2008 Toyota Highlander

qs933 · July 2007

The reason some dealers do this is they hope to "snag" an ignorant, uninformed buyer.

I agree. This isn't something new to Highlanders or even Toyota, in general. If an uninformed buyer doesn't know any better, they actually think "bargaining down" to MSRP is an excellent deal.

I can't believe you guys actually sold your service manager at $1000.00 over MSRP!

Supply and demand, pure and simple. If we all expect to pay less than the "suggested retail price," then I guess it's fair that a dealer can ask for a price higher than MSRP.

My salesperson told me that their employee discount still does not apply to the Prius or Camry Hybrids -- they pay MSRP (or slightly below) like everyone else.

qs933 · July 2007

It's pure stupidity that gets perpetuated because nobody thinks to try and do it better.

OK, I'll ask the question. What would you suggest as an alternative?

I prefer each region's ability to create their own packages. If you want to know what's available in your region, you simply enter your zip code on the corporate site. That's not that difficult.

That's better than forcing me to take options in a national "package" that make no sense for my region.

Don't imply on Toyota's corporate site that I can get certain options and then feed me off to a regional site that disagrees.

The language is pretty clear to me on the Toyota corporate site (and I don't even have a degree in operations analysis

).

"Not all options/packages are available separately and some may not be available in all regions of the country."

Would you care to suggest another way to present the various regional combinations on the corporate site?

verdugo · July 2007

"OK, I'll ask the question. What would you suggest as an alternative? "

How about the best of both worlds? Keep regional packages, but also allow customers to custom order any option they want.

Only a very small percentage would want to something that is not available in their region. This way, you wouldn't lose the sale.

kdhspyder · July 2007

Part of what I'm saying is if Toyota wants to have options packages, then do it. Don't imply on Toyota's corporate site that I can get certain options and then feed me off to a regional site that disagrees. I'm not asking for options that don't exist. The parts are in the factory. I'm asking for them to be combined slightly differently than they are usually. That just takes some typing into a computer.

./.

It doesn't matter really. I have zero sympathy for Toyota in this case. I know what they can do as far as manufacturing and I know what kind of people tend to work at dealers and at the regional level.

Now you're into marketing. Each regional market is different Toyota prefers keeping the control at the regional level.

You don't have to have any sympathy for Toyota, it's not like they are in trouble in any way. This marketing structure has made them the pre-eminent marketer in the auto industry, the one every other wants to emulate. It works better than any other system so kudos rather than sympathy cards is probably the right choice.

But no system will please everyone. Again this discussion comes up over and over again with each new launch. It aims to please the greatest number of potential customers most efficiently. Some will be annoyed and pass, most won't.

pablox · July 2007

Custom orders, assuming they're based on otherwise available options, should be totally compatible with a JIT inventory system.

Differing options by region might make sense in a few small cases (like the cold weather package makes no sense in FL) but are people's needs that much different across the country otherwise? Can you really say more people in Kansas want the rear entertainment system than people in CA or New England? I somehow doubt it.

Also, how many people in New England really want sunfoofs? It seems like a lot based on what dealers/regions order but everyone I know with a sunroof barely uses it.

jeffer3 · July 2007

One of the reasons I bought a Subaru was exactly because of the way most manufacturers package their options, including Toyota. I live in the North East and in order to get heated seats you are usually forced to a LTD with leather. I know that may be changing and I haven't gotten up to speed with all the changes but Subaru offers heated seats with every model including cloth seats. Why should us poor people have to freeze our *sses off because we can't afford the luxury high end model or options. That's one of my beefs.
Another corollary of this is when in order to get one option package they force you to get other options which have nothing to do with the option you want. This, imho, is just a form of gouging the customer. I don't have a discreet example but my impression is that Toyota seems to do a good job at this. Maybe that's where their expertise in marketing science has helped propel them to the top in terms of sales. That not withstanding I think they make some good products but I have been dissuaded from buying precisely because of the available packages force me into the high end to get what I want. I don't want leather and I don't necessarily want a sunroof since I use it about once a year. I do want heated seats, premium sound, and telescoping steering.
These are my impressions and I'll gladly accept any evidence pro or con and consider changing them as the facts warrant.
Tx
Jeffer03

nomorebenz · July 2007

I agree and disagree. The second row captain's give quick access to the third row. Anyone with three kids with at least two in child seats will appreciate the convenience.
The center seat is more for when you need to seat 7. Uncomfortable similar to a luxury sedan back seat (Two sculpted seats with the 'bump' in the middle).
I agree that the third row should be split. Without it, you lose often needed cargo space.
I have two similar configurations in my driveway. I prefer the 4+2(split) when I have 5 or 6 without cargo though the 50/50 third allows for 5 with limited cargo. The 5+2(bench) is good for 5 plus cargo or 6-7 without.
The split third would allow for the 6 plus cargo or the convenient 3 car seat kids plus room for the large stroller(AKA the minivan).

pablox · July 2007

I have a 2005 Legacy GT. I bought it for the power and AWD mostly. However, with Subaru it's very clear what is and what isn't possible. The GT came with either cloth interior and no sunroof or leather, powerseats and a sunroof. That's it and it didn't matter where in the country you're located.

The Outbacks and other models were all similar.

nxs138 · July 2007

The local salesman here told me he could custom order one, but it might take 3 months for the vehicle to come in.

I'm looking at the Sport model, and if I'm interested in just NAV and rear DVD as options, I'm out of luck in my region: it appears that I can only get the NAV or the DVD, but not both, and each are packaged with other options such as leather, sunroof, tow prep, dual climate control.

So I'm confused. Does that mean I can't get NAV and DVD in any configuration?

pablox · July 2007

I have seen Ltds with both NAV and DVD. In fact the one I test drove had it.

It seems that you're saying that the option packages defined by the regions don't meet your needs. Imagine that.

bsmestad · July 2007

I just finished buying a 08 Highlander Limited with option "B". I must be the odd person out, because I looked at every car (except chrysler's) that lauded themselves as a crossover. I never considered the Pilot. I looked at the Murano, MDX, MKX, Enclave and Lexus RX. I didn't really care if some are luxury and other's aren't, because i just wanted the best car, with similiar gas mileage, in the same price range. Wether you guys want to admit it to yourselves or not, the highlander is going to compete against the crossovers. The 4runner gets to go against the SUVs.

For the money, the highlander won.

Oh, I got it for $900 over invoice. I looked at it the first day they got it, and they said they didn't want to deal. Told them to call me when they were ready, and they called 4 days later. Just be patient, and you will get the car you want for the right price.

drfill · July 2007

Congrats! Sounds like you are on top of "The Game". Why was it better than the competition? How useful is the 3rd seat? How many people do you carry?

DrFill

mackabee · July 2007

"Wether you guys want to admit it to yourselves or not, the highlander is going to compete against the crossovers."

I never said otherwise. What I said was that based on MY experience I did not encounter many if any prospects looking at those vehicle and the Highlander. With this new redesign things may change. Congratulations and enjoy your new Toyota!
:shades:
Mackabee

kdhspyder · July 2007

Navi and RES are installed at the factory. Because the vast vast majority of buyers of the standard trims don't want to spend the money for Navi or RES they don't supply them that way. The buyers of the Limited trims often ask 'for everything' thus the inclusion.

That being said you can get both Navi and RES installed locally at the same price or less for one of the standard trims. From the factory you won't be able to get it on any trim other than the Limiteds ...at leaast at this point.

pablox · July 2007

NAV is available on Sports in the Ohio region.

bsmestad · July 2007

I was looking for something that could move around an infant, toddler, wife, sister in law and dog for trips under an hour, that don't involve too much baggage. Wife has a minivan for longer trips. Since I'm in MN, i wanted something with AWD/4WD. I would of loved a sedan like a Lexus GS AWD, but because i have 5 passengers and a dog, it was a no go.

Decision points were comfortable ride and fit (I'm rather tall, and the person behind me can be the wife if the baby is unhappy), MPG, final price hopefully around 40k w/ tax and finally options. Third row seat was not a must have, as we could stick the infant seat in the middle with the others on each side and dog in the back. However, it was preferred since as the kids grow, i didn't want to squish em together. I personally wanted Navigation, a stereo upgrade, and moonroof.

The RX AWD has mileage of 17/22 which is about normal. Around 40k, you pretty much get the base package, so no nav. However, the real killer was the relatively little leg room in back. With my seat back all the way, and some recline, the person behind me was hurting.

The murano never really had a chance. Small, and honestly, the dash was too weird for me. Sometimes things like that you just can't get past.

The Lincoln MKX was actually a solid contender. 17/24 MPG. Good legroom in the back, nice ride, and pretty much loaded at 43k with Nav, vista roof, and a nice stereo. With a stiff discount (its lincoln, I mean, they gotta go under invoice) got me in the ballpark.

The Enclave just sucked, IMHO. Cheap and bouncy with a high price tag to boost. Might be a good car for someone trying to get out of a suburban or minivan, but not someone moving up from a sedan.

The MDX was the closest competition and probably my backup plan if the toyota guys hadn't dropped their price. Base price at 40k, so that would work. They both had the same 2nd row leg room, and both have a somewhat limited 3rd row that was going to only work for the dog and kids. 17/22 MPG was close. Though, to keep the price in the ballpark, had to give up the technology package.

And that was the deciding factor. With the Highlander, i get the NAV, with the bluetooth, JBL stereo, and backup camera for 40k including Tax, title etc. With the MDX, I had to spend $3.5k more + the fact the Acura guy had to find me a technology MDX, and wasn't going to give very good discounts on one he found, it make the decision easy.

Long story short. As someone who looked at what I felt was a lot of cars, I think the MDX is competition to the Highlander Limited with option "B" or "C".

jeffer3 · July 2007

(this is more of a comment about the roof systems, not nec. directed as a reply to the message I'm replying to)
I've tested both Pilot and MDX and they drive very similar, difference mostly in interior, esp seat, quality.
But the one thing the MDX has that makes it useless to me is those stupid cross bars on the roof. Those things are practically useless. If you are an outdoors person and wish to put something on the roof you will find they reach their maximum capacity rather quickly unless you are only carrying a couple bikes. The Toe-Rag has the same problem as did the Tribeca. Some of the GM products I've seen I have a hard time figuring out what type of roof system they have or would require for an outdoor type.
For people into kayaking or needing to put 100+ lbs on the roof you need side rails and then decent load bars across the top. Add-on roof systems are OK but not as sturdy and can dent the roof (Thule on my 2000 Maxima did).
The Toe-Rag and Tribeca have corrected this design flaw for 2008 but not the MDX so you'll have to go with the Pilot if you want a good roof system with that vehicle as the base. Unless there is some technology out there that I don't know about. I'm open to new info.
thanks,
jeffer3

cali_ali · July 2007

Thanks for your two cents

I must agree with you that the new 08 Highlander is much more stylish and I love the smart key. Especially, since I'm always getting mini anxiety attacks when I can't find my keys. Then, ten frustrating minutes later I discover them at the bottom of my purse.
I think I will test drive them back to back. It feels good to have narrowed the search down to two vehicles. Your advice was hepful.

mackabee · July 2007

jeffer, they are purposely designed that way. As it was explained to me during the Highlander launch, they don't want people overloading the roof (although most do)rack, luggage rack, whatever you want to call it as it makes the profile of the vehicle taller and shifts the center of gravity of the vehicle and makes it more prone to tip over. Specially in strong winds like the Santa Ana's in California.

Mackabee

mackabee · July 2007

I would have sold my first one tonight but somebody else beat me to it. By the time my customer made up her mind she wanted it, it was too late. It was a nice one too

Limited 2wd with Nav and DVD in that new green color which I don't recall the name of right now. She may end up buying a 4runner instead since it has the special financing and with a good discount and two paid for trades gets her in the payment she can afford.
:shades:

drfill · July 2007

Not perfect together. I've lost many a sale that way.

DrFill

stever · July 2007

But there'll be another perfect car in a day or week or so, or at another dealer tomorrow.

Since women influence something like 85% of all car purchases in the US, you're talking a lot of sales lost!

drfill · July 2007

I've met a woman with, literally, a list of cars to drive/shop.

Or husbands complaining to me that this is the 5th car we've seen, today! Or how many months they've been "looking". :confuse:

One of the many reasons I got out of the business.

DrFill

qs933 · July 2007

eBay is one of my favorite sources for up close photos (real photos from all angles, as opposed to the flashy brochure shots).

So far, I've seen 4 listings for 2008 Highlanders. Three of them were Sports, one was a Base. Only two Sports remain listed as of this evening.

There was a red Sport 4x2 with navigation and leather from a dealer in TN that had a Buy-It-Now price of $43.5K (!). The auction was ended early and the photo replaced with a "sold" sign, so I guess someone bought it locally.

This one has a black leather interior. I'm not a big fan of all-black interiors (my 4Runner Sport has black seats, but most of the interior trim is two-tone dark and light grey).

There is a grey Sport from Arizona with the dealer-installed bodyside molding. It looks...well...not as good as I was hoping. It looks odd because the rear door has that large styling curve, which the molding does not cover. I was definitely planning on getting the molding, but now I'm not so sure. This one has the grey cloth interior and has the JBL audio, but manual front and rear A/C.

The other Sport is an AWD from Kansas (silver with black leather). Buy It Now is MSRP.

You should be able to locate these listings by searching for the Highlander and sorting by date. To see the completed auctions (i.e. to see the Red Sport), you'll need to log in.

Note: this is not an endorsement of any of these sellers; I'm just using them for their photos.

ramle · July 2007

"I've met a woman with, literally, a list of cars to drive/shop.
Or husbands complaining to me that this is the 5th car we've seen, today! Or how many months they've been "looking". "

This is so true, LOL

cassiesdad · July 2007

We are looking to buy an '08 Highlander and live in NC. Apparently, all Toyotas in our region get a special charge for SETD fee or somesuch, which seems to be in excess of $1,000.00. Does anyone know what the purpose of this is? Do you get anything extra for it or are the just adding it on because they can? Should we drive to Virginia and get the same car without the added charges?

If anyone can fill me in, I'd appreciate it or if I am wrong and there is no extra charge, I'd appreciate that as well.

Thanks

mackabee · July 2007

You should drive to Virginia and get it there.

The charge you speak of is their "admin" fee which is similar to our "advertising fee" or more commonly know as TDA. The TDA fee that shows up in our invoices is a legitimate fee and is paid by every dealer to TMS for the print and TV ads and brochures. Any questions just e-mail me.
Mackabee

kdhspyder · July 2007

What part of NC? Outer Banks perhaps? I live there but work in VA.

[the opposite side of town from Mackabee..

]

stever · July 2007

The Toyota Advertising Fees discussion may be of interest too.

Not to mention the Toyota Highlander: Prices Paid & Buying Experience one.

nxs138 · July 2007

I've always thought that there's something wrong with this business model: advertising is the cost of doing business, and should be built into the cost of the car. Trying to add it on as an additional fee is poor practice at best, and gives the impression that the dealer is trying to screw you (when in fact it could be Toyota screwing the dealer, but in the end it's the consumer that gets shafted).

kdhspyder · July 2007

You're right it is a cost of doing business and it should be built into the cost of the vehicle as marketing expense somehow. Every other product that advertises nationally just builds it in and increases the price by whatever the expense is.

Why Toyota enumerates it separately is behond me. It may have to do with the fact that in two regions Toyota doesn't control the operations of the regional offices. SET and GST are separate individually owned distributorships. These two may have lobbied to Toyota on the national level to break out the regional expense so that these two aren't at that much of a disadvantage.

It's still weird. But as to getting shafted. Not really. GM and Ford do exactly the same...except that they don't show you the details. They too add the national/regional advertising into the price, it's just that they don't enumerate it separately.

mtairyordge · July 2007

A link was posted here that went to the internet owners manual. It had lots of good descriptions of the Highlander.

Does anyone know what the link is. It was posted here.

scottgbwi · July 2007

This might be it.
Toyota Guide

pablox · July 2007

I'm not sure I'm really following this post correctly but here's a couple of points.

1. For 2007, the MDX drives WAY better than the Pilot. Are you sure you drove a 2007 MDX?

2. In most cases, any factory installed crossbars (as opposed to rails) are removable. You can buy adaptors from Yakima or Thule to mount their crossbars on most factory roof rails. In fact, on the MDX, the roof rails are optional and installed by the dealer. The crossbars are an additional option. So, I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. The MDX is perfectly fine in this regard.

pablox · July 2007

On the vehicles I've seen, the load limit on the roof is about 150lbs. That's plenty for a couple of kayaks.

mackabee · July 2007

You are correct. However, most people not only put kayaks on them but also car carriers, luggage, bikes, and who knows what else. As I said, they were only designed to carry the weight that is specified on the rack.

Mackabee

mackabee · July 2007

"Why Toyota enumerates it separately is behond me"

They break it down because Toyota Motor Sales USA was sued out in California in the late 80's or early 90's regarding ad fees dealers were adding to the selling price of the vehicles. If I recall, the plaintiffs were awarded a huge amount and the participants recieved a certificate for $150.00 off their next new vehicle purchase. I recall calling TMS to verify pay-offs and there was a recording telling the caller about the lawsuit and the settlement. I'll look it up and tell you about it.

floridagal2 · July 2007

I agree that the new 08 Highlander is great looking. We could get a great deal on an 07, but the design is so boring. As far as the MDX one reviewer is touting, we did like it, but they've ruined the back of it now and not only that, consumer reports shows some black marks in the past.

So, we'll have to fork out some big bucks!!

pablox · July 2007

I'm sure lawyers had their say in that spec. I once carried two mtb's and two 17' kayaks on a '99 Passat and drove 350 miles that way. The total weight exceeded the spec by 25lbs but the car didn't all of a sudden implode as a result.

Also, who's putting a car carrier on their roof rack?

mackabee · July 2007

Don't under estimate the stupidity of John Q. Public.

Last night on my way home there was a Honda Accord early 90's model on the side of the expressway. Cars are braking all over the place as the driver of the Accord is dodging traffic to get to his box spring and mattress set that's sprawled in the first two lanes of the four lane express. :shades:
Mackabee

pablox · July 2007

lol, well that is a bit different. I hate people who do that stuff.

epiney · July 2007

As far as the MDX one reviewer is touting, we did like it, but they've ruined the back of it now and not only that, consumer reports shows some black marks in the past.

What do the black marks in the previous generation have to do with the new model?

stever · July 2007

It's not just the weight to be conscious of, but where it's carried. Putting stuff on the roof of a SUV can make it top heavy and change the driving dynamics.

mtairyordge · July 2007

yes it is Thanks a bunch

nimrod99 · July 2007

Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We apologize for the delay in our response and the difficulty experienced in trying to find your vehicle of choice.

We apologize; you are having difficulty locating a 2008 Highlander with CFC-free rear automatic digital climate control system with integrated multi-function display, air filter and rear vents for second- and third-row seats. Vehicle allocation is based on the geographical area in which they are marketed. Toyota dealerships and distributors are prepared to take your request and make every attempt to obtain the desired vehicle.

If the dealership is unable to locate the vehicle of choice, they may submit a preference request for your desired vehicle. This preference request does not guarantee you will receive the vehicle with the exact options requested, and may create an extended wait-time.

We encourage you to contact the Customer Relations Manager at your local Toyota dealership for further assistance.

microbust · July 2007

Nimrod99,

If you are following up on my question about getting a Limited with rear A/C, Thanks. In my efforts to locate such a vehicle in NorCal, I have found dealers efforts ranging from dismissive to helpful. The one salesperson who was helpful said he found one vehicle with rear A/C in all of NorCal that he could possibly get his hands on. However, ordering such a vehicle per the salesman would not guarantee I would get it and would demand that I pay MSRP. I did call corporate Toyota which said NorCal will get this option but it hasn't so far. I am waiting hopefully.

floridagal2 · August 2007

Reliability of the past models and forecast for the future models.

epiney · August 2007

Reliability of the past models and forecast for the future models

Perhaps as a general trend, but less useful when there is a full model changeover. The black for the early MDX (01,02) were for a transmission problem that was fixed in subsequent years. A few black marks 5 years that were fixed are really meanlingless for forecasting. In fact the 08 Highlander is a bigger unknown than the MDX. At least the MDX has one year of history. And Toyota can mess up new models, The new Lexus GS model was reponsible for dropping Lexus from fisrt to fifth place in CRs relaiablity rankings. Ask the new Camry and ES 350 owners that had transmission flare problems how they feel about reliability.

To say that the new Highlander is more reliable than the new MDX because of CR black marks for the old model is a stretch. I think both of these models are going to be pretty reliable. To the point that a decision to buy either should be based on other factors.

Now if you want to say that dealer service and maintenance is likely going to more expensive at Acura than Toyota... that's another story.

jeffer3 · August 2007

I think the Subaru Outback load limit on the factory cross-bars is 100 lbs. So I was surprised when I bent the front cross bar the first time I used it. I have a 65 lbs kayak. The problem was not the weight of the boat but the bar bent as I was cinching down the 2" nylon strap. As I pulled the strap tight, I like my tie-downs to be tight, the damn crossbar bent in half causing the screws in the kayak cradle to push directly into the glass on the sun-roof which pushed the sun-roof down about 1/2" so it no longer maintained the seal. The fact the screws were pushing direclty into the glass was enough to tell me I could not drive in that condition as the glass could easily break. This almost ruined my vacation.
I relate this story in case it may help other people make sensible decisions on what and how they tie stuff to their roofs, and the fact I don't want to be driving behind you if you are not extra careful about those choices. ;0
I did just do a little more research and found that there are heavier duty cross-bars that apparently can fit into the existing tracks on vehicles such as the MDX so that makes me feel a little better. However those tracks don't make me ooze with confidence that they can handle any appreciable load.
My previous vehicle I had add-on clamp like system on a Nissan Maxima. It did the trick for the 5 years I used but I always felt that that system would more easily lend itself to user error (i.e failure to stay on the roof) if not tightened down properly. Also it put little dents in the roof which might impact your resale value.
Personally I feel safest with side rails mounted as a factory install and then using a good sturdy load bar across the top. This insures your roof system should not be the point of failure. I also check my straps and tie-downs frequently on long trips whenever I stop just to make sure.

tx
Jeffer3

jeffer3 · August 2007

Another issue to be aware of is clearance. When you put a bike on an MDX that can easily put the height up to, well I don't know for sure but I'll guess between 8'- 10' high. It gets very ugly when you try to drive under a bridge that is shorter than what you are carrying. I tried this - ONCE. Luckily it was just a covering at the entrance of a motel and I was only going 2mph and stopped in time to avoid any permanent damage to vehicle, bikes, and portico.

Jeffer3

2008 Toyota Highlander

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