2013 and earlier-Subaru Outback Prices Paid and Buying Experience

subeeowner · February 2010

I started looking for a new 2010 Outback Limited for my wife in November 2009. Her getting the Subaru was a compromise. She really wanted a Honda Pilot. Eventually after testing driving the new Outback several times and explaining my opinion that the AWD system in the Subaru was superior to the Honda system she finally gave in. Her only demand was the color: Graphite Gray. ( On a side note, she's driven an outback during the winter on and off in upstate New York for the past five years. She would not even hesitate to tell you that she always felts safe, comfortable and had no problems). I also had a 2001 Legacy GT Limited that was finally done it by a deer.

So I started my search by going to my local subaru dealer in Kingston, New York. My family and I bought several cars from them over the past couple of years. So I expected to be treated right. That's not to say that I don't believe that people are entitled to make a profit: albeit a fair profit. Initially, the price issue was not even a concern, no one in the Hudson Valley had any cars in stock and no one expected any in for quite some time. After spending several weekends driving around and looking I was finally convinced they were right the only thing I could was order the car and wait.

So we went back to my local dealer one Saturday in earlier January and was pleased to be advised that they expected an Outback Limited in Graphite Gray to be coming in off their January allotment in the beginning of February. Previously, we had agreed upon a 2% markup from invoice. He knew, because quite frankly I told him, and I still feel this way, that I wouldn't have a problem paying a couple of hundred extra dollar to purchase the car from him than travel. I was, of course, a loyal customer.

(Turns out the loyalty only ran one way. As I see it, the demand for these cars was so high and availablity so low, that all dealers, including my friendly saleperson in Kingston, New York, had absolutely no problem with demanding a higher than usual profit margin. This experience was absolutely common place in the Hudson Valley.)

Anyway,back to this story: The problem with agreeing to 2% over invoice, isn't the 2%, it agreeing upon the invoice price. Not one dealer in the Hudson Valley agreed with the invoice prices listed on yahoo, edmunds, or truecar. They all pulledwhite invoice sheets to show they were paying substantially more than the invoice price listed on those websites. The difference in invoice was more than a couple of hundred bucks. The invoice price diffence from the dealer in Kingston was about fifteen hundred dollars. A considerable difference.

Now listen to this, the salesperson tells me I can have the car coming from the January allotment, due in earlier February, for $30,724: (Limited w/autodimming mirror, all weather mats, splash guards, remote engine start,rear bumper cover, and trailer hitch), or I could same the car for $30,124 if he ordered it. Bottom line he is wanted a $600 premium, ontop of an already inflated price, for the car that was on his allotment but wasn't even have on his lot. Well I left and no member of my family will never go back to that dealership to buy a car. No way!

Well say good bye to Kingston and say hello to Van Bortel.

Van Bortel is a true no haggle dealership. They post their price on their web page. That's the price: no tricks, no gimmicks, no hassle. The buying experience was simple. I called up told them what I was looking for. They asked if I wanted to order the car. I said go ahead. The confirmed their price was the same as the price advertised on their website. They said approximately 4 weeks for delivery. I told them to go ahead and order it. I e-mailed them once or twice during the period with some questions. They called back the next day without fail. Always polite. Always courteous. Always professional. Three weeks into the process they called and said they expect the car the next week. The next week they called and said its in. They did all the usual paperwork with DMV and my insurance agent. I then drove four hours to pickup the car. Not one problem. Not even a hiccup. The price was the price. Dan Fisher and Jeremy at Van Bortel were great. Dan then spent probably close to an hour go over the features with my Wife. This was the simplest and best car buying experience ever. It was worth the trip.

napaoutback · February 2010

You may want to check with Jenson Subaru in Napa. I know it's a long drive from SC but we just ordered a '10 Outback (3.6 Prem) at invoice. Some of the other dealers in the Bay area were telling me the same thing you heard. It is a 8-10 week wait for the car, but that is no reason to charge you more. They are still making about $1k in dealer holdback at invoice.

msj09 · February 2010

There are several dealers in the bay area and almost all will go below MSRP for instock vehicles. (invoice for ordered ones). Try Livermore or Putnam for some of the better deals.

xwesx · February 2010

Great story, though I am sorry you went through all the hassle! I essentially experienced the same thing in September when I purchased mine. While my local dealership does not give you the runaround, they also have no bones about being adamant at selling their cars at MSRP. I traveled 2,200 miles to purchase mine in Seattle, WA at $300 under invoice for a pleasant, no-hassle experience.

williams2150 · February 2010

Thanks for the input. I think in california I can only buy in california because of the special emission requirments. Is that still true? Can I buy from a dealer in Seattle, WA and register it in Calf.

xwesx · February 2010

You can buy any PZEV car (CA emissions requirement) anywhere and register it there. There are a growing number of states that have adopted California Emissions Standards:

Connecticut
Massachusetts
Maine
New Jersey
New York
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
Vermont
Washington

PZEV is optional elsewhere, so there is a good chance you can also find those vehicles in states other than the ones I just listed.

One thing you might verify with Subaru is whether the extended warranty for emissions components (15 years / 150,000 miles) is extended to vehicles purchased by CA residents if the car is purchased outside the state of residence. I would think 'yes,' since those individuals do not have the option of purchasing non-PZEV vehicles, but one never knows....

In case that last statement confused you, I purchased a PZEV vehicle in Washington (required there) but am not eligible for the extended warranty on those emissions components because I live in Alaska and my purchasing of a PZEV vehicle was by my choice. Therefore, if those components fail I am stuck holding the bill.

claude618 · February 2010

Once I decided on the Outback I went to http://www.pricequotes.com/index.html

I looked in my area (Binghamton, NY) and because I have some family in Bergen county, NJ, I got some quotes there too.

Wonderful response time and the real players were as follows:

Bill Kolb Jr. Subaru (NJ) - Very straightforward. Will sell @ invoice.

Ramsey Subaru (NJ) - Asked for a competitive bid on a limited and he said straight out '500 under invoice'. The only small gotcha is that they had a $299 doc fee which wiped out some of the gain.

Matthews Subaru (Binghamton area) - This is my local dealer. The internet rep was friendly and willing to work with me based on my NJ quotes. The sales rep who represented my walk in experience for the test drive was wonderful too.

Bottom line.... The dealers had the following prices to order this car (which includes moonroof, Homelink compass auto-dim mirror, bumper cover and media hub)

Matthews = 29117 +147.5 in fees.
Ramsey = 28571 + 359 in fees.

Matthews said they couldn't go more than 200 below invoice but gave me a more than a fair price on my trade in... about 500 over TMV@edmunds (3k for 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee 103,300 miles) which made them competitive. Assuming Ramsey could at least match the trade in offer (which of course they can't do sight unseen), the difference between the dealers was $365. At that price, a 'looks see' trip to NJ seemed less appealing. I suggested that if they can cut another three hundred I'll skip the NJ trip and buy local..... they came back with 200 added to my trade in value which was good enough for me.

So, bottom line.... 29,117 - 3,200 (trade) + 2,073.36 (8% NYS tax) + (147.5 fees) I am at $28,137.86 OTD.

Matthews Subaru was wonderful to deal with on this and since I proceeded with my internet quotes and was willing to commit to a trip if the price was worth it, I found everything smooth and easy. I highly recommend them.

Ramsey, if I lived closer, would have been good too and I may have been able to get an even better deal there, depending on where they came in on the trade.

I put down my deposit tonight and I'll update with better details as they unfold while I wait 4-6 weeks.

Thanks,

Claude

carl441 · February 2010

I love my 1999 Outback with 180,000 miles but it's time for me to get a new one. I'm looking for a blue 2.5i Limited or Premium with auto and moonroof (not at all interested in All-Weather package that seems to be almost standard.) There are three dealers in the Greater Cincinnati area but I am willing to go beyond the area, maybe by 3-4 hours, if I can get a good price. I get kind of worked up when jacked around at the dealers (my '99 purchase from a Cincinnati dealer was not one that I remember fondly.)
When searching the Internet I find lots of sites that wish to submit my name for a dealer's bid or maybe just an email or phone response. Then there are sites like CarsDirect that will get a "good" price for a fee, and sites of many other variations for buying a car
I will appreciate any advice on buying an Outback in the extended Mid-West region where a fair price is assured along with decent buyer treatment.

seabrook7039 · February 2010

"I'm looking for a blue 2.5i Limited or Premium with auto and moonroof (not at all interested in All-Weather package that seems to be almost standard.)"

Note: the All-Weather Package and the Harman-Karman Stereo upgrades are standard on the Limited Outbacks but optional on the Premium models.

ifontaine · February 2010

Carl, I was able to get a 2.5i Limited w/ power sunroof for 27,800 back in November. You can probably do better than that now if you are able to pit them against each other.

I live in Columbus, and started with an online quote from Wagner in Dayton. Then slowly worked them against each other. I ended up getting the price that I wanted ($28K), and from a local dealership (Byers Mazda Subaru in Dublin). My sticker is $30,157, and the aftermarket accessories were rear cargo net, bumper cover, all weather floor mats...I found the salesguy I worked with to be extremely knowledgeable and thorough. I also dealt with Hatfield Subaru in Columbus, and would recommend them as well. At least up to the point that we had agreed on a deal. It was just that Byers Mazda Subaru had the right color (sky blue for me w/ black leather).

My recommendation is to work through the internet sales managers. My buddy did this for me and taught me how to play the game. You email one, asking if they'd be willing to sell it at a slight diiscount...maybe $2K off...then when they say "yes", you start sending that around to other dealers...."Joe at Ganley is willing to sell me a 2.5i Limited /moonroof, stock#111111 for $28,400. Can you beat that?"

In reality, I probably could have gotten another $400 or $500 off, but I was happy with my deal. I had both dealers agreeing to give me what I wanted on price. But I liked the Byers Mazda Subaru guy better. I did not like the Byers at the airport at all. I found them condescending and rude.

I think that if your area dealers think they might lose their deal to Columbus area dealers, they might be more willing to deal.
Good luck.

jameslee4 · February 2010

I spent the weekend trying to order a 3.6r Limited Outback here in the bayarea. The best I could do was dealer invoice. My wife and I dealt with Sam Levy at Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City. He was very helpful. They took a $500 deposit and told us it would take 60-90 days. He had some 4cly. Outbacks on the lot at $500 over dealer invoice. The best part was he did the order online thur Subaru infront of us. So we got a printed copy of the order. Well I will tell you guy's when the car gets in my hands. Go see this Levy guy at Carlsen.

kyfdx · February 2010

In my limited experience shopping Subarus in Cincinnati, Joseph in Florence seemed to be the straightest shooters.. Gave a lot of info over the phone, without being evasive.. and, seemed to have the best price..

I didn't buy there, because they didn't have the model I wanted in stock... My experience at Beechmont was okay.. got a good price, but it took a little extra work..

AWP includes heated mirrors... I don't have those... and, wish I did.. Mine were iced over after work, yesterday.

carl441 · February 2010

Thanks for the information. Can you recall how much your cost was compared to the invoice, apples-to-apples? When you talk about extra work, can you tell me what happened, specifically? Thanks again!

ateixeira · February 2010

Good story, and I can say the same about Fitzgerald Subaru as well (also a no-haggle dealership).

The main benefit here is you can relax and pick the car you love, without being adversarial with the dealership staff. :shades:

my1stscoobydoo · February 2010

Sweetsoul - for what its worth I got a killer deal on my 2010 OB and thought that i would share the details in this forum. What did I get for that? A pile of crap from some bozo named Stoopy. Pay no mind, the person is an ABSOLUTE MORON and has no idea on how to negotiate a deal. He basically tried to pic my deal apart and call me a liar which is very funny because I am a former sales manager of a VW store, so I think I know how to buy a car AND explain it properly. Anyway, nice work on your Subie, I'm loving mine.

claude618 · February 2010

You should always do better than MSRP. What you need is to talk to the dealer internet sales reps who typically do not work on commission. For me, I started here -> http://www.pricequotes.com/index.html

Put in your zip code, what you are looking for, and competitive internet quotes (invoice or below) should start coming in. You can use the offers you get to get others to come down. You should be able to make your deal before you even meet the sales rep.

-Claude

free8135 · February 2010

I just ordered similar car in Oakland Downtown Subaru for invoice price - delivery date in 2-3 weeks.
Also Capitol Subaru from San Jose were willing to sell similar car on the same price.

As I understood there is shortage of base CVT models in Bay Area, but some dealers are willing to accept invoice offers on car in transit.

climate · February 2010

ifontaine, is your deal 27800 including tax?
Thanks.

ifontaine · February 2010

No it was not, technically. Sticker was $30,157.....agreed upon price was $27,800 less $2,000 for trade. Add tax ($1,800ish), license fees ($33.50?), and doc fees (250), and my out the door price wa around $27,900. I don't remember the exact numbers. According to Edmunds TMV, the invoice was $28,553.

nikki1 · February 2010

If ya in texas, buy from George Town Subaru.. interenet Sale manager C.B.. is very patient person.. I had prior post 3.6R. ..wife wanted the 2.5i Premium.. for reasons of money and gas.
bottom line we bought a 2.5i Premium Harmon Kar. radio, trailer hutch, dog divider.. for $25k before tax. / lic.
I would like to say thank you to my sale rep. for putting up with me the last 4 weeks. I would never buy or service from Austin Subura..
Also I bought 7yr 100k Zero deductuable coverage for $1461.00 , which I think is worth it for trouble free 100k
Thanks again George Town Subaru..

Vu

hoshian · February 2010

2010 Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium w/All-Weather Pkg, splash guards, auto dimming mirror w/ compass, cargo net
MSRP $27,170
Invoice $25,188
OTD price $25,557 (includes SC sales tax $300, registration $30, doc fee $489)
I'm essentially paying $39 above invoice before tax and registration
The inventories around where I live are non-existent. Anywhere from 3 to 9 outbacks on the lots. Only one dealer in my area. I'm driving 3 hrs to get the one I want at this price.
Is the deal any good?

linkfeeney3 · February 2010

good day to all

My wife and I have been looking at the legacy and outback

we like the outback 3.6 R premium... its going to be my wife's car.
we drove it, CVT is too boring and had absolutely no torque!!

we test drove the legacy h-6 and it sure can MOVE!! OH YEAH!!
so I'm sure the outback h-6 is going to be nice too... but the dealer didn't have it in stock

the car comes out at $29690... how much do you guys think I can get it off for?

I looked at the 2.5i premium, add the cvt and the all weather package... it was like $27K!! Unreal!!

F the MPG!!! Lets put more in more ponies and fly like the wind!!

godeacs · February 2010

Good but can do better. Go to truecar.com and plug in the numbers. A "good price" is about $50 under invoice, a "great price" is approx $500 under invoice. Considering your location and scarcity of inventory and dealers you may be stuck. Even at that price you are doing OK.....

nikki1 · February 2010

Hello SC-
Doc fee $489.00 (that is crazy) .. you need to check with your local state DMV to see the acutal cost would be.. for mine in Texas, was $125.00. (from other posting. , they say the doc fee is pure profit for the dealer).
Offer then that. it is some close .. you can check my prior post, i had posted consumer report base line price.
btw.. i bought my 7yr/100k NO deductable coverage for 1461.00

goodluck.
vu

djhalptert · February 2010

I am waiting for dealers to try to charge me for the following:

Fluorescent Light Fee
Glass Fee
Bathroom Fee
Pen and Paper Fee
Oxygen Fee

Any time a dealer says "our document fee is ...." I say "I won't pay that because I know it is b.s." No dealer has ever refuted that fact and I have never paid a document fee.

morin2 · February 2010

Excellent. I have paid small doc fees ($99 - 125) - but I insist that we revisit the contract and subtract the same amount from the negotiated price "before doc", so the OTD price remains the same.

They could charge me a coffee fee - I do swill it down and it helps my negotiation stamina.

ateixeira · February 2010

Here in MD I think those are limited to under $100, so most dealers charge $99.

pf2001 · February 2010

Hi folks,

We had an Outback H6 but gave it to my mother inlaw. We are looking at the Legacy H6 Limited. I received a price for 26,958 (excluding taxes and tags). Good price?

ateixeira · February 2010

What year? That price seems way too low for a new one.

pf2001 · February 2010

Sorry about that. It's a 10. I checked it with truecar and it shows as good price. They would have to order it....

ateixeira · February 2010

Well the deal has my blessing.

xwesx · February 2010

Hahahah; and, there you have it! Run, do not walk, to buy that car! :P

pf2001 · February 2010

LOL, thanks guys.

ateixeira · February 2010

I guess it's that the Legacy is priced so much lower than the Outback.

Honestly, I expected someone to pop in and say it would be in the $30s.

The 3.6R costs less than the GT, right?

pf2001 · February 2010

Yes, the Legacy is priced lower than the OB. I would have gone with the OB but they do not come in a sedan any more. I know the Legacy and OB are the same but I like the clearance of the OB.

Yes, the GT cost more.

britgeezer · February 2010

Well, after a long wait (ordered November) yesterday we finally picked up our 2010 OB 3.6R Limited with sun roof. Very happy with it so far .. 200 miles.

Purchased from Suburban Subaru in CT, why? because the price was better than in NJ. I have to say apart from the wait, (ours was a custom order from any dealer in the northeast), this dealership made the transaction simple and painless, especially the pick up process.

ateixeira · March 2010

Congrats. Those are hard to find! :shades:

britgeezer · March 2010

Having taken deliver of my OB I started looking at extended warranties, can I ask you the obvious question.

You now have a 7/100K no deductible warranty, the car came with 3/36K, so when the dealer mentions 5 years or 7 years for his price its really for the extra 2 or 4 years - is that right? Or does it cover something the OEM warranty doesn't?

I just want to be sure I calculate the different options and offers correctly.

Did you check out any of the dealer offers available via eBay?

xwesx · March 2010

That's right; the extended warranty only extends the factory warranty to the later dates, but the calculation remains from the original service date. So, for the 7/100 gold warranty, that's seven years from the original service date or 100,000 miles.

curve · March 2010

A dealer is telling me that a 2.5i LTD with option 08 (Nav+sunroof) has an invoice price of $30,131. I come up with $28,767. The difference is quite high. He argues that his quote is at cost and that NE distributors is different from Subaru of N.A. Then he explains that PZEV is "approximately" $500 (I think it's more like $300 and an option in MA, not mandatory). "Edmunds tends to be a little off".

All other accessories were priced (correctly) at invoice.
The made-to-order will take 12 weeks to deliver.

Any comments from the experts out there?

He agreed to sell at "invoice price". The doc fee is under $300. My goal is invoice minus doc fee.

Thanks.

ateixeira · March 2010

You are correct about the cost of PZEV, and I think SoNE prices are a couple hundred higher, but that does not add up to the $1400 or so difference.

He must be adding other fees, maybe advertising or processing?

This is why I usually ask for out-the-door prices. I ask them to include even state tax, and fees for tags.

xwesx · March 2010

The three times I have purchased new Subaru vehicles, Edmunds invoice is spot-on. I strongly suspect this dealer is "a little off."

curve · March 2010

Correction:
PZEV is mandatory in MA

So should I add $300+ to the invoice price to be fair?

ateixeira · March 2010

Yeah, I think it was just over, $308 IIRC? That may have been for the Forester, though.

kyfdx · March 2010

Subaru does sell their cars through a distributor in the Northeast.. similar to how Toyota does it in the Southeast and Gulf States...

I have no idea what the extra costs are, but as an example... a Toyota in the Southeast can cost the dealer upwards of $1000 more than in other parts of the country..

psdxoh · March 2010

For a 2010 Outback 2.5 Premium CVT I paid $650 below dealer invoice, plus the $250 dealer documentation fee and sales tax

nickc3 · March 2010

WHERE did you get this deal ($650 under invoice). I'm in Northern NJ.

ateixeira · March 2010

Great deal indeed, congrats.

strapper336 · March 2010

how much would you offer the dealer for a 27-28K MSRP sticker on a new 2010 Outback?

strapper336 · March 2010

I want to get a feel for how low the dealer will come off the msrp. I have 2000 from one dealer off msrp on the 2.5 outback premium with all weather package. can they go lower?

2013 and earlier-Subaru Outback Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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