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However, an ordered unit is an easy number in the books and has no associated costs attached to it.
Just say what you want to pay (within reason) for an ordered vehicle and be prepared to walk if they won't meet your price.
However, the individual line items become irrelevant if you negotiate an 'out the door' (OTD) price. Meaning the price you pay to drive it away except for tax, tag and title, the cost of which neither you nor the dealer have any control over.
If you end up negotiating an OTD price of say $25K, it doesn't matter if the delivery charge is $10K, the document fee is $14K, and the Jeep is $1K. As long as you're happy with the total, that's all that matters.
Your vehicle now has an official identity, rather than just being an order. Whether you buy it or not, it will be built and it will have that VIN (Vehicle Identification Number).
Have a ton of other questions, as well, as to how to equip if I do order...will post those in the appropriate forum(if I can find it!)
"Depends on the attitude of the dealer and the current state of his business. The longer he holds possession of a unit the more it costs him, hence the desire to shift existing stock.
However, an ordered unit is an easy number in the books and has no associated costs attached to it.
Just say what you want to pay (within reason) for an ordered vehicle and be prepared to walk if they won't meet your price."
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Actually don't worry about not being a true Jeepster! The Rubicon only came into being by being inspired by guys who did their own mods to make their jeeps more capable. These guys would say real jeeps are built not bought!
I do admire someone doing their own work and especially cool is fabricating your own parts. In this way the Jeep world is a little like Harleys
Every vehicle has limitations just stay within yours and have fun. You'll have fun doing the mods and talking about them with fellow wrenchers.
Personally I own a Rubicon---I've wrenched for a living all my life so I don't mind someone else doing the work! ha ha!
Enjoy your Wrangler
I called another dealer some 50 miles away and they said I can order a new unit and can use affiliate pricing. They really didn't sound to sure on the phone though, "I'm pretty sure you can" the salesperson told me. Does anyone have any information.
Just a couple of points I'd take issue with. First, it really is unrealistic to expect a new model from any manufacturer to be widely available at invoice pricing. Second, it's possible to buy a Wrangler at or below invoice right now. It all depends on the geographical location of the dealer and the business model he's using.
Finally, whether you buy at $1000 below invoice or $1000 over MSRP makes no difference to DC. Volume of sales is all DC cares about, and at the moment they can't keep up with demand.
Do I sense some kind of personal issue here?
In general terms, I can't imagine why any manufacturer of any product would want to sell it for less than the optimum return. If you can sell all you can make, and there's a ten to twelve week delay in fulfilling current orders, why would you hand out rebates or reduce the price? All that would happen is that the number of orders would increase and the delay would lengthen, while reducing the income to the manufacturer. The time to reduce prices is when supply starts to exceed demand, not the other way around.
Anyhow, I still don't understand what DC is doing to ""screw" these potential buyers into the ground".
I don't think so, it's just that I disagree with you.
I try to see the whole picture rather than just the consumer's or the manufacturer's point of view. The economics are quite simple. If you want a product now that's in short supply/high demand don't expect to get it for peanuts. If you'd rather pay a lesser price, then wait awhile until demand drops/availability increases.
Depreciation is strongly linked to initial purchase price. Reducing it, either by a lower MSRP, rebates, employee pricing etc., etc., will immediately lower the corresponding resale values. Rolling over the negative equity from previous vehicles, and financing for long periods at high interest rates, have far more to do with being 'upside down' than purchasing at MSRP.
Dealers will happily sell you a Jeep at invoice when they can't sell one for more, or when it makes sense to do so in order to increase their volume of sales. I support the right of any dealer to decide his own selling price, just as I support the consumer's right to pay only the amount he thinks is reasonable.
However, the dealer is in a much more unenviable position than the consumer. After all, nobody has to buy a Jeep, but the dealer must sell them if he's to remain in business. It doesn't take long for the dealer to meet the demands of the marketplace. I've yet to hear of a customer being forced to buy a vehicle, and certainly not at a price he wasn't prepared to pay.
Finally, it is true that I'm not getting your last point: "Maybe when Chrysler is bought out and these massive concessions kick in these Wrangler dealers will be selling shoes." What are the massive concessions you refer to, and how are they going to affect Jeep dealers so negatively?
Terry
Chrysler has a plethora of crappy models that need incentives to move, and they oblige by laying them on thick..
It is the free market at work.. Learn to love it..
Heck.. I don't think Mac even asked you to buy a car from him..
regards,
kyfdx
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With that said, I can not for the life of me understand the comments made on this forum. My first reply is simply to those posters who are angry, mad, upset, and downright rude about dealers in general, Chrysler as a manufacturer, simply because a dealer will not sell them a Wrangler at what they think they should pay.
As I mentioned above, we are the top Wrangler dealer in the country. With that said, you must understand that every dealer has a certain number of Wranglers allocated to them based on their past wrangler sales.
For us, that number is large. For others, that number may be small. However, that is not significant. If a dealer has a vehicle they know they can sell for X dollars... then why is it wrong for the delaer to ask, or therefore, demand x dollars? They know what they are allocated, what they may or may not be getting in, and they demand for such vehicles. If you ask to pay invoice, the dealer has every right to say NO, because they know 10 minutes after you leave, a customer will offer sticker.
Now... with all of this said, I do NOT advocate selling above sticker. However... for someone to be as frustrated as some of you seem to be simply because a dealer refuses to sell the car you want for what you want to pay is absolutly ridiculas.
You .. as the customer... have a decision. either pay what the dealer is asking, or try and find it someplace else. If, after some time... you can not find a dealer willing to sell you the vehicle at your price (which is what i suspect) you again have a choice. Pay what the dealer is asking, or simply wait. Over time... the price will go down however it may take 6 months or 3 years. as the previous poster said.. its about supply and demand.
Lastly, to the other poster who made some ridiculas comment about dealers losing holdback, etc. Dream on. Every manufacturer has this, including your foreign makes. This is a guarenteed built in profit that is part of the business model of a dealer. Some of you have the attidtude that ALL dealers have an obligation to lose money so you can drive your car of choice. Dream on.
Hopefully you all understand my comments and if you don't, I am sorry to let you know you will be on this forum 1 year from now with the same frustrations as you have now. Good luck living with THAT stress!
Wow Tommyboy, I didn't realize Jerry headed such a large group. I'm afraid I can only speak for myself. Are you a friend of Jerry's? I only ask because this is your first post since you became a member last month, and you have a writing style very similar to his (almost identical in fact!). You also seem to have his sense of frustration and anger, at least on this subject. Perhaps you're related then? Twins maybe? Do tell!
Oh, and just for the record, I'm not a car dealer (or even a former car dealer). I just find that I get a better idea of the big picture if I try to see both sides. Rather than just railing against the system, I find it more constructive to examine it in detail so that I can see what may be possible (there's always a way ).
Want a cheap Jeep, want it now, want it on your doorstep? Nope, can't be done. So, what to do? Stamp your foot? How did that work for you? Sore foot but no Jeep huh? How about changing one of the parameters? Expensive Jeep? No, that'll hurt more than your foot. Wait until supply matches demand? It didn't sound like patience is your strong suit, so scrub that one. Final option, go to where the Jeeps are cheap. I gave you a link to a previous post with details of an invoice purchase, did you check it out? It does sound like the most agreeable option to get what you want right now.
That is what you want isn't it, a cheap Jeep and not just a platform to rant at car manufacturers in general and DC in particular? There may be a forum for that here on CarSpace, but really, this one isn't it.
Terry
That will work perfectly Terry, as I don't have one to sell you.
Now you're just being silly. :shades:
Now I'm starting to get worried.
Kind of like when the political scapegoat of the week hears that he has the full support of the President. :surprise:
Don't take it to heart, I think it's poster singular, rather than posters.
I do believe that most people here, while thinking it would be nice to get something for nothing, are intelligent enough to realize that there is no free lunch.
Terry :P
Your Edmunds bio says otherwise. Yesterday's post was your first and this is your second.
The Wrangler is the new "gotta have toy" in America thus these dealers are squeezing every buck out of the situation.
I'm glad you appreciate the popularity of the Wrangler, but it's not exactly the new kid on the block. It's been around in one form or another since the 1940s.
One can't buy direct from the factory. If we could there would be no need for greedy car dealers.
Can't argue with that, but the extension of that premise doesn't really sit too well with some of your other arguments. For instance, here would be no incentive for the manufacturer to sell at anything other than MSRP. I don't see any benefit to the consumer by turning a competitive marketplace into a monopoly situation for one supplier.
All one has to do is practice general law for a couple of years to conclude the above mentioned. I have, and believe me......
LOL, you're funny!
Look, we're not really on topic for this discussion and while I'm quite happy to continue lobbing this stuff back at you, I don't really see that much point to it. I'm pretty sure I'm just making your blood pressure higher than it ought to be, and I can't take your arguments with the seriousness that you seem to think they warrant.
Why not start a discussion specifically to cover these issues? I'm not sure quite where the best place would be but I'm sure one of the hosts would be happy to help.
I just did, and you can do the same, by mousing over your screen name. It currently shows you having a total of three posts with this being the third. These bio pop-ups are a new feature and have gained a reputation for being annoying rather than inaccurate, but I suppose it's possible.
As for being correct all the time, far from it . However, I do disagree with you on many of the points you've made, and where I've disagreed with you I've tried to explain why. For instance, if you remove any competition for selling a product by reducing the availability to be direct from the manufacturer only, I see no reason why the manufacturer wouldn't sell at the maximum price possible. Automobile manufacturers in particular are not known for their altruism.
I know that this isn't your view, as you've implied that we'd be better off buying directly from the factory rather than from 'greedy' car dealers. I just don't understand why you think this would be so, because you've haven't given any explanation.
First, we are off topic and.. I check these boards to simply familarize myself with the marketplace and.. to see what my competition is doing. With that said.. i do take it personal when moronic comments are made.. such as If we could there would be no need for greedy car dealers.
Look at the Jeep Lineup and.. educate yourself before you make such statements. First.. the Liberty as overdue for a facelift and... therefore.. in the last 12 - 18 months.. it has become a loser. Most Liberties sold are either at $0 profit, or a slight loser. The Commander and Grand Cherokee are on the fence.. depending on the incentive and.. number of days in inventory. Typically.. a dealer can lose alot of money on a $45,000 Commander if he has it on his floor plan for over 90 days. The Compass and the Patriot are brand new, and.. the profit margin on each is very small, if not insignificant.
That brings me to the wrangler. If in fact the dealer knows this is a profit generator... possibly $2,000 - $4,000 per Wrangler sold... he has an obligation to his buisness to generate as much profit as possible to simply recoup any money lost on other models sold.
Which, in turn brings me to my second point. If the average profit on a 2007 Wrangler is $3,000... and it is a middle of the road Wrangler ($25,000).. the dealer is only making 12% on his upfront investment. This does not include any possible advertising costs, interest paid on his existing floor plan, etc. I would urge you to educate yourself on the profit margin of typical items sold at target, Walmart, Home Depot, etc and you will find the margins are much higher, sometimes exceding 200% or 300%.
But.. because this is the vehcile you want.. you again think the dealer has an obligation to sell it to you at YOUR price. wrong. He has an obligation to sell it at the most profit he can, simple as that.
Obviously you have a sore tooth regarding dealers and.. you think they are all money hungry vultures waiting to wipe out your savings account. Although some dealers may operate this way, most dealers do not. They are more interested in earning your business, building a relationship with you and your family, and selling you 20 cars not just 1.
However... by your statements, you either have not purchased many vehicles in your lifetime, because your obvious lack of experience, or... you are simply the A Typical customer who goes from delerhsip to dealerhsip getting thrown out by every salesman he meets because you offend them or.. think you are entitled to insult them for your own self gratification.
Now to get back on topic... I will let you know.. that this whole supply and demand issue will not get any better in the near future. Chrysler is poised to buildout the 2007 model year because of the backlogged sold orders already placed. So... if you are thinking of getting one.. and want one this year.. you best act quick or you will be waiting until fall.
:-)
(giantsin06, I could easily suggest that you use grammar check as well, but we're talking about vehicles rather than spelling/grammar/syntax)
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Foster Jeep was really easy to work with and more than fair in getting this deal done.
I have been looking at a new vechicle. I was at the new york auto show yesterday and I liked the wrangler. I like the Rubicon 4x4 Unlimited 4 door Wrangler. On the jeep website, It was listed $28 and change. With the options I want. Automatic transmission and Power package (lame that we have to pay for it). It went over $31!!! $31!!! There's no f-ing way I would pay that much for a jeep!! They dont hold the value!! And the fender was cheap plastic!!! Geezz what were they thinking. If i get with the hard-top. It costs even more!!
I like the wrangler. I dont think its worth that much for it. I wouldn't mind paying $25!!
Anyone having problems with their vinyl top? leak or anything? I'm looking at the tacoma! Looks I'm going steps towards the pick up truck. How much are you guys paying?
That's a new one! :shades:
If your looking to stay close to 25, get a X model with the S package, which equals Sahara minus colored fenders, with Auto, 17", Power Stuff for a sticker of $26,200. $25k negotiated and no complaints.
A fully loaded Tacoma costs north of $30k, theres no way I'd pay that considering you can get full size trucks for that today.
Buy whatever you want.
Oh how I wish DC would track me down and remunerate me for my posts. However, if they did I'm not sure how Edmunds would ever find out.
If someone comes onto a Jeep board to unreasonably discredit the product it's not surprising they tend to receive a negative response. However, if you want to discuss a genuine Wrangler problem I don't think you'll find someone trying to dismiss it out of loyalty to the marque. If you post that you're cross shopping a Tacoma and a Rubicon, or intimate that Wranglers don't hold their value, it's likely that you won't be taken too seriously (at least by me).
Finally, it's interesting that people making a negative post like yours are often first time posters who joined the very same day. Regular posters, or lurkers that have been here a little while, can usually see that there's a reasonable balance here, and certainly no blind loyalty to DC.
I'm curious, why did you join yesterday just to make that post?
Dude, if I'm going to get truck, I want it hooked up! Not a lame base vehicle!
The Ribucon kicks [non-permissible content removed] but the price is really itching my skin!
Guys, not too be mean or rude, The Wrangler will hold the value if get all the option that can ever dish out. and beside, they have so many of them out there!!
I dont know, I need to test drive it to see it better i guess.
but anyone have problems with the soft top leaking?