2013 and earlier-Subaru Forester Prices Paid and Buying Experience

ballistic · December 2003

That's what we're all waiting with bated breaths to hear. $1,200 under MSRP would be commonplace. But $1,200 under invoice for an XT would, if true, make my June $100-over-invoice, $1500-under-MSRP XT purchase look like the dumbest deal I ever made.

subearu · December 2003

sounds about right. CarsDirect in my area has 'em listed around $1250 under MSRP, about $700 over invoice. So, that should be a good general indication of the current selling price of this area.

VIP pricing (via IMBA or other Subaru partner) will get you invoice pricing no questions asked.

-Brian

mre4 · December 2003

Sorry for misinformation: I figured accessories at MSRP instead of invoice, which overstated savings $373, and I rounded up very generously at first b/c I was so happy with car, which is still awesome!!
Invoice according to Edmunds: 26084. (includes destination, perhaps that is confusion??)

mre4 · December 2003

I guess since the title is price and buying experience I should mention that the experience was very enjoyable. The car had 5 miles on it when I got in to test drive it. The sales team was professional, friendly, and easy to deal with.

shek3 · December 2003

i have a chance to buy an XS with premium package for COST minus a $250 rebate........sounds too good to be true....lets see what the real numbers are when I get there!

ateixeira · December 2003

Watch out for them adding freight or processing fees.

-juice

raybear · December 2003

Things are slow this month, you should make out. I'm quoting the $250 and half the holdback, but we have a higher than average doc fee to balance.

les9596 · December 2003

Giving back for all the help I have received while lurking here over the years: On 12/08 I purchased an 04 Forrester XS with upgraded speakers, security system, and chrome tailpipe from a pacific northwest dealer. After 3 hours in the chair, I drove it away for 22,056 +tax/license, which I *think* is about 500 under invoice (any feedback on that?)

Knowledge shared is power squared.

ateixeira · December 2003

Congrats!

There are some small regional incentives, I think up to $750, but I still think that's a good deal.

-juice

zman · December 2003

A new voice here. I'm trying to decide between the XS 5-speed and the XT 5-speed (basically an issue of gas mileage vs. performance). Am I going to find that the X does get 22/27 and the XT 18/23?

Also, I live a long way from any dealership, and I can't find a XS 5-speed to test. I trust that they are more responsive than than the sluggish automatics. True?

And why the hell did Subaru choose to make the XT 5-speed without an available moonroof? The bias to automatics is bad enough in this country without Subaru adding to it.

ateixeira · December 2003

Makes it worse when you find out that Canada gets a MT with a moonroof.

To answer your question, yes, the 5 speed is more responsive, with either tranny. More ratios and more closely spaced.

I think the XS is perfectly adequate until you drive the XT, then anything seems slow. XS owners get anywhere from 22-26 mpg on average, for the XT it's more like 18-22. So yeah, it'll cost you about 4mpg and that premium fuel by the way.

Still, it adds up to $150 per year more for gas, or $12.50 per month. What price can you put on happiness? ;-)

-juice

ballistic · December 2003

the 5 speed is more responsive, with either tranny. More ratios and more closely spaced.

5 speeds on the XS, 5 on the XT. More ratios?

Also, the XT 5-speed ratios are wider than those on the X/XS, not closer. First is the same on both (3.45). The X/XS has a 0.780 top, whereas the XT has a taller 0.738 top. Ergo, if close versus wide is defined as the span from 1st to top (as is customary), the XT gearbox is wider.

This mainly manifests itself in the very wide 78% gap between the XT's 1st and 2nd, versus the smaller (closer) 68% gap on the X/XS.

zman · December 2003

Hey, Thanks for the information. Frankly, I'm leaning towards the XT. The moonroof thing really irks me, but hey, I live only 200 miles from Canada. Maybe I can go up there and get the XT, with everything I want on it. Probably illegal. Is it?

One other thing that I can't figure out. On the Edmund's "True cost to own" feature, it says that maintenance on the XS in year 4 is expected to be $1800 (as compared to under $1000 for the XT). I like it because it helps makes my case in justifying the XT to myself. But what does it mean and is it accurate?

OK, I'm a moron. Wider gear ratios?

sep_ · December 2003

Has anyone here dealt with any of the dealers in the San Diego (CA) area? We ended up stopping by a dealership yesterday because we couldn't check their inventory online and the experience there was just awful. The sales kid refused to go below MSRP (all while telling us that he's never had a deal fall apart over price) and I'm stumped as to why I should pay that much when Cars Direct can get me an XT for substantially less.

Ideally I'd like to buy from a local dealer who has a really good service department. Any recommendations?

ballistic · December 2003

OK, I'm a moron. Wider gear ratios?

Wider ratios can either mean a larger total span separating bottom (1st) from top (5th), or can mean a wider step between one gear and the next one in sequence. Closer/narrower ratios mean the opposite.

For instance: The Forester XT shares the same ratios as the WRX. The total span between 1st and 5th is wider than on the regular Forester gearbox. Most of the increase is found between 1st and 2nd, which (on the XT and WRX) is wider than most other high-performance automotive transmissions I can think of. Most owners don't seem to mind this; I find it awkward. The XT's first gear is very low, redlining at barely over 30mph - almost unheard-of in a car with this much performance.

ateixeira · December 2003

Sorry, JB, mis-stated that. I should have said that IMO the 5 speeds are more responsive, either model, XS or XT.

As for spacing, I'd be referring to the gears you would shift to while in motion, so 2-3-4 mostly. I think those are well spaced relative to each other.

Overall I thought the clutch was smooth and shifting was a joy, at least it didn't get in the way of the engine's phenomenal performance. The auto XT I drove had a tranny that did, IMO, reduce the performance. Caveat - it was not broken in, the tranny could still learn and improve. But it hesitated, and even in-gear acceleration didn't thrust you into your seat like the manual did.

Canadian models would have KM/hour and would not be covered under warranty, so I'd pass. Subies aren't cheap there, either.

-juice

zman · December 2003

All right, I know what you mean now about the spacing in the gears; I just never had the technical lingo down. I'll look for that when I test drive.

Yeah, the Canadian option wasn't all that realistic. So, does anyone know if Subaru has any intention of changing this "moonroof/leather available only with automatic" bias?. The dealer says that he can have leather installed at $1500 extra, but I don't care about it THAT much. Frankly, the way things are going, I might not even be able to find a manual in five years! Better make the right choice now.

Any ideas about the maintenance costs in Year 4?

Finally, since I am about 75 miles from each of three different dealers, would I be better off doing an internet search for pricing/availability? Is carsdirect.com a reputable middle man? Any other such operations? (I live in upstate NY)

stuhall · December 2003

Hi Sep,

I just bought an XT from Rancho Subaru on Clairemont Mesa. So far, they've been a nightmare for service and they delivered a dirty car.

I read on another forum that Irvine Subaru is good (although far away). The Internet department at Norm Reeves Subaru and Bob Baker Subaru were both very responsive. Personally, I wished I used them instead.

Good luck.

Stuart

sep_ · December 2003

Stuart,

Thanks for the info. Incidentally Rancho Subaru was the dealership we visited yesterday. While on the back lot looking for an XT to test drive, I spotted one whose right front tire was completely flat! Later on the test drive the kid encouraged me to "really try and redline it going through this curve." After hearing your story I'm really glad I just walked away. I'll shoot an email off to Bob Baker even though his dealership has a stupid slogan. I'll let you know if it really *is* nice to be nice at Bob Baker.

regards,
Sep

ateixeira · December 2003

Edmunds gives a rule of thumb, sort of. I'd visit your dealer and get quotes, then maybe compare to one reputable indy shop. You can forecast your costs that way.

I have found that costs vary widely. 60k service can cost $300 or $700, depending on where you go.

-juice

mnf · December 2003

I am in the pacific northwest and am looking for some leads on pricing on a forester xs Prm PKG. In the past i have purchased my cars and trucks up to 350 miles away in the past to get my deals so i am open to travel.I know the Portland /Seattle well and all inland.Looking to change from a Honda car and get in to a subaru so any help would help... Thanks Matt.

ballistic · December 2003

I recommend the Internet Sales Manager at Carr Subaru in Beaverton, just west of Portland.

lowellk · December 2003

Sep,

I bought my '03 Forester XS from Bob Baker Subaru in El Cajon in October 2002. Got lazy and purchased it through the Costco Auto Program. Price at that time was fixed at $500 over factory invoice. I dealt only with the fleet sales manager, primarily via phone and fax. Didn't meet him until I went to the dealership to sign the papers and pick up the Forester. It was the most positive, stress-free, auto purchase I've experienced.

I only recently learned that Rancho Auto Group acquired Balboa Auto Center. The first notice I had that something was up was after I logged in to mysubauru.com and noticed that Balboa Subaru was no longer listed among the dealers. The reports I've read about Rancho Subaru are much different than what I experienced at Balboa Subaru. I bought my wife's '01 Forester S from Balboa Subaru and paid $376 over factory invoice after haggling with the salesman. Their service department did well the two times we took the car in for regular maintenance. I hope Rancho doesn't scare off any more Subaru owners or potential buyers.

Cheers,

Lowell

bobshere1 · December 2003

I'd agree with ateixeira: If you count beans XT will disappoint. But if you don't mind spending a few hundred bucks a year extra for LOADS of smiles, the XT is the way to go. If you want the moonroof go for the premium auto tranny. Even if you think you wouldn't drive an AT performance car, try THIS one! It is usually faster off the line than the XT MT and gets better gas mileage! The moonroof is fantastic and the leather seats will look way better than cloth years from now and are VERY comfortable.

If you can't do at least an invoice deal, now, you're not really trying! Also, if you get the CHASE SUBARU credit card you'll get 3% off all your card spending, getting "Subaru Bucks" for Subaru service/parts/etc. This should easily make up the difference in gas costs between XT and lesser Foresters. I just got $500 in "Suby Bucks" for some bonds I bought online..... They are good until Jan. 2008. Better than a Warranty extension !!!!

I have absolutely no regrets with my AT XT. AND I'm "only" getting 18-19 mpg in my mostly city driving.... I KNEW I'd be spending a few hundred bucks more a year with XT and, going into it with that knowledge, does not lead to disappointment -- IF you want the fun and performance that you get with XT. It's like why I buy leather seating. I'm going to be sitting in that seat for many many years (I keep cars 10+ years). I wouldn't buy a cheap chair for my living room, so why should I "suffer" in my car. The extra money, averaged over a 10+ year period doesn't amount to much at all (and even less when you get more for the car when you sell one that doesn't have ratty worn cloth seating). The leather seats in the 12 year old Explorer I just sold looked like new ones!

ateixeira · December 2003

Try fitzmall.com if you're close to DC. Van Bortel also has no-haggle pricing in the NY area IIRC.

The Chase card is great, I gotta apply. The dealer let us put $3000 on credit when we bought the Legacy, so that would have been $90 right there. That would cover the first four oil changes already.

-juice

lowellk · December 2003

I'm with Bob on those Subuaru Bucks. I've got a stash of them, too. Nice to have 'em on hand to pay for service and whatever else might come up.

Cheers,

Lowell

sep_ · December 2003

Lowell,

Unfortunately it sounds like an entirely different dealership from the one you experienced. I knew that a Forester was the right car for me though so Rancho didn't succeed in scaring me off entirely. I used the car buying program that my credit union offered. I'm sure I could have haggled a slightly lower price but the price they came back with was fair and since I picked up my car at the credit union this afternoon, I didn't need to set foot in the dealership. At this point in my life I've begun to place a greater premium on my time and the couple hundred that I could have negotiated down wasn't worth the hassle.

cheers,
Sep

ninster · January 2004

I am looking around for an '04 Forester XT Prem Automatic. Any suggestions/past experiences/prices with subbie dealers in the Washington, D.C./Northern Va area?

I'm wondering also if all these prices people keep quoting on this list as their our of door price include taxes, processing, etc.?

Also, has anyone heard that black is a harder color to resell?

Thanks-any input would be much appreciated!
-ninster

lumbar · January 2004

www.fitzmall.com is a long time favorite pricing- wise on these boards. They're in suburban Md. but still close from No. Va. You'll get a price right on the site--and a good one.

Usually, in my experience, out the door quotes by posters here don't include taxes and frequently don't include "processing fees" (i.e., additional dealer profit), which can be a hefty add-on in No. Va.

Black tends to be a color that polarizes opinions.

p0926 · January 2004

Nina- The Fitzmall chain has some of the best prices around in the DC metro area (or any other area for that matter). I've heard that they offer a nice no-haggle buying experience also.

Prices quoted are almost always based off the invoice plus options and destination fee. Taxes, tag and title fees vary too widely from state to state (or even county to county) to be of any use for comparison purposes. The same is true for dealer processing fees although you should count them as part of the dealer's profit margin and adjust your offering price accordingly.

No I haven't heard that black is a harder color to resell (although it's certainly harder to keep clean!). Edmunds' used car price calculator does take color into account and it varies by area so you can check and see if black is a plus, a minus or a wash in your area.

-Frank P.

ballistic · January 2004

I'm wondering also if all these prices people keep quoting on this list as their our of door price include taxes, processing, etc.?

My 5-speed XT, including two Premium Packages plus the column-mount boost gauge plus $100 over dealer invoice, cost $23,973. All I had to add was Oregon's license fee, about $30 or so. There were no additional taxes or phony document-processing fees. That latter item is a tacked-on profit item that I would not tolerate from any car dealer, anywhere.

p0926 · January 2004

Hey Jack- Count yourself lucky when it comes to taxes! I had to pay 7%!!!

-Frank P.
<Contemplating a move to Oregon or New Hampshire>

ballistic · January 2004

On the other hand, we have one of the nation's highest income-tax rates - for residents of Multnomah County (which now has its own income tax), the rate is pushing 10% on all income above about $3K. I also pay nearly $8 grand per year just for real estate tax. I'm seriously considering a move across the Columbia River to Washington.

njswamplands · January 2004

on 8k of property taxes being high.

p0926 · January 2004

Jack- Okay New Hampshire it is (they've no income tax either). Hmmm, I've always liked New England and my XT would feel right at home :-)

-Frank P.

ballistic · January 2004

Don't laugh too hard, Swampy. Yours is the other state (besides mine) where legislators are unalterably convinced that the citizens are obviously too stupid to possibly be able to safely pump their own gas. Minimum-wage conscripts can obviously do it sooo much more safely.

ballistic · January 2004

Hmmm, I've always liked New England

Is Connecticut "New England"? I'm still trying to warm up from four winters at New London 35 years ago.

p0926 · January 2004

Is Connecticut "New England"?

Why yes it is. Although I dare say your present weather isn't much better! Not to get technical but I would have thought you were in Groton?

-Frank P.

ballistic · January 2004

Blame the Navy. Their official abbreviation for the location of the submarine base is NLON. I typed that so many times on so many transfer orders that it became second nature.

ninster · January 2004

thanks for all the responses regarding D.C./NOVA dealerships- checked fitzmall.com and found good prices, but actually was quoted a little bit cheaper by a NOVA dealership----$25,895 including all fees except for taxes and tags for an XT Prem with some options, so I think I'll bargain from there.

anyone have any past experiences/suggestions regarding getting extended warranty outside of the dealership? seems like a good bit of money can be saved, just trying to make sure these internet warranty sellers are legit. looked at "warranty direct" website....if anyone has purchased extended warranties or atleast researched them and have advice, please let me know. thanks!

p0926 · January 2004

If you're going to get an extended warranty, I strongly suggest that you stick with the manufacturer's. You definitely want to buy from a company that's going to be around 6 or 7 years from now. The independents frequently go out of business and the ones that don't often are reluctant to honor a claim. Also, don't you have to pay the entire bill and then file for reimbursement? Whereas with the manufacturer's you only pay a deductible.

-Frank P.

ken_from_nj · January 2004

yup - property taxes here suck
yup - can't pump my own gas although when it is 15 F degrees outside w/a nice windchill bringing it below 0 - sorta nice to sit in my car will some kid does it for me (like i did when i was 16 for a bit). all that for 1.45/gal current rate for 87 oct regular.
oh yeah - and yup - our politicians in nj also suck. we couldn't grasp the concept of GRIP in the last election (get rid of incumbant politicians) hey swampy - what dealer will you use for service?

njswamplands · January 2004

i am gonna try the dealer i bought from, liberty subaru

ballistic · January 2004

yup - can't pump my own gas although when it is 15 F degrees outside w/a nice windchill bringing it below 0 - sorta nice to sit in my car will some kid does it for me

I have no quarrel with people who'd rather have it done for them. My problem is, what business is it of lawmakers to make it illegal for me to pump my own if that is my preference? Answer: None.

Let the market decide! If there are sufficient numbers of people who willingly pay a few cents extra to patronize a fully-staffed station, then you can be sure operators will meet that demand. On the other hand, we ought not all be compelled to sit in our cars and wait, wait, wait interminably while some scowling dropout who will never understand the concept of multitasking shuffles slowly from one car to another. Can some of these people possibly move any more slowly, or be any more surly?

Lest anyone think that's an attack on every gas pump jockey, I spent my first 10 working years (from age 9 to 19) pumping gas in family-owned stations. We greeted every customer with wide smiles, we always moved at a fast run from car to car and between car and cash register, we never asked "would you like your oil and water checked" - we automatically did it, and if anyone ever failed more than once to provide that level of enthusiastic service, my old man would send him out to find another job.

How times change. Every single time an effort has been mounted to repeal Oregon's idiotic can't-pump-your-own law, the anti-self-serve people rise up and defeat it. Ridiculous.

p0926 · January 2004

I hear that vehicle insurance rates really suck in NJ also.

p0926 · January 2004

Other than NJ, I can't even remember the last time I saw a gas station that offered a full-service option (and I do a fair bit of traveling).

-Frank P.

njswamplands · January 2004

nj insurance is very high.

full service gas prices in NJ are lower than any state around with self-service.

property taxes are very high but like in most towns pay for the local schools ( cheaper than paying for a private school plus we get a tax deduction for prop taxes ). some great schools in nj.

i got a killer home on a couple of acres for the same price i would get a postage size lot in los angeles.

ballistic · January 2004

full service gas prices in NJ are lower than any state around with self-service.

This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a station is self-serve or full-serve. It is impossible to provide full-serve without incurring additional labor costs, and those costs are paid by customers - there is no free lunch. The price advantage to which full-serve customers often refer is due entirely to differences in state fuel tax rates. If you're in a high-tax state, your fuel will cost more even if it's self-serve. If you're in a low-tax state, your fuel will be cheaper even if it's full-serve.

ballistic · January 2004

In Oregon, we have the worst of all possible outcomes: High state fuel taxes, and a moronic law forbidding self-serve. Our pump prices are ridiculous, and the pro-full-serve lobbies prevent us from doing a damned thing about it.

ken_from_nj · January 2004

let the market decide - fair enough, i'll buy that however as you note earlier - it won't happen unless we get rid of some of our idiotic lawmakers. anyways - insurance - yeah can be high - we pay approx 2100/yr for 2 cars
1. 03 forester xs w/pp
2. 95 chrysler cirrus
both w/collision (500 deduct i believe) and comprehensive (100 deduct which i just used to replace windshield in chrysler) and the usual liability stuff. think i did not check the 'i'll limit how much i sue for box' either - can't remember. (this incase some moron smears me across the road). this is with USAA (had our in here via wife who's dad was career USA - highly recommend them if you can get them they even refunded us like 175 usd due to 'good returns' or something like that in their performance) i have no idea honestly how that stacks up against similar car/driver situations. 2 drivers (me/wife) ages 33.

2013 and earlier-Subaru Forester Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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