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2008 Toyota Highlander

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Comments

  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    The 2nd row on the HL slides back and forth but it doesn't on the Honda products.
    Half right, half wrong. The second row does slide on the current generation Pilot, but not on the new generation MDX.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Obviously it hasn't bothered around 450,000 who have bought one so far...

    I'm hoping to take a look at the 08 Highlander today for comparison--not in the market but eventually will want a vehicle like this for the family...
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    I'm near Boston.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "Obviously it hasn't bothered around 450,000 who have bought one so far... "

    You're right. Toyota has finally found the formula to sell to the lowest common denominator. ;)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "Did not like the Plood at all, and the door panels also seemed cheap compared to my $25k Pilot (let alone an MDX). I think Toyota started going with not-as-nice textures on the 07 Camry, and it's spread here. "

    This attempt at faux wood is better than previous models. At least it looks like wood in a satin finish. The cheap door panels actually started with the 05 Avalon and is just showing up in everything Toyota since. :(
    Mackabee
  • cali_alicali_ali Member Posts: 7
    I just saw the 08 Highlander in So.Cal and it does have the rear a/c it has a digital reading panel and nice clean finishing touches. It has a scaled down version of the larger dials that are on the main center console. I think they look sharp. I can't decide between the 4Runner and the Highlander. I know I will have more bargaining power with the 4Runner than the new 08 highlander. I love the look of the 4Runner, but know the highlander has a smoother ride and is possibly more practicle for my needs. What two cents can you offer to me?
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Do you tow or off-road with any regularity?

    DrFill
  • cali_alicali_ali Member Posts: 7
    No I do not tow, but have a company that will be contributing to the cost and paying all the gas on it. In exchange it will be turned into a wrapped billboard advertising my company. I do like the rear back window that rolls down for my large dog.
  • cali_alicali_ali Member Posts: 7
    Do you think the new body style will increase the margin of discount available on the 4Runner. Is it worth upgrading to the better shocks on the 4Runner limited? Navigation is a must for me because I will be driving all over the greater L.A and then some.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    4Runners sell because they have a sterling reputation, are attractive, stylish trucks, and have heavy-duty construction, for towing and off-raoding. The 4Runner drives very well for a truck-based SUV, but it feels 500lbs heavier than the '07 HL. Which can be good or bad, for some buyers. And the seating position is noticably higher, so that is also an attraction.

    If you are going to drive it like a car, the HL serves tyour needs better, and will cost significantly less to run, like an Acadia vs a Tahoe.

    If you don't tow, that nullifies the 4Runner. If you don't pay for gas, that nullifies the HL.

    They both will ride well, but differently. It should probably come down to things like seat comfort/height, ergonomics, acceleration, and other intangibles. You won't lose, but these vehicles have very different missions in life by design.

    In my neck of the woods, 4Runners aren't big sellers, and you can strike a great deal pretty easily, with $1500 or rate. :)

    The Sprt has the X-REAS shock system for maximum stability and traction off-road, but I wouldn't call any 4rUnner a soft-rider, regardless of trim. Considering it's ride height and weight, you don't want too much body roll if you are Toyota.

    I learned to drive, many years ago, on a 1990 4Runner, so it has a place in my heart. :blush:

    DrFill
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    FWIW, the 4Runner V6 has the same tow rating as the 08 Highlander (5000lbs). The 4Runner V8 tows about 7000 IIRC.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "The Sprt has the X-REAS shock system for maximum stability and traction off-road,"

    Doc, doc, where do you come up with this stuff? :sick:
    The X-REAS Sport Enhancement Suspension was designed to help improve vehicle on-road handling performance. If you want to know how it works I'll be happy to explain it to you. ;)
    Mackabee
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Got it mixes up with the GX470's system. Thanks. :)

    DrFill
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Ok. So meant to say the KDSS system. Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System.
    :)
    Mackabee
  • microbustmicrobust Member Posts: 56
    Thanks, I lived in Somerville (Somavil), MA for a couple of years. Boston's a great town.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    At these prices I'll just take the Pilot. They will have to market support these things to sell them.
  • qs933qs933 Member Posts: 302
    I have had a dealer here in NorCal say the rear A/C option may not be coming for some time, if at all.

    The demo Limited 4x2 I test drove in Honolulu had the auto rear air option.

    In fact, I think all of the Limiteds are going to have that option in Hawaii (the aforementioned "mandatory" option groups). It's just as well; in this climate, the more air-conditioning you can get, the better. :)
  • qs933qs933 Member Posts: 302
    I can't decide between the 4Runner and the Highlander.

    Here's my two cents...

    Back in 2001, I almost bought a 4Runner, but bought a Highlander instead. Although I liked the looks of the 4Runner better, the Highlander handled better, rode better, was quieter inside, felt more "modern," got better gas mileage, and was even slightly cheaper.

    Off-roading and towing are not important for me, as I do neither. Everything in my head told me that the Highlander was the better vehicle for my needs, so that's what I bought.

    Several years later, I sold the Highlander and bought a 4Runner. The 4Runner's redesign in 2003 made a huge difference in the way it drove, handled, rode, etc. It felt way more substantial than the Highlander (as it should have, given that it was wider, longer, taller, and heavier). I also loved the exterior (more so after they ditched the grey cladding).

    Fast forward to today. I'm pretty sure my next vehicle will be an '08 Highlander Limited. I was initially disappointed with the new exterior from the photos, but after seeing it in person, I think it looks great (especially in Magnetic Grey).

    There are new features that I'm looking forward to having: the power rear door, smart-key, Bluetooth, and rear-view camera. The latter two are available on the 4Runner with navigation only (not available in Hawaii). If any of these features are important to you, then the Highlander is the easy choice. If towing or going off road are important, then the choice is also very easy.

    I wouldn't be surprised if I jump back to the 4Runner when the 5th generation is introduced in a few years. I guess that's one of the great things about having two mid-size SUVs with product cycles set several years apart.
  • stewartbstewartb Member Posts: 7
    While waiting for the 08 HL to come out, I fell in love with the 4Runner. I love the way the 4R looks and the rear power glass is awesome! After much discussion though, my wife and I decided that the HL was the more attractive buy, despite the deeper discounts offered on the 4R. For us, the major difference between the two vehicles was the quality of the interior. The 4R dash and controls seemed dated and the 2nd row bench wasn't very comfortable. The sliding 2nd row captain's chairs on the HL were a big plus.
  • microbustmicrobust Member Posts: 56
    It seems the rear seat A/C option is available just about everywhere but Nor Cal. That seems silly where we reguarly hit the century mark.
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    The arbitrary options by region aspect of Toyota is truly assanine.
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    Wife and I drove the HL Ltd today, and we both liked it. We have 2 young kids and are looking for 3rd row seating for occasional use:
    - throttle was responsive, we both thought acceleration was brisk, although engine noise was just a bit louder than I expected upon medium/heavy acceleration
    - very good road manners: not bouncy/harsh like SUVs, not too much lean in corners
    - my wife liked the visibility (she's 5'3")
    - front seats were comfortable. My arm fit on the center armrest, although an armrest built into the seat would probably be a little more comfortable.
    - bluetooth is nice!
    - cargo space behind the 3rd row is about 14 inches at the floor, and probably less than 6 inches at the top near the window. Enough room for a reasonable amount of groceries, or a folded-up stroller, or a few pieces of luggage (i.e. picking someone up from the airport). Not enough room for a beach vacation, that's for sure. Unless you fold down the 3rd row, and then you're set!
    - fake wood is what it is: fake looking
    - access to third row is non-existent: no way grandparents can contort their way behind that 2nd row. A better option will be to make them seat in the 2nd row, slide toward the middle and simply walk down to the third row via the space between the captains chairs.
    -3rd row seats are not split fold-down (the entire seat folds down)

    The only comparison we have so far is the Acadia, which was also nice but bigger: extremely easy to access third row, much more room behind 3rd row, less engine noise than the HL, but acceleration is very laggy, no bluetooth, less visibility than the HL

    So in our opinion, for a family of 4 the Highlander is better suited to our needs. We don't need all the room of the Acadia, but the Acadia is very competent and if I had 3 kids I wouldn't hesitate to get the Acadia. But man, they have to fix that sluggish acceleration, the Highlander wins hands down in that department.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Each region surveys it's dealerships and they vote on what they think is the best 'packaging' for that region. It's all subject to change each year and even sometimes during mid year.

    In this way a region isn't forced to take 2WD vehicles when 90% of demand is for 4WD. OTOH in other districts like SE VA it's the reverse. 60-80% 2WD is what the buyers want.

    And it's not that big a country. If one region doesn't meet your requirements then there's always other options. It seems to be working well in addressing the majority of buyers.

    You are entitled to your opinion of course.
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    We had previously tested a Ltd with Ash leather, NAV, DVD and everything else. The ride was great but the handling could have been better. Plus, we don't want to spend that much. So, today we tested a Sport with black cloth interior, no NAV but a few other options.

    First off, the black cloth interior comes across as a lot cheaper than the grey leather interior. Even the door panels in black somehow seem cheaper.

    As far as ride, it was definitely firmer than the Ltd but by no means harsh. I preferred it as the handling was more confident also. Anyone who calls either car harsh must be used to old Cadillacs.

    The dealer is currently looking into whether he can get me a Sport with leather, NAV and a few other minor options. I also got him to agree to 3% over true cost (figuring in 2% of MSRP hold back). Wish me luck.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    It's been a while since I've seen an SUV with a black cloth interior. I reckon the outside is Silver?

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The same amount of power as HL, but an extra 6-700lbs of full-size growth will slow the reflexs quite a bit.

    Full-size SUVs need V8s. Real world economy will probably be lower in the full-size GMs, as merging and maintaining speed will be priorities. :(

    DrFill
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    The exterior was black also.

    We might end up going for a Ltd if my wife decides she wants the 3rd row. Currently we're looking at deleting it. However, a Sport with leather, 3rd row, NAV, tow and some other minor options is only about $500 less than a Ltd.
  • oman9oman9 Member Posts: 97
    I swung by a local area dealer earlier this week (Family Toyota in San Juan Capistrano) and noted that all 08 Highlanders on the lot had a $5,000 "Market Adjustment" added to the sticker price. An earlier poster was noting a $750 markup...how about $5,000??? Good thing I don't need to purchase a vehicle in next few months, hoping to do so by the end of the year.

    Anyone have experience with Family Toyota on the purchase and/or service side?
  • nimrod99nimrod99 Member Posts: 343
    Don't let the dealer snow you about no rear AC for northern CA. They are lying. Do you think Toyota makes a distinction that "better not let N California get rear AC". Lets make our options twice as difficult to manage.
    When I was buying my 2003 Highlander, the dealer told me that they had discontinued Bluestone. I checked with another dealer and they showed me the shipment logs which showed a ton of bluestones being delivered. Corporate offices also confirmed Bluestone was NOT being phased out. I went back to the original dealer to let him hang himself (again). I asked, "are you sure about Bluestone color being dropped" and he said yes. What a liar.

    I drove back there about a month later to show him my Bluestone Highlander, buy he was gone (probably fired).
  • qs933qs933 Member Posts: 302
    The arbitrary options by region aspect of Toyota is truly assanine.

    Somehow, I doubt that the region's choices are "arbitrary." After all, it's in their best interest to pick combinations that people want.

    I'll bet the dealer that stated that no Limiteds were coming in that region with the 3rd row air was desperately trying to sell whatever was on the lot. Why give a customer a reason to delay their purchase? :confuse:
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    Be that as it may, I see little logic in the way they pick and choose their options. If someone can explain it to me, I'd like to hear it.
  • flipwilsonflipwilson Member Posts: 12
    That's crap!!! With that pricing you are well within striking distance of a Lexus GX470. (my last vehicle that I had to get rid of due to employer policy) I paid $36800 2 years ago for a GX470 w/nav, mark levinson, and dvd player. The arrogance of these dealers really bothers me. I truly hope that GM, and the other CUV makers embarass Toyota this quarter in sales.
  • mtairyordgemtairyordge Member Posts: 144
    Your impressions are interesting to me. I have owned 3 HL Limited in the past 2001/03/04. IMHO the feel for the road was just right. I drove a Sport model yesterday and the drive felt 'mushy'. Almost nonexistent while going straight and then coming back when turrning. Always feeling stable but reminding me of those old Cadillac or God forbid my dad's old Grand Marquis -I call it the Hawaii 5-0 car because it is wht the lead character drove.

    This is troublesome to me why did Toyota take the rode feel away. I am looking to replace my 04 and will be test driving a limited later. But it sounds like I will be waiting for the Pilot redesign or moving up to a MDX. And I don't want to spend the extra money in operating the MDX.

    Anyone know when the Pilot Desiel is coming?
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    I was basically referring to ride and cornering ability. I agree that steering feel in all of them is totally lacking. I guess this is due to the electically boosted power steering but I would like more. It's not a sports car though so I can personally overlook it. For driving feel, I'd prefer an MDX among SUVs.
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    You have got to be kidding. On a rare or limited production car maybe, but a Highlander. Give me a break. I think this is short sighted of the dealer. They will drop soon enough and any dealer that does that goes to the rock bottom of my list for ALL future purchases.

    Fitzmall is advertising $1000 over invoice with TTL for comparison. That's got to be an $8000 spread.

    Anyways, HL is off my list without going to look at it. I would have bought an AWD limited with option C, but at over $40K with no memory seats and mirrors, forget it. At that price I have the Acura MDX, Volvo XC90 and Buick Enclave as viable options. Heck even the Hyundai Veracruz has memory seats for less money. Not to mention, I personally think the HL styling is boring, middle of the road and non offensive. Typical Toyota.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    One of the reasons dealers put market adjustment stickers on the windows is that they don't want to sell the vehicles!!!

    When the initial launch is made usually there are 1 or 2 or 3 vehicles rather than the 40 or 60 that should be in stock. If the 3 are sold then nothing is available to show to the rest of the public.

    However if a buyer absolutely has to have the very first one...and is willing to pay for the privilege... then why not? It a free country, nobody was holding a gun to the buyer's head. He could have waited 60 days or so. As long as it's fairly applied and clear in advance it's just the market at work.

    When the FJ's came out our Service Manager had to have one of the first ones. Normally we can buy at $450 over invoice ( we can get an FJ now at that price ) but he had to have one of the first ones...so he paid $1000 over MSRP.
  • hsvillagehsvillage Member Posts: 36
    I'm getting ready to buy an 2008 Highlander and have been looking at dealers that post their selling price on the internet. I'm familiar with Fitzgeralds in MD.& Taylor Toyota in Va. but does anyone know of other Toyota dealers in the continental U.S. that publish selling prices on the internet? I bought our 2001 Highlander from King's in Ohio over the 'net/phone and it worked out very well. They posted their prices and it beat our locals (Arkansas) by over $2K, plus no dickering/stalling, "I'll have to ask my manager" etc. Thanks for any help.
  • sallen10sallen10 Member Posts: 30
    There is plenty of logic. The packages are assembled with two buyers in mind: (a) the cheapskate who only wants a model with the minimum and (2) everyone else who would really like the better bells and whistles. Trouble is we too don't want to pay too much, but we will on account of the packages as assembled which optimizes profitability. Sadly, optimizing profitability does not maximize customer happiness which is really what you are remarking about.
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    So they only want to sell to two buyers? I'd think they'd want to sell to many more. I see more than two option packages by region so your explanation falls down.

    I don't want to pay for options I don't want, a sunroof forinstance. I also see little logic in how the option packages are assembled (in other words, why those combinations for package a, etc.).
  • qs933qs933 Member Posts: 302
    The best case scenario would be to have each Highlander custom-configured at the factory to each buyer's requirements. Want a sunroof but not the JBL audio? Sure. Want all options except the power rear door? No problem.

    Obviously that can't be done for a high-volume automobile. They have to build them based on what each region thinks will satisfy the most buyers. It's the 80/20 rule. Not everyone is going to be happy, but hopefully you'll be able to satisfy a majority of your buyers (otherwise you will be left with a lot of unsold inventory).

    Frankly, I'm not sure if there is a better, feasible alternative. Honda seems to release various model grades with no options. In the past, it was relatively simple -- DX, LX, EX. Now, when you look at their lineups, you have an EX with leather, EX with navigation, etc. That seems more confusing and even less flexible to me, IMHO.

    Nissan uses option packages that are factory-mandated, as opposed to being ordered as a package by a region. This means that if a factory package includes seat heaters, for example, I'm going to get those heaters even if they are of no use to me in my region where the temperature never goes below 70 degrees. That seems very inflexible to me as well.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I'm sure Toyota has released, and the dealership has sold, redesigned vehilces before, and there is a method to their madness.

    The first 60 days have limited supply, so buyers who can't wait until a full compliment of vehicles is received tend to fall into those categories rather easily, or they can wait until more vehicles arrive.

    The "I want NAV, but no moonroof" buyers can wait.

    Since discounts are hard to come by, buyers who want the latest, but at a low price, can get a lightly equipped model. Those that can't buy a car without NAV and other doodads will usually go for the gusto models. Or at least test drive them, and get sold on the hair and make-up.

    The model you really want is probably 60 days away. Dealers know you are weak. They're knida like women, although they aren't universally hated, but that's a story for another forum.... :blush:

    DrFill
  • dsw61dsw61 Member Posts: 2
    I had my second test drive today. I still think the steering is too light and lacks on center feel, but it's not a deal breaker. Overall I thought the ride was smooth and quiet, even over some rough pavement.

    The big problem I have with the vehicle is the seating configuration. You are very limited with the number of passengers and cargo you can comfortably carry. I can't believe they didn't offer a 2nd row 60/40 split bench and a 50/50 split 3rd bench. The second row middle seat is a joke. I don't think I would ever use it because it is so uncomfortable.

    On a positive note, the front seats and 2nd row captains seats are very comfortable.

    IMO the seating configuration is going to limit sales somewhat. The dealership I was at had at least eight on the lot. My salesman said that they weren't dealing yet, but he didn't think it would be long before they would have to start.

    My gut feeling is that Toyota missed the mark with the new Highlander because of the seating configuration. Don't get me wrong, the Highlander will sell just fine because of Toyota's reputation for quality. But I don't think the overall design is good enough to command a premium price for very long, given the competition.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The you get into manufacturing productivity. This is where Toyota and Honda veer sharply away from the domestics. With the Big 3 you can order what you want and theyll build it ala carte.

    With Honda you have NO OPTIONS.
    With toyota you have combined packages.

    Limiting the variations increases productivity during manufacturing, this increase the length of the runs which decreases downtime and potential processing errors...and increases profits.

    Every time Honda and Toyota come out with a new model it's the same discussion over and over and over. Then in 3 months there are all the variations you might want.. Life goes on
  • hvan3hvan3 Member Posts: 630
    I have to say, the new 08 Highlander is quite an ugly looking, cost reduction vehicle. It looks just like another Mitsubishi Outlander!
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    I get the reason for option packages. I have a degree in operations analysis. I'm pretty familiar with manufacturing processes. Part of what I'm saying is if Toyota wants to have options packages, then do it. Don't imply on Toyota's corporate site that I can get certain options and then feed me off to a regional site that disagrees. I'm not asking for options that don't exist. The parts are in the factory. I'm asking for them to be combined slightly differently than they are usually. That just takes some typing into a computer.

    Also, sure, Honda/Acura has option packages. No problem. The difference is those packages are nationwide and set by Honda, not some regional distributor.

    It doesn't matter really. I have zero sympathy for Toyota in this case. I know what they can do as far as manufacturing and I know what kind of people tend to work at dealers and at the regional level.

    It's pure stupidity that gets perpetuated because nobody thinks to try and do it better. The problems they've had with the Tundra launch bear out what I'm saying.
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    So what in its class is better?
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    Discounts don't seem that hard to come by. I got a dealer to agree to 3% above (invoice - holdback).
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "One of the reasons dealers put market adjustment stickers on the windows is that they don't want to sell the vehicles!!! "

    I disagree with you on this spidey. :shades: The reason some dealers do this is they hope to "snag" an ignorant, uninformed buyer. :blush:

    "1000.00 over MSRP"

    Heck, you have to change stores, I buy all my new cars at invoice or below. I can't believe you guys actually sold your service manager at $1000.00 over MSRP! :mad:

    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "I have a degree in operations analysis. I'm pretty familiar with manufacturing processes."

    Obviously not with Toyota's processes. ;) Toyota builds cars very differently than any other manufacturer of cars or widgets, or what have you. It's called the Toyota Production System, or TPS for short. Part of that system is the Just in Time system which consists of having only the parts that are needed for the vehicle being built two hours before they are needed.

    "The parts are in the factory."
    There are no spare parts laying around in the factory. I guess you forgot to read the fine print at the corporate website and on the brochures that states: "Not all options available in all regions. See your local dealer for availability"? or words to that effect.

    "I know what kind of people tend to work at dealers and at the regional level."
    And what kind of people would those be Sir?

    "The problems they've had with the Tundra launch bear out what I'm saying."
    And what problems would those be?
    Mackabee
  • pabloxpablox Member Posts: 92
    All manufacturers do JIT at this point. Also, most aren't building cars in batches of single models with a single combination of options. There will be one Ltd followed by one Sport followed by a base and so on. This is completely compatible with JIT.

    The cars for all regions are coming from the same factory so, there's no manufacturing reason the options shouldn't be available everywhere in the US. The "region" thing is stupid. If any other manufacturer does this, I haven't run across it. Does Nissan? Does Honda? I don't think so. Subaru doesn't. The Americans don't and the Europeans certainly don't.

    What kind of people work at dealers/regional distributors? The kind that totally misread the truck market and decided to order way too many base V6 Tundras and not nearly enough V8 4x4's with the extended cab. Read previous posts in this forum.

    If you're saying that people working in car dealers are highly educated geniuses, I'd love for you to direct me to one in my area.
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