2013 and earlier-Acura TL Prices Paid and Buying Experience

robertw477 · July 2009

Just got the Acura TL with tech. Got black on black. Car looks very sharp with the chrome etc. Personally I think the car has a bold distinctive look. Definitely a mans car. 36 Month Lease 12K miles. Cost 480 a month in south Fla Plus 6% tax.

Initial Fees first month and tax. No other bs. Transaction was smooth. I had been pretty disappointed with many of the Acura dealers I spoke to, and one trip to a dealer. This was a small dealer. Frankly who cares the size of the dealership? The largest dealer of Acura (so they claim) in south fla is also the highest priced.

A few comments. The TL has new models coming in sept. Somebody may find deals next month on leftover 09s in regular and tech. I think this car really shines with the tech package. Without TECH this car loses a great amount of its appeal. This is my opinion, but I really believe this. I know the car business is soft. The dealers still want to unload the 09s so they can build people in the 2010s at higher prices. The car is basically the same for 2010 I think a little more interior space. So if you want this car I suggest get an 09 before they sell out if you want this car. Customers coming in will be pushed to the TSX 2010 or the TL 2010. It is always bad pricewise to get the new ones just as they roll out. Even in a lousy car market they will get some advance sales and they will be careful to hold the line on price.

robertw477 · July 2009

I believe you. I didnt check myself. Both dealers where I saw the car told me 700. I ended up getting the TL today. The TL has a very bold look. The G37 is a softer more neutral car. Seemed like an excellent build on both cars. If it means anything my salesman told me he likes the handling better on the TL in rainy South fla much over the G37 which he drives and a few friends. He sold the their cars. American Honda offers great lease support. At least 2 tires are covered when you return the car if they need replacement.

Rob

cman7 · July 2009

I am about to offer $26000 for a 08 TL with 10,000k.

The car is in great shape from a local non-Acura dealer. The car was pre certified at a Georgia Acura dealer in March. The had the TL on the lot for 3 months and could not move it due to the economy. So they moved it to one of thier group dealers in another area, is the claim. I checked car fax, and it concurs the history. I drove it a few times, and it drives great.

They have accepted my offer. Do you think this is a good deal ? Hoping for some quick feedback from this great forum.

dash5 · July 2009

Just going by the Edmunds car appraisal for an 08 TL with 10k miles 26,000 sounds fine. They have that as the Private Party TMV.

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2008/acura/tl/100902909/options.html?tmvaction=vdpre- sult

harky · July 2009

Just completed a deal for base model at DCH Montclair Acura.

Based Model + All Weather Mat + Cargo Tray + Splash Guard for $31,700. Financed through Honda Finance for 60 months at 3.9%.

vchad · July 2009

Cman7, personally i WOULD NOT BUY THIS CAR. The 08 NON-navi, at the end of 08 were selling for msrp minus about 5k. My sister-in law got her NEW 08 NON-navi for 27.5. They had a big rebate to get rid of the older body styles.

So for a car, thats now almost 2yrs old, and having 10k miles, NOT a good deal. They gladly took your offer because they "found a sucker". Id offer 23.5

cman7 · July 2009

How did you come up with the number $23.5K ? I thought the end of cycle rebate was $3000, not $5000.?

seif · July 2009

where are you getting 08 Non-Nav for $23.5K?

i have been looking to buy a CPO TL and I am finding 2006 models with anywhere from 20K+ miles in the $23K's. all the 07's or 08's are at least $27K or higher. i would love to get a 2008 for $23K and change. (FYI: I am in NY/NJ area).

if you can find me the right 2007 or 2008 around $23K i will offer a $250 fnder's fee.

kyfdx · July 2009

Posts about other members are not productive... and will not be tolerated.. Those posts have been removed.

Further comments are not expected or appreciated.

regards,
kyfdx
Host-Prices Paid Forums

seif · July 2009

if that guy can find me the car that he claims exists it will be VERY productive for both him and me. he makes money and i get the car i want. sounds like everybody gets what they want. unfortunately a unicorn could likely be produced before that car...

vchad · July 2009

Unless my english is off, let me elaborate since so many of you found my comment so outrageous. before I begin, let me advise you to do your homework before you bash others.

i SUGGESTED he pay only $23.5 for the car, i DID NOT say it was readily available everywhere. now i will explain why I came to that conclusion.

A 2005 of lease, with around low to mid 30k mileage when returned on lease, is sold by honda, on average to dealers around 17k. The same Acura dealer advertises it for $25k on the lot, with cpo. How do i know? because my dealer, Ann arbor Acura did the exact same thing for me, i paid them 500 "service fee", and they resold it to me for 18.4 with cpo. Do they do this for everyone, NO..but it doesn't hurt asking.

now my thought process on the 2008. At the end of 2008, there was a 3k rebate, and most dealers took around 5.5k to 6k off sticker, to move the old body style, in preparing for New bodystyle 09. If you are not aware of this, there are only about 25pages on this very own thread to read, if not, Read Acurazine.com

So the BASE non-navi(in my opinion terrible looking without navi) could be had for 27-28k Easily. once again, check the threads. So now your telling me, a car, thats been used for 10k miles, sitting on the lot most likely for 2yrs since factory, is worth 26k, then i'm not sure what more to tell you.

A NEW 09, base, NEW BODY STYLE...can be had for 31k, and demo'd versions of those cars, can be had for around 28-9k. Now its your responsibility to FIND these deals, people have done it, and because you haven't, dont bash others.

So with a 15second search on autotrader, i found Pohanka Acura selling two used 09 RL's (30,900.....having 250miles on it). now I'm pretty sure if you bargained with them, you can get it down to 29, being a NEW untitled can be readily bought for 31k, as clearly other posters have done so, WITh special APR rate.

So in conclusion, if you think, a car, that has sat on the lot for 2yrs, with 10k miles, having no idea how it was driven, is worth 26k, then you buy it. But i promise you, that car isn't worth 26k. Take it to carmax, another acura dealer, see how much they give you, ill bet 22k, hence i came up with 23.5k figure(the trade in value, is according to Manheim)

cman7 · July 2009

but Vchad, I'm asking you to find a certified preowned 08 non-nav with 10k miles for $23K. This is what you stated in your first e-mail. I am holding you to that ($500 finder fee).

Thank You

I did not want an 09. Do not like the exterior.

cman7 · July 2009

This is going to be easy money for you VChad. The same Aura dealer(Pohanka) has the 08 TL that I am looking, advertised for $31K(same as the 09TL). Granted it has twice the miles I am looking for. . I want that car for $23K, as you stated. If you can negotiate it too $23K, you will be the great deal maker ( and $500 richer). Remember you stated $23k......

Thanks in advance VCHAD

seif · July 2009

VChad - thanks for your extended version reply. it was much more informative than the glib few lines in the earlier posts. i can now understand your reasoning for coming to this conclusion. i still don't know if it works that way and if the cars we are looking for can actually be had at that price but at least you explained how you came to it.

i am buying a 2006 MDX off my lease this Friday. it is a base model with 20K miles on it. the dealer has told me that they will make it a CPO for $500 as well. my payoff price is just under $23K. i have been told that this is non-negotiable but does anyone know if this is written in stone or is there anything i can do to get that price down?

i am also looking to buy an '06-'08 CPO TL. where are you getting that number for what honda finance sells back off-lease cars for? is that documented somewhere? that seems like an excellent bullet to have in the chamber when negotiating for the car. where can i get it?

vchad · July 2009

Seif, im glad you atleast had a rational response.

I know what you mean tho, its is really TOUGH to find a dealer to budge, but it can be done, I am living proof. The TL is an excellent car but personally i believe a bad choice for used...as in, it holds its value too much(even with age/mileage), according to a dealership, but they will ding you when you go to trade in. They can get away with it, especially in the TL cause people keep buying them at or close to there selling CPO'd price. (but i refused to pay that much, and did some research)

Now with the MDX, i actually only found out about the lease turn in trick, through THIS FORUM! A while back i was reading the mdx forums(last yr), and he mentioned he turned in his mdx off lease to dealer, his NON-negotiable price from Honda Financial was I believe 23k approx. Honda financial, gives the dealer an opportunity to buy the lease turned in mdx, before its sold in Acuras closed auctions(for dealers only), then shipped off to public auctions(like manheim etc.)

If i remember correctly, he paid approx 17-18?(not sure but i know its in that range) THIS IS what caused me to call around. I have been a lifelong Mercedes benz owner, and I bought a TL randomly and loved it. I kindly approached the Acura dealership, I nicely asked if they would do this, and to my surprise, they said YES! I was so appreciate of them doing it.

So what im trying to say is, IT IS POSSIBLE. but it takes effort.
-acura lease buyout is NON-negiotable to YOU
-acura lease purchase is GIVEN at a DISCOUNTED rate to dealer(it is a fact)

I know your dealer says it says in stone, but its NOT TRUE. he knows you have no way of bargaining, so he has no need to "hook you up". He's going to easily sell it to you making profit, doing no work. I know this is common practice, because my BENZ dealer has done the same for me, but ive been a loyal customer to them for years.

I check these forums to help people, as others had helped me. I am not some evil person putting false information to mislead others, I am a busy doctor, but I love cars, and I love helping others get good/fair deals. If you have any more questions, send me a message.

vchad · July 2009

What I dont understand is, if the same dealer is selling an 09, for the same price of 08, doesn't that tell you something is off?

My reasoning, in suggesting 23.5k for the car, was based on how much a NEW 08, untitled could be bought for. Id hate to see you(tho your comments dont exactly make me want to even respond) spend so much. Just because a dealer advertises it for so much, doesn't mean its worth that.

A brand new 09 Lexus Rx350, before the new 10 body style came out, was selling for 10k below sticker, a base rx, could be had for 31k(check the forums) as hundreds bought at this price. Now those same dealers, are selling used base 09 rx350's for 35-37k with 20k+ miles. I laugh everytime i see those ad postings. Yet people keep buying them at that price, because they are not educated enough of on the deals that were going on.

Like the rx, TL is same scenario. If a new one could of been had for 27k end of 08, why pay 26k for a used one?!! I dont need your 500, and im not interested in helping you find it. this is a Forum, for others to share there opinions and wisdom, if you find it unacceptable, move on.

cman7 · July 2009

vCHAD

Allow me to adopt a different tone, and apologize.You may have set the tone when you used the word sucker.

It has been a couple of months since I began my search for a CPO Acura TL. I am one that thinks it is my duty to research correct pricing on anything I purchase.

I priced out the year, and trim TL everywhere from Edmonds,Consumer Report, Autotrader,KBB, and many other used car pricing publications. I have even considered private party purchases. All have put me int the $26K to 30K range. The key to my search was a sub 10k miles TL. After all my searching , I was able to get this dealer down to $26K, from the typical asking price of 30K. Believe me, I have been in contact with all Acura dealers within 300 miles of my home. Even in different states. I even cross checked dealers to see if I could get them down below 27.5K. They would not budge.

A quick check of Autotrader will verify the going rate for the TL in question. I did not want to chance of private party purchase for the obvious reasons.

I agree we would be able to find a TL below the $26K target that is in question,but I live in the Atlanta metro area. I would not want to travel 600 to 800 miles to find that one dealer with a sub $26k TL. We are all aware of what can happen between a phone agreement, and actually walking into the lot.

My point in total is that based on my extensive research this was the lowest price I found,in addition to the fact that they are within 100 miles of my home.

Yes you are correct the TL is at the top of the list in autos that hold it's value.

I did not want a 2009 TL for aesthetic reasons, in addition to the fact that it may never be a good idea to by the first year of a new model.

What would be your bottom line for the auto in question ? I humbly ask you that question.

I was being pugnacious when I suggested that you find a TL for me. I am very capable of finding my own car, at the right price. Though I am open to any input minus the the name calling.

23109vc · July 2009

Vchad is 100% right.

The Acura dealers are trying to sell the used 07s and 08s for MORE than they sold for when NEW!!! It's insane. I went to my local Acura dealer, they had a gorgeious 2008 TL Type S. 11k miles. it looked like it was new - but it's NOT. it's used. the car sold NEW for $32k. I almost bought oe of these new back in late 08 - adn I had multiple written offers from so cal dealers -= Cerritos AND Tustin, and Keyes - all willing to sell me a BRAND NEW 2008 TL Tpe S for $31,500 + TTL. Yes. a LOT of people got them at this price. read this site, or Acurazine.

now, I see Tustin Acura selling two 08 Type S - and they are asking $34k. the car is NOT worth that much. but you know what - some stupid sucker might give it to them. so when I offer them 27k which is what i think is fair, they laugh.

i showed them my written offer to buy it new in 08 for $32k. they said there were "incentives" back then, they don't have now. so I guess the car has magically gone UP in value over the last year and a half!! amazing!! i should have bought a fleet of them as an investment!! ha ha ha. the new car market must suck and these guys are now raping people on the used cars?

i've also noticed pricing in CA is way higher than in other states... same car?!? but cost of living in CA is higher, so they just jack up the prices b/c they assme there are more people earning more money...

My local dealer also has a CPO 2008 TL base w/navi. they want $28999 for it. OMFG!! that car sold NEW for $29k. amazing how now that it has 26k miles on it, it's only depreciated a $1000!!

our problem is that the average consumer just sees the price on the sticker, negotiates from there, thinks they got agood deal and the dealer rapes them. if I go in there, armed iwth all the info, and offer them a REAL price - they know that they can reject it, and they might find some sucker to pay $5000 more the next day..hence they pass teh offer up..

so in some ways are we both right?? the car shouldn't be worht these nutty prices they are asking.. BUT if people will pay that much - then doens't that mean it is worth that...if you assume that a car is worth what it can be sold for???

maye I should have bought that 2008 TL type S for $32k last year...if I had, I'd have equity!!!

hahahahaha

vchad · July 2009

cman7, let me apologize as well, i should have used my wording more carefully. i totally believe you, and your absolutely RIGHT. That TL is a great car, and holds its value very very well, even with mileage etc.

The frustrating part is, this is what bothers me, but its not much we can do, these dealers have the upper-hand on used Acuras because they get it at a discounted rate, and are unwilling to budge on there largely marked up price, knowing, someone WILL pay that price. it seems you've done your work, and thats a very important thing.

I was practically pulling my hairout convincing my sister-in-law to buy the new 08 TL at that price of 27.5k, even tho, a USED 07 TL base being advertised on the same dealer lot for 29,999(it sat on there lot for 7 months, before they sold it, guess what price, 28.5(i knew my salesman personally, patient of mine, and shared it with me)). I was telling her, your getting a tremendous value, then she finally saw the light, and bought it.

Now with respect to your car, I believe you said its at a non-acura store, been sitting there for some time. I know the new body style isn't impressing you much. Financially, 08 used one, still bothers me they want 26k for it. But in all my years of buying, I bought cars for the joy(but also tried, to make wise financial decisions), but sometimes it is what it is, and if you want it, circumstances/market dictate price.

I sincerely still feel, you should suggest to them, "hey a new 08 end of year was selling for 27k, this is used, has 10k miles on it, how about we compromise?" Id suggest maybe 10% reduction compared to 08 should be a minimum. Personally for me bottom line, id go make $24.5k, maybe letting them know, you'll invest in a 1k acura warranty on your own, really making the purchase price 25.5, which seems close to there final agreement with you.

in the end, buy what makes you happy, and economicaly wise for you.

vchad · July 2009

Thank you 23109vc, i appreciate you sharing your insigh as well. I quickly recognized your username, i'm vinodc on acurazine. your obviously active poster on acurazine.

I'm glad you share my frustration with these used TL's, when such bargains were had last summer. We should have bought a fleet last yr like you said!! there is a dealer in michigan(roseville acura), tried selling me, get this, a new 07 type s, 2008 december, for 3k off sticker. I laughed so hard. he said "doc, we'd be losing money, i need to get owners approval for anymoer"....i knew right then and there, no business for him. When NEW 08 s-types were selling for 6k less sticker.

I hope people can really research thorougly armed with evidence, before they step foot in dealers, please dont get taken advantage of. I'm all for a FAIR/GOOD deal, both sides should compromise.

cman7 · July 2009

Thanks for your input VCHAd. I will work of your 24.5-25k number. Wish me luck.

Yes they are a non-Acura dealer, but it was Acura certified three months ago at thier Acura dealership, which is part of the same owner group. I beleive it sat on the Acura lot,which had low traffic due to the depressed economy in that area of Georgia. I did go over the Carfax carefully. I even asked to see the paperwork for the Acura certification that was done. Everything looked good, in addition to the car driving great.

In any event, I am close to your number, so I will give it my best shot.

In the end you said it best. " You want what you want ". Just temper it with good economical sense.

Thanks Again.

prchohan · July 2009

Hi, I am buying my first new car and just came to know of this forum. I am planning to buy a 2009 TL w/ tech package in Hoffman Estates, IL area. A neighboring Acura dealership has an Internet price of $35,600 (plus TTL I'd imagine?). So first of all, how does this Internet price work? Does it mean no negotiation? Given that there is a total of $2000 manufacturer to dealer cash back incentive and $35,556 invoice, I really want to start somewhere between $32K-33K with the dealer. Does this make sense or am I being unrealistically low? Also, I assume TTL doesn't include the dealer fee and destination charge. Is that correct? When I make an offer, how do I start? Do I give out the OTD price or the price plus TTL (plus any applicable fees)? Will really appreciate if someone can guide me thru this.

kingpcgeek · July 2009

The Internet price means jack squat, its marketing BS

prchohan · July 2009

Thanks kingpcgeek. So what's the good price to start? Anyone?

vchad · July 2009

prchohan,

first off, the best thing really is, scroll back about 8-9 pages and read all the experiences people have had with the TL, you'll get a sense of what people think is a fair price, and have actually ended up paying.

On that note, you should check, what kind of vehicle is being advertised, as always, who cares what they advertise, you offer what you think is fair, dont be intimated, dont let them force you into a deal. Were all here to help you, go shop around, do ur homework, make a fair offer, and if your unsure if its a good deal, ask the people on this forum, tons of helpful people here.

Being in chicago area, I have a place out on lakeshore, and even tho i bought my acura in MI, im familiar with acura dealers, like Mcgrath, etc. etc. being your from chicago, id suggest going with Sh-awd. But fwd is just a good car, but sh-awd might be a better choice. Figure out if you want the tech, awd vs. fwd and go from there. i'm not sure of the current TL promotions(not currently active in the market, but im getting car bug to replace my TL, hence i keep an eye out for good deals)

dont quote me, look in previous posts, i think Base fwd can be had for around 31. Probably Tech fwd maybe 33, and sh-awd tech, is about 37ish.

23109vc · July 2009

hey vinodoc! yeah, i posted a ton on acurazine...themods got after me for starting so many thread comparing the TL to other cars....

I think your prices on the new TL are right. I have to say the new TL is growing on me. We took our MDX in for service today and they gave us a new 09 TL w/tech as a loander. we had it overnight and took it out tonight for a drive with the kids. We fit all three kids in the back - 7, 3, 2. the little guy is in a carseat, and the next youngest is in a booster - all fit easily across the back.

may want to look into a lease on these things.

what is the best deal you have all seen on these???

the dealers selling used 08s are on crack. it almost seem like it is cheaper/smarter to just lease a newer one instead of buying a used one - especially if the dealers are trying to rape us all on the used one.

my closest local dealer has a nice looking CPO 08 base w/nav. I took it for a quick test drive today when I dropped off hte MDX. they are asking almost $29k for it. it has 26k miles on it! these things old new for like $29 to $30k at the end of 08. now the car only depreciated a grand??? BS! I could go in and make an offer, but I'd be offering htem like 24-25k MAX and even that seems kinda high to me...but even if I offered htem 25k, I'll bet you they say NO. I'd feel okay paying 23-24k. at that price, the money I'd save would justify buying an "older" model car....

but at 28k... forget that. i'd rather have the new car and just lease it. in the long run, if i buya CPO car and keep it long term - like 6-8 years, it's cheaper to buy/drive the 08..pay it off and drive it into the ground....but you wind up becoming off the warranty, and if you findance 60-72 months, you end up still making car payments when hte warranty is up, and then you paying to repair the car and still making car payments...not good. at least on a lease, you never worry about ANY repairs. just minour routine maintenance.... no brakes, maybe a set of tires when you turn it in? you make a paymenet and rive the car..

now if you buy...you can sell the car at the very end..but c;mon, what'sa n 08 TL gonna be worth in 8 years when you've put 100k miles on it and it's now 9-10 MY old... maybe $5k... which is probalby what you'll spend on tires, brakes, oil changes, timing belts, and the other crap that you fix along the way from when you buy it at say 15-25k miles to 100-125k miles.... so it's a wash...

i had fun driving the new TL tonight. it's pretty fast. it doesn't have a huge VTEC kick, but it jus tpulls an dpulls and pulls. not V8 fast...but it's fast enough. it blows my MDX away and seemed about as fast as the 08 Type S I just test drove. the FWD model I had is no sports car, but honeslty, for a DD to just do errands in and to cruise on the freeway, it was plenty decent around turns and the ride is just firm enough but not bumpy and very smooth. the Type S is nice and sporty, but honeslty, on long trips you'll get sick of it... i mean if you like sports cars and the Type S is all you have, it's fun. but if you do it right, you have one car for cruising and one for the twisties. I've got an old boxster that has upgrade suspenion and low profile 18s...that car is twice as stiff as a Type S and woudl run circles around one on any track, twisty roads, etc... but it's not that comfy for a long trip. for a "one car jack of al ltrades" the Thype S is sweet. i'll be thte SH-AWD is similar in that regard. but for REALLY having fun on twisties..you need a real sports car or roadster.. Boxster, Cayman, S2000, 370Z, etc etc...

maybe there will be a new TL in my future.

whne it first came out I hated it. i though it was the fugliest thing on the road. it's growing on me. tonight, tucked in my garage - it actuallyh looked cool.

the one i have is WDP. really good color - at leat in my opinion... oh..tonight when I got to my destination - ther was a WDP TL-S parked like 10 spots away from me..soI couldn't see them 'side by side' b ut I did ge ta chnace to really look at them closely w/in seconds of each other... gotta say the Type S is a sharp looking car, bu tafter you see the new TL, it makes hte Type S and 07-08 TL's look dated...

in a couple years...the 3G TL will look old OLD OLD and the new TL will turn heads and be "accepted" as a modern cutting edge style...my wife told me the same thing when it first came out and she was right. the new TL is growing on people and in the end, it will be considered a good looking car. beak and all.

vchad · July 2009

hey 23109vc,

took me a while to read all that! Yeah it seems your just as frustrated how these acura dealers are pricing these 08 models, compared to what they sold for new. I mean, it actually makes me furious, and when you seriously call them out on it, they know your well informed, and they laugh at you/mock you, then tell you no way...knowing some innocent people come in, and buy it at a drastic markup.

true story, i was at a acura dealer, last yr, getting my oil change done, and there was a young gentleman, super nice guy, and the salesman comes to him saying..."manager wants to move some cars, ill take 500 off the sticker!!" he was like oh is that the best you can do?, salesman says yes...he goes, ok ill take it! i felt horrible for this kid, I very politely pulled him aside, and said, i dont want to meddle, but there is a 3k rebate alone, you should be getting this car for atleast 5k off! he was shocked, and i told him about edmunds, acurazine, he was absolutely clueless that such sites existed.

I realized there really are so many people out there, that just dont know about rebates/websites etc. Needless to say, he left the dealer, after he confronted the salesman about it, salesman DENIED such rebates existing, I pulled out my phone, showed edmunds website on it....salesman turned red, manager walked away........well i'm prolly not welcome at that dealer ever again!! (another couple was outside looking at the TL as i was leaving, i told them, pay 6k off sticker, they too had no clue on sale...i only wonder what happened to them!

As for the new TL's....i honestly dont know of the best deals, but i think ive seen people mention lease rates around high 400's. I think trying to get a used TL at a bargain is tough, knowing the dealer tactics. TL is one car, id buy/lease new.....buy an extended warranty....run it to the ground, or sell it privately on my own once i get sick of it.

i know what you mean about porsche, ive been a lifelong benz owner, wanted to get the SL550 last summer, but with the update they did, dealer only would take 3k off, and i Didn't want the 08 at a bargain rate, just looked age with the older face and interior. So i treated myself to a Porsche 911 carrera cabriolet....msrp 100k, i bought it for 77k. TOO good to pass up! porsche dealer was so desperate to get rid of it, brand new, with 12miles on it. i have to say, after the porsche, every car seems to drive like a boat.

mel88hrman · July 2009

Thank you! Enough already.

robertw477 · July 2009

I actually like the beak. Most people I have shown the car tell me they love the beak so go figure. However the last body style on the TL personally I think has a pretty bland look and I dont care for it all all. I am not a car expert but I liked my 03 TL body style much better than the 08 style. I like the 09 best of all. It is a bold look definitely and it feels really good to the ride. I thought the BMW 328I was a much lesser car for a much higher cost.

Rob

23109vc · July 2009

vchad-

yeah, exactly. i have given some dealers and same story - I tell thema bout my car search from last year, tell them the quotes I rec'd, then ask how they can ask so much for it used. the usual statement is that there were "incentives" back then that they don't have now and that they are "too deep into" these new ones...blah blah..so they basically claim that they sold them cheap, but had to buy them back at a high price... it's all BS if you ask me.

they just know that there are dumb buyers who will pay what they want and they can take advantage of them.

i'm torn between just leasing or buying used. I had kind of wanted to grab a used 08. this is going to be our second household car - i'll use it to DD to work, and we will use it as backup to our MDX. i was planning on buying one with super low miles, like 10-15k and then jus thang onto it until it's paid off and then some.

but if they are asking so much for them, it makes less and less sense to buy a used one. buying a used TL CPO for $28k seems like less of a good deal than if it was 23-24k.... when you crunch out the numbers.... leasing vs buying...the lease can actually come out bettter.

i' taking into account that on the purchase, I'll hae the car for say 6-7 years..and I figure in what I willlikely have to spend to maintain / upkeep the car and also I have tried to calculate a reasonalbe net value once the car is paid off and I want to sell it - to take into consideration that I can recoup money by selling it.

figure you buy a CPO 08 TL base w/nav and get them down to $27k. that might be doable. sounds like a high price to me, ,but let's say I buy that. say I put down $5000 and finance the rest for 60 months. loan calcs say that I pay $470/month for the next 60 months to buy this TL. total payments, incuding my $5k down = I'm spending roughly $33,000 total.

but then if you figure i drive it 10-15k/year...at the end of my 5 year loan, I've added 50-75k on it. so if it had 15k when I buy it, ,then the car has 65k - 80k when paid off. so it should run easily another 2-3 years trouble free??

so I get 2-3 years of no payments, but do have to do repairs. i'm guessing there will be at least one brake job in there, timing belt toward the 100k point, couple sets of tires, and othe rmisc little "problems' that will be non warranty items that will require repair visits...lets say for the sake of argument that all this upkeeep adds up to 3-4k over the life of ownershp..maybe 5k if i'm unlucky?

at the point when ia am totally sick of the car after driiving it for 8 years and I go to sell it, the car will be rouhgly 10 MY old...with 120k miles..i am guesstimating it will e worth maybe $5000. so you wash out the costs of upkeep by selling it..and in the end it cost me jus hte monthly payments.. which would be $33k over 8 years. if i could drive it that long. assuming I got sick of it and sold it in 6 years, i might make a couple grand more off the sale...and pocket a bit more in "net" value on the car at the end..

$33,000 / 8 yrs = $350/month. so the net overall cost of tha tcar is 350/month assuming I keep it 8 years.

$33000 / 6 years (add $2k in resale value) = $430/month.

to lease a new TL is going to be *roughly* 3000 down and 450month tax included.
so total cost over 36 months is 450x 36 +3000 = $19200 for 36 months.
to compare to the six year ownershp scenario, just double the lease and you get 6 year lease costs of 19200 x 2 = 38400. that's $533/month.

so it's still mmore expensive to lease than to buy.. by maybe 75/month.

then you factor in the intangibles, like would you raather have a new car every three years vs same one for 6 yrs... etc etc.

if i could get them to budge on the pricing of the 08 and get it closer to or udner $25k it makes the buy numbers even sweeter... i could live with an 08, but as the numbers get too close, the natural urge is to say screw it and go for the newer car if the costs are not too mjch more..

am i totally screwing my analysis up? vchad - what do you think?

robertw477 · July 2009

I am paying 476.00 per month. ZERO CAP COST (no $3000.00 down or any nonsense) TL 2009 with TECH. Try your numbers with that. Probably at year 6 or so you might be ahead of the game, it depends. If at the end of 4-5 years you trade in the car I think that you will be behind the game. Dealers lov tradeins as they work up all sorts of numbers and really screw you. If after 5-6 years you sell the car yourself, you may be ahead of the game. Try it with my numbers.

Rob

23109vc · July 2009

ok Robert..using YOUR numbers and my 8.75% tax rate...

$476/month + 8.75% tax = monthly payment of $517.65.
Over the course of 36 months, that would cost me a total of----- $18,635.

If I BUY a 2008 CPO TL w/nav or a Type S and get it for around $28000, and I finance over 72 months, at 5.5% - the total amount i pay over the life of the loan, will be about $35,760. asssuming ZERO down payment, the monthly is about $504. just baout the same as the cost of a lease of an 09 TL w/tech.

If you try to equate the 3 yr lease to the cost of a 6 yr loan, I just double the cost of the 36 months lease, as if I leased TWO cars back to back - which would be 72 months. the lease costs doubled are $37,270.

$37,270 - $35,760 = $1510.

so basically, if you only consider the costs over the first 6 years, the lease only costs an extra $1500. spread across teh 6 years, that only $251/year, or $20/month.

When the comparison is between an 08 and 09 - the $20/month is totally worth it.

Here is where the buy vs lease gets tricky. When you lease - you turn the car back in and it's gone. you have nothing left. If I buy the 08, after 72 months, I own the car and it has some value. albeit, in 72 months from now, a CPO 2008 TL will not be worth a ton, but it will be worth something, and given that I will drive about 12-15k/year, and assumign I buy a car with 15k miles on the odometer - at the end of my loan the car iwll have roughly a max of 100k miles or so. that will be in year 2015. So what will a 2008 TL with 100k miles be worth in 2015??? my guess..anywhere from $5-10k.

if you assume that in 2015, a 2008 TL will be about 8 model years old...then one big question is to assess what that car will be worth 6 years down the road, when my loan is paid off. to truly compare a lease to buy you have to factor in that at the end of the lease you won NOTHING and at the end of a purchase you OWN the car and unless you destroy the car and it implodes - that car has a net VALUE. you could then sell it and pocket tha t money, thereby reducing the cost of the purchase overall.

to get an idea what an 08 TL might be worth in 2015, the best analysis I could come up with is to look at what a 8 model year old TL is worth now in 2009 with siilar mileage... so look at a 2002 TL w/100k miles. according to cars.com, the average asking price on a car like that is $8000-9000. that's actually a lot higher than I had expected.

so if I BUY - at the end of my purchase, that used 2008 TL is supposedly going to be worth let's say $8500.

another facotr you have to consider is that on a lease you typically pay for ZERO repairs. you only pay for the upkeep/maintenance. oil changes and stuff. maybe you might have to do brake pads or a set of tires..but you basically escape from the lease w/out havig to fix anything. the car is under warranty the entire time you have it, and you only pay for consumables that you would have to pay for on any car..new or used. they all use gas, tires, oil, brakes..so those costs are consistent regardless of whether you buy or lease.

BUT, if you buy a CPO used car with 15k on it, and then you drive it up to 100k, you are probably going to have to fix something. the CPO warranty will run out on most stuff at about 62k miles. you have a powertrain up to 100k..so the big big ticket stuff like motor/tranny is covered. but figure you have the same brakes, tires, and then maye you get something like a leaky radiator, or a button that breaks, or a water pump that fails, or a some computer sensor that goes out... that stuff might not be under warranty, and from 62k - 100k you foot the bill for that stuff. those are costs the guy who is leasing never pays.

so another big question, factor to estimate is what will it cost for THAT stuff on teh purchase? hard to say. in general, i would expect those coss to be fairly low as the TL is a pretty reliable car, and since the big big ticket stuff is covered under a CPO warranty, i wouldn't get hit with a tranny rebuilt or blown motor...only the smaller stuff. assumign you don't have a lemon....you might have say... $1000-3000 max in these costs over the life of the loan. this is not including oil changes, tires, brakes..i'm thiking of actual repair visits where you have ot fix something that isn't a warranty item..a water pump, an alternator...crap like that. i honestly think the 3000 figure is kind of high...lets say $2000 as a guesstimate.

So leasing has total costs of $37270. (TWO 36 month leases back to back)

purchase a CPO 2008. total finance costs over 72mo = $37,270. assume an extra $2500 in long term upkeep, but a "residual value" at the end of myloan of about $8500. So $37,270 + $2500 - $8500 = $31,270.

so assumig you paid the car off and once it wqs paid off you sold it, and pocketed the money, and assumig my figures are right, your net monthly car costs average out to :

lease - $517
purchase - $434.

difference of $82/month. the million dollar question si whether it is worth an extra $82 a month, to always have a car that is never mor ethan a few years old, under warranty, and new. you'd pay more, but you'd get to go through TWO newer cars, instead of driving one "old" car the whole time. depends on how much you like cars.

so you can see that really, buying a clean CPO car, and even with normal maintenance, should overall cost less in the long run, as the car has a net value at the end that actually reduces your effective "cost".

BUT, that $8500 "equity" isn't cash..it's tied up in the car..so if you never sell it you don't see that money. i gues the alternative is that you DON'T sell it, and then for the next THREE years you DRIVe it for free, and only incur another $2500-3000 in costs to repair it. so if you go out to 9 years...then you have a whopping $1000/year in costs. while the guy leasing has to incur yet another huge set of costs to lease yet another car..

so over 9 years.. the leasing guy pays $55,905 over 9 years.
the guy who buys pays $42,770.... the savings start to accelerate the longer you keep/drive the old paid off car.

now here is the real questio - do you REALLY want to drive that 2008 CPO TL for the next NINE years. hell no. there are other intantigl efactors you cant' put a dollar value on. how about the peace of mind of havin ga brand new car that will not break down and leave you stranded? how about the fun of havin ga new car? newer technology? new/updated safety items? these factors all could be reduced to some dollar figure...but it's very subjective.

some people who are NTO car people, honestly could care less about how they get from point A to B and the buy it an dkeep it 10 years works for them b/c it's the cheapest possible way to do it. in fact, they dont drive a TL, they drive a basic 4 cyl accord iwth cloth and no nav.

if you purely look at the short term costs - over 36 months...

Assuming ZERO d

23109vc · July 2009

i really wrote a long thred..so long it deleted some of my post!!

sorry guys. i got carried away..

bottom line - i think leasing a new 09 is a smarter move than buying a used CPO 08.

unelss the dealers really reduce what they are asking for on teh 08s... right now, most dealers are asking and won't budge of asking for about $27-28k for a CPO 08 base w/nav. at that price, it makes more sense to lease a new 09.

as the price goes down and the spread between new/used increases..the CPO might be a better move..but in the short term - 36-60 months out, leasing is the way to go.

robertw477 · July 2009

I think it is interesting to anayze. I think the CPO stuff is purely marketing BS. Now if you found a private party with a sharp price on the car used that might be a different story. I never in my life bought a used car from a dealer. I feel that on used cars the deals are in the private sale market. The dealers fleece many customers in trade ins and then want to sell those used cars at the highest profits. Right now they might make more on some of the used cars over th new cars.

good luck
Rob

23109vc · July 2009

Robert-

I think you're right in that the CPO cars are not necessarily any better than a private party car...in terms of quality. I'm sure some CPO cars are trashed and some are pristine. I've seen some that looked and drove as if they were actually new, and others that were clean...but n ot *that* clean... if you know what I mean.

the one thing you do get from CPO is the extension of the warranty. you get another year and 12k on top of the existing factory warranty, and they extend the powertrain warranty from 6 yr / 70k to 7yr, 100k.

so you get a little bit more in terms of warranty. if you found a used 08 with low miles, you'd have as much or more warranty coverage as the new car...

you are right about the dealers trying to jack up the used car prices. i almost wonder if b/c the market is so depressed,they are trying to make bigger profits on teh used cars...the new cars pricing is harder to manipulate wiht so many people hitting the web and verifying the cash back incentives, invoice pricing, etc... butg on a used car, you never know how cheap they really got it for...so they could be really j acking up the price and you'll never know...

I do know what the 08s sold for in the end of 08. the base w/nav sold for about $29-30k and the TL-S sold for $31,500-32000. i see used 08s with 10-20k miles and the asking price is $34k....nuts. they always give me the same line..in 2008 there were incentivs, now we don't have those... i try to counter with "yeah, but once the cars start selling NEW for $32k, incentives or NOT, the price has come down. whenever a dealer puts cash on the car, it lowers the price/value b/c someoen else bought it for less". they just repear the incentives thing... one guy actually told me they have become liek collectors items and have gone UP in value...yeah...SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE.... the TL-S is a collector car!!! ha!

tough decision on what to do. buy used or go lease new. each has it's pros/cons.

thansk for all the feedback Robert. how you likin' that new TL???

did you ever consider going for the AWD model?

cman7 · July 2009

The issue with private parties, is that they are asking $28K also (check out Auto trader) for 08 non-nav TL's.

23109vc · July 2009

yeah it's nuts. the ask prices on used 08 TLs is high.

i wonder if with the economy going down, people are buying used cars instead of buying/leasing new ones? so the dealers and private parties can ask more?

or is it that th eTL just holds it's value too well???

seif · July 2009

went in with intention of going CPO TL but i decided to check out the lease on '09 TL.
non nav model price of $32,895.

10k miles per year
$428/month (NJ taxes rolled in)
$2100 out of pocket.

i told them i had to check with a leasing company i have used and they said to let them have another shot if he can beat that so they can probably do a little better. what do you guys think of that deal?

prchohan · July 2009

Hi forum members, I am planning on getting an Acura TL 2009 (Grigio Metallic) with Parchment interior. I am a little concerned after the test drive about the interior color. It looks a little lighter than I thought. The test drive model had a few spots (maybe from rough use) but since I absolutely want mine to be clean, can someone share their experience? How does it look? Is it easy to get dirt spots and scratches on (more than let's say Ebony interior)? How easy or difficult is it to clean the spots?

Finally what about the Ebony interior? I may get that one if Parchment experience is not great but it's not my first preference (have an Accord with black interior). How does it look with Grigio Metallic?

Will appreciate any feedback I can get.

Thanks.

Chasboy · July 2009

If you are getting the AWD, the black interior is kinda neat with contrasting stitching. I was almost going to get the parchment, but the fact that the lower half and carpeting is that color put me off. I've never seen an interior in the beige/tan family that did not get dirty. I have no idea why, but that's been my observation over 40 years of car ownership. Our white TL has the taupe interior, but because the bottom half is black, there are no scuff marks, etc.

dreddiet · July 2009

msrp 39500
selling price 33500
Cash due at signing 1039 (1st month, reg, fees)
436 + tax month = 470 in so cal
36months
10k year
shopped around for about 1 week. all the dealers in so cal were pretty much willing to do the deal.

joe767 · July 2009

I got my TL SH-AWD w/ Tech on July 2, 2009. I got the red pearl/Ebony interior. I'm loving this car way too much. I dream about it when I'm not in the car. I usually do about 75% highway and the rest in town. I'm finally learning and adjusting my driving and getting 19/26mpg's highway. The ebony interior for me is great, nice white stitching and it doesn't show too much dirt. Tech stuff was overwhelming in the beginning but I'm finally getting use to all the nice stuff.
MSRP 43008
purchase 37880
After extended warranty to 100K, prepaid maintenance plan and tire/wheel warranty I put down 10K and financed 34K at 3.9% for 4 yrs. Lehigh Valley Acura.

Good Luck

prchohan · July 2009

Thanks guys. I am going to the dealership again today. Hopefully Parchment should be good. I really don't want to get Ebony unless everyone tells me Parchment really gets dirty quick.

billyperks2 · July 2009

The AWD does not come in Parchment only Ebony, Umber and Taupe. Personally, I think the Taupe is way too light and that could spell disaster for someone with small children.

robertw477 · July 2009

How did you adjust your driving? You mean to get better mileage?

Rob

Chasboy · July 2009

The taupe is not as dirt prone as parchment. I've had a variety of interior colors and parchment/tan gets dirty the fastest and the worst. Taupe/grey, for whatever reason does not show dirt as easily as tan. Even the ES350 demo we drove in tan was already scuffed.

billyperks2 · July 2009

I have had the Parchment in my 1999 Mazda Millennia and my 2003 TLS with zero problems.I am not knocking the Taupe but there is a Demo on the Dealers Lot for sale right now and it looks pretty beat up.I have two small children and I let them know that there is no eating in Daddy's car.

mikemartin · July 2009

TTAC article on TL inventory (this is a very bad seller for Acura, with an equally bad review from TTAC):

Dochertys comparison to the Acura TL is, shall we say, invidious. The TL is a dog, with a 100-day supply on the ground.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-plans-to-over-supply-new-buick-lacrosse/

Review of TL (one out of five stars):

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/review-2009-acura-tl-sh-awd/

10sfan · July 2009

I agree that the taupe is easier to keep clean. Am also comparing the TL to the ES 350, to replace an old RL. Want to consider the TSX for mileage purposes but lease prices went up substantially in the past two weeks and the ride is very stiff. Sound like your leaning toward the TL?

billyperks2 · July 2009

This means nothing to me more than some bald headed writer sipping his coffee(caffenated) trying to make a name for himself.

2013 and earlier-Acura TL Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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