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Comments
the asking price is 17,900 how are the 03s and how is this price? thanks
- Mark
The biggest early problems are squeaks, rattles, falling apart trim, loose seats, bad locking mechanisms, loose hatches, etc. Basically the interiors were falling apart. There was a bad problem in the first couple years of the car where there was a cooling fan on the power steering pump on the bottom of the car that would get knocked out and trash the power steering system - I think they put a guard on it on later models. There were issues with the locks and shifting mechanims freezing up in cold weather. The power window mechanism has a special feature that cracks the door when you open it - this has caused a lot of issues. Some of the early cars appear to have had contaminated cooling systems - the antifreeze would turn chocolate brown almost immediately. For a long time, there has been a clicking/binding problem in the power steering column - I'm not sure they have this one completely solved still; my car is afflicted, although in a mild way. There were lots of problems with the early cars that had severe "yo-yo" issues where the car wouldn't accelerate smoothly through the middle RPM range. This one has died down with lots of software revisions to the engine computer. The early cars had balky CVT's and there have been some CVT failures.
That's the major stuff I remember off-hand. In contrast, the basic engine, suspension, and brake systems have been fairly robust. And everything has improved over the years - folks who bought early models and traded them in on later models say the improvement in fit/finish and tightness is absolutely night and day.
Hope this helps,
- Mark
your reply was really helpful
- Mark
Could you identify the dealership (and city) that offered $750 off MSRP on any MINI ordered?
Thanks it will help all of us MINI buyers.
Logan
The best I've seen is 500 off MSRP (legitimate); if you can get $750, you're doing well. There have unsubstantiated rumors of people getting a thousand off MSRP.
If you're not in a hurry, and your set on a 2006, you'll probably see them with the biggest discounts we'll ever see late this fall and into the winter--with the 2007's around the corner, the dealers are going to be aggressive selling the 2006's.
Most folks are paying right around MSRP+TTL and perhaps a small doc fee on top of that. West coast buyers are still sometimes paying up to $1K more than this, and some eastern buyers appear to be getting small discounts or accessory toss ins. But in general, the current market is MSRP.
- Mark
Could a Californian has bought out of state and successfully brought a Mini back to CA let me know how the process went?
Thanks so much!
e.
The "use" tax is just another name for sales tax for something purchased out of state. When you register the car, you'll have to pay the use tax (plus any license and title fees) just like you bought the car in CA. The use tax rate will be the same as the sales tax rate you'd pay based on where you live.
I'd try and buy in a state that has no sales tax or that doesn't charge sales tax for an out-of-state buyer. (Talk to the dealer about this.) CA does have arrangements with most states to credit you for sales tax paid out of state, but it's just better if you can buy the car and not have to pay anything and worry if the credit will work out. There may be a small doc fee or temp license fee so you can get a temp plate and this will not be credited by CA. Get a fully itemized list of all the charges the selling dealer is going to charge so you don't get surprised.
I live in WA state (local dealers were getting $1000 over MSRP + one year wait for a MSC) and bought in TX (MSRP and immediate ordering for a two-month wait). I did pay a small temp tag/doc fee - I think it was $100 - and this got me a paper plate to get home on. The whole thing went very smoothly and the drive home was a blast. Many CA buyers have done what you're talking about, so the road is well-trodden. You won't have any problems.
- Mark
any add-on like simonize, paint protection, or super duper special spit shine is a rip-off.
LoJack, if you want it, is about $695 full retail from what I've seen on my quick internet search.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Hi Everyone!
I have been reading a lot of the posts on here trying to figure out an answer to my question, but have been a bit confused. Therefore:
Has anyone bought a new 2006 Mini convertible with some options (Cold weather pkg, sport seats, DSC) for anything less than MSRP in the NJ/NY/CT/PA area? And, has anyone had any experience purchasing from Morristown Mini?
Thanks for your help!
We contacted several out of state dealers - one in OR sells at list but has a 9 month waiting list. One in MN would sell at list with a 2 month wait but after weighing the hassles of driving or shipping, etc., the Sacramento dealer made sense. We really love the MINI and the whole buying experience was a pleasure.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
does anyone have any experience buying a mini from the kansas dealership. does MSRP include the tax or do i need to pay it additionally?
I am looking at buying a Mini in NC. I just started looking. I have been in contact via email to Flow Mini. Has anyone had any experience with them. Any suggestions about purchasing/dealing??
I drove a mini in Germany on the Autobahn and have been in love ever since.
Do you have a source you can reveal?
I see many competitive systems using GPS you can install yourself, and track it with your own PC or laptop,
Most of those are around $200.
I also live in Washington State. I just visited the Mini dealer in Tacoma area, and they want $595 over MSRP. Plus they told me it's going to be a 15 month wait now!!
Who did you talk to in TX and what city? Did you get any freebie add-ons (floor mats, arm rest, cup holder, etc.)? I didn't think about checking with a dealer in TX. Do they import them directly there from the Gulf? How many miles is that? I might be able to handle a drive home if it's not too much over 1,500 miles or so...
Can someone lead me to a reasonable Mini Dealer with a reasonable waiting time (hopefully 2 months or less)? I'd like to order a new 2006, but I don't want to wait over a year to get it (not to mention pay extra). I've talked with a dealer on the east coast. They offered MSRP and a two month wait, but that's a 3000 mile drive back to home. Any advice out there?
Thanks,
Brenda
If you don't want one of the new models, here's an article discussing the timelines for ordering the old model. It appears that since the new model won't be coming stateside until early 2007, there might be a couple more months to get an order in for the old model.
http://motoringfile.com/2006/06/13/2006-model-year-ordering-details/
If I was in the market now, I'd probably wait a few months and see what the scoop is on the new model. The turbo wouldn't bother me (especially if it improves on the abysmal gas mileage of the supercharged engine), but the first-year unreliabilities of a new model from BMW would. I think the best time to get the new model would be a 2008 model in the fall of 2007. If I were to get a new one, that's when I'd be targeting to buy a car.
- Mark
How long did the Santa Ana Crevier dealer tell you it would take for you to get your Mini? I don't think I could stand to wait until next year to get one. I'm a Mini manic now..
I was thinking it would be a good idea to get the additional security system. It makes a difference on my auto insurance. I was told by Prestige Mini in NJ that it would cost $445 installed.
I'm going to check with the Texas Mini dealer to see if they'll throw in any freebies (floor mats, cup holder, arm-rest, and/or an extended warranty).
Thanks for your reply
Thanks for the tip about the cup holder and info on the OEM armrest. Where would I get an after market armrest?
How long did you have to wait for your Mini, and where did you get it (City/State)?
I just talked with a Mini dealer in TX (one that someone recommended on this forum). They said it'll be about 6 weeks for special order. I can't figure out why it takes so long to get one here in Washington State (15+ months I'm told).
Anyway, thanks for your reply...
As for an after market armrest, Mini Fini makes a nice one; there are others as well but I can't remember them all. The one nice thing about the OEM armrest is that it has a storage area, but it's so creaky, I'm afraid it'll break someday. And I don't need the storage; I replaced the bolster underneath the steering wheel with the european parcel shelf (It's much more practical than the bolster in the U.S. cars; I'm not sure why it's not standard, but it's fairly easy to switch out--not only does it give you hidden storage, but it also slightly increases leg room--I'd highly recommend it). I'll probably eventually replace my armrest with the Mini Fini one, but that will be quite a job, and will require a new piece for the center console (If you don't get the factory armrest, you won't need any new pieces for your console--the factory armrest uses a modified piece for the back of the console that won't work so well with the Mini fini).
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
2002 Mini Cooper, British racing green with stripes on hood, white top and white mirrors
5-speed manual
30,125 miles
Silver 15'' alloy wheels
Black Leather Interior
Chrome Line Exterior
Heated Front Seats
Fog Lamps
"premium package" - i believe this is the a/c control and the controls on the steering wheel
"on-board computer" - not sure what this refers to except gas mileage info.
CD-changer in the hatchback plus one-CD player in the dash
electric windows and door locks
electric sun roof with sun shade
in very good condition... some minor scratches that are hardly evident
Asking $13,995
This car is being sold by a Mini dealer in the South. This seems like a good price for a Mini. I've never seen one at this price. Kelley Blue Book lists this car slightly higher for private-party sales. Although there is virtually no warranty left (Sept. 06) and the dealer doesn't have a "certified used car program", they are saying that the original owner traded it in for an automatic because his wife didn't drive a stick. Also, they are saying that they have checked the car over and found no problems, would have replaced the tires if there was a certain amount of tread gone, etc.
My questions:
1) Is this a good price, or could it be low because there's something wrong with it?
2) Is buying a 2002 looking for trouble? I have found most consumer reports of this car's reliability and safety to be high.
3) I currently can't afford lots of high maintenance costs... is it just assumed that the Mini is an expensive car to maintain (I've heard brakes all around go for $700 and oil changes are $120, but only required every 12-15,000 miles)
4) do I have the right to have this car checked by another mechanic (although I'm not sure who in the area is qualified to check it)
5) I think this car takes premium gas, which may negate the money I save on gas milege... any thoughts about whether the cooper must have premium gas. (I know the 'S' requires it).
6) any other advice you can offer!
I would love to drive a Mini, but I'm not sure it is cost feasible.
Max
First, you're paying about 70% of new price for a four-year old car. This is an extremely high percentage - residuals for four-year old cars are generally less than 50% and can be as low as 30%. Now this may be where the used Mini market is - they're "hot" and the supply still hasn't caught up with demand. But it makes them generally poor used car values.
Second, I don't think it's a good idea to buy a 2002. They have compiled one of the worst repair records of any recent car, not surprising as the first year of any BMW new model is typically very unreliable. And you've already stated you don't have the stomach for big repair bills.
I'd suggest either of the following:
1) Spend another $4K and get a brand new Mini with a full warranty and free maintenance. Given normal maintenance and repair, I venture that the new one would cost you less than the used one over the four-year period. (IOW, if you can't stretch the additional $4K for the new one, you probably shouldn't be buying the used one because it could easily cost you $4K in repairs over four years.) And it's a car with four-years of dramatic improvements. Granted, it doesn't have a leather interior and an on-board computer, but I see much more value in the stripper new car than in a few ticky-tack options on the used car.
3) Get a Honda Fit Sport for $15K. It's not a Mini, but it's a very fine car, probably more reliable, gets better gas mileage, is very fun to drive, and like the new Mini, it's brand new with a full warranty.
Again, this used Mini may be fairly priced - I just don't see the value spending this much for the first production year of a problematic car.
- Mark
So - either get a new one then and watch it keep its value or get a used one for $10K and laugh at all of the people who ate the depreciation.
The Fit - it needs a few aftermarket parts to be a Mini S, but it's pretty close to a base Mini.
The Mini is driven almost entirely on the idea of it being faddish and unique/limited, so the older ones will quickly be less desireable, even if it is mostly the motor and some sheetmetal that's changing with the new one. Everyone will want the new one and that's not so bad, actually. I bet you can get a couple of year used Mini for very little in a few months.
Everyone may not want the new one--there are a fairly large numnber of people who have ordered the 2006 instead of the 2007 because of several concerns with the new model (myself included). There are some potential issues with the new one, the jury is out on it.
I just had a few followup questions I'm wondering if you can answer:
1) you're saying that I'd be paying almost 70% of the new price for a four-year old car... but if the Kelley Blue Book is showing a similar price, doesn't that mean the car is holding its value? Used Toyotas and Hondas are often expensive, even at 4 years but it is because they are holding their value. Of course their reliability is higher.
2) If I could get the dealer to come down on the price, what would be reasonable for this car? Perahps the 4k I might expect to pay in repairs? Although it is doubtful they will do it, maybe I should see what their response is to an offer of $10k?
I've looked at the new Minis online and it seems that even the stripped-down model costs about $17900 + destination charges, putting it at about $19k or more. That's a bit hefty, for me, but you're right to say that I might be paying that in repairs. (Also seems that all of the interesting colors now cost $400-600).
I did see the Honda Fit. Also saw Toyota's Yaris, equally priced, but might as well buy a Corolla at $15K. One thing the Mini has that these cars don't is leg room and a front seat that goes very far back. At 6'2, that's really important for me. Yesterday I drove the VW Rabbit which was quite responsive and has great legroom, too. The 2-door is $14990, but will probably be close to $16 with deal add-ons. The gas mileage is surprisingly bad for the Rabbit, though, i guess because the engine is a 5-cylinder.
Thanks again for your help!
Max
Two pricing questions... one is, I went to the San Francisco MINI dealer and they are charging $1500 over the base model, or $2500 over the S... just 'cause they can. Has anybody been able to bargain their way out of this? Or any experiences buying out of state in order to avoid this mark up?
Secondly, I've read a bit about the 2007's coming out. Does anybody know if the new base model (the 150 hp one) will be more expensive than the current base model? My guess would be yes, but I'd love some hard numbers to help me figure out when to put in an order.
One other general question would be feedback about the cost and frequency of repairs on newer MINIs. It sounds like the older ones have required a lot more repairs. In general, are the repairs significantly more expensive than other cars?
Thanks!
Chloe
I've been looking at new Minis, too. I'm in Memphis and there is one dealership here. There's also one in Nashville. They sell the Cooper at $17,450, which I believe is the base price. Then there is the cost for whatever add-ons are already on the car, then whatever the dealer adds. However, they said I can avoid that by "building my own" online and then ordering it through them. They won't mark it up. However, they said they will not deal on the base price the way that other brands (toyota, etc.) will. So, if you take the base and then add only what you want, the car can stay under $20k, which is what I'm trying to do.
You should check to see if you can do that in SF without the mark up. I lived out there, but didn't shop for a Mini while I was there. Ordering takes about 6-8 weeks, but in the scheme of saving, that's not all that long. The Memphis dealer (Roadshow Mini) actually mentioned that the dealers in California do charge more because they can get it. They also said that sometimes they have a guy that comes and buys from them and then takes the cars to California to sell at mark them up. I don't know if that's true or not.
Re: the 2007... I also heard some information about that. Apparently the design is top secret and no one has seen it, and I don't think there's any pricing info. either. The dealer said Mini is going to stop taking orders for 2006 in the next couple of months (Sept./Oct?) because Mini wants to shut the factory to retool for the 2007 production line. That probably means some delays in getting 2007 cars. Also, even though this will be a second generation Mini, it will be a "first-year" production of the "new" model. From what I've always heard and read, 1st year productions tend to have issues. Again, this is not a "brand new" production, but a different production of the Mini.
In talking to people about repairs, the consensus seems to be that they are more expensive than other cars. It is, essentially, a BMW product, and BMWs tend to be more expensive. That is why I want to buy a new Mini, not a used one, so that I have the warranty. In fact I passed on a pretty good priced 2002 because it was out of warranty and probably would have had repair issues.
But, even general maintenance not covered by the warranty is pricey. An oil change can cost anywhere between $80-120, depending on whether you take it to the dealer or not. However, the Mini dealer says that you only have to do oil changes every 12k-15k miles. My friend who owns one recommends every 10k. So, you're not paying for oil changes as often, but you are paying more when you do. Replacing brakes all around is apparently about $700, which is not cheap. So, yes, repairs are expensive. But, then again, the cars are fun to drive.
Two other things... the run-flat tires that come on some are a great idea... but more expensive to replace than regular tires, I believe. Also, I think the Cooper S requires premium gas, which is more expensive. I'm not sure if the Cooper does, but it is probably recommended.
One positive note... I checked with my insurance and the Mini doesn't seem to be any more expensive, at least not in Tennessee. I don't think the cars are considered "suped-up sports cars" and their crash test ratings are very good.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
Max
Above all, get the car you want. A Honda Fit may be a great car for the money, but life's too short to own a great car that you don't like.
Yes, the reason Mini's are holding value is because they're well-regarded and popular. Certainly if you were only keeping a car for a year or two, then a relatively high price paid now would be recouped to some extent when you sell, so you could come out Okay. But while I don't expect used Mini prices to "crash", I do except they'll trend down quite a bit from their current hyper-inflated values. My comment is mostly that a used Mini gets you a bit of the worst of both worlds: a new car price, no new-car warranty, and used car repairs.
Sorry, but I have no idea on whether you could do better than the $14K the car is being offered at. I doubt they'd take $10K, but I'd certainly offer less than they're asking. It all depends on your negotiation skills. I would do some serious pricing research ahead of time - KBB, Edmunds, Consumer Reports, Ebay, your local paper, etc. If you look at enough sources, you quickly get a much better feel for prices. I'd probably offer $12.5K and if the asking price to selling price ratio is typical, I suspect they'll sell a $14K asking price car for about $13K. Again, this is just my shoot-from-the-hip evaluation - I'm not tracking the used Mini market.
The strongest advice I can give you is just to be cautious on a 2002. Personally, I wouldn't own one at almost any price but I'm not very tolerant of the types of squeaks, rattles, and fit/finish problems that tend to plague all-new designs the first year of production. Everyone who has owned a 2002 and later traded has said the difference in build quality is like night and day. 2003's are much better, 2004's better yet, when they finally got most of the bugs worked out.
On a 2002 or 2003, I'd be careful to check the tranny and make sure it seems to shift well - weak 5-speed trannys in the early Mini's (not S models) were a big problem - they're fine when used carefully, but don't like abuse (such as speed-shifting) at all and they're devilishing expensive to fix.
- Mark
After ordering my Mini from another dealer that's closer to me (Washington State), I wish I would have just ordered one from the Moritz dealer in Texas. After putting $1,000 down, my "expected" delivery date went from October to November! :mad: I'm quite iritated since I put the $1,000 deposit less than 24 hours after being told October. Now I'm wondering if it's going to be closer to December by the time it's all said and done! :mad:
Also, I was told some story that I'm not able to get a production number for 2+ weeks or more and couldn't give me a approximate delivery date until late August. Why the delay? The dealer in Moritz said he could have a production # for me in less than 48 hours. Any idea why the difference in time frame?
The guy I talked to was very informative and promised me I could get a car in 6-7 weeks at the latest. Also, Moritz had the best price overall. He was going to sell a car to me at MSRP plus throw in a few assessories (all floor mats, sunshade, etc.). I'm wondering if I can back out of the deal I made with the other dealer.
Talk to the Moritz Mini Dealer and tell him some chick from Washington State sent you there.
:confuse:
I ended up emailing the Mini Factory in Oxford directly. Maybe they will set the record straight.
"A highly skilled and highly motivated staff of approximately 4,500 work on three shifts seven times a week, with an average output of 3,500 cars per week"
I'm considering reordering my MCS through Moritz instead. Did you drive it home? I guess it could be a nice road trip back to Washington State.
If you look at those numbers, they are prefaced by "approximately" and "average"--the Mini assembly isn't continuos, but has fits and starts here and there.