspaper reporter wants to interview Scion drivers who live outside of California. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information by 5pm Eastern on tuesday, June 1, 2004.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

stickguy · June 2004

based on that review, not a chance I'd ever get one (I had to pass on a 2001 Acura TL because my head was smacking the roof). I also consider a movable roof a requirement.

norcal · June 2004

i heard $3K for the supercharger and that it won't be available until later this year.

bigdaddycoats · June 2004

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/scion2e_20040602.htm

mackabee · June 2004

I just got off the phone with my district manager for Scion out here in Central atlantic Toyota (MD,VA,DE,PA,WV,NJ) and he informed me the tC will be at the port in New Jersey on June 20th. The plan is to get them out to dealers as quick as possible. Last week of June, but before the 4th of July weekend. I have one on order.

Atlantagirl, I would suggest you go to your favorite Scion dealer and put a deposit down on one. If you don't like it after you drive it then you don't have to buy it. If you're leary about leaving deposits, put it on your credit card that way you can always call the credit card company if they give you any hassle about getting your deposit back which they shouldn't. Toyota/Scion is very serious about "repairing" the negative image we Toyota dealers have with the buying public. Some Scion dealers in California have been "punished" if you will, for not following the Scion covenant which is a set of rules every Scion dealer has to follow or they get their franchise pulled (worst case) or inventory is denied them. Good luck!
Mackabee

tuffyleung · June 2004

Will the supply be enough for the possible high demand? How many tc are coming into US as you know? Houw do you expect about the tc on sale and its value? The price of the tc is non-negotiable , firm?

hal9000 · June 2004

Just wanted to see if anybody out there is as disappointed as me that there is no bright red being offered on the tC. Seems sad they would offer such a great red like Absolutely Red on the Camry Solara and not offer something similar on a car they're referring to as a sports coupe. Won't yank my deposit but still unsure about pulling the trigger on another color since all are pretty yawn inducing.

scootertrash · June 2004

Yes, the colors are pretty boring on all Scions.
You can get better hues on a Dodge minivan than on any Scion model.

andys120 · June 2004

cars like the Scions that are aimed at younger buyers ought to be available in vibrant colors (like bright red) but instead they have a palette of muted metallic hues. Weird!

They did introduce a limited edition of the xB in an orange metallic that's closer to copper than a real orange.

ateixeira · June 2004

Almost looks like rust, but I actually like it.

I think Scions are a pallette and they expect owners to customize it themselves, they even offer vinyl graphics as an option. My wife liked the black one she saw with the silver spots.

-juice

d_block · June 2004

I just received an email from a dealership in jersey. they said the tc i requested is in stock for $17115 (manual). If there is no haggle pricing, will all the dealerships in this area ask for the same price? Or are demands going to be high enough where people will pay the extra $$ to be the first one on the block to get there hands on this car? the little * on the website pretty much says "Actual dealer price may vary". So shouldnt i shop around for the best price? or are they all in it together?

rorr · June 2004

"they said the tc i requested is in stock...."

Huh? I was under the impression these wouldn't be available until next month? Must be some miscommunication somewhere....

d_block · June 2004

maybe...i'm still waiting for their phone call

mackabee · June 2004

The Scion covenant states that all dealers in a particular area must sell their vehicles at the listed MSRP. They do have the option of lowering the price on the vehicles but it must be done across the board. For example: Mackabee Scion(fictitious Scion Dealer)has 10 xA's on the lot, 1 xB. As most of you know the xB is outselling the xA like 3 to 1. So in order to move some inventory, I as the Manager of the dealership decide to lower the price by $300.00. I may do so but it has to be on ALL xA's I have in stock and I must post the price reduction where every customer can see it. Also if I advertise this I must state that 10 are available at this price. Scion is projecting 60,000 tC will be sold the first year. If the xB is any indication it will probably sell all we get.

d_block, the price they quoted you is probably for a tC they have coming with the side airbags and another accessory. They can not and Scion/Toyota WILL NOT tolerate any dealer trying to sell any Scion for more than MSRP. We did receive or allocation list for tC today. Mine (actually is for Mack Jr.) is on there. 5spd with side/curtain airbags in Silver streak mica.
: )
Mackabee

tuffyleung · June 2004

Why "They can not and Scion/Toyota WILL NOT tolerate any dealer trying to sell any Scion for more than MSRP"?? what about high demand? Do you know the invoice of the tc? Can/Would dealers sell at invoice price? How many XA and XB were planned to sell in US when they were first indroduced? Will 60,000 tc be enough ?

stickguy · June 2004

mack: have you sat in a tc? I'm just curious what the RW headroom is actually like. Sounds like a nice car, with the closest competitor being the Acura RSX. Is that about the size of the tc? It is cheaper.

mackabee · June 2004

tuffyleung, the whole idea behind Scion besides bringing a younger buyer (relatively speaking) into the Toyota family is a no hassle car buying experience with a high level of customer satisfaction. Yes, they will not tolerate price gouging. Yes, I do know the invoice price of the tC and I'm not about to divulge it in a private forum as it is confidential information. I imagine if the bottom dropped out of the market and they had to "liquidate" inventory they would probably sell at "invoice". If you are a customer that prefers the negotiating experience than the Scion "pure pricing" philosphy is not for you. And I don't mean or am saying this to be confrontational. Will 60k tC's be enough? Who knows. The market will tell. There's some pictures of the car at www.familycar.com and they make the car look even better than the pictures floating around so far.

stickguy, I have not sat in the car. My General Manager was lucky enough to see the car and sit in it. He's about 6'2" and said the headroom was fine. I pulled up the initial allocation for the CAT dealers an it looks like everyone is getting just one this month. So whoever gets the first one will be very lucky as not many customer will get to see one until next month when the next allocation arrives.
Mackabee

moparbad · June 2004

Confidential? KBB shows the invoice as $16,427 including destination and MSRP at $17,265. This is the automatic.

stickguy · June 2004

thanks Mac. I almost pulled the trigger on a Solara convertible last weekend (to replace my Miata and Maxima) but couldn't quite see myself driving it. Plus, I would have to change my handle (autoguy? Nah.).

Maybe the big glass roof will be close enough to a convert. I do like the Miata when the cpnditions are right, but it can be a little bit of a drag when the top needs to be up.

Not sure how I rationalize something the size of the TC, expecially with 2 doors, but it might be fun (and cheap). Or maybe I should just get over the mid life crisis and get a Buick (is 42 old these days?).

I don't know about Scions demo though. Just had my 20 year college reunion, and one of my friends (female) showed up with her new purple xB. And this is not someone that you would expect to see driving one of them!

stickguy · June 2004

ask your GM if the back seat has enough room for kids (I have 2, currently 8 and 13, both on the skinny side and plenty limber).

Since I'm here, do you know if they have radio controls on the steering wheel? Is homelink on the accessory list? Are the Mets for real?

OK< time for another beer.

tuffyleung · June 2004

mackabee, thanks for your insight. Do you mind that I have your email , so I can ask you more about the tc in detail?

stickguy · June 2004

one of the car magazines that just came (Autoweek I think) did a review, and said that the rear seats were roomy enough for anyone below 6' tall. I think they found the fronts to have plenty of space.

I'm starting to think it will do well.

zero260 · June 2004

Hi, its my first time posting in this forum. I just called my Toyota dealer today and cancelled my special order for a fully loaded Solara SLE V6 with every available option. I happened to drive by the Toyota/Lexus/Scion dealer and saw a tC which just arrived yesterday. This car looks sleek, fit and finish seem to be excellent. My only gripes are the stock Pioneer system, which seemed to get distorted at high volumes, and the blandly styled grille. Tomorrow, I plan to special order a fully loaded tC, I just wish the supercharger was available. I hope i made the right decision with the cancel!

Jon

jsvh · June 2004

They had a tC on the lot!!!? I did not think they were going to be out for another month! Did they let you test drive it?

pzev · June 2004

"I plan to special order a fully loaded tC..."

What do you mean by fully loaded? I thought the only factory options were automatic transmission and side curtain airbags? The only other things there are are basically cosmetic additions.

Toyota's worst nightmare would be having everyone buying bone stock tC's. I mean look at the prices of the accessories. $480 for foglights? $700 for a satellite tuner/receiver? $525 for a stainless steel exhaust? Give me a break, talk about a rip-off.

I have a feeling a lot of these cars will come from the port with these options already added. I see a lot of Camry's and Corolla's with those dumb Enkei 15" wheels that run about $700. If they can get away with that and putting that stuff on half the cars on the lot then they're going to have a field day with the tC.

These accessories are nothing new. You can pretty much get all this stuff on Camry's, etc. now already. Keep the tC stock and pocket the savings.

zero260 · June 2004

I have no idea how the ordering process works but, I'll find out today when I go to the dealer. I just want every available dealer and factory installed option. The Scion xA and xB have been on sale for a while now and the tC just came in two days ago. It was silver, a/t, pretty much stock- it didn't sound like it had the optional exhaust system. The gauge calibration system was pretty cool. I got chance to start it and play around with the controls. The salesman told me that that particular model, a/t, started at $18k. Hopefully, I could get a test drive today. I guess I'm off to the dealer...

pzev · June 2004

As far as I know your only factory options are choice of transmission and either get side curtain airbags or leave them off. Everything else is either port-installed or dealer-installed and you can see that stuff in post #233. As I said it's mostly cosmetic stuff. Unless you're into that type of stuff there's really no reason to go for it. You can get all the same stuff on Celica's and other Toyota cars, including superchargers.

The advantage here is (in my opinion) is you're getting a good car and good value that arguably can't be touched for the same price. Toyota certainly is making a profit off a stock tC but probably lower than say a Camry or Celica. Compare the prices and equipment and even at the set MSRP price the tC is a good deal.

Seems to me where Toyota plans to come out ahead is with the overpriced accessories and simultaneously attract the young crowd. Not sure if the Civic Coupe crowd will have money leftover for a $3,000 supercharger or different wheels or whatever but we'll see how it goes.

Toyota just doesn't get it most of the time. Blobby Echo? Blobby Corolla with beam suspension? $16,000 Celica with steel wheels and drum brakes? Then people are chomping at the bit to see the all-new exciting Solara and look what they give us? I see so many Accord Coupes it's not even funny, but only seen 2 Solaras so far. And now Toyota has plain given up and started a new brand to attract young people.

Newsflash Toyota. It's not the badge, it's the cars! No one is ashamed in having a "Toyota" Supra.

Good luck with the purchase. Nothing wrong with either the tC or Solara, both I'm sure are solid good cars.

zero260 · June 2004

The accesories are overpriced. I guess getting all the dealer installed options is a total rip-off. I just plan to get the dealer-installed options that I think I would get aftermarket, that wouldn't affect warranty. Do you think the side airbags are worth the money, are they side curtain airbags or just side airbags?(I have to wait till september for the SAB) Anyway, I got to test drive a black a/t tC a few minutes ago, am very impressed.

jsvh · June 2004

"are they side curtain airbags or just side airbags?" -Both, you get side airbags and curtain airbags.

Scion tC

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