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Comments
Also, we don't know anything about fuel efficiency just yet-just that Toyota said its comparable to the previous generation. I'll take that - faster, roomier, safer and still as efficient as the slower, smaller, and less rigid model? Why is that so wrong?
~alpha
Hybrid = late Sept, I believe
~alpha
Another boring Toyota. At least the interior looks nice (for a 1990's car)
The quality difference isn't all that significant any more (Toyota recalled more vehicles in '06 than it sold), and they're still looking for a sense of style. OK- they are better looking than Subaru's (and I say that affectionately, as I just bought one), but design style is an area where GM could teach Toyota a thing or two.
And WRT fuel efficiency, M/T states "Toyota will offer a four-cylinder model, but it won’t be ready until some time in 2008. Toyota is saving the Highlander’s engine bay for a new generation of four-cylinder engines. The fours will range in size from about 2.5 liters to 2.8 liters, and will feature a dramatically lower-friction drivetrain and advanced cooling system."
Seems like the organization was smart in not putting in the middle-aged but very competent 2.4L - power and efficiency would likely suffer in the new iteration, and the current gen. struggled with this engine, IMO, in AWD versions...
I'm hoping to see at least 175 horse out of the 2.5L, and FE gains over the current 2.4L.
~alpha
You think that tomorrow all SUVs can get better mileage than a Prius, but that the car companies just refuse to do it even though all the customers want it?
Less weight costs more money to achieve.
Here's a very light--but consequently expensive--car:
But it costs $75,000.
You can't afford the extra fuel economy. They could make the cars out of carbon fiber, but then you won't be able to buy them.
Maybe you should examine your lifestyle and see if it is financially sustainable if fuel costs are a concern. Maybe you need to downsize.
It goes like this:
===========================
Consumer wants more and more "safety" every year (whatever that is anymore).
Manufacturers add--stiffer metals, more airbags,roll sensors, fancy new traction technology, collision avoidance chips, make the vehicles bigger and with stronger materials.
Weight goes through the roof.
Mileage sinks like a stone.
Costs go up.
Consumer cries about mileage.
Car companies use exotic materials like carbon fiber, plastics and trick engine tech.
Those cannot overcome the extra weight that the "More safety!" lobby wants.
Mileage increases by negligible amounts.
Costs go up. Prices follow.
Consumers stop buying.
Rebates follow.
Car companies lose money.
No money for engineering slows down other progress on fuel economy.
=========================
The simple fact is, if you can feel it, you can't afford it.
Downsize, move out of your fancy subdivision and closer to work.
Get a smaller car--or better yet--bike or use public transport.
Toyota plays as safe as possible with every design. Even interior is really not that special compared to Honda.
And I agree reliability went down with the Avalon (which the HL shares parts with it). Honda and few other brands are just as reliable.
The other problem is that at the price it probably will compete with Acura MDX (a loaded 4WD HL will approach MDX).
Fuel economy is definitely not class leading either...
I could understand you would buy it because you're used buying Toyota and you feel you can trust the reliability (and it doesn't have to excite you either). It's sad though you can't have an exciting car as well.
And if you say you're going to compare a Toyota interior to a Honda interior, you might actually want to choose a Honda interior, and not that of a $48K Acura. A better comparison might be HL vs. Pilot, or RX350 vs. MDX.
Toyota reliability has been an issue with a FEW of the recent first year designs. The Avalon included. However, Honda is not immune to this (reference the VCM issues with the Ody). Time will tell.
Bottomline, the GMC Acadia,Saturn Outlook, Mazda CX-9 look much better IMO.
I do enhoy the interior of the highlander, at least they did not fail there.
B.
I personally don't like the trend that all of the manufacturers have taken to get rid of the body side moldings. I think the flat panels are too plain looking and while one could argue the effectiveness of them, the moldings on my '07 HL are quite wide and have to do some good, I would think.
If you watch the video from the car show, when the guy opens the hood, there is still a prop stick to hold the hood open. This looks real cheap and old Japanese small car design. Does Toyota only use the hydraulic hood openers in the Lexus line?
I prefer the current angled window switch panels as opposed to the new flat panels. I think the 45 degree angle makes it easier to see the buttons. I hope that they at least have all of the buttons lit at night now as opposed to the current design where just the driver's window button is lit.
I wish that the left foot rest for the driver was a solid rubber block like on my wife's Tribute. The way Toyota does it, it is a rubber insert with carpet all around it. Not very practical because when you feet are snowy and muddy, the carpet gets destroyed.
You don't have to buy a car that is not exciting.
Honda and Acura make very good-looking and exciting cars as well.
Toyota will never change if you keep buying everything they make based on ignorance and misconceptions.
We know Toyota can make good-looking cars:
You just have to refuse to buy the ones that aren't.
So I tend not to listen to Toyota loyalists who whine. It is up to you to change Toyota.
The MDX is as loaded at 40K already. The options you get for the extra 8K are not even available on the HL (adaptive suspension, video entertainment, heated rear seats, power tailgate, ...).
Sure I'd make a tiny, tiny statement by not buying it (and maybe a bigger statement if more people think that way).
Hope Toyota gets the message:-).
Don't get me wrong I can still see why many people will buy the '08 HL. It's just disappointing that Toyota doesn't want to take the slightest risk in design. Probably better if we would have never seen the concept...
The MDX is more loaded at 40K. The options you get for the extra 8K are not even available on the HL (adaptive suspension, video entertainment, heated rear seats, power tailgate, ...). Sure comparing to Pilot is more fair but the pricing difference is really not that big unless you go with the base.
Sure I'd make a tiny, tiny statement by not buying it (and maybe a bigger statement if more people think that way).
Hope Toyota gets the message:-).
Don't get me wrong I can still see why many people will buy the '08 HL. It's just disappointing that Toyota doesn't want to take the slightest risk in design. Probably better if we would have never seen the concept...
~alpha
I do assume most don't buy the fully loaded HL and can do without leather seats, heated seats, moonroof (?)...
However with the hybrid you can't get it at an entry level price (it's now already starting at $37K without even a sunroof)...
Therefore I was comparing it with a luxury SUV...
As for this: "I'll take that - faster, roomier, safer and still as efficient as the slower, smaller, and less rigid model? Why is that so wrong?"
I do appreciate your philosophy there, and that is the traditional way the automotive industry has worked. But gas was spiking close to $3.50/gal around here this summer, and I am sure that future spikes will be a good deal higher in the next five years or so. So me, I would have opted for "just as fast or a touch slower (this is NOT a sports car, nor is it meant to be one), roomier, safer, and more fuel-efficient". Just a different perspective, that's all. Sigh.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It is the more unreliable cars who must come up with more modern design to sell their vehicles because they are not as reliable. And so it goes.............
07 08
Length 184" 188.4"
Width 72" 75.2"
Height 69.3"
Wheelbase 106.9" 109.8"
Ground Clearance 7.0" 8.1"
Although I am not quite sure of the height of the 07, I believe it is about 1" less than the 08.
Nothing to lose any sleep over as far as specs that I can see.
The CR-V certainly changed so it's possible Honda takes also a more redical approach with the Pilot.
I doubt there will be a FT-SX. It would compete directly with the HL/RAV4 and Toyota hasn't ever done that before.
I do believe the rumor that there will be a new Lexus crossover which might be based on the FT-SX. The next RX will be bigger and therefore that would fit well.
Regarding weight: IIRC correctly on average every 10% reduction of weight results in 5% fuel economy improvements.
So that might be not that much in this case.
Also with the additional standard safety features and other gagdgets I can see why it's heavier.
I would love to see a 4 cylinder that would be more fuel economic even if it's slower. But we're not living in Europe:-(... Toyota rather saves manufactoring costs by just offering 1 engine and the HP race is still on:-).
~alpha
Additionally, I've said it before and I'll say it again, from what I've read the 500 lb weight gain applies to the Hybrid - Here is what the press release states:
------------------------------------------------------
Highlander's advanced Hybrid Synergy Drive system has been extensively upgraded and refined for 2008 for both power and economy. The new Highlander gained about 500 pounds, growing significantly in every dimension and receiving extensive body and chassis reinforcement, aimed specifically at achieving best-in-class crash ratings. Not only were engineers able to increase output to 270 net horsepower, they were able to maintain Highlander Hybrid's impressive fuel economy at 31 city and 27 highway.
----------------------------------------------------
All of that info is WRT the Hybrid; there is a separate section for the Highlander (gas).
I would be VERY surprised if the gas Highlander AWD V6 tips the scales at 3800 + 500 = 4300 lbs.
~alpha
There will be a new Toyota cross-over vehicle. It will not compete with the HL or RAV. Although car based, the HL and RAV look like SUVs. The new cross-over (based on the FT-SX)will resemble a fancy tall wagon. It will be larger than the Matrix. Toyota is going to try and cover every corner of the market (like it does in Japan). They are looking at improving total vehicle sales. They are the only company that has the financial resources to develop new vehicles.
In additon, Lexus is also going to introduce a smaller SUV styled vehicle in the near future. The RX will not grow substantually. Lexus already has 2 larger SUVs in their lineup (GX and LX).
The $37K is the 4WD Hybrid base. The 2WD Hybrid MSRP is $33K. So yes I forgot to mention I was looking for 4WD only... Still $33K is still steep (and doesn't even include a sunroof). I think the Camry is better priced over the non-hybrid.
I haven't heard anything about 2008 pricing. Will it be the same? Typically it's slightly higher.
Haven't heard before that Toyota is planning another crossover but would be interesting if true (especially if it's FT-SX). Europe already has several 'crossovers' (Verso models) but I don't think they would do well in the US.
The 2008 Matrix should be coming soon...
YOur initial phrase says it all.
IOW.. 'I saw a headline and I didn't bother to see what the details were all about....'
Just in case you might be interested to know the real story it applies to vehicles designed in the 80's and built in the 90's....many of which are still on the road with no problems whatsoever. Want more facts?
Did you just wake up from a 10 yr sleep? But thanks for your helpful insights to the Highlander.
I’ll say. I recently traded in a 02 Highlander V6 with 106,212 km for a 07 Santa Fe 3.3 FWD GL Leather Pkg (5 pass). In the five years of ownership never had a mechanical problem, just followed regular maintenance, that’s it. Maybe I was lucky I don’t know but it’s quite amazing really.
I can't wait to see the final standard and optional feature list for each model. Hopefully there will be other new features that are minor (and therefore not mentioned in Toyota's PR), such as what appear to be puddle lamps on the rear-view mirrors of the Limited.
The photo of the Highlander interior and the MDX interior left me very impressed with the Highlander. These two are definitely in different classes, yet the Highlander looks just as luxurious.
I saw an MDX on the road today and found myself a bit underwhelmed with the styling. However, I thought it was extremely attractive in the photos I saw when it was first introduced. I'm hoping the opposite will happen for me with the Highlander.
Another interesting comparison is to the RX350. The '08 Highlander leapfrogs the RX with larger wheels (19" on the Sport and Limited) and features such as the push-button start ignition. I guess that's the drawback of a staggered product life-cycle between the two models.
The settlements at the time were taking care of the smaller V-6 (a 3.4 maybe? It's in older Siennas and pickups) but not the larger V-6 in the Tundra. Perhpas they are taking care of that engine now too.
There are countless articles in and out of the automotive industry talking about how Toyota may have grown too far, too fast, because there has been a noticeable decline. Don't forget, we're still talking better than the domestics.
These same articles talked about how good Hyundai has gotten quality wise. Perhpas that will help you remember the sort of articles I'm talking about.
David Becker
Peter
The '08 HL was a little too long in coming huh? The current model has run on too long, IMO.
:-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I will reserve my final opinion until Summer when it hits the showroom floors.
I have seen the new GM crossovers in person and they are much better looking than this. Even the Ford Edge is better looking.
And... have you driven the Edge, its actually a quite nice vehicle, as long as you plan your stops in advance.
~alpha
I will assume that the new GM crossovers are well made and have the latest technology with the new VVT engines and 6 spd trannies and active/passive safety features. They are however bigger than both the Pilot and new Highlander by a noticable amount. The new GM 2-mode hybrid system in the future will be, if it comes in as advertised, as good a boost as the HSD is for the HH or the eventual diesel is for the Pilot/MDX ( lots going on in this segment ).
Buyers wanting minivan room for 7 passengers, but not a minivan, IMO will look at the GM trio before the Highlander/Pilot. OTOH those not needing this large amount of space will likely opt for the smaller, and possible nimbler duo from Toyota and Honda.
Now complicate everything with the 2-Mode, HSD, diesel options.
Most people I read think they looks smaller than their interior volume suggests.
I don't even understand why "looking huge" (whatever that is) is important, if the vehicle offers power, handling, ride and more space for the same fuel economy.
"Looking huge" is the last consideration in car purchasing--if at all. It's really way down there, since it has no practical value whatsoever. It's just as subjective as "looks" if not more so.
What surprised me and probably drew me to the 07 Santa Fe is how similar it is to the present day Highlander in dimensions, performance, drive, comfort, cargo capacity and safety only in a more modern package. Only negative is reliability, that’s an unknown to me although supposedly present day Hyundai service and reliability is way improved and the 5year/100,000 km Warranty is certainly a bonus.
Reread my short post - in person, I found the GMs undeniably large, much to my surprise based on photographs (I did not state this outright, but perhaps relied mistakenly on the ability of forum readerreaders to get that I was surprised by this)
~alpha
It sure would be nice to plug in an IPod, have it download all the text and then just tell it what song to play. Toyota has been behind on this technology and I'm sure not trading in my '01 HL for a Ford.
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2008-toyota-highlander/
2) I routinely see '07 Highlanders being discounted close to $4,000 off of MSRP inclusive of dealer and/or customer incentives. In contrast, RAV 4s typically get perhaps $1,500 off sticker and therefore the two cars appear to sell for similar prices. Is it fair to assume that if I purchase an '08 HL (base, fwd, V6 - obviously), I will probably end-up paying $4,000 more than a similarly equipped '07 HL? If so, is it worth the difference in price. Subjectively, I approve of the new looks, however, unless the '08 has increased driver's leg room and thigh support, I personally see no benefit as I don't need the extra passenger space and the vehicle offers no gain in economy (mpgs) as stated in the press release. In advance, thanks.
2. I see 07 Highlanders with those kind of discounts out here but only for "4s" not V-6s. The only discount for those is the $1,500 manufacturer rebate at the present time.