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Umm, are you seriously asking if $500 UNDER invoice on the all-new 2010 Outback was a good deal? There are no factory or customer incentives on this new car, so $500 under invoice is basically seriously eating into their holdback, and they are probably making a couple hundred dollars profit on it at best.
I was able to order my new Outback at invoice using the Subaru VIP program and considered myself very privileged to get it at that price, so count your blessings.
If you don't mind, please expound on your location and what you did to get it that far under invoice! Is there fine print on the sales order for things like prep fees and advertising fees that make up that $500 under invoice? Sounds too good to be true.
We are USAA members (husband is retired AF), so while getting my insurance info on-line during clunkers month, I also sent out info to USAA certified dealers via the USAA website. One Subaru dealer in MD came back with $200 below invoice. The dealer in VA beat that with their additional $150.
Then while doing all my research on how to go about negotiating the best deal, Consumer Reports suggests starting at the invoice price minus the holdback. So I presented a number to the dealer and he said he would give me $500 below invoice. I had the chutzpah to ask if that was on top of the $350 quoted so far and he said absolutely not! So I knew from his voice over the phone I had reached my bargaining limit with him.
There was one more dealer in VA that advertised they would beat any deal by $200, but by then I was tired of playing the game and I had already asked the current dealer I was working with to order the car.
I guess I have read too many posts where people have gotten $1,000 below invoice when negotiating a car deal and I was kicking myself for procrastinating on my "extras" before deciding what I wanted to order during C4C. If I had made my decision earlier, the dealer probably could have ordered a car in time to get a VIN number for me to qualify for C4C and I could have gotten $4,500 for my van. However, I wonder if more dealers were quoting MSRP and then taking $3,500 - $4,500 off, rather than selling close to or at invoice and then taking the C4C money off.
The only other fees quoted are VA sales tax (3%) on invoice plus processing fee of $289, a dealer license fee of .17% on invoice only (I checked these fees on the VA DMV site and they are legit); and $62.75 in tags and registration. I have to find out from the dealer specifically which fees quoted on the VA DMV site this includes.
Unfortunately, VA has no legal restrictions for processing fees as does MD ($99), so the doc processing fee is all over the map at VA dealerships. The first Subaru dealer had a fee of $369 and I have seen some other non-Subaru dealerships as high as $399.
What I didn't know is if I could still negotiate during the sales contract signing for anything else (since I have a buyer's order in hand) such as throwing in the car mats or cargo nets since I specifically ordered them with the vehicle, or if the doc fee is negotiable.
I also didn't know if the dealer quotes me lower on my trade-in than they did a month ago how hard I should push that issue since the KBB and Black Book values I have are higher.
Of the MD dealers which offered you the best deal? Thanks.
I will be contacting two dealers via internet this week to get prices on a 10 OB & will inform them up front that I have the VIP membership. One already told me he would sell us an OB at less than the VIP price so I want to be sure I have the proper understanding of what is included in VIP pricing structure. Thanks.
Still would love to know how they offered you $700 below invoice on a 2010 Outback Ltd. Great deal offer.
Do you think I still have room to negotiate when I actually have to go in to sign the sales contract when my vehicle is delivered?
I have also seen people mention the VIP program to get additional money off the price of the car. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Thanks.
The EXECUTIVE VIP Program is 2% below invoice. AFAIK, that's reserved for actual Subaru employees and other direct affiliates. I have no idea how to get that. The "regular" VIP program offered through many employers and via memberships through various sporting clubs is AT invoice.
The regular VIP program's terms are that everything ordered from the factory is at invoice.
I ordered an 3.6R Ltd (Azurite blue) with nav, moonroof, protection package 1A, puddle lights, interior LED lights, mirror with Homelink, trailer hitch, and several cargo nets -- all factory installed and at invoice price -- Invoice is $33,635 (MSRP $36,781). So I effectively got $3,100+ off of MSRP.
My dealer (Glanzmann Subaru in Philly suburbs) charges a $99 "dealer prep" fee with gugs me big time but they swear on their first born it is non-negotiable. Total charges including that dealer fee + tags, PA doc fees, tire tax, etc. total a reasonable $295 + 6% PA sales tax. Compared to some posts with $289 and higher just for dealer "fees", I can see how they can get away with charging under invoice and still pay the rent.
That said, I still feel envious that so many are easily getting deals under invoice with no negotiation, which quickly deflated my ego that I was getting such a good deal. Congrats to all who are pulling off those deals -- and I hope that those deals aren't padded with undervalued trade-ins. (I always make sure my deals are independent of the trade, and in fact I'm selling my old Forester privately using a courtesy pass-through at the dealer to save PA sales tax.)
Elliot
On the other hand, some info said Subaru holdback is 2% of total MSRP; other info said 3% of total MSRP. Consumer Reports gave an actual dollar amount of $849 for the particular model and options I ordered. That amount equates to 2.5% of MSRP.
Consumer Reports also said that a fair profit for the dealer is between 1% and 5% of the total MSRP. When I crunch my numbers, I compute that my dealer is making 1% of the MSRP with the below-invoice price he quoted me. So I think I got a good deal - and I am getting a new car with lots of goodies - something I never had before !
Are the interior LED lights you ordered the illumination package? I was thinking about getting that but then I thought it might be a distraction for me while driving at night. Please let me know how they are when you get your vehicle.
Be thankful for the $99 doc fee. It galls me to be paying $289 in VA (and that is cheaper than some VA dealers), especially since neighboring MD is $99 by law. Not sure if I can negotiate that fee down some when I actually sign the sales contract. Some research info says you can and some says you can't. But then again, some research info says you can't touch holdback, other info says you should negotiate price with the holdback in the mix. I guess it is all a matter of how hard each side is willing to dig in their heels and not budge on their bottom line price.
I'm glad you mentioned about the trade-in. I will definitely try to sell mine to another VA dealer that advertises buying used vehicles even if you don't buy a car from them. They offered me $200 more for my van than the Subaru dealer I am buying from. When I am ready to actually sell, I will have my KBB price in hand and fight for the highest amount I can get. In fact, my Subaru dealer offered me $500 less for my van than the lower end of the KBB value, so that is definitely how they would make up the $500 below invoice they quoted me, as you stated in your post. Thanks for helping me out!
Driving at night, I find that I have trouble grabbing my drink in the cup holder, so the illumination package goes beyond purely aesthetic to actually being functional, at least to me.
Elliot
I wonder if it is too late to add to my factory order. (This is exactly the type of indecisiveness that led me to miss out on C4C! :confuse: )
Does anyone know what is a *fair* price for used 09 2.5i Specials, autom tran, ranging from 6-13 k miles? Kelley BB has them listed abt that price; but I see from yuor June-July postings buyers were getting the 2.5is (not specials) new for 18-19k.
The ones I've found on the net in our area (Bucks Co PA & Trenton NJ) all appear after Carfax check to have been in rental fleets near airports.
Thanks for any help!
Still, if you can get one for 16-17k or so, that's a lot of car for the money.
Options:
Factory-ordered Cypress Green 2010 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited 4dr Wagon AWD (3.6L 6cyl 5A) with:
Optional Equipment:
04 Power Moonroof
MSRP: $995
Invoice: $829
LP2 Protection Package 1A (arch moldings, splash guards, rear bumper
cover, all weather mats and wheel locks)
MSRP: $766
Invoice: $483
E0A Media Hub
MSRP: $349
Invoice: $227
K0D Auto-Dimming Mirror w/Compass and Homelink
MSRP: $271
Invoice: $176
Q0G Moonroof Air Deflector
MSRP: $111
Invoice: $72
M0C Rear Side Compartment Cargo Nets
MSRP: $65
Invoice: $42
M0B Rear Cargo Net
MSRP: $52
Invoice: $34
M0A Front Seatback Cargo Net
MSRP: $52
Invoice: $34
Other options to be included: Hood protector, Ski rack and Center armrest extension, cargo mat and std carpeted floor mats.
Does that seem reasonable to you folks, and if we should be bargaining, what should we be aiming for? Thanks again!
How much were those SE models? New, I mean.
A program car should be 10-20% less than new.
Edmunds says the MSRP for new 09s this trim was $24,895, and Inv of 23,375 (not incl destin.).
They also say others in my area were paying $23,331 for them new (dest not incl).
So if you say a car that I'm pretty sure was used as a rental (Carfax says "major rental company" and the town was Elmhurst, NY; that is where La Guardia International is, and about 5 of them are on the market in my area at different dealerships, recently bought through the Eastern Regional Auction), if the dealer who owns them now is asking abt 22, 22.5 k, how far off are they in their asking price?
Also there are two that look like they were loaners at their dealerships. Same story---pretty low mileage, owned only by same place that is selling them---what abt them?
Moonroof, Protection pkg LP2 (AW mats, arch moldings, splash guards, bumper cover and wheel locks), int illum pkg, media hub, autodim mirror w/compass and h'link, moonroof air deflector, all cargo nets, hood protector and ski rack.
The only options I did not order: Nav, alarm upgrade, streaming audio, puddle and sill plate lights,
MSRP: 34894, TMV: 34459. I paid invoice, which was $32040 (all numbers include dest).
VERY happy with the deal and the dealership: Hodges Subaru in Ferndale, Michigan. Very low key, easy experience. This is a small, neighborhood, Subaru-only shop that has been around for many years.
Feedback?
have not seen or heard of any great deals in westchester and CT.
I suspect you are focusing on the asking prices of these used cars - when the final actual purchase price will be a function of your negotiation skills. Asking prices are pure fantasy.
I'm looking for some advices. A internet agent give me a quote below invoice price (before tax and documents fee etc), and all other dealer could not beat it so far. I don't know if the price is still negotiable or not after I visit them. And if the price is fair enough base on your buying experience??? For the real case, it's a 10' outback 2.5i w/ CVT, I got a $22.3k quotation.Should I keep contact with the agent with a counter offer? Compared with other dealer, I don't want to scare every availiable dealer away.
Any suggestion will be very useful. Reply to my email nataraj1993@gmail.com is also very welcomed.
Thanks for your help.
There are no customer or dealer incentives whatsoever on the 10 Outback, so dealers are only making about $600 when selling at invoice.
You are digging into their holdback if you try to haggle more at the dealership. At best, you'll get a couple more bucks out of them or maybe a cargo net thrown in; at worst, you'll just annoy them.
Thanks for your reply.
Bottom line is that currently anyone getting an Outback at or even below invoice is getting a great deal and I don't blame the dealers for holding firm to their lowest offer. In many areas, people are happily paying MSRP or perhaps $500 off. (I talked to a few people at my own dealership that were buying at MSRP. I kept my mouth shut that I got it for invoice under the VIP Program -- I felt privileged.)
I just wanted to know if $30,300+tax+fees is a good price for 2.5 limited with nav, LN4 Popular Equipment Group 2A and homelink mirror.. I am NJ. Thanks.
It would be helpful if you could inform us fellow forum members what the MSRP is with the options you mentioned and, even better, look up on Edmunds what the invoice price is. I don't know how many people here are going to do that homework for you.
Generally speaking, depending on region, getting it at invoice is considered a very good deal right now, with some competitive/ high volume dealers going maybe $200 under invoice. However, many others are only able to negotiate $500 or $1000 off MSRP, since the car is so popular at the moment. There are no rebates or dealer incentives at this time.
You also need to find out what dealer fees are. Getting it for $200 under invoice but being charged, for example, a $150 advertising fee, $295 doc fee, and $99 prep fee really is putting money back in the dealer's bottom line.
Good luck.
The MSRP is 32600. The dealer showed me invoice of 30288 for this car. The car is really hard to get....
I think that prior to C4C it was just much, much higher.
http://tinyurl.com/yb7n98l
Pick your engine, trans and trim level then click "Price with Options"
Good luck!
Thanks for your thoughts.
A better use of the money is to place the dollars you would have spent on the gold warranty in a CD for a term that ends when the basic warranty expires, then convert that CD into a dedicated auto repair account. Compare which strategy costs less after the gold warranty period ends.
In addition to saving on repairs due to it always being under bumper to bumper warranty, you will also save on sales tax. I would've paid over $2,000 in sales tax alone on my 2009 Tribeca. Instead I pay 7% of my lease payment, about $25.00. Another reason I lease is I never have to worry about buying new tires or getting new brakes. Also, I never lease unless I can save at least $100 a month vs buying it. If I would've bought my Tribeca I would've paid around $470 on a 72 month loan. I am saving almost $110 a month X 36 months on the lease = $3,960. Do you think your Outback will be worth $4,000 more than you owe in 3, 4, 5, 6 years from now. Absolutely not. Especially when 99% of dealers are offering you WHOLESALE trade in price. Don't throw money away on an extended warranty and don't buy. It's cheaper to lease a new car every 3 years.
Having said that the lease deals on the Outback right now are not very good. You will have to hold off to get a good deal. They will be better in the next month or two. I had a lease quote on a 2009 Outback Special Edition this time last year for $270 with nothing down. A 2010 Outback Premium is going to be $315+ right now.
Thanks so much for your input!
Oddly enough, the prices listed were the same for both of our vehicles:
6 years/60K mi. $564
6 years/80K mi. $840
6 years/100K mi. $1282