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Honda Accord vs Acura TSX
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Comments
I have the 6-speed in the 2005 Accord Coupe EX V6 w/NAV and it is awesome! The new sedan 6-speed will be the same.
All V6 Hondas (AT or MT) are much, much faster straight line than the TSX
The 6-speed version usually adds a couple of more little features over the A/T versions , I doubt that you will ever see it in anything but an EX V6. I do not belive Honda will put it in the LX model in the future.
See if you can test drive one on a demo.
YMMV,
MidCow
I was right there with you until here...
Yes, AT to AT and MT to MT, the above statement is true. However, the Accord V-6 with AT weighs 200 lbs more than a TSX with 6MT. I believe most performance testing has shown them to be within a couple 10ths to 60 MPH and in the 1/4 mile.
Since 90% (my guess) of Accords on the road have AT, a TSX with 6MT will likely surprise a great many V-6 drivers at a stop light (yes, I speak from experience). I never pulled ahead, but I caused some surprised looks on more than a few TL and G35 drivers during my 2 years of 6MT TSX ownership - it's a quick car.
You're probably right, though if demand for the manual is generally high enough, there might be a slim chance Honda would do this in some sort of limited availability LX. Several months after I bought my '96 4-cyl LX, Honda came out with a spiffed-up LX with leather, alloy wheels, and several other appearance goodies briefly. It was only about $1,000.00 more - not a bad deal for someone wanting a leathered-up "EX junior" and willing to settle for the base, non-VTEC motor in LXs at the time.
Thanks for the insight. I guess in a lot of ways, it always comes down to the test drive.
How's the back seat (for adults) in your coupe?
I hear Honda's manual trannies aresweet!
YMMV?
- Greg
Actually the back seats not bad, I can fit back there 6 ft 200+.
The was some discussion about the Accord V6 perfomance compared to TSX I4. Remember the accord V6 is 244 hp compared to 200 for the TSX abiet about 200 lbs heavier.
I had a 98 M3 5-speed and the 6-speed Accord is very close in perfromance, much faster than 215hp 5-speed IS300.
When I test drove TSX and Accord ayear or so back, the Accord even the automatic felt faster than the TSX. I agree the 6-speed TSX is faster than the auto TSX but even so it is proably a second faster than the manual TSX.
My estimates:(0-60 times in seconds) from auto consumer guide*
6-speed Accord V6 : 5.9 (from MT and C&D)
auto Accord V6 : 7.0*
6-speed TSX I4 : 7.9* ( same as the 5-speed man 4 cyl Accord)
auto TSX I4 : 8.4 est.
YMMV,
MidCow
And yes the 6-speed Honda transmisison is sweet. Of course the TSX 6-speed is sweet also!
Best published time I've seen for the manual TSX was 15.7 for 1/4 mile. V6 6sp Accord coupes have published times in the mid-14s. AT to AT, the V6 Accord should be almost 1 sec faster in the 1/4. I think the extra torque of the V6 will make it feel a lot faster also unless one is keeping the revs up in the TSX.
Not to say that the TSX isn't perfectly fine for 90% of our daily driving needs and would probably be more fun in the twisties, but 40hp can more than overcome the extra 200 lbs the Accord carries..
TSX 6-speed: 0-60 in 7.2 secs, 1/4 mile in 15.6 secs
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=6742&page_number=2
Accord V-6 AT: 0-60 in 7.0 secs, 1/4 mile in 15.5 secs. (isn't it amazing how much performance 200 lbs and a torque converter rob from a car?)
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=2488&page_number=2
I think it's great that you can get the Accord V-6 sedan with the MT now. With the MT and it's new-found good looks, I can definitely see it stealing some TSX and TL sales. Unfortunately, I see it mainly stealing Accord V-6 Coupe sales.
My mistake. Of course, if I site the MT data, the picture is quite different. They got only 16.0 for the TSX manual and an incredible 14.9 for the Accord V6 AT. MT numbers aside (I think they must have had a slow TSX and an incredibly fast Accord), I will concede that in flat out, straight line acceleration, they aren't much different.
For the majority of the buyers who will go with the AT, the punch of the V6 is hard to beat. I was underwhelmed during my TSX AT test drive when I floored it going about 40, yet again I'll concede that the need for fast acceleration at 40+ doesn't occur all that often for a lot of people (myself included.)
It will be interesting to see how many manual V6 Accord sedans get sold. I'm betting not too many.
Yup, me too. The torque converter sucks the life out of the TSX.
Honda showed a stunning concept, called the Sports 4, that supposedly hints at the direction of the next-generation Accord, coming to market in the next couple of years. The concept features sportier styling than the current Accord. The concept is equipped with the SH-AWD technology, introduced last year on the Acura flagship RL, suggesting the next Accord (and subsequent Acura TL based on the Accord) will have more spirited driving performance to match its look.
you can find photos via web search
I have test driven the '04 TSX auto and was quite underwhelmed with the acceleration, given the 200hp rating. However, this was with 4 people aboard and the a/c on. Compared with the '05 Accord 4-cyl 5spd, which I've also driven, it was too similar, if not slower, in pickup. "Where are the extra 40 horses?" I thought. It seems they all live north of 5000rpm. Granted, I drive a Camry V6 manual on a daily basis and am accustomed to good midrange torque.
I recently drove the '05 Accord V6 6spd coupe and also the '06 sedan 6spd and they are very similar in feel. In choosing between them, I personally would have to go with practicality of the 4-door. It was much quicker than either my Camry V6 or the TSX. The shifter action is short and very precise. The clutch takeup was light and easy in traffic. The handling on the TSX may be sharper, but at least on a cloverleaf coming off the highway in 3rd gear at 3000rpm, the new Accord V6 sedan acquits itself very well. It was solid in composure and did not feel stressed. I could see a lot of people thinking twice about the 6k difference to get a TL. Two things I noted: very good tire grip and lots of extra midrange punch available at just a toe touch away to pull out of the corner. The two contributing factors were that the sedan V6 MT comes with 17-inch Michelin Pilots, a step up from last year's 16-inch Energy MXV4 tires, and the V6 torque.
I can attest to the accuracy of the numbers on other postings when comparing the acceleration of the V6 Accord to the TSX. There is a significant difference in seat-of-the-pants feel.
I intend to test-drive the 6spd TSX soon, as this is what I intend to purchase, but they're hard to find in my area.
2) It's made in Japan (yeah, I prefer Japanese cars made there)
3) Has features not even offered in an Accord (Bluetooth, Xenons, MP3 imput, Memory Seats, Shiftable automatic)
4) Better, more powerful sound system.
Accord versus TSX
Accord wins
(1) much more power
(2) better mileage
(3) more room
(4) lower cost of service
(5) regular gas
(6) even V6 6-speed is a sleeper on insurance
TSX wins
(1) Handling- only slightly better than 6-speed V6
(2) Xexons
(3) memory seats
(4) longer warranty
(5)- bluetooth- but my personal opinion that using cell phone while driving is a large cuase of accidents and should be completley banned.
Equal:
(1) stereo - EX v6 6-speed I call about equal
(2) leather
(3) cost is about a push, TSX is a little higher
(4) both have Honda's relability
NA:
(1) shiftable automatic; Boo hiss the TSX is almost a decent car with a 6-speed with an automatic well ...
YOMV,
MidCow
Gas mileage: TSX auto: 22/31 Accord V6 auto: 20/29. TSX wins. Their 6 speeds are the same.
Stereo: Accord has a 6 speaker 180 watt stereo. TSX has a 8 speaker 360 watt stereo.
Thanks for the input.
Okay the mileage specs of the TSX has been raised but the people I talked too say the Accord easily makes the mileage specs, while the TSX doesn't. But with the published figures it is about a push.
Stereo power is a funny animal; It is a logrithmic scale. While it sounds far apart 6 speaker 180 watt versus 8 pseaker 360 watt. They are much closer than the implied double difference, actually only 30% better. From an audiophile standpoint both are very good stereos.
Cheers,
MidCow
P.S.- both are great cars, enjoy your TSX
Thank you and very well said! Finally someone around here with the cajones to call it like they see it.
Unfortunately, it will probably fall on deaf ears, because, here in America, we like our cars to go fast in a straight line. Period!
Sorry, the TSX has substantially better handling than the six speed Accord! I've owned and driven both. TSX = quicker steering, better steering feel and considerably sharper handling. Much more tossable. And much more fun to drive. If you disagree, then you can't see the forest for the trees.
No question about it. :shades:
Didn't you have a 2000 Accord and looked at the 2004 Accord before you got the 2004 TSX ?
johnny420, "Honda Accord Sedan" #13180, 24 Dec 2003 5:07 pm
It seems to me that you wanted a sedan. The 2000 Accord had much less tire, horswepower, handling ectera than the 7th generation.
I have a 2005 EX V6 6-speed w NAV Coupe and it handles very well. I will admit, it does not handle quite as well as the 1998 BMW M3 sedan I had, but close enough for 90% of the time.
I just love the power and it just isn't straight line! But if you had to have a sedan, I would have gotten the TL 6-speed instead, but I couldn't see it being worth $8k more.
Cruis'n in 6th :shades: ,
MidCow
P.S.- I have a more tossible "commuter car" on order, a 2006 Civic Si. But you probably don't like the handling of that car either! I also have a 5-speed 2002 IS300; you looked at the new IS250
P.S.S. I guess I am too busy looking at trees, I didn't realize I was in a forest I enjoy driviing more than just going form point A to B; its the other cars that interfere.
That's why I like the TSX!
I bet you father-in-law doesn't drive a 6-speed either LOL
double sixes,
MidCow
P.S.- I understand if you don't want to let you in-laws drive YOUR car though
I guess what I mean, long story short, is that with the Acura you pay for prestige and image. As long as I like the car, I don't care what others think.
I guess it is true...You learn something new everyday.
People I know generally opt for the TSX if they cannot afford or at least do want to pay the additional cost of the TL but want an Acura. The same peoepl normally compare the Accord and the TL, not the Accord and the TSX.
Concerning demographics, women seem to really like the looks of the TSX over the TL or RL.
However, most of the particpants on this thread are either already owners of a TSX or an Accord and you are not going to change their minds or convince them that their choice was wrong.
Both are excellent choices by the way!
So long,
MidCow
I am not trying to persuade anybody to buy a TSX over an Accord. All I am saying is that for me there were a lot of objective factors that steered me towards a TSX. In terms of the subjective stuff. "Fun" (not just a big engine) factor was a big deal for me, others less important were Exterior Looks, Interior, and Luxury feel. Both are great cars, but I think they appeal to totally different buyers.
I drive an Accord, and I honestly find the looks of the TSX be-u-tee-ful! It has an italitan butt that I really like. I couldn't pony up 27k for a car, and if I could, I'm not sure I'd pay the same for a car with a 4-cyl, and smaller interior. Both are great choices, though. THAT, we can agree on!
I tested drove both cars w/o navigation and didn't try out the bluetooth features.
Keep in mind I test drove the 2006 Accord EX V6 and 2005 Acura TSX. I believe there are number of improvement for both cars since the 2003 Accord and 2004 TSX was tested at the start of this Discussion.
TSX: When you sit inside the TSX, you feel like everything I need is here in the car. That feeling of 'oh I wish it had this or that', you just feel happy that just about everything is standard.
TSX's interior is very nice. It is lux-sporty like the Audi A4 actually I may go ahead and say a bit better.
Power, since it's a 4 banger, it'a busy engine. Power is adequate but it is as about as smooth as it gets for a 4 banger.
The handling was very good, not great but very good. Better than the Accord. When I did a quick lane change and back (like the way I do with my friend's 325), it fishtailed. Perhaps it's the tires but regardless it fishtailed. Acura Integra handles better. BMW 325 is too tight for me. When it comes to handling, I would take the 2001 Prelude any day. It may not be a fair comparison as TSX does (sit up higher) have a higher road clearance.
Since it is smaller than the Accord, very easy to change lanes, turn and park. Obviously Acura dealer will treat you better than the Accord.
Accord: When you sit inside the Accord, no surprise, all the buttons are where they should be as it's been for the past 20+ years.
Power is when Accord definitely has the edge. V6 is smooth and it gets up and go.
Good handling. Now I didn't even attempt that quick lane change that caused the fishtail in the TSX. Accord is a bigger car, so I didn't even try it. Turns and cornering was plenty enough for me to say, Accord handling is good but TSX is better. Again, 2001 Prelude . . .
Conclusion: You can't go wrong with both cars.
TSX is unique where Accords are dime a dozen with a bit better handling.
Accord holds its own with better power and roomier interior and lower price.
Gas milage (TSX) vs. insurance cost (Accord) off set each other IMO.
I personally, I like the 2006 Accord V6 EX better only because more room and bigger trunk to me is more important than the positives of the TSX.
Price is a factor too for most people. If Acura lowers the TSX price to Accord V6 EX, I there may be more TSX owners than the Accord V6 EX.
The TSX requires premium unleaded, making what tiny advantage it had in mileage all but dissappear, if not giving it to the Accord V-6. The TSX engine has similar torque figures as the 4-cylinder Accord, but the Accord's actually peaks several hundred RPM lower, giving it a slight advantage in the lower rev range (under 4k RPM). The TSX obviously out does it in power overall, though. The Accords is just slightly more flexible.
My quibble was with this statement: Handling (TSX)- only slightly better than 6-speed V6
Whether or not you own/drive a 7th gen Accord sedan or coupe, the TSX is not just "slightly better" in the handling department than either Accord. It is substantially better in stock form, for the reasons I listed above.
How can you say the 6th gen Accord has "much less" handling then the 7th gen, then turn around and say that the TSX's handling is only "slightly" better than the current Accord?
Accord (sedan with either tranny)= boring, TSX = fun-to-drive. I never made any mention of the Civic Si, nor I have I driven one. By all accounts it is excellent, and is much closer to the TSX in demeanor than the Accord.
The six speed coupe is very nice, albeit a tad homely. I shopped one and would be happy in one. Can't hang with the TSX in the tight stuff though.
johnny420, who also likes cruis'n in 6th, even though 3rd is the TSX's magic gear. :shades:
The Acura TSX and Accord EXV6 are priced right on top of each other. Both have Honda's exceptional reliability, and are "at least" fun to drive. The TSX is the playful one, and the Accord is the powerful one. On the one side, the TSX is more stylish, but the Accord counters its lack of cache with a more commodious interior (roomy, in layman speak). The TSX offers a few more features not available on Accord (HID headlights, for example), while the Honda has a broader dealer network. The TSX will be a rarer commodity on the road (a good thing), but will draw less attention for resale (pure speculation on my part). Hondas seem to draw used car buyers in like a moth to light, often selling for 20%+ over Kelley Blue Book value.
The TSX appeals to a smaller number of people, but those people may cross shop the Accord with its relative price and similar brand heritage.
I do think, however, that the demand for the TSX in the used market will be vigorous. Maybe not at the level of the Accord, but enthusiasts seeking a practical alternative to the family hauler will some out of the woodwork if they come across this car in the Auto Trader or some similar publication. Especially those seeking a stylish sedan with a sporting nature and a manual gearbox. My two cents worth.
I'm not sure I agree that the Accord regularly sells for 20% over KBB, though. The market for Accords is saturated, and it would seem to defy market economics that demand for such a readily available product would exceed supply. Again, just my two cents worth.
I have personal experience with getting well over kbb, but I'm definitely not saying that Acuras will not garner the same premium, I'm just not experienced with trading those.
Happy motoring...
thegrad
Oh speedracer, you are so baaaaad.
Haha, a lot of people feel this way about wanting to drive something outside the "norm". Nothing wrong with that, it is your dollar after all!
1. Body style. OK, so the Accord did spiff itself up a little with that lip/spoiler thingie on the trunk, but overall the car just looks ordinary -- probably just because there are just so doggone many of them on the road! No question that the most common sedan on the roads in my part of the world (Pacific NW) is the Accord followed closely by the Camry. To me the TSX looks a little sportier, a little more luxe, and definitely a little unique in the sea of Accords & Camrys. (And this is coming from someone who has driven an Accord for the past 6 years!)
2. Interior feel. The Accord's interior is better than its exterior, but the interior is not as eye-catching and inviting as the TSX's. I love the TSX's cool blue instrumentation lighting and the blue overhead penlight that shines down onto the center console in the dark. It makes me feel more stylish or hip or in my 20's or something.
3. I bought an AT and no question the TSX's sportronic AT beats the Honda's AT (which doesn't have the sport shift feature at all). This is one of the biggest pluses for me, actually; I drive an AT for practicality but in my heart I long for a MT -- the sportronic at least gives me a little taste of a MT!
4. Drive/Handling. IMO the TSX is a far better driving experience than the Accord. The TSX feels much more responsive/intuitive than the Accord. I think the Accord's seats and suspension are a tad softer but I like the firmer feeling of the TSX's seat/suspension.
5. Bluetooth, Homelink, memory driver seating (linked to the key remote -- TOO cool!), and the extra power seating for driver and front seat passenger on the TSX (OK, I know Homelink comes on the V6 but not the V4 Accord -- and the Accord doesn't have Bluetooth and the other seating functionality at all).
6. I adore my iPod and appreciate the no-cost port in the TSX (vs. the $400 iPod hookup in the Accord). I know the Honda's iPod port has more functionality but I don't think it's worth $400.
7. Acura Roadside Assistance, great peace of mind!
Other observations: I've seen a comments about the TSX having a smaller rear door and much smaller back seating area than the Accord, and while I don't dispute that, personally I don't notice it (I'm 5'2" and both the TSX and Accord's back seats are plenty spacious for me.) My husband is not super tall and he doesn't have a problem with the back seat, either. Since we have no kids or regular backseat passengers, this was a non-factor for us.
Car insurance is $9 more per month for the TSX than the Accord, which to me is not a big deal. The extra cost for premium fuel for the TSX will probably cost me no more than an extra $10 per month over a regular unleaded fueled Accord (I only put about 1,000 miles on my vehicle each month). However, for people who are very cost-conscious, these factors could make the Accord a better deal.
Dealerships in my area are willing to give much better discounts on the Accord than on the Acura. The price difference between a 4 cylinder Accord EX AT w/Navi and an Acura AT w/Navi is about $4,000. I believe with the Accord EX V6 the price difference is about $1,500 or so. I did think long and hard about this aspect of the two vehicles. I am planning to own my TSX 8 - 10 years, and when I thought of the price difference over that amount of time (less than $50 a month) it seemed truly an insignificant considering how I felt about both cars (like the Accord vs. love the TSX).
Bottom line is both the Accord and TSX are great vehicles. For me the TSX was an irresistable combination of luxury, sportiness, great functionality and uniqueness. Happy trails! :shades:
Any input is greatly appreciated...
:confuse:
See :http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=501871
With that upgrade you should have plenty of pick-up.
Driving my little ole 2.2L 4 cylinder, 237 Hp with Invidia exhaust!,
MidCow
This is great...
My concern is getting on and off the highway.. will I be able to move ... it's an important factor.. :confuse:
You mention in point number 2 that the TSX has the pinlight that shines on the console and the backlit blue gauges that make it feel more hip. The Accord has both of these features (pinlight over console w/WHITE backlit gauges). Maybe the blue was what you were stressing, I dunno. Just thought I'd mention it.
For the rest of it I generally agree, except for the interior room factor. While I'm young (18 actually), the Accord was the much better car for me for the price of gas ($2.11 right now vs $2.31 for premium in the TSX) and the much larger interior (I'm 6'4"ish).
Happy driving. You'll probably never see me since I'm one of the 400,000 or so people that will have a 2006 Accord by year's end, but mine is Graphite Pearl in EX trim!
thegrad
I ended up with a Camry SE-V6 only because in 2005, the Accord didn't have stability control. The new Camry is much more stylish and probably worth checking out too.