Toyota to add more hybrids.....

john1701a · August 2003

> A car cannot produce accelerations that are not
> experienced by the occupants

You obviously haven't been in a Prius.

What is there to feel? Nothing shifts and the RPM remains constant.

When first experienced, it kind of leaves you hanging. You expect the soft thump of an automatic transmission changing. But instead, you get nothing. Then later, the smooooooooth grows on you.

JOHN

daysailer · August 2003

I forgot that the Prius is not subject to the laws of physics. Silly me!

john1701a · August 2003

Which law would that be?

It sounds like you are a lawyer.

With 56,300 miles of Prius driving now, I know what I'm talking about. It is remarkably smooth, despite what you claim.

JOHN

nippononly · August 2003

I drive a Prius every week, and I certainly feel it moving away from a stoplight, and when it stops too! G-force, however slight, can most certainly be felt in this car, just as in any car.

john1701a · August 2003

> G-force, however slight, can most certainly be
> felt in this car

Yes, but there isn't any feeling produced from mechanical operation, no shifting of any kind despite the fact that motor & engine ratios are changing. That was the point... and still is. Once acceleration begins, feeling remains consistant as speed increases.

JOHN

daysailer · August 2003

that the present comments were spawned by your statement:

> "......... you can't FEEL the
> agressive steering ability."

what does that "agressive steering ability" accomplish if not lateral acceleration?

> "Your eyes see it though!"

Now THAT is a new twist, in lieu of dynamic performance, we have dynamic imagery! Sounds like a video game to me, or maybe just a vivid imagination.

john1701a · August 2003

> what does that

Topics rapidly wander here. Not having any type of thread concept on this forum causes that. The nature of posts, especially with titles, make it even worse.

> Now THAT is a new twist

Since when? I've been flying flight simulators since the 80's. My favorite thing to do is to fly using nothing but the instruments, ignoring other data inputs... like sight. Then I'll switch and do the opposite. The result is a very different flight experience.

It is very possible to make driving decisions based on input from alternate sources. If you know the length a turn is, the speed you are traveling at, and the condition of the road, you can determine whether or not you are going to make it... no feeling sensation needed.

Yes, that is very much like a video game. What's your point? Do you just automatically contradict opinions to keep the discussion going?

Some people turn around to verify no one is behind or on their side, other people exclusively rely on mirrors. Either will get the job done.

JOHN

daysailer · August 2003

that when you said "can't FEEL....", you really mean't "I choose not to feel ....". Interesting how your sensory inputs are switchable.

I don't "automatically" respond to any comments, but statements that are illogical, irational, and or inconsistent with fact are hard to resist.

Enough topic drift, this tread isn't about the Prius.

john1701a · August 2003

> you really mean't "I choose not to feel ...."

No, twisting words again... you're attempt to mislead won't work.

"from mechanical operation" is still my point.

And once again, there is nothing to feel from that.

This isn't even remotely on topic anymore, so no further acknowledgement will occur. Choose something relevant to the forum to discuss.

JOHN

nippononly · August 2003

on Toyota hybrids?

:-)

nippononly · August 2003

in the latest issue of MT, they state that Toyota is thinking of bringing out a hybrid Tundra for the '05 model year, when they bring out the next gen of that model. Imagine a full-size pick-up with a 10K-pound towing capacity and fuel economy in the mid-20s (or possibly even more around town)!

This would finally be an application that caters to the hybrids' strengths: diesel-like torque at low speeds.

varmint · August 2003

Apparently GM just developed prototypes for in-wheel motors. The tech is experimental, but if they can get it off the ground and made cheaply, they might be able to give Toyota a run for their money.

john1701a · August 2003

Toyota already has a type of in-wheel electric motor. It's used in their hybrid minivan, the Estima (available only in Japan). That's how they make it 4-wheel-drive.

JOHN

nippononly · August 2003

of the in-wheel electrics has GM wavering on whether it wants to pursue the program, doesn't it? With all the plan-changing GM has done on hybrids, I am very curious to see what their first hybrid model looks like that actually makes it to showrooms...

daysailer · August 2003

would do to unsprung mass, and consequently to handling, is disturbing.

varmint · August 2003

John - Sorry, I thought the Estima used additional motors, connected through a half shaft, which is not the same as an in-wheel design. The source describing GM's efforts makes it "seem" like they have something original.

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0308/12/b02-242629.htm

Daysailer - Prototypes and expected uses appear to be truck-baised, not sport cars. Handling is a lesser issue when compared with the supposed benefits of the design.

daysailer · August 2003

class of vehicles even worse, does not give me warm fuzzies either!

nippononly · August 2003

already so heavy, and motors in the wheels would lower the center of gravity! :-P

varmint · August 2003

Giving trucks wheel independent AWD would also improve handling. The affect would be similar to having AWD and a LSD directing the power. And while the motors may add to the unsprung weight, they would probably be lighter (overall) than adding motors and driveshafts.

mrvadeboncoeur · August 2003

http://www.lexus.com/about/hybrid/
The video is where all the information is hiding...
The Lexus RX400H looks like a rebadged RX330 (small SUV/CUV).
Uses the new Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive, as seen
in the new 2004 Prius.

I believe that the RX330 is the "luxury cousin" of
the Toyota Highlander, so it would make sense to
see a hybrid Highlander around the same time as the
RX400H.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2003

City of Aspen has just voted to give any hybrid vehicle free parking and $100 refund on registration. At $1.00 an hour, the parking perq is a pretty good one. I figure to the average citizen the deal is worth maybe $700 a year. Over the course of the vehicle's lifetime (let's say 9 years) that's a pretty good incentive don't you think?

IF this were offered in your town (and if it made some sense where you live to have free parking), would such an incentive possibly tip you over into buying a hybrid?

rsholland · August 2003

It's an excellent incentive.

Bob

nippononly · August 2003

that would probably tip me toward a hybrid...:-)

varmint · August 2003

I wonder if there's a dual motive in that incentive. Free parking would also increase foot traffic and bolster sidewalk businesses, like cafes and retail.

coolguyky7 · September 2003

http://www.msnbc.com/news/958087.asp?0cv=CB20

Toyota's increase in sales is going to continue to grow if it can get hybrid technology into mainstream models ahead of the Big 2.5.

katherine6 · September 2003

I live in the Boston area where parking spaces are at a premium,so parking for long periods of time actually decreases foot traffic. Thus we have 2 hour parking limits, and $50 fines. Ironic, as cities are the place where hybrids are most beneficial.

Toyota to add more hybrids.....

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