Lexus LS 400/LS 430 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

flatlander · November 2004

I timed out while editing my initial entry. I am looking for statistics rather than "You'll sleep better with a warranty" advice. What are the odds of using items covered under a Platinum or LuxuryCare Plus warranty package on a 2002 LS430 with Modern Luxury features in the next 5 years? A 6 year/ 75K add on warranty will cost about $1750. I have no reason to believe that there is anything wrong with this car at this time.

gteach26 · December 2004

Here are the details of my just-purchased lease in case anyone is interested..

2005 LS430 Modern Lux with Smart Access
36 months/12K miles per year
Retail price $62,489
Cap Cost $54552
Residual $35562
Money Factor 0.00188

Monthly Payment $738 (includes 6% tax)

Total due at signing $1662 (Break down: 1st payment, $200 down payment,$495 dealer fee plus a couple other minor things to total $1662).

All done through Lexus Financial Services

ls430nsc · December 2004

I have an opportunity to purchase an '04 with 6,000 miles. The car has the luxury package - NAV, etc. and the sports package with 18' wheels. A Lexus dealership is offering the car for $50,000. Opinions, feedback?

paulrl · December 2004

I don't think a good price,check this I just bought 2005 LS430 with must have option
1 Premium Package
2 Smart Access
3 Trunk Net,Wheel log,Trunk mat
4 18 inch-rim
Call this Park Place Lexus in Grapevine Tx,
Tel.817 4163100
MSRP $59144 I paid only $52998 on 11/30/2004
your 2004LS430 Even with 6000 miles but it one year old.

garyh1 · December 2004

I think Paul may be comparing apples to oranges. The "Premium" Package that he apparently bought is very different from the "Luxury" packages that include navigation system, upgraded sound system, radar cruise control, and many other upgrades. The question is, what "Luxury" package (Modern, Custom or Ultra) does the car have (MSRP range from $4,980 to $13,570), what "Sports" package (MSRP $220 to $1,920), and what other options?

IMHO, you might have a good deal if you are looking at a fully loaded car, or might not, depending on what the car would retail for new. And if you are buying rather than leasing, and plan on keeping the car for a long time, the one year depreciation may be relatively unimportant.

ls430nsc · December 2004

Hi Gary!
The car is equipped with the Modern Luxury package and the polished 18" wheels. I'm not sure of anything else. The MSRP new should be around 61,500 for an '05. I'm selling a 94 LS400 with 170,000 that I bought with 32,000 miles 8 years ago, so I'm in the car for the long run.
This appears to work for me as the car is exactly the color I want both inside and out.
I wonder if this is a good deal or should I keep looking?
Thanks to you and Paul for your input.

garyh1 · December 2004

Here are my thoughts: assuming you are correct on the options, looks like they are offering you about $4,900 off of a good deal on an '05 (based on my personal experience and recent posts, current best deals seem to running 10-11% off of list). Assuming the car is in otherwise-perfect condition, that sounds fairly reasonable to me for 1 year's depreciation and a few thousand miles-- but of course another $1,000 off would be even better. If the car has any other options (Smart Key?-- MSRP $1,000), the current offer would be even more attractive.

Of course, you have to get comfortable with the past history of the car (why is it available for sale from the dealer-- repossessed, demo, owner's wife's car?-- and make them confirm the story with a Carfax report). That's an issue you have to deal with with a used car that doesn't come into play with a new one.

If the dealer is certifying it for the Lexus CPO program, although it might not add much more time (3 yrs from your date of purchase) to the new car warranty, it would get you more mileage (goes to 100,000). That could be meaningful if you expect to put on more than 44,000 miles in the next 3 years. And make sure your dealer agrees (in writing) to treat you like a new car purchaser in terms of loaner cars, pick up/drop off service, etc., if you intend to use them for warranty/maintenance work.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do.

nvbanker · December 2004

Smokin' deal, gteach, and I'm glad I ran across this, cause this is actually less than I pay for my Gator. Should I retreat back to a Sedanola when my lease is up on the Gator, I will seriously look into the LS. I think it is the best Sedan out there. Congrats. You have uncommon good taste, IMO! Stay in touch, ok?

da Banker.

rgsw · December 2004

Offer him 48K and see what happens. Looks like a good car. The extended warranty would cost the dealer about $1500 plus, I've been told. You can always add the EW later if you want to up to 36K and/or 36 months, the limits vary, check with the dealer if you are interested in the EW.

drpartagas · December 2004

A PA dealer offered me a 2004 LS 430 listed at $67,700.00 (Ultra lux package,,,all bells and whistles) at 10,300.00 below sticker price. Flint/black combo. I can buy it at $57,550.00.

Is it better to buy a newer vehicle 2005 with a 10% discount and with a lesser modern lux package as opposed to purchasing the new 2004 alternative vehicle?

I need an objective well-reasoned opinion.I'm looking for the best value over time.

If the 2005 is a better option, I live in PA. Can any of you ladies and gentlemen provide a dealership...where I can get 10% discount off new vehicle.

PA NJ MD are all possible.

THanks-Pete

I buy the vehicle, keep it for 4-5 years.

dgbob · December 2004

from my experience you got a great deal! where did you lease the car? I'd like the name of the dealer. thanks

gteach26 · December 2004

Lexus of Palm Beach. The "big boys" around here in South Florida, JM Lexus, Lexus of Kendall, Countyline Lexus, just didn't have the right color combo, and their prices were higher across the board. For some reason LOPB really wanted a sale on this particular day. They even drove the vehicle to my house to do the car presentation and the paperwork.

gbeer · December 2004

It's getting time to turn in my 2rd leased GS300.
I drove an '01 LS430 at a dealer this weekend and was floored by how well it drove. My last LS Drive was the '90 LS400 that I sold in '96 after 120,000 mi. The difference is amazing- no wonder Car & Driver called it #1 over the other 5 $70,000 luxury cars.

Any way, I got a lease quote from my local Santa Monica CA Lexus dealership (thru costco).
Quote on a 4 yr, 15,000 mi/yr Basic '05 LS was $709/ mo including 8.25% tax ($655 no tax) and $1,200 drive off (Lexus motor credit). I was told this was $1,200 over invoice. Residual is $27,775. I also priced the modern luxury package w/ keyless entery. The quote was $830/ mo. with tax and the residual was LESS, $27,196.

Question- How could this be? A lower residual for a more expensive $5,000 option? It's certainly contributing to the 17% higher payment.

Secondly, I originally was considering buying a used '01 or '02 LS for say $31,000- $34,000, even bidding on Ebay to get one from say Texas. But according to my calculations, including depreciation, and $0 down, the monthly costs are pretty close, if not the same, not to mention the prospects of major service costs at 60-100,000 mi.

In addition after looking at the residuals, above, I think that based upon the asking prices of used '01's that the $27,775 residual may be lower than the car's value in 4 years and one could possibly make money selling a leased car.

Question: Why would someone buy a used luxury car with 45,000- 60,000 mi instead of leasing new if the differnce is $50- $100/ month.
thanks,
glen

ls430nsc · December 2004

Hi Gary!
New deal - $57,500 for new '05 LS430. Modern Luxury package and 18' wheels. The '04 had been wrecked, so I gave it up. Feedback?
Thanks.

garyh1 · December 2004

I'm glad you got the straight scoop on the pedigree of the '04 before you fell any more in love with it.

My purchase on 10/31/04 (when '05s had only been out around here for a couple of weeks!) was an '05 with Modern Luxury, Smart Key, 18" wheels, Preferred Accessory Package. List $62,734. I had it out-the-door for $55,987 (discount of 10.76%, $1,760 over invoice), with no additional charges of any kind other than taxes and tags (be careful that they don't try to stick you at the end with an additional "processing or "advertising" charge). I would think that should be doable again by 12/31 if you can find a dealer that has what you want in stock. You know they're going to be hungry for that last sale of the month/year. I suggest do your shopping around and stay on top of what's in stock, and be ready to pounce at the end of the month- or earlier if they'll meet your price. If your local dealers are not willing to negotiate lower and you are willing to consider working with an out of town dealer, email me (see my Profile) and I can check for you on what is available up here. There's a lot of competition here with 6 dealers in the Washington, DC metro area!

Finally, also consider whether or not you want the 18" wheels; there are plusses and minuses. Coming out of a BMW and 2 MBs, I personally opted for the slight performance improvement with the 18". But see Steve's excellent summary of the issue in #6631 on the Lexus LS forum.

ls430nsc · December 2004

One other question before making a purchase decision - what is your opinion on the Sports suspension? Did you consider it when you made your purchase? Thanks for the reference to the 17" vs 18" wheel discussion. Maybe the 18" wheels are sufficient to get a little better handling?
Thanks

garyh1 · December 2004

I did not drive a EuroSports suspension. From what I heard or read on the LS forum, many people thought it gave an inferior ride. I did drive both 17" and 18" wheels, and I think the 18" cornered a bit better and gave a little more road feel, which I liked. I wouldn't have done this on an '04, when the 18" tires were "summer" tires, but Lexus switched to "all season" 18" tires on the '05. Hopefully, these will last longer than the previous "summer" tires, but only time will tell.

The other choice is to go with the Ultra package for MSRP $11,320-13,570 more, and get the Adaptive Variable Suspension which lets you choose 4 levels of firmness. But that was more than I wanted to spend, and I didn't care about decking out the rear seat the way the Ultra comes.

bartalk2 · December 2004

Is that a genuine factory to dealer incentive; if so, how much, or is it just advertising hype? Is one more likely to get a better deal in December than at other times?

cove148 · December 2004

Never thought I would lease, but is this a good deal? Appreciate any advice.

Lease quoted in Texas on a 2005 with a MSRP of $58924, 48 months, 15Kmiles/year, $880 down, $760 a month. Pricing is part of the Dec to remember program.

Again appreciate your thoughts..

gteach26 · December 2004

...but around here in my neck of the woods (South Florida) that would be a decent 36 month deal not a 48 month one. If you're in an area with little competition though you just might have to settle for that.

If you have the Cap cost, residual value and money factor on this deal I'd suggest you post your figures in the "Lease questions ask here" forum here on Edmunds and let Carman run the numbers to see if they are fair. Here's a link to that forum (I hope I did this right!!)

Car_man, "Lease Questions - Ask Here" #15266, 12 Dec 2004 11:54 am

Still.. to my untrained eye I'd think there's room to move downward price-wise on that deal. Based on the MSRP you mentioned, you are looking at a base vehicle with the premium package-- from what I've seen here locally those vehicles are WIDELY available and dealers are eager to move them out.

Also... congrats on choosing the LS, it is a wonderful car! I've had mine just two weeks (see post #162 to see my lease details) and am amazed every time I sit in the car!

garyh1 · December 2004

See this posting from another Edmunds forum on Lease Questions (#14866) in response to a question posed by proud new LS owner gteach26:

Unlike many of the advertising campaigns that tout special holiday deals, Lexus actually backs up its "December to Remember" promotion with very attractive lease and finance rates. The LS 430, which normally does not have any sort of support on it at all has both special financing and lease rates available on it this month. Lexus Financial Services' 3 year, 12,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value for the 2005 Lexus LS 430 Custom Luxury should be .00165 and 56%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its Tier 1 rates. In lieu of this special lease program, it is providing 3.76% financing for up to 5 years for Tier 1 customers.

hpowders · December 2004

I was offered $595 plus tax for 48 months, 48,000 miles last summer for a new 2004 with premium and smart key but I turned it down: $58,349 MSRP, $53,309 negotiated price. $760 is way too much!

Perhaps last July was part of Lexus' "Summer To Remember?" The point is I think a savvy shopper can find great deals all year round.

ljslaw1 · December 2004

Previously posted my numbers:

Modern Luxury package (Mark Levinson audio, nav smart key, etc.)$64,000 sticker

36 mos. @735 per month (includes tax)

12k miles

$1500 down

You probably can do better.....

sis2 · December 2004

Would it be a good idea to lease then buy at the end? Why, Why not?

nvbanker · December 2004

I have often done just that - it gives me two options that I like;

1: I can see how the car holds up. By lease end, if the car has been reliable and I enjoy the car, still like it and am confident in it, I may buy it out of the lease if;

2: The residual at lease end turns out to be fair with the market value at lease end. But if the residual on the car is more than the market value of the car turns out to be at lease end, then I'll let the financer take the hit and buy or lease another car. Three years ago when I leased it, they guessed on the residual value, gas prices and the economy and the performance of the car can change things over 3 years. Sometimes that residual can turn out to be a steal, sometimes it can be a rip off, and sometimes it can be a good guess.

I consider all of these factors at lease end, and make my decision.

mcbubba1 · January 2005

I'm looking at a 91 LS400 with 160K miles. The interior and exterior look very nice and well cared for. Are there any mechanical or electrical issues with this model? Should I be concerned about any upcoming major services?

This is a private sell and the asking price is $5,900. KBB suggests $5,500. Is this a fair price?

nvbanker · January 2005

See if the air suspension has been replaced at any or all 4 corners of the car yet, if so how long ago. These will go out, and they're very expensive to fix.

garyh1 · January 2005

Happy New Year to everyone!

When I went in to my Lexus dealer to pick up my permanent license plates last Tuesday (yes it took about 55 days to get them here in Maryland), I spoke with my salesman, and he told me they were doing aggressive deals on their remaining inventory through this weekend. Combining that with the "December to Remember" factory financing/leasing specials that end tomorrow, this should have been a great time to buy a new LS.

Did any readers of this forum take advantage of the end of month/year to get a deal? Post the details and let the rest of us vicariously experience the joy of buying a new LS.

cpagem · January 2005

?Good Deal

48month lease, 15K/yr

Cap Cost $61300

MSRP $67489

Custom Luxury Selection with additional options: includes Mark Levinson® 11-speaker 240-watt Premium Audio System, Lexus voice-activated DVD Navigation System with backup camera and Bluetooth® technology, Perforated leather seating surfaces, Dynamic Laser Cruise Control, Laminated side glass, Intuitive Parking Assist, Front climate-control seats with heat/cool knobs, Headlamp washers, Power door closers and Rear-seat heaters.

Additional Options:



  - Interior Upgrade Package with perforated semi-aniline leather trim

  - 18-inch all-season tires with Lexus Chrome Wheels

  - SmartAccess

  - Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo net, Trunk mat and Wheel locks)



Lease rate/month: $742.00 plus tax

Lease rate based upon 2K equity applied as part of a trade in.

garyh1 · January 2005

I'm having a problem getting the MSRP of the car you describe coming out as high as you show it. If you build the car on Lexus' own web site, the MSRP comes out as $65,789:

Custom Luxury Selection with Additional Options

Base MSRP* $55,675.00

Delivery, Processing & Handling Fee $650.00

Available Packages $9,464.00

Accessory Options $0.00

Total MSRP** $65,789.00

The best deals have been running 10-11% off of list. So even if the MSRP you were quoted is not inflated by $1,700, you should be able to negotiate at least another $1,000 off the cap cost. And if the list price is really $65,789, then a good deal would be buying it for about $58,700.

I don't know what they are using for residual value on a 48 mo lease, but using figures provided for 12k/36 mo (56%), and assuming the "$2K equity" you mentioned makes the net cap cost $59,300, using the "December to Remember" special lease rates, you could pay only $758/mo. If the Net Cap Cost is figured as $56,700, the 12k/36 lease payment would be $681. So $742 for a 48 mo (although higher 15K mileage) doesn't seem so great even on the financing side. But supposedly the special lease rates ended yesterday (1/3).

You can perhaps get more info on the lease aspects of the deal on the Lease Questions forum (where I got the info on Lexus' special lease factors).

Hope this helps.

sweetv12 · January 2005

white/tan; 6K miles; we are jawing back and forth but looks like we'll settle in the $51K range....thoughts?

michael_mattox · January 2005

It looks like a steal...Hard to believe it is going that low for an ULTRA....

garyh1 · January 2005

If you can confirm the car's pedigree (clean Carfax, service record [if any], an ownership history that makes sense), that sounds like an incredibly good deal on a top-of-the-line model. But my nose is twitching: who sells a less than 1 yr old car with 6K miles that cheaply unless it was a dealer owner's own car-- or it was in an accident.

Curious-- see post #163. He was also looking at an '04 with 6k miles (for $50,000), and it turned out to be the victim of an accident. Deja vu all over again?

damaged45 · January 2005

What is the name of the dealership you dealt with?

I am planning to buy one this weekend.

You can email it to me too

Thanks

George

garyh1 · January 2005

Lexus of Rockville (Maryland). If you want any other info, see my email address in my profile, send me a message and I will be happy to respond. Your email address is not in your profile so I can't email you!

cpagem · January 2005

Thanks for your help

My MSRP is from California, even on the website. I note the price is lower in other markets.

garyh1 · January 2005

#197: "My MSRP is from California, even on the website. I note the price is lower in other markets."

It took me a while, but I finally figured out the difference is that in the East the Custom Luxury Package comes with "polished-finish alloy" wheels, and in the West it comes with "Lexus Chrome" wheels. Boy, $1,700 is a lot of money for a shinier wheel! I would guess that Lexus makes a pretty profit on this off of you folks in California...

To me, it makes it even harder to justify the added value of the Custom package over the Modern package. For the $4,755 difference in California, you get the Laser Cruise Control and a bunch of mostly cosmetic upgrades.

cove148 · January 2005

MSRP pricing will vary by zone. For example, use the Lexus web site and input zip codes for, LA, Dallas and Miami. Add a grand for the smart key in Dallas since the basic car has this feature and LA doesn't require it.

sirdarby · January 2005

Is $13,700 a good price for a 97 Coach? It has heated seats and traction. seems to be in good shape with the records. Has 85K miles.

Is Nakamichi included with the traction control. Ican't tell if this car has it. Also what is auto leveling? was this in the package or something? How can I tell?

Kirstie_H · January 2005

Most members in this discussion are more familiar with purchasing a new vehicle - you might stop by our Real-World Trade-in Values discussion and post the details about this car (including location!) and see if Terry can tell you whether it's a good deal or not.

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

cpagem · January 2005

Thanks again Gary for the good comments and advice.

garyh1 · January 2005

You're very welcome! So don't keep us in suspense, have you made a buying decision, and if so, what? Are you still looking at the Custom package?

kersten · January 2005

I need some advice... I am considering buying a 1992 LS 400 with 235,000 miles on it...Highway miles from LA to bAkersfield for 7 or 8 years...all dealer services, seems tight, no leaks,garaged,no rust or dents, synthetic oil every 3000 to 5000...he wants around $3000, may go less, it needs a service, last major service & timing belt changed 60,000-70,000 miles ago, all power, everything works...kbb trade in value is 3400, 4800pp... any advice, ideas or things to watch for?? Too many miles?? Thanks, Kersten

michael_mattox · January 2005

If you are going to buy a car with that many miles ...A lexus like this one seems ideal..

If you need Breaks and a Timing belt and shocks the service will start to creap up to 2,000 but if that is all it needs ...Sounds great....

roblim · January 2005

common problems:

Power steering pump leak

A/C malfunctions

suspension bushings.

various emissions parts

lcd display radio and ac unreadable

gauges lights burn out

I had a 1991 ls400. sold it at 220,000 miles last year. a very good car but if a part breaks you are looking at a very expensive repair bill. a power steering pump is around 1300. My A/C stopped working at around 160,000. to repair it was bet 1500 and 4000, i didnt bother. if you know an independent mechanic who repairs lexuses you'll save a lot of money. a brake job at the dealership costs around $400, but my local mechanic did it for $200 (same toyota parts). if you plan on doing your servicing at the dealership you will be shocked at how much maintenance can be on a high mileage lexus.

dorothyk · January 2005

I would like to get the opinion of this forum on tire size for the Lexus LS430. More than any other car, this cars reputation was built on its quiet interior and smooth ride. Yet, at least in California, Lexus is shipping most of the LS430 with 18 tires instead of the standard 17. I do not have problem with Lexus offering optional tire sizes but to ship the larger rim size, as standard makes no sense given the significant negative impact on ride quality. We test drove a LS430 this weekend and found the ride and interior noise worse than our Toyota Avalon. not what we expected.

dorothyk · January 2005

What is the opinion on Lexus's Pre-Collision Safety System? According to the salesmen, most people do not purchase this option. He indicated that the system only works if the cruise control in on and is of no use driving around town.

sv7887 · January 2005

Dorothy,

The 18" is likely for performance issues..Remember this is a very fast car..You'll see that the speed limit quickly passes as you drive on the highway..

What tires did the car have? My '05 came with Dunlop SP Sport 5000's which are classified as Ultra High Performance All Season's..Basically this tire is biased towards performance driving. I had a '98 LS with those tires and was not impressed. I personally think the Bridgestone Turanza is a much better tire. The car is on snow tires at the moment so I haven't had a chance to evaluate it yet.

My old '02 LS had some similar performance tire and the ride was noisy and bumpy as you described. Perhaps you can talk the dealer into fitting 17" wheels instead? I'm sure they have plenty of those around.

As for the Pre Collision, I passed on that..I didn't see the point of it as the car already gets the highest crash ratings out there..I've taken a pretty hard impact in my 1992 LS400 without a scratch. These cars are quite solid, so don't feel as if you are compromising your safety should you not choose to buy it.

Hope this helps,

SV

Kirstie_H · January 2005

We have a couple of good discussions about tires, including Tires, tires, tires . Since this discussion is about pricing, I'm going to suggest you head to that topic, or to our regular Lexus LS discussion to talk about the features on the LS430.

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

Sylvia · February 2005

A reporter would like to interview someone who recently bought a large sedan such as a Mercedes E-Class, Lexus LS 430, Mercury Crown Victoria or any large Cadillac or Lincoln.

Please send your daytime contact info to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, February 11, 2005.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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