Scion tC

pdm72 · August 2004

Ok--disclaimer here--I know nothing about car audio--this is the first car I've purchased, because the only other one I've had was inherited from a family member. I'm really wondering if, for someone who has zero ability to do anything with a car except drive it, getting the factory changer and the XM options make sense. I definitely want a changer of some sort. I'm still not sure about XM--it seems awfully pricy. I've seen lots of postings about how you can get all of this stuff cheaper aftermarket--but for those of us who know nothing--does that make sense? Would I end up paying so much for installation that any equipment savings is minimal? I have a friend who could probably do some of it--but I really don't want to mess with the warranty. Part of me wants to be practical, but the other part of me is thinking since this is the first car I've ever bought, and I'll probably have it for a long, long time, I may as well just suck up the overpriced options, go all out, and get them all from the dealer, rather than wander around Best Buy without a clue, particularly since I won't exactly be piling on any of the performance options or body modifications.

05tc · August 2004

I live in Augusta, GA. The fees at the local dealership are $500 delivery, and $300 documentation fee. How do these sound? Does anyone know of place that is cheaper like Atlanta, Athens, or Macon GA. Or in Columbia,SC. Also, it was mentioned earlier that the stock tires may wear out quick are not very good. I assume the tires are warrantied for a certain mileage. What the warrantied threadlife? If they do wear out prematurely, do I take them back to the dealership to be prorated? Thanks

genee · August 2004

05tC - One of the perks - for tire dealers - is that it is VERY difficult to find any 17 inch low profile tire that has any mileage warranty. Another of the Bridgestone tires has a 40K warranty, but most of the 17/45s are expected to last about 30K. They are "performance" tires and expected to be driven hard. Just one of the bullets you get to bite ... now, if Michelin would only produce the HydroEdge in our size.

cooldad24 · August 2004

Buying from factory is more expansive but covered by the 3 year warranty and right connection. Buying after market need to be cautious especially the new model. If not installed by professional and end up screw the fuse or, even worse, the electrical circuitry, it may end up big money while you try to save. My suggestion is: stay with your OEM and see if it is sufficient for your need. Wait for 3 months and most car stereo stores know how to install correctly. You may add the option if you don't want to bet and like to stay with OEM. Subwoofer is a worthy consideration if you like powerful bass of the music and you have plenty of choice in aftermarket.

mackabee · August 2004

Sorry guys, been rather busy lately. New regime at my store. Anyway, to answer some of your questions. The "Delivery, processing, and handling" fee on the window sticker is totally separate from the dealership's "doc fee", "processing fee" or whatever they may wish to call it. Some states "allow" dealers to charge as much as the market will bear for these fees and other states such as Texas cap those fees to $50.00 dollars. I would suggest you find the one with the lowest fee. I know these fees have gotten outrageous and dealers "claim" it's because of them having to sell most new cars at, below, or around invoice and they are losing revenue. Whatever.
Inventory: Every dealership has a inventory that is downloaded daily from the distributors website. This shows what cars the dealer has on hand, what cars are on order (allocation) and what cars are on the way.
: )
Mackabee

mougenot · August 2004

I just got my tc, why am I having a hard time opening the trunk? Sometimes it just doesn't open. Grrrrr..........

mougenot · August 2004

What type of anti theft device do you guys recommend? I heard the good old club that locks the brake to the steering wheel is good enough. Never had a nice car like this, just wondering what you guys have on your tc.

char · August 2004

OOOOhhh.... I'm with you, Mougenot. I can't figure out the secret code, either. Help! I keep clicking the lock release on the key until it gives. Am I being a dork?

Also, I detect the minimal creaking of the sunroof upon startup of the vehicle. Everyone concur that this is harmless?

bamacar · August 2004

If it is like the Honda Accord, you have to hold the button down for a couple of seconds then it will open.

stickguy · August 2004

the trunk (actually, the "hatch") unlocks when the passenger door unlocks. If you hit the unlock button once, the drivers door opens. If you hit it again within 2 seconds, the passenger door and the hatch unlock.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, and you actually have another issue. I haven't had any problem with the hatch not unlocking, or using the latch to actually open it.

I don't think the slight creak is an issue. I only hear it when the car is cold, if I twist it just right backing out of my driveway.

dulanic · August 2004

For those of you with the sunroof popping, this is a known problem. The issue is 2 bolts in the roof backing out. After 2000 miles mine does it like crazy now. There will be a service bulletin released within a few weeks telling dealerships how to fix it. It is an easy fix, torque down 2 bolts and use lock-tite to stop it from backing out again. If you want it fixed before the TSB is released, just call your dealership and tell them about the problem, and tell them to call Scion about how to fix it. While a official TSB hasn't been released, Scion can give them the instructions on how to fix it.

dulanic · August 2004

For the stereo I've seen alot of differing opinions, and for stock I think it's very good. One thing always to check is press the SSP (Or is it SPP?) button and switch it to the Hear mode, the stereo does sound like CRAP in the neutral mode for sure. Also you can hold down the button for a few seconds to switch between tC xA and xB mode, that makes less of a difference.

stickguy · August 2004

I agree to go with the stock head unit and add the sub if you want upgraded audio and a changer. Next stop to me would be upgraded speakers from a aftermarket shop.

cooldad24 · August 2004

I am with Stickguy. Most the time, the head unit is quite satisfied and it's the speakers let the whole system down. In my '99 Odyssey, the OEM speakers are tiny and sound terrible. I spend $120 plus shipping to replace the front (6.5") and the rear one (4") and the sound quality is way better. The tremble is clear and the bass is acceptible. I did consider to add the subwoofer but can't find an ideal location not to block the fold away 3rd row. But with that small investment, the sound is much enjoyable. I have checked those in my '94 Camry too, the speakers are cheapo ones.

dat2 · August 2004

hello...
i have finished a 2000 mile trip in my new tc 5-spd silverstreek, this was a trip including the blue ridge parkway and shenendoah, and dc. hiway mileage ranged from 27-30. throttle leg leans against center console, which is annoying, but i get used to it. ride is excellent. power is good. handling is good. very happy with this car. popping/creaking in sunroof occurs pretty often, over undulating or bumpy pavement. will have dealer tighten those bolts at first oil change, which will be soon. i like the silver color too, lots of dirt but still looks great.

volcomknurd · August 2004

Why are the dealerships charging a delivery fee again when it is already included on the MSRP? are they allowed to do that?

i live in SD and the most someone charges for DOC fees here is $45, and that isnt much.

rorr · August 2004

"Why are the dealerships charging a delivery fee again when it is already included on the MSRP?"

ummmmm, buyer ignorance?

The car is in demand and they're chomping at the bit to charge market prices. But Toyota is holding their feet to the fire, so they're looking for 'other' ways to make money. As usual, buyer beware. Do your homework and you'll be fine.

scootertrash · August 2004

Call Scion and let us know what they tell you about that.

"Call the Scion Customer Experience at 1.866.70.SCION. "

mackabee · August 2004

As I explained in the previous post some states allow a processing fee or doc fee. If they are calling it a delivery fee on top of the processing and doc fee, I would run not walk out of the place! ; )
Those of you that are having the noisy sunroof, would you please post the last 4 numbers of your VIN#? My son has not mentioned anything about that, he does listen to the stereo rather loud though, so that may be masking the noise if there is some. Talked to him last night, coming up on 5000 miles! Can you believe this! He'll slow down in a year. He did the same thing with his 94 SE-R. The first year he had it he put 20k miles on it plus 3 speeding tickets one which he picked up outside of Richmond Va on the way to King's Dominion (an amusement park) and which I had to go to court with him for moral support. I told him not to argue with the judge and what does he do when his turn comes up? Argues with the judge. The courthouse was LTAOL !! So, he has his first oil change scheduled for Saturday. I'll call him and tell him about the sunroof.
: )
Mackabee

stickguy · August 2004

mines 2717. Is this an issue for certain models, or are you just curious to know if later ones than his are exhibiting the symptoms?

pdm72 · August 2004

I am waiting for my dealer to call me back and let me know what their color allocation is--I'm buying from one of the largest Toyota dealerships in the world, so hopefully the wait shouldn't be too long. However, this dealership is pretty far away from where I live (the only one that had an automatic to test drive when I was looking, and one of the few that had anything at all). Now that I've realized that you can get so many of the accessories online, like the same XM setup, sub, and whatnot, I'm kind of wondering whether I could go to a dealership closer to where I live and have those parts installed, and if I did whether they'd just make up the entire cost savings on the installation. I don't want to risk warranty issues by getting factory accessories installed elsewhere (if that would even be an issue, I haven't a clue), but I also don't want to unncessarily fork out money. I would feel kind of bad about going to another dealer, but I can't see doing the back and forth to the far away dealer if I can get them installed in town. The only reason I went so far in the first place was because nothing local had anything.

cooldad24 · August 2004

You can have those accessories installed when you buy and have your local dealer to cover the warrenty. You don't need to go back to where you bought your car for warrenty coverage. Since it's Toyota pay the dealer where the vehicle fixed.

genee · August 2004

This is directed mainly to Weazell and Techwolf but any that can help feel free to reply ...
I, too, have the autodimming mirror w/Homelink. I find it strange - with all the lighting in the mirror - that the HomeLink buttons are not illuminated. I called Scion and THEY couldn't answer the question. Secondly, how do you get the stupid amber-blue-dim cycle to quit?

My high mount brake light has only the centre 1/3 lighted. Since there are no other tCs around - and I don't trust a call to the delivering dealership - I cannot compare it to another car. So, I ask for input. Is this how it is supposed to be? Or do I look to have it replaced?

voidvoice · August 2004

I am interested in this tc because of its price and features. I dont mind to have a 2 door but how comfortable of back seat for 6'?

ghgh · August 2004

You need to reconsider your research. There are sedans that don't fit six -- you will not get six people into a tC coupe. Not even if four of you are children.

You don't need a coupe -- you need a station wagon.

voidvoice · August 2004

I mean 6 feet(6') not 6 people.
I dont even think it will fit 5 people.

cooldad24 · August 2004

Any coupe will be tight for 6' and only for short trip before filing law suit for mistreat. That say it's better than all 2+2 sport car and Audi A4, BMW 3, comparable to MB C class, Civic, Corolla but not mid size sedan such Accord or Camry. If you have to carry 6' passenger at back regularly, shop mid size sedan especially the Toyota Avalon which can hold 6 footer with legs crossed.

rorr · August 2004

Not all 6-footers are built the same. It depends on if the height is in the torso or in the legs. It also depends a great deal on overall body mass. A 170# 6-footer can 'slouch' a bit or shift their legs to get into a more comfortable position a LOT easier than a 250# 6-footer.

That being said, I'm 6'1" with most of my 'extra' length in my legs. I'm also pretty far into the 'skinny' side. Legroom in the back of the tC was much better than I had anticipated (remembering it IS a 2-dr coupe), but the headroom was pretty tight. I remember reading somewhere that the rear seats in the tC can be reclined somewhat (true?), but didn't check this. Obviously, if your extra height is in the torso, the rear headroom would be even tighter. But it IS leagues ahead of my Celica....

Regardless, it is ALWAYS best to simply give one a trial sit and form your own opinion. Comparing statistics won't give you the complete picture. You also need to consider the size of the door opening, ease of moving the front seats forward for ingress-egress, if there is toe space under the seats, etc. etc. etc.

voidvoice · August 2004

Thanks for the info. I think i dont need to worry too much of the back sear room since not many of my friends or family are 6' and BIG

I like the backsear can be reclined , is it common in coupe?(know little about car )
I will test drive one when i get a chance.

05tc · August 2004

For those who have the bazooka sub accessory. Does the bazooka sub require a capacitor. By that, I mean at night when you turn it up and the bass hits hard does the exterior lights dim?

For those with aftermarket amp and subs. What does it take to pull the head out to plug in a sub? Thanks.

tuffyleung · August 2004

I am considering buying a tc , so I am asking to get some help on the $ of the auto insurance from anyone who is knowledgable about it. I am at 21 and got my license for 3 years and 3months, never got into accedents and no tickets , the tc will be my first car and that will be my first auto insurance, and I am living in Oregon. $500 would be my deductable ...Anyone knows how much would I be paying for a year??? Please help.

markg4 · August 2004

i would call a few insurance agent/companies and ask them. anything else would be a pure guess and most likely quite innaccurate.

scootertrash · August 2004

246.14

wongpres · August 2004

This was posted on another board about Scion's allocation process. A very useful read for those wanting to get a tC since demand is currently so high.

"I'm going to give y'all information about the process we go through to "order" a car. This will help you understand what we go through and I'll follow up with tips on how to work the system to ensure you get your car.

Every month, we get a "TVO Book." This is just a list of what cars are being delivered to our region the following month. It breaks things down by transmission, equipment and colors. For instance, in the Central Atlantic Region (CAT), we are getting 475 Scion tCs in the August order (delivery between late August to mid-September). Of those, 189 are manual. Of the 189 manual, 47 will have side air bags. Of those, 10 will be flint mica. So if you are looking for a flint mica manual with side air bags, you know that only 10 cars will be delivered to a region with over 100 dealerships. The chances of the dealerships you are at getting one of these as a random occurrence is pretty slim.

Twice a month, we get an allocation of cars. Based on the size of the dealership, we are given a certain number of cars. We don't know ahead of time exactly how many we will get each time. The allocations are generally on the 1st and 16th of the month, depending on where weekends fall. Allocations are never cut on Saturday or Sunday.

Prior to the allocation coming out, each dealership can tell Toyota their preferences. Its called a preference bank. We can tell Toyota that as long as we are getting a bunch of cars, there are certain configurations we would prefer. The higher up on the preference list we put a car, the more likely we are to get it. We are NEVER guaranteed to get a car on our preference list.

The morning after the allocation, we are sent a fax of the cars we got. We are told the color, equipment and transmission, as well as the day the car is due into the port. From that list, we assign the sold units to the customers from whom we have orders. Those sold units are locked in stone. Two days later, the new allocation hits our communication system called Dealer Daily. At that point, we can see what other dealerships received, except for the units they put in reserve for sold units.

This is when we start calling other dealerships to make trades. If I have an order for a car that I didn't get, I might be able to find a dealership who did get it and is willing to swap. This is a time consuming process and relies on personal relationships with other inventory managers. Its very hit or miss.

So what can a consumer do to increase his/her chances of getting a car sooner, rather than later? Find a dealership who is willing to discuss this openly with you. If asked by a potential customer, I will show them a list of my orders, along with my list of incoming units. I will also add a car to my preference bank while they sit in my office. Most dealers are not set up to allow this, but some are. If your dealer can't do this, just make sure to follow up with the sales manager just after the 1st or 16th to see how the allocation went. Ordering just prior to the allocations also helps because it keeps everything fresh in mind.

Another thing you can do is have more than one color request. If you must have white, you'll get it eventually. If you tell the dealership you'll take white, black or black cherry, you've nearly tripled your chances of getting the car sooner. To put this into hard numbers, here in the CAT region, there are 17 white manual transmission tCs coming without side air bags. There are 11 in black and 17 in BCP. There are also 32 flint, 36 silver and 18 indigo. Obviously, if you want flint or silver, you have a better shot than if you stick with white.

Are you getting the picture? If you order today, there is an allocation on Monday night and by Tuesday morning, the dealer will know if your car is inbound. If they didn't they have to make a bunch of calls later in the week. That process can slide into the following week. If no other dealership will give the car up, they have to wait until the 16th to try again. They can't tell you anything further until then.

I hope this helps you understand what is happening at your dealerships."

pdm72 · August 2004

Wow, so I guess I'll settle in for the wait on my black with side curtain airbags. The dealer had offered their display car at a small discount, but I'm not that keen on the ground effects, so I passed. How does this system play into the options? Are people wanting the 18" wheels going to be waiting even longer?

wongpres · August 2004

There's no affect on options & accessories that can be dealer-installed.

mackabee · August 2004

Just curious. I talked to one of our master techs and he has not seen the TSB yet, but then again he has been busier than a one-legged man in butt kicking contest.

Mackabee

genee · August 2004

Now, THAT could be something to fear!!! Is your master tech so busy because so many tCs are coming in with problems? I ask because mine has problems with: 1)the infamous lid on the CD deck; 2)the cover behind the rear seat doesn't fit; 3)only 1/3 of the third brake light works; and 4)the front driver's side inside trim fell off while driving. This all points to low reliablity scores at Consumer Reports.

axiomowner · August 2004

Anyone know if a specical edition 1.0 is in the works for the tC? Since both the xA and xB have one, I'm hoping the tC will get one too.

I'm hoping that while I play catch-up on my current negative equity, a 1.0 will be anounced. I'd order (wait in line) immediately.

I've had my current ride for 3 years. Note to everyone: unless you own a Toyota (Scion!), you'll be upside down until year 4!

mackabee · August 2004

No, he's rather busy working on customer's cars. The only tC's I've seen in our service department are ones having their first oil change done. My son took his in for the first 5000 mile checkup. No problems found. He also mentioned there is no noise from his sunroof.
: )
Mackabee

wongpres · August 2004

"3)only 1/3 of the third brake light works"

That's normal, all are like that.

exzur · August 2004

After four weeks wait, tomorrow I am picking up my brand new silver 2005 Scion tC with manual transmission. It costs me $16,465 plus the 8.25% tax , etc., the outdoor price is $17,890.

The toyota finance guy has offered extending the bumper to bumper warranty from 3 to 6 years, and the 36,000 to 75,000 miles for $925. The extended warranty is provided by Toyota. Is it a good deal? Has anybody taken or offered the same warranty? I need your opinion, please.

Thanks.

Weazell · August 2004

I snagged my tC a couple of weeks ago from our local dealership here in fabulous Bend, OR. I have a silver tC with A/T. So far I have about 1200 miles on it - including a trip to Seattle last week (about 700 miles round trip). Here are a few thoughts:

1. The tC is dang fun to drive. My daughter is certain tht her old man is going to be getting a ticket someday soon.

2. The gas mileage is good as well. 30 - 32 MPG on my Seattle trip.

3. It's quiet! With everything closed up, it is suprisingly quiet. Even with the sunroof open a bit it ain't bad.

4. The panorama sunroof really makes sitting in the back seat not really so bad. It fees very open for such a confined space.

5. I love being able to check the outside temperature!

6. The sound system is the best stock system I have ever had. It is at it's best at higher volumes and not as strong at low volume. I have the single disc player with the Bazooka subwoofer and XM Radio, by the way.

7. The placement of the subwoofer makes getting to the spare tire a pain in the rear. I can't begin to describe what you have to go through but it definitely isn't convenient. Thankfully I don't expect to have to change all that many spare tires.

8. I opted for one of the optional gear shift knobs. I'm glad I did because the standard shift nob felt a bit sticky in hot weather.

9. I love the auto dimming mirror but only because of the "Homelink" feature. It memorized my garage door opener pretty easily and it's nice to not have the extra piece of paraphernalia hanging around. (i.e. my garage door opener)

10. I got the lip spoiler. No big deal but I do like the look of it - even if it is small.

11. Who in their right mind would pass on MX Radio? I love it - even if I have had to avoid all the news channels so that I don't have any of the Olympic results ruined for me during the day.

12. I love playing CDs with mp3s! Not only can you cram a ton more on them but the ID tag information is nice.

13. I get some good looks around town. I still haven't seen another one except for on a Toyota lot. I feel like I have something pretty unique.

Some things I worry about:

1. The seats look and feel kinda cheap. I feel like I am forever brushing lint off them AND I wonder how long it will be before they fray around the seams. I wish leather had been an option.

2. The popping in the sunroof is annoying. I understand a fix has been figured out. Someday soon I'll take it in to get it corrected.

3. The shift knob isn't completely tight. If I turned it completly tight it would be cockeyed. Not too annoying - just something I've noticed.

4. While I like the idea of the cover over the Radio / CD head, I have to punch it 2-3 times to get it to open.

5. This is petty but why isn't the XM Radio antenna the same color as the car? How hard would that have been?

Options I couldn't live with out:

1. Floor mats
2. XM Radio
3. Auto dimming mirror (mostly because of the garage door opener feature.)
4. Subwoofer
5. Shift knob.

One more thing. If you're thinking about the alarm, look closely at what you're getting. It seemed like a total waste to me.

Okay, enough rambling. Hope this helps those of you still considering a tC. This was definitely the right choice for me. And the whole thing under 20K. How could you go wrong!

Peter

stickguy · August 2004

I opened mine the first day, and haven't closed it since. I suppose some day if I park in the city I might do it, but normally it will stay open.

genee · August 2004

1. The seats look and feel kinda cheap. I feel like I am forever brushing lint off them AND I wonder how long it will be before they fray around the seams. I wish leather had been an option.

If you are in Bend the closest Classic Soft Trim installer is in Beaverton. Their quote for leather (more and better than factory packages)was considerably less than quoted by the dealer (who has CST do their leather!). They have to have the car for two days and it usually takes three working days to get the leather from their factory in CA. For those cold Bend winters, I would also suggest you look into heated seats.

ericyan · August 2004

after 2 weeks' wait
finally got the azure pearl color
check it out:
www.pbase.com/sciontc

pdm72 · August 2004

7. The placement of the subwoofer makes getting to the spare tire a pain in the rear. I can't begin to describe what you have to go through but it definitely isn't convenient. Thankfully I don't expect to have to change all that many spare tires.

---

Is this something specific to the installed Bazooka, or is it likely to be an issue with anything installed in its place? I've been leaning towards getting that option, rather than getting something aftermarket, mostly because I really don't know enough about these things to go out and get something, and because the fit just seems convenient, but if I can avoid this problem, I might reconsider it. Granted, one doesn't get flat tires every day, but I can envision myself inadvertently destroying things in frustration trying to get to the tire, if it's complicated.

genee · August 2004

7. The placement of the subwoofer makes getting to the spare tire a pain in the rear.

The sub for the tC mounts in the rear quarter panel and takes very little - if anything - out of the the trunk. It sounds like the people in Bend installed the xB Bazooka TUBE rather than the Vehicle Specific tC sub. Do you have a tube in your trunk? If so, you have the wrong equipment and they need to swap it out for you.

genee · August 2004

I had some time to kill while waiting for a Portland dealership to discover that ALL tCs have only the centre portion of the third brake light that works. Weazell is right-on about the subwoofer making it nigh onto impossible to easily get to the spare. It - the sub - covers a big end of the cargo floor with little wiggle room for extraction.

Now, we need to find an effective way to get to Toyota/Scion about these engineering oversights: a) subwoofer destroying the ease of getting to the spare; b) a seat that won't slide back far enough for a real person to drive it (Highlander is the same way); and c) a light that makes anyone following you think, "Here is a brand new car with defective lights." ... Ooops! I forgot the infamous works-sometimes lid on the radio compartment.

dat2 · August 2004

There is plenty of seat travel, at least for the driver (I've never been a passenger). I had my tC for a month now. Most other cars I've pushed the seat almost to the end of the travel to have my legs fairly streched out. In the tc there is PLENTY of seat travel...several clicks left

Scion tC

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