Subaru Outback: Catastrophic Engine Failure at 70K Miles---Need Advice!

ftdad1 · August 2003

Well here is the last chapter of my story. I just got back from signing the title over to a local junk yard. I looked into all options and found this was the best thing for me to do.

I looked into rebuilt engines but they are few and cost was about the same as having the dealer do it.

I looked into used engines but here were very few that were useable and once again the cost after freight and everything else was about the same as dealer rebuild. I did find out that almost all of the 2.5L engines available as used were listed as having some sort of timing belt damage!!!! Call a junk yard that uses a national parts finder, and check for yourself.

I would have had the dealership do the work if, Subaru would have offered some Good Will to restore my confidence in the quality of the engine, but they choose not to do so. Being true to my word I will never spend one more cent on any Subaru products, including parts. I think their decision was, penny wise, but pound foolish.

The up side to this situation is that, I found one junk yard that was willing to give me way more than I thought I would get for it. With the money I would have put into the rebuild, the money I got from the junk yard and all the buyer incentives out there, I think a new car might be more affordable than I earlier thought. With Subaru out of the running shopping should be a snap.

For anyone interested, the car is at a junk yard in St. Louis. They specialize in modern imports. There are a lot of good parts, heated seats, tow hitch, tires w/only about 10k on them, cargo mat, rear break rotors just resurfaced, engine block heater, hood w/scoop, spare tire never used....etc.

Thanks to those who offered insight.

ateixeira · August 2003

FWIW, noone here has complained about timing belt damage. A few gaskets and wheel bearings, but not timing belts.

Good luck shopping. I'd really suggest picking a very reliable brand and then getting an extended warranty as well. So many things can go wrong with modern cars, even reliable brands are a toss up. Toyota had sludge, Honda has those tranny issues, every make has its share of problems.

Good luck with your next vehicle.

-juice

ksmeklima · September 2003

I have had a cold tapping noise in the engine since about 45,000 mi. Took it to the dealer just before end of warranty period. Came back with a note saying "could not confirm". Car now has 74,000 mi, still hear tapping, especially in winter. Is this noise a precursor to catastrophic failure? I was told unofficially by a dealer service rep that the noise is due to wearing out of a teflon part and implied that the noise is just a tap and not serious. After reading some of the above I can't help but wonder. Thanks for any comment forthcoming.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2003

Well if it was serious you woudn't have made it 30K miles since you noticed the tapping. Sounds like some kind of "valve event". You don't worry about "taps" so much, you worry about "clunks" and "knocks".

If an engine is in serious distress, it disintegrates pretty quickly.

ateixeira · September 2003

My Miata's valves clatter when its cold. For the last 20k miles. Just try not to put a load on the engine until the noise subsides.

-juice

dunkmydonut · September 2003

I had a problem with a dealer somewhat like your Subaru. I kept all my papers, sent in a compaint to the A.G., and filed a case in small claims court. The dealer called me and said that he was upset about being served papers in front of his customers. That alone was worth the twenty bucks I paid to file the case. Anyway, I won the case..only a thousand. The dealer appealed, and the judge said the apeall would take the limit off the award. Now it's up to three thou. I felt great. A week later I got a check from the AG's office. Seems he had so many complaints, they fined him almost thirty thousand. Every one who complained got a check for six hundred. I think you have a good case. Just having a uniformed sheriff serve him the papers at his dealership is worth the twenty bucks.Thank you for posting. i would never buy a car with an interference engine. That timing belt breaks..goodbye engine. I was considering Subaru because living in New England..would be nice to have all wheel drive. I have several neighbors who own them. I will mention this thread to them. I think Subaru will feel the affects of these posts
Good luck

qbrozen · September 2003

Didn't find this discussion till now, but I have a couple of suggestions. The guy with the hole in the block commented that the timing belt wasn't due for another 25K miles. Uh... as far as I know the timing belt on the 2.5 engine is due at 70K, no? So at 77K miles, you were overdue. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

To the other valve problem, can you tell me if the bent valves were all on the side of the engine that didn't have a true head gasket? I think the possibility of coolant leaking into the cylinders on that side is quite possible. Yeah, it would be amazing that it lasted that long without a good seal, but silicone can fail over time quicker than a proper gasket. That's why they make proper gaskets and don't suggest just using silicone.

dcm61 · September 2003

The change interval is 105k miles for all 2.5L's ('96 DOHC to '04 SOHC) per the Subaru Maintenance guide that comes with the Owner's manual.

DaveM

qbrozen · September 2003

yer right. i checked. The 2.2 is at 60K and the 2.5 is at 105. In that case, why did the first poster change their's? Oh well.

gearhead4 · September 2003

dunkmydonut,

Every engine requires some kind of maintenance. Most high compression, overhead cam engines are "interference" engines.
Gates rubber has a list of interference engine applications at http://www.gates.com/downloads/download2_common.cfm?file=31-2020P- CCD.pdf&folder=brochure&CFID=1128154&CFTOKEN=5942664 .
It is a little out of date, but many new vehicles are using the same engines, or upgraded version of the same engines.
Curiously, the Subaru 2.5 boxer engine is not listed as an "interference engine".

Good luck,

gearhead4

Mr_Shiftright · September 2003

There are a few errors on the Gates site, so double check your information before you rely on what they have posted.

dcm61 · September 2003

It's my understanding that the 2.5L DOHC is interferance whereas the 2.5L SOHC is non-interference.

DaveM

minorthreat · September 2003

What does it mean if an engine is interference or non-interference?

ateixeira · September 2003

Interference means if the timing belt breaks your valves could collide with the top of the pistons and cause severe engine damage.

Non-interference means it won't. You'll still stall and need a tow truck, but it'll be much, much cheaper to repair.

Note - the 2.5l calls for an "inspection" at 90k miles. Given the labor involved, I plan to go ahead and change it at 90k.

-juice

dunkmydonut · September 2003

Was not my intention. I hope no one was offended by my post. I think what I was trying to say was, if Saturn can put out an over head cam engine that is chain driven, why not Subaru..or all the other interferance engines. The technology is there. Why should someone sustain a five thousand dollar expense over a broken belt. I'm aware that ohc engines are a newer design, but The valve train isn't the only part of the engine that gets stressed at higher rpm's. The average life of a race engine is one race.
Anyway good luck to all.

alcan · September 2003

Saturn probably isn't a good comparison. When their chain guides chew up (they do regularly), the chain jumps and the mis-timed camshaft drives the exhaust valves into the piston crowns.

dcm61 · September 2003

The EZ30 in the H6 Outbacks has a timing chain. My understanding is that the decision to use a chain versus belt wasn't for durability but to minimize the engine length. IIRC, the H6 motor is less than an inch longer than the H4.

DaveM

Mr_Shiftright · September 2003

Engine length, engine noise, less expensive castings, etc.---there are lots of advantages to using belts. Chains have their faults and their advantages as well. There is no perfect solution.

ateixeira · September 2003

Yep, I was gonna mention noise and reciprocating mass.

-juice

Subaru Outback: Catastrophic Engine Failure at 70K Miles---Need Advice!

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