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Comments
I own 2 Subarus (in addition to the Mini) and living in Northern California, where we 'visit' snow in the winter around Lake Tahoe, I would always take a Subaru in any occasion where I might encounter snow. Those things run on rails in the snow and there's no way the Mini would be able to match their traction and control.
But, your friend saying that FWD is better than AWD in the snow? Well... that sort of kills her credibility in assessing winter weather suitability..
The low ground clearance will hurt more than the light weight in winter weather..
The one thing about the MINI... it depreciates slowly.. This makes a new one a good buy.. but, not so good for buying late-model used.. Same goes for Hondas..
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So it needs to be in the 'small car class'. We were also looking at the Toyota Yaris.
Right now we have a Mercedes ML500 which does great in snow - but we can't compare the two as we need something small and good on gas.
The cost/size/mileage variables all favor them... and, they are likely to be very reliable..
Another advantage is they all come with skinny tires that should do well in snowy conditions....
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Now we have a choice of the following:
Identically optioned cars. One new '06 for $28,615 or the '05 with 20,000 miles for $21,800.
These are identical cars bar the year/ mileage. is it worth the extra almost 7k to buy new?
I do know the owner of the '05 and know that the miles are virtaully all highway. She used as a commuter car just as we will. Any comments??
I have been communicating with a few dealers in the Southern CA area about a new 2006 Mini cooper convertible with Automatic Transmission.
I got a quote for a silver mini cooper convertible with Automatic Transmission, premium package for $25,650.
The dealer is making me buy extra maintenance for 1 year for $1000 or an iPod interface for $800. That brings the cost to $26,645 or $26,445.
Another dealer is offering a cool blue mini cooper convertible with Automatic Transmission without any packages for approx $24,500.
1. I am quite confused about which car I should go for. I can do without the accessories but if I have to sell the cars in 2 years, would the accessories come in handy to sell the car ?
2. Also, is there anybody who has been able to buy a MINI cooper below the MSRP ?
2. Yes, but not in California. Another option is to look at a midwestern dealer or east coast dealer, and either pick up the car yourself, or have it transported (many dealers will do this for a fee, you might be able to get it thrown in for free), but it would be worth looking into--especially this time of the year, where convertibles are harder to move in the midwest.
Suzanne
I was curious how long ago you bought your Mini from Moritz? Have you had any problems getting Northwest MINI in Fife to do the maintenance on it? Are you not much of a priority since you didn't buy the car from them?
I'm a little bit worried about the service that'll receive from NW MINI since I bought the car elsewhere. I also bought from Moritz just three weeks ago, and I just got home this past Wednesday. I already have just over 4,000 miles on it after driving it home (fun drive by the way. We took our time and saw some cool sights along the way). How long do you wait to get an appointment for an oil change? Have you had any warranty or maintenance issues with your car?
Thanks in advance for any feedback you may have...
Enjoy your new car!
- Mark
You can easily anticipate when the oil change will come due by the countdown timer, so delays in routine servicing scheduling are a non-issue. But for a warranty problem that needs immediate fixing, it could be an annoyance. I never pressed them - nothing I've needed has been urgent.
For the power steering leak, they wanted the car all day and gave me a loaner. Again, whether I bought the car from them never came up.
- Mark
kid
I've got my eye on a base, automatic MINI and am wondering which options are really worth it. I'm going to buy a 2006 off the lot from one of the dealers. I'm trying to keep my costs to a minimum, since I want, not need, this car. Also, I have NEVER owned a car (even though I'm 41!) I've lived in London and New York city and have never needed one. (But I"ve been driving since I was 15). Anyway comments on the following would be much appreciated.
1. How good/bad is a sunroof?
I read some of these posts that say they rattle or something? And that they are hot and the shade doesn't block the sun...true? Is the benefit of being able to open them that much better--or rather $850 better? Does it help their resale value? I think if I sold in a few years, I'd be selling to someone in New York City, where, because of it's small size, is a very practical car and perhaps easier to sell than in other cities.
2. Is there anyway to add your own ipod connector? Assuming you get the CD option, is there anyway to buy the $15 cable yourself and attach it to the car stereo? Seems like 170-270 that Ive seen quoted for this feature aren't really worth it. I read on the net that you can usually pull a car stereo out and attach these yourself. Anyone done it?
(I know you can use a cassette plug but probably won't have that option. Also, I don't think those FM transmitters work well at all, very sketchy reception I've found.)
3. Do they feel scary on the highway next to those gigantic trucks? I'd only occasionally do long drives like this, mostly keep it to NYC, but still, I have some concern about being in truck's blind spot or being trampled and crushed by these monsters....I know about the air bags etc. Anyway, have any thoughts?
4. I'm a little confused on the snow ice situation. These posts have said contradictory things. Is the car OK as is, basic model? What if it doesn't ahve that Dynamic stability control? I might drive to Vermont ONCE during the winter. I guess common sense dictates that if there were a snowstorm, I'd just delay my trip and not drive till it's all over (although I have driven through a blizzard in an SUV--while witnessing many car wrecks along the highway the whole way)
5. Fog lamps
I thought I should get these for safety reasons but then one of the dealers said that realistically you don't drive in fog much and these are more decorative options than really that funcitonal. If you ahve lights at all they should be good in the few foggy times you may drive...true?
6. The arm rest seems ridicously small and impractical--not a good enough arm rest to be worth $200 bucks...any thoughts?
7. what is the difference between regular seats and sports seats?
8. If you get the basic stereo can you upgrade on your own with something cheaper than the Harmon Karmon or whatever it's called? Or are the holes/spaces for speakers, stereo only to fit their particular models?
9. finally, I've noticed that a few dealers have a few cars listed that are slightly below the cost if I add up all the options (on their websites). Is this a fluke? I'm looking to buy a 2006 and it's now 17 Nov....any chance that waiting 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, etc. would allow me to get a cheaper car with more options? I was told by a dealer that the 2007s come in February.
thanks in advance for any advice
tica
Secondly, wait 1-2 months. Get the 2007 model. The Base 2007 will have a bigger engine and hopefully a better dash layout as well.(plus various small glitches fixed, being a second generation Mini)
1:Sunroof is too far back to be useable, really. And they all tend to eventually leak or wear out(all cars, really).
2&8:Aftermarket is the way to go. Get something with a nice front-panel input jack or one that can be routed to the glovebox. OR, just get the glovebox connector.
3:Welcome to the world all of us face. Semis scare most drivers at first - and well, still do most of the time. Just give them a wide berth.
4:traction control is a godsend in bad weather if you aren't experienced at it. OTOH, it will also make you tend to feel more confident and go faster than you should, so just keep that in mind.
5:Fog lamps are good. Always. And they look cool.
6:I like it, but I can see how it might get in the way. Then again, I highly suspect that this will be addressed with the 2007 models.
7:some fancy trim and a bit of side padding. ie - not much, really. 2007 models are rumored to have slightly better seats as well.(ie - the basic seat isn't quite as basic)
9:The old style/design is going to depreciate fast and MSRP isn't even possible now with the 2007s coming out. Being that this s a very faddish car, you really want the 2007, IMO, as it will hold its value better.
1) I love the sunroof. This is a very personal thing. Some say they are too heavy and too hot. I only got my car in late Oct. so it's hard to say if it gets too hot in the summer. You can get them tinted though. I may do that if I find it too hot in the summer. But on a nice fall day or a nice summer night... it is great to ride with it open! I want to open it more, but it's been raining!
2) I have the Aux input and it works just great. I was going to get the iPod adapater, but at $150 vs. $450, i went with the Aux input. I just plug my iPod in and set it in the cupholder, which holds it fine... either shuffle or playlist and I'm good to go. I can charge through a 3rd party adapter (I use the Griffin iTrip, and just ignore the FM transmitter part of it). Supposedly the Aux input is easy to install, but i'm not mechanically inclined.
3) so far, not much experience here... I have driven it next to trucks. I have to say, the MCS has a lot of power in 5th and 6th gear... so it is good for passing. i imagine the MC would do fine also. i'm more worried about rock chips than truckers not seeing me. I worry about SUV drivers not seeing me!
4) I added DSC at the last minute (+$500) because I heard that all American cars were going to have it standard as a requirement in like 5 years. Figured it would help with resale if I sell it in 5 years or so.
5) don't have fog lamps. If I'd had the money, I would have bought this, just for the extra safety. I've heard people they are a great safety feature in the fog, but not completely necessary.
6) I have the armrest because I always find myself leaning that way when driving. It works fine. Not much storage and the OEM version has a habit of sliding open if you hit it or lean on it wrong. However, it feels pretty strong and I have my arm on it even when shifting, so it doesn't interfere.
7) I love the sports seats... they have a bit of a bolster on the sides of the back and seat. The regular seats are flatter. I was going to get an MC originally and add the Sport Seats, so I'm all for them. Plus I think they look better. Also, leatherette is great... the real leather apparently doesn't fare well over time and is $$$$
8) I love the stock stereo... no problems. And I have a pretty critical ear, but can't help much on aftermarket.
9) I don't think waiting will improve things much. If anything dealers may start to raise prices as their stock goes down. I would think in late Dec/early Jan., most dealers stocks are going to be slim, while they wait for the 07.
My opinion on the 07... it is supposed to be a better engine and ride, but I would be too worried about buying the new production of a car for the first two years. Supposedly the 02-03 MINIs had a fair amount of problems that have been worked out through 04-06 models. Also, although there are some things I like about the new models, I don't like the center stack design as much as the 06 model.
good luck... don't wait too long or you might not be able to be that picky about what you get.
oh yeah... just to give you a few more things to consider.... i have the hyper blue/black roof, hyper blue interior with chrome line interior (great upgrade) and the anthracite headliner (also a great upgrade). I love the look of my car. AND rubber floor mats are great... especially for wet/winter weather!
First thing: I'd strongly recommend a manual. The automatic Cooper is a CVT, and it's a dog. It's almost dangerous the way it accelerates from a standstill. I own an S, but a Manual base Cooper is also a blast to drive--although I prefer the S, the Manual base Cooper is a hoot too, and if the S wasn't an option, I'd get one in a second.
1. I love the sunroof. It's so large, in comparison to the roof, almost like having a convertible when it's open. The premium package is also desirable, and will make it easier to sell down the road.
2. Ditto on the aux/in. Very easy to install; I did it in less than 10 minutes.
3. No problems with semis--the car has such a wide stance, and low center of gravity, I get less blustering than I do with my relatively higher SUV.
4. DSC is great when you're moving, but it makes taking off scary at times, it slows you down so much. Overall it's worth it though, and will help with resale. It's fine in snow and slick weather--the only exception being deep snow.
5. Get the fog lamps if you can afford them, if for nothing else, the cosmetics. The front of the car looks significantly better with them; otherwise you have two black holes, and the car looks unfinished.
6. I have the armrest, and I like it, but it's only good rather than great. It's a little creaky; it's not very good for storage (the european parcel shelf is though, and you might want to consider getting that instead); they could have made it a bit more solid. I use it all the time though; if you're only going to use it occasionally, I'd skip it.
7. Get sport seats. Of all the things you listed, it's probably the single most important thing. The regular seats are dreadful--you feel like you're going to slip out of them; they lack support. The sport seats are good--not great, but good and are definitely worth it.
8. The H/K is significantly better than the stock stereo. Unfortunately the Mini is not the most favorable car to put an aftermarket stereo in--it's not impossible, but it's not as easy as it is in a more conventional car.
9. I don't think there's going to be a huge depreciation--supply and demand are still way far apart. There will be a hit in depreciation, but it won't be dramatic. I'd wait for the 2008's like was mentioned if you want the new model though--BMW's track record with the first Mini wasn't so hot--it took several years for all the bugs to get worked out. And don't forget, there are a number of people who like the 2006's (Myself included) over the new model; and there is a school of thought that the initial generation is going to be the one the collectors go after in 20 years...
I'd disagree that the Mini is a fad car. It has a fanatical following, unlike anything I've ever seen; here the 2006's are at the end of the cycle, and demand is as high as when the car was introduced in 2002. It's anything but a fad car--it's here to stay.
thank you all for the info.
Just a few reply comments--
1. MANUAL
unfortunately, manual is not for me. I've barely ever do it and it terrifies me. Plus I think that NYC stop-start driving, means that it's not a good choice for here. I feel like I'd get into crashes by not being able to react quickly enough. I've had 26 years practice driving automatic though!
I did test drive the basic mini and went on the Hudson freeway. I didn't notice any lag or lack of power. I'm no car expert so maybe it was there, but it certainly wasn't anything that was evident to me. So I have a feeling it just for you serious-car people out there...
2. IPOD
So HOW did you put your own iPOD in the car stereo exactly?
3. ARMREST
I like the idea of having one, but this seemed like an awful one, no storage to speak of, didn't look very sturdy and just didn't seem worth $200 or whatever it is.
4. FOG LAMPS
It seems iwth the fog lamps that they have to come from the factory and not many cars seem to have them, (at least the cheaper cars>) So I may hav eto miss those anyway.
5. SUNROOF
This still confuses me as there seem to be an equal number of totally opposing opinion in favor and not about them!
6. Now I'm just at the place where I either take the next step and get the thing, or decide that I don't 'need' a car in NYC and should save the money instead! (and just vow to take more taxis or soething)
thanks!
If you're not familar with it, CVT stands for continuos variable transmission--it doesn't have gears, like a standard automatic does. When you drive it, you'll notice no gear shifts. In theory, it sounds great, and it works relatively well on some cars, but it's a disaster of a transmission on the Mini. Just wait when you need a quick burst of acceleration--either starting from a standstill, or on the highway merging--and it's not there. It's borderline dangerous.
I had some work done on my car, and was given the auto (CVT) manual for a couple of days as a loaner. I talked with the salesman about how bad I thought it was--and he agreed. It's the least desirable Mini to own...
On the other hand, the 2007 will have a conventional automatic, with gears--and the reviews I've read have been very favorable, especially in comparison to the older CVT. Again, it's your car, but if you're definitely getting an automatic, I'd definitely get the 2007 (or 2008 if you can wait that long).
As for the ipod, there are two easy ways to do this (there are several more ways, but they are more difficult). You can have dealer installed ipod adapter, which is expensive, 150 bucks or so NOT including instillation, but has the advantage of being controlled through the steering wheel. Or you can buy and install a cheap aux/in yourself--that's what I did--or have the dealer do it (albeit for an outrageous fee, considering it takes all of 10 minutes to install. You could also try to negotiate a free installation--the aux/in is only 40 bucks or so (I actually got mine on sale for thirty), and it's so easy to install, I doubt the dealer would want to lose a sale over it). I've also got Sirius, and the dealer installed ipod interface--the one controlled via the steering wheel--isn't an option with Sirius. The aux/in is though, and it works great. The only downside is you have to control your music through the ipod, but you can use anything in that aux/in--it doesn't have to be an ipod.
thanks for that info..hmmm...well all this gears and CVT info is definitely boy knowledge--You know, like bugs, tractors and electrical stuff
Does anyone know how much more expensive the base price on the 2007 will be?
All in all, if you're going for a Cooper, and an automatic, I'd strongly recommend the 2007 over the 2006--you're going to have a much better transmission, and for the other goodies you're getting, as well as an overall improvement in the car, that extra 600 is worth it. Personally I'd wait for the 2008 if I could, but I'd be more comfortable with a 2007 with a standard automatic transmission than a 2006 with the CVT. You'll also do better with depreciation when it comes time to sell, which will offset some of that 600 bucks. Just my 2 cents....
The other advantage of ordering the 2007 is that you'll be able to order EXACTLY what you want, and personalize it to your liking--that's half the fun of getting a Mini! There are some very cool new interior options (many of which are simply choices rather than extras--you can set up a unique interior, and have it not cost you a dime extra).
Okay.... I had to say something in support of the MINI with the CVT transmission. I have a 2006 Mini Cooper S with the CVT transmission. Both my husband and I drive it, and we haven't noticed anything that I would consider "dangerous" in the 6,000 miles we have put on it. I've had previous cars with automatics (Honda, Audi, VW, Porsche, etc.) and think the transmission in my MINI (manufactured in July 2006) shifts good and hard when put into "Sport" mode or when you stomp on the gas pedal in the "normal" mode. However, occasionally I've noticed the "lag" when starting off at a stand-still. Again... I wouldn't label it as dangerous. One bummer thing is that you won't get as good of gas mileage with the automatic. I average about 28 mpg with all around driving. The highest MPG I got was 31 and that was strictly highway speeds (60-80+ MPH).
I hope this helps,
Brenda
P.s. Anyone else out there own a MCS with the CVT transmission care to comment?
My new love's specs: 2006 Mini Cooper S, Hyper blue w/white top & bonnet stripes, chrome exterior & chrome interior, Premium/Sport/Convenience/& Cold Weather pkgs, black panther English leather interior, cockpit chrono pack, Harmon Kardon stereo, etc. We've already racked nearly 6,000 miles on it. I had a nice long road trip driving it home from out of state this September... I guess it's not as new anymore.
As far as the CVT goes its far from being dangerous. Again we are talking about NYC roads, you are not overtaking cars on a twisty 2 lane roads in the country. It does have its quirks, however having "gears" is no guarantee of it being better. For example my Audi quattro WITH gears lurches forward after a stop due to all the intertia of the quattro and transmission. I'm not saying that the 2007 won't be better than the CVT, I'm saying that I would reserve judgement until driving it.
My recomendation is test drive the 2006 in the city and see how you like it. If you are ok with it and can get a "deal" or don't want to wait go for it. Also remember when you are inching along and 1 MPH it does not matter if you have a 500HP or a 50HP engine.
thanks for these comments. I'm no car pro so all these subtelties, I don't think I will catch. I barely know what a gear is for goodness sake! All I know is that driving is much better than schlepping around town!
I'm going to Texas and am going to test drive one in Houston I think. I saw a couple of Minis in houston when I was home for T-giving last week. I was surprised to see them in Houston of all places where the last thing you need is a small car. Interesting.
thanks
As a bonus new automatic also is equipped standard with paddle shifters--you may never use them, but they're very easy to use if you choose to, and alot of fun to boot.
Again, it's your choice, but I'd personally wait for the 2007 and at least test the 2007 versus the 2006 before purchasing, but that's just me. But this does come from someone who significantly prefers the 2006 Mini models over the 2007s with the only exception being the Mini 2006 CVT and the 2007 Mini automatic. If you buy the 2006 without test driving a 2007 first, don't ever test drive the 2007--you'll end up kicking yourself...:D
I agree that manual transmission is tough for Manhattan traffic -- it's tough when the traffic is stop-and-go and you are forever shifting between neutral and first. After one Friday with really bad traffic, I now wait until the Friday rush hour traffic clears before I leave Manhattan. (I bought the manual because I enjoy driving one and I spend a lot of time outside the city anyway, but if it's for pure city driving, I would think long and hard before buying a manual.)
I have the dealer (Mini of the Hamptons) add the aux jack and it's GREAT for ipod. I also have my Garmin GPS (with a separate bluetooth phone connected) plugged into this aux jack and can listen to the GPS directions/listen to people on the phone through the car's stereo! This definitely beats the $750 bluetooth car kit that dealers charge for a BMW X5 that does not do GPS/MP3 music, etc.
Hope my $0.02 help!
My new love's specs: 2006 Mini Cooper S, Hyper blue w/white top & bonnet stripes, chrome exterior & chrome interior, Premium/Sport/Convenience/& Cold Weather pkgs, black panther English leather interior, cockpit chrono pack, Harmon Kardon stereo, etc. We've already racked nearly 6,000 miles on it. I had a nice long road trip driving it home from out of state this September.
***
That's the big deal, and why old Minis won't be collectable like they were. The new ones are going to be better and will hold their value like the original series did(and will for several more years until the 3rd gen comes around in 2012 or so.
It just hit me,,,What are you driving? The MCS, and the convertibles have paddle shifters--these are automatic transmissions with gearing and NOT CVTs. I forgot about this. To my knowledge, none of the CVT's ever had paddle shifters, so you have the automatic tranny, which performs better than the CVT. I'm not sure how a CVT would incorporate a paddle shifter.
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Where you may be right is where BMW goes with this in the future--there is the Traveller concept, coming in 2008, and an AWD MINI in the works for 2008 as well (this isn't a track monster, but more of an inclement weather type vehicle, which really is a shame). BMW has also ratcheted production up a notch-with time, the market may become saturated, and with the different models coming out, diluted. Time will tell...
Does anyone have the similar experience? Is that possible that the car got some damage during the transportation to dealership?
sigh, brand new car becomes a refurbished one. :sick:
Please give me some suggestion on this issue?
Thanks a lot!
Few questions:
1- Are dealers still insisting on sticker price?
2- What is the maintenance interval (5,000 miles? 10,000 miles?) Mini dealers are few, and I imagine it'd be a pain if I had to go for an oil change every 5000.
3- Are you able to comfortably fit a large dog in the back of your Cooper? Almost all of the reviews of the Mini discuss just the driving experience, and nothing about practical issues like cargo hauling abilities. It is a hatchback, afterall.
2: 10000 miles.
3: 2006 Cooper fits a 50 lbs Siberian husky. Don't bring much else though...
The MINI is awesome though. You won't regret it, there is no car like it.
2. 10,000 miles for first oil change (although I'd do the first one at 5,000, next one at 10,000, then go every 10,000).
3. With the rear seats down, it'll be fine. With the rear seats up, forget about it.
The S is defiantely worth it. Ten years from now, nobody will want the base model by comparison(same is true with most cars - always get the better engine/suspension). I'd recommend the suspension upgrades. Anything that adds hard value to it(like the grille-mounted lights and such) and improves the handling. The sunroof, leather, and so on... not really important. Plus, the "leather" they use is pleather - it's leather bits/powder that's formed onto a cloth/vinyl backing and textured to look like leather. Not any better than the stock cloth/vinyl stuff. Mercedes, BMW, and all of the rest use this stuff all the time.
If you want real leather, you can get the entire interior done for abot $1000-$1200 yourself - with stuff that will last 30-40 years.
You can ditch the sport package and the luxury package as well - and add the stability control, better suspension and A/C and such seperately. And save a couple of thousand dollars. Auto dimming mirrors and fancy wheels are a waste of money. (the stock non-runflats also handle almost the same(the car is seriously underwieght for its tires as it is) and are less money to replace)
I personally like the dark green/dark blue with lots of chrome look myself, but that's up to you. I sent an email off to BMW about the possiblity of adding a chromed roof option as well - we'll see if that's possible
One thing, though...
You should change the oil when you get it immediately - like at 30-50miles, then follow a normal oil change routine. Contrary to what the manufacturer states, you want to drive the car carefully but rev it progressively higher during the first few days of its life - to help it break-in faster. Then dump the oil, because it will have tons of grit in it that you don't want circulating for a few months.
This is what all professional racers do with their engines and it works - but almost all manufacurers don't point out that 75% of the break-in takes place in the first 50 miles or so - because they can't guarantee that the owners will actually change the oil after quickly breaking it in. Blame the lawyers for this one. They recommend you baby it because this creates almost no major break-in, but also, more importantly, creates almost no bits of metal either(and no chance of anything breaking if you forget to change the oil for a few thousand miles).
*note* if you do a quick-break-in, you MUST dump the oil. It's also a good thing to do because you never know who was test-driving the vehicle before you got it.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Ignore the hype on the page - the pictures are the key.(and this is how you also break-in a typical replacement engine if your car needs one, though most rebuilders do this for you before it gets out the door)
*edit*
This has to be done under load - actual driving. Revving a new engine to redline with no load can cause damage(you need engine compression to make the rings seat). Technically it's not the revving, but the winding down while in gear that seats the rings quickly. But it's hard to NOT rev a Mini during the first few days
Circuit City won't be able to do it in radio form--the new 2007 MINI is set up so that aftermarket stereos are virtually impossible to install--the radio is integrated into the car in such a way that its impossible to swap headunit without destroying the center stack of the car. If you're looking at a 2006 however, the headunit can be swapped out. I wouldn't take it to circuit city though--have it done by a good sound shop if you go this route.
You could use a portable XM unit in the 2007 though--the mini comes standard with an AUX/IN, and if you don't want to go the Sirius route, this would work with an autokit type set up.
One other thing is that if you have a 2005, you can get an aftermarket system installed, and you should be able to get XM instead. You'll want to go to a good audio shop thats had experience with Minis though--don't go the Circuit City or Best Buy route. It probably wouldn't cost you anymore than the Sirius install at the dealer; in fact it may be cheaper. Just make sure you go somewhere reputable that have worked with a Mini before.
That's pretty darn good, especially for the more powerful S.
I have my eye on an '06 manual in Columbus, OH. Right now our dealer is pretty flush with stock (about 20, half 07, half 06). I really want a stick (dealer says no base sticks until much later), and I have a moral objection to paying sticker for a car, so I was thinking an '06 might be for me. How much should I offer not to get laughed out of the dealer? $300 over invoice? $500? does anyone think this is a stupid idea?